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DHS2011 - Day 2 - Page 610

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Sadly after all this time with so many tournament threads it still is not clear to many users on this site. There are several types of posts that are not acceptable in tournament threads. Any form of:

Imbalance whine/Player bashing/Caster bashing/Stream complaining

Will result in two day to a week long bans even for first offenses. Please stick to the games at hand and enjoy yourselves with a beautiful event such as this and the free service that comes with it.
See.Blue
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States2673 Posts
June 19 2011 21:07 GMT
#12181
On June 20 2011 06:06 TroubL wrote:
*** SPOILER ALERT ***

so sad that white-ra lost ;(

*** SPOILER ALERT ***


Haha just use the spoiler tag dude
Severedevil
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4839 Posts
June 19 2011 21:07 GMT
#12182
Zerg units are rarely cost-effective if you don't flank the opponent. Protoss blink-cycling (and Force Fields, and Colossi) is far less effective if Zerg doesn't engage ball vs. ball.
My strategy is to fork people.
Daoism
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States84 Posts
June 19 2011 21:07 GMT
#12183
On June 20 2011 06:00 Pipeline wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 20 2011 05:54 cheesemaster wrote:
On June 20 2011 05:42 eot wrote:
I'm not angry that IdrA lost (I was cheering for MC) but does anyone agree that maybe Stalkers should be 3 supply? I just think that if you max out on upgraded Stalkers it's a bit too strong, you get too many of them.

I dont agree at all, stalkers are already much worse then other similair units in most senses, sure really good micro can change that, but there are very few players who can blink micro like mc. Marauders should be 3 supply as well then.... lol protoss armies are already comapritively much smaller than other armies, and yoou want them to be smaller. Also stalkers receive the least benifit from upgrades than other similair tier units, they only get +1 for each upgrade as opposed to 2 for roaches and marauders.

Idra cant just only make roaches and expect to win, there was nothing OP about that final engagement, he lost WAYYY to much at mc's natural (around 40 supply) had more supply in drones and his positioning during that engagement was fairly sub par mc had way more units attacking at once compared to idra whos roaches were scurrying around in the back. If idra went infestor hydra ling he wouldnt have had too much trouble with that army at all. Also no static defenses at all, a few spine crawlers would have gone along way especially when he knows mc has no intention of grabbing a third and is pushing out off of 2 base.

Also that bad rally at the end set him way behind. Unless you can get a huge huge spread with roaches its really not good at all to have that many the front 2 lines can attack and the rest just scurry around because of their range, at a certain point you need to transition to hydras or something else, or lock everything down with infestors so that you can get your roaches up really tight to the front line of stalkkers so more of your roaches can hit.


Im going to say the same thing as I said to the first guy who brought it up. THIS IS A LR-THREAD, even though you may have a calm discussion about balance, it is about balance nonetheless. Discuss it elsewhere!

a calm discussion about balance? maybe in the BW thread but i have never seen a calm balance discussion in ANY SC2 thread.
ironman1478
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2 Posts
June 19 2011 21:07 GMT
#12184
really its the little things that makes idra lose. in g1 he let his corruptors stay too far up front and lost 2/3 to stalkers (he only had 5 to begin with) and when he penetrated his 3rd base, he didnt micro his hydras/roaches and let mc roas them. those hydras/roaches could have definiteyl done much more damage, if not killing the colossus, at least killing the stalkers around it (they were preoccupied with other units). then, in g2, i remember mc had like 5 sentries and a handful of zealots after the dt shrine finished, compared to at least 6/7 roaches and about 20 lings. if he brought in the overseer, he could have done a lot of damage right there, bc there was only one dt being warped in. its was fun to watch though and that blink micro is always so crazy to watch
XiGua
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Sweden3085 Posts
June 19 2011 21:07 GMT
#12185
On June 20 2011 06:06 TroubL wrote:
*** SPOILER ALERT ***

so sad that white-ra lost ;(

*** SPOILER ALERT ***

Or you can just do it like this:
+ Show Spoiler +
so sad that white-ra lost ;(
ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) APM, Why u make me spam?
DrivE
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States2554 Posts
June 19 2011 21:07 GMT
#12186
On June 20 2011 06:06 TroubL wrote:
*** SPOILER ALERT ***

so sad that white-ra lost ;(

*** SPOILER ALERT ***

you do not need spoiler alerts in the lr thread
LUCK IS NO EXCUSE
drox22
Profile Joined April 2011
129 Posts
June 19 2011 21:07 GMT
#12187
On June 20 2011 06:02 haxard wrote:
5 Asia, 2 EU, 1 NA in a completely dominated EU tourny

9 Europeans
5 Asians
2 NA

in the ro16

most europeans lost to koreans, NA is still the worst out there together with SEA
Clog
Profile Joined January 2011
United States950 Posts
June 19 2011 21:07 GMT
#12188
On June 20 2011 06:04 Heavenly wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 20 2011 06:01 Clog wrote:
On June 20 2011 05:54 Heavenly wrote:
On June 20 2011 05:48 Clog wrote:
On June 20 2011 05:44 taldarimAltar wrote:
On June 20 2011 05:42 Scribble wrote:
On June 20 2011 05:36 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On June 20 2011 05:35 wei2coolman wrote:
On June 20 2011 05:32 shaman6ix wrote:
go ahaid brainwashed idra minions, whine about balance despite idra playing painfully bad

70 food lead = bad play? oh, wow, idra haters are just as bad as idra lovers.


Massing pure Roach = bad play. I'm sorry that IdrA can't win with one unit.


The problem with this statement is the "Idra can't win with one unit" remark, when that's exactly what MC did. Not saying there is necessarily an imbalance, just pointing out that your statement doesn't make sense.

How does zerg win with a single unit? Blink stalkers can do it but even MC had sentries


All of his sentries died to the burrowed roach attack at MC's front. I'm pretty sure he didn't make a single one after that - just pure stalkers. And an immortal or two (not that he needed it). Roaches just get owned too hard by stalkers, it would be like massing hydras against colossi, or massing zealots against roaches or some stupid situations like that.


Lol this is new. Roaches get owned too hard by stalkers? You mean the unit that costs half that of a stalker but can beat it one on one in equal upgrades, from the race that is able to have a better early and mid-game econ? Blink is the only reason they are good, but let me direct you to the infestor which locks them down and deals damage. Look at game 2 of IdrA and MC at MLG, they were on equal bases, MC constantly denied the gold base, but IdrA steamrolled his blink stalkers when they had infestor support (and no the immortal neural parasite did not do enough damage to make it like 30 roaches surviving). Ever consider the possibility that IdrA just played horribly and MC played like MC?


Hm. I don't see what you're getting at. Are you denying that mass roach loses to mass blink stalker? No shit infestors are good. Idra didn't have any, and he needed to. If not that, then quicker hydras or something. Seems like you think I'm QQing or something.


Mass roach beats mass stalker. Infestor takes away the blink ability, roaches win easily. You compared it to hydralisks versus colossi...which is completely wrong.


I was simply using it as a comparison. And I'm not talking about infestors with the roaches man. I know roach infestor is a great unit comp, and it beats mass blink stalker. That's not what Idra had, that's not what I'm talking about. How is it that hard to understand...
NesTea | LosirA | MVP | CoCa | Nada | Ryung | DRG | YongHwa
DoomsVille
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada4885 Posts
June 19 2011 21:07 GMT
#12189
On June 20 2011 06:06 Tsuki.eu wrote:
only 1 T alive? BOMBER FIGHTING!!!!!!!!!!

Just like MLG where there was only 1 terran in the top 8... and again I think there is a damn good chance that 1 terran wins.

Bomber vs. MC pretty much decides this tournament IMO
cheesemaster
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada1975 Posts
June 19 2011 21:07 GMT
#12190
On June 20 2011 05:54 Heavenly wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 20 2011 05:48 Clog wrote:
On June 20 2011 05:44 taldarimAltar wrote:
On June 20 2011 05:42 Scribble wrote:
On June 20 2011 05:36 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On June 20 2011 05:35 wei2coolman wrote:
On June 20 2011 05:32 shaman6ix wrote:
go ahaid brainwashed idra minions, whine about balance despite idra playing painfully bad

70 food lead = bad play? oh, wow, idra haters are just as bad as idra lovers.


Massing pure Roach = bad play. I'm sorry that IdrA can't win with one unit.


The problem with this statement is the "Idra can't win with one unit" remark, when that's exactly what MC did. Not saying there is necessarily an imbalance, just pointing out that your statement doesn't make sense.

How does zerg win with a single unit? Blink stalkers can do it but even MC had sentries


All of his sentries died to the burrowed roach attack at MC's front. I'm pretty sure he didn't make a single one after that - just pure stalkers. And an immortal or two (not that he needed it). Roaches just get owned too hard by stalkers, it would be like massing hydras against colossi, or massing zealots against roaches or some stupid situations like that.


Lol this is new. Roaches get owned too hard by stalkers? You mean the unit that costs half that of a stalker but can beat it one on one in equal upgrades, from the race that is able to have a better early and mid-game econ? Blink is the only reason they are good, but let me direct you to the infestor which locks them down and deals damage. Look at game 2 of IdrA and MC at MLG, they were on equal bases, MC constantly denied the gold base, but IdrA steamrolled his blink stalkers when they had infestor support (and no the immortal neural parasite did not do enough damage to make it like 30 roaches surviving). Ever consider the possibility that IdrA just played horribly and MC played like MC?

So true, on equal upgrades (after i think attack 1 or 2) roaches beat stalkers 1 on 1, everyone complaining about stalkers should realise this. The only reason they do well is blink. what shuts down blink? oh infestors.... 3 fungals and he would have won / survived that engagement even if he lost 40 supply right before it happened. The problem is that the stalkers keep moving slightly back so the roaches never get close enouggh to have enough of them attacking when they are in large numbers like that. With fungals you can push up your front line right in front of the stalkers and have most of your roaches attacking.

That being said unless you have a really excellent spread (wich idra didnt) its never that great of an idea to have that many roaches, so many of them end out useless and out of range at the back until the front line dies. Its much better to have your back lines supported with hydras (idra had a few but he transitioned way too late) that way all your units can be attacking in an engagement.

I think pure hydra with ling corrupter would have done better anyways, idra had already invested alot into roaches though, tunneling claws is much better for when a player is going for a 6 gate or you have a way to snipe their obs (neither of wich were happening) mc got off so many free shots as idra was trying to go through the forcefields he would have been alot better off if he had fallen back with burrow instead of trying to push forward until he had baited out all the forcefields.
Slayers_MMA The terran who beats terrans
Wren
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States745 Posts
June 19 2011 21:07 GMT
#12191
On June 20 2011 05:54 Heavenly wrote:
Roaches get owned too hard by stalkers? You mean the unit that costs half that of a stalker but can beat it one on one in equal upgrades

It's worth noting that this is completely wrong. 1 stalker kills 1 roach, even if it doesn't fire until it moves into roach range and there's no micro.
We're here! We're queer! We don't want any more bears!
Vadrigar
Profile Joined January 2011
Bulgaria2379 Posts
June 19 2011 21:07 GMT
#12192
Did anyone see (P)White-Ra's second game? It was a base trade scenario and he lost by having all his buildings destroyed while his 100+ supply army was still alive and he had probes + 900minerals. Why didn't you build a building (P)White-Ra? Whyyyyyyyyyyyyy?
r4pture
Profile Joined May 2011
United States397 Posts
June 19 2011 21:08 GMT
#12193
Topped out at 87,000+ veiwers. Great to see eSports growing.
http://teamfortress.tv - For your TF2 streaming and discussion needs!
MrDudeMan
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada973 Posts
June 19 2011 21:08 GMT
#12194
On June 20 2011 06:01 Gackt_ wrote:
I kinda lost my respect for IdrA..I've been a fan for a long long long time..but when he disappoints his fans that have waited hours for his games and leaves that easy as he did in game 2 vs MC..that just upsets me.

He screwed it up bigtime for sure with his transition into the game but still.. not microing his units good enough and leaving when he actually got a semi-good chance to get back into the game..that just makes the fans upset.
I dunno if he is scared about humiliation but when he leaves as he does in his games he makes people think he is a quitter. And thats worse..Anyways he is a very talented player..but he seriously made alot of fans wait for practically nothing at all. NesTea would never leave in such a state of the game at least.

I always said SEn is the best non KR Zerg there is and it wouldnt suprise me if I see him winning the whole shit now..I hope he beats July next.


What are you talking about? It was pretty obvious idra was going to lose game 2. There was a huge amount of blink stalkers and immortals against idras roaches and few hydras without range. He played a good game, but MC had a great build with a great transition and great control. Also I think you forget MC 2-0'ed sen as well.
epik16
Profile Joined June 2011
United States43 Posts
June 19 2011 21:08 GMT
#12195
Are there VoDs? I want to see Moon vs Ra.
DrivE
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States2554 Posts
June 19 2011 21:08 GMT
#12196
On June 20 2011 06:08 r4pture wrote:
Topped out at 87,000+ veiwers. Great to see eSports growing.

87K on Day 9's stream alone
LUCK IS NO EXCUSE
nvrs
Profile Joined October 2010
Greece481 Posts
June 19 2011 21:08 GMT
#12197
I still can't believe there are so many ppl claiming this unit or that ability or imbalanced! The game seem balanced pretty good and the best players are winning in great back and forth matches proving wrong all those whiners that screamed "imbalance", "no skill game based on luck" and "boring one basing-big fight".
And we steel have 2 expansions to wait for...
thefreed
Profile Joined January 2011
United States222 Posts
June 19 2011 21:08 GMT
#12198
On June 20 2011 06:03 mordk wrote:
Koreans dominating again. How do they fare in series now? Like.. 15-1??

Not too surprising though. Perhaps the only surprise for me was moon 2-0'ing White-Ra. I mean, White-Ra is an amazing player, I thought he would be capable of beating moon, who's not that impressive.

That said, I think that while moon isn't that good at SC2, he's got sort of a "champion's heart", he always seems to pull off some ridiculous unheard of skill when playing in LANs, that's why I never count him out. His WC3 stage experience has made him a tremendous competitor.

Lol you call White ra amazing and call Moon not that impressive when he just 2-0d white ra? I mean that's pretty biased.
... You have to be good at sc2 to perform in a stage like this... I mean his gotten so far in most of the foreign tournaments his been in.
My country is the world, My religion is to do good. -T.P The fool doth thinks his a wise man, but the wise man knows he is a fool. -W.S
Arcanne
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1519 Posts
June 19 2011 21:08 GMT
#12199
MC vs Bomber too early..
Professional tech investor, part time DotA scrub | Follow @AllMeasures on Twitter
NexUmbra
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Scotland3776 Posts
June 19 2011 21:08 GMT
#12200
On June 20 2011 06:05 Vimsey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 20 2011 06:01 NexUmbra wrote:
On June 20 2011 05:55 FinnGamer wrote:
On June 20 2011 05:52 nvs. wrote:

When u see the same players winning again and again, yes.


well then some people better step da fuck up and challenge them. ^^

Remind for example just won his 42nd zotac cup and it's still fun to watch. Some day some one will beat the person up top and it will be even more interesting


Damn WC3 Remind? I didn't know he played SC2

He doesnt theres a zotac cup in WC3


Ahhh right, not familiar with WC3 scene I just watched WCG Grubby vs Remind :p
Life has won two GSLs and a Blizzard Cup. NOT three GSLs.
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