EPT[NASL] Day 9-3 - Page 25
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Sweden148 Posts
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Batch
Sweden692 Posts
On June 12 2011 03:26 Zihn wrote: I cant watch the EU NASL.tv stream here in Denmark without getting so mutch lag that it's unwatchable. But!!!! if i connect to my NA VPN and try to watch the same EU NASL.tv stream i can now watch it without lag at all and this is how i have been watching NASL... I realy would like to know why the EU stream for NASL is only for americans ??? Also i get a ton of comercials on the stream when i use the NA VPN and no comercials if i just connect with my danish connection. I get no a lag at all on any of the streams (EU or US) from Sweden. The problem is probably on your side or with your ISP. | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On June 11 2011 18:23 Xeris wrote: What kind of sports casters say "ya this guy is a fucking clown and played like garbage"... First of all, nobody in this league is a terrible / bad player. Secondly, nobody who wasn't a pro is in a position to tell a pro player that they played badly. You think they played badly, do it better yourself. Thirdly, the job of a broadcaster is to analyze and hype. Anyone who says "NASL casters don't criticize the players" has never listened to the NASL. Does the term Artosis pylon ring a bell? That reason that term came into being was because iNcontroL/Gretorp trolled Artosis for stupidly powering all his production with one pylon. Instead of saying "PLayer X played fucking shitty," we say things like "if he had done X Y and Z, he might have been in a better position," or, "Player X won the decisive battle because his concave was vastly superior to Player Y." This way we're not disparaging any of our players. Do you think anyone would take our league seriously if the casters talked about how bad the players are playing all the time? That's just fucking dumb. I think you're mischaracterizing my response, and think that somehow I'm criticizing Gretorp for not being 'critical enough', when I haven't suggested anything along those lines. In fact, I stated that Gretorp and InControl are both more than capable of doing this. We're not in disagreement at all. I was responding to Gretorp suggestion that while being critical of players during a cast is important, maintaining relationships is more important. This was my attempt at being diplomatic and suggesting it's important to do both. Did I suggest that a sportscaster say, "ya this guy is a fucking clown and played like garbage"? NO. That is 100% some bullshit that you imagined I said. But fuck it, I'll bite. In a collegial atmosphere, where the participants are mature, likeable and sociable human beings, someone like InControl or Gretorp should be able to say, "Man, Tyler is playing pretty bad right now." In fact, they should even be able to be cavalier about it, and say, "Wow, this absolutely the worst army control I've seen this week." T his kind of criticism should be able to happen without Tyler, the NASL staff, or the fans suddenly freaking out and saying, "Holy shit, InControl thinks Tyler sucks at Starcraft!" There's a big difference between having a bad game and being a bad player. Honestly though, considering how you yourself Xeris chose to overreact to my post, I don't know if that's ever going to happen in this hype-sensitive community. I suggest you re-read what I originally wrote, without being so defensive. It's quite obvious it was complete innocuous, and actually an attempt to be supportive and nice. | ||
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d(O.o)a
Canada5066 Posts
Also, there is no reason to say things like that, it adds nothing to the cast and only makes the player feel worse. As far as I'm concerned there shouldn't even be a discussion over this, it's just a stupid idea for casters to insult players by calling them bad or saying "Wow, this is absolutely the worst army control I've seen this week." T That adds absolutely nothing to the cast. | ||
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pHelix Equilibria
United States1134 Posts
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On June 12 2011 04:27 d(O.o)a wrote: Why am I not surprised to see somebody named defacer saying casters should call players bad? Also, there is no reason to say things like that, it adds nothing to the cast and only makes the player feel worse. As far as I'm concerned there shouldn't even be a discussion over this, it's just a stupid idea for casters to insult players by calling them bad or saying "Wow, this is absolutely the worst army control I've seen this week." T That adds absolutely nothing to the cast. I'll repeat, for the third time, just because you're calling out someone for making a bad decision doesn't mean you think they're a bad player or bad person. | ||
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d(O.o)a
Canada5066 Posts
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
On June 12 2011 04:27 d(O.o)a wrote: Also, there is no reason to say things like that, it adds nothing to the cast and only makes the player feel worse. As far as I'm concerned there shouldn't even be a discussion over this, it's just a stupid idea for casters to insult players by calling them bad or saying "Wow, this is absolutely the worst army control I've seen this week." T Whereas I think (to paraphrase you directly) that the most stupid idea ever invented is "we should not say some things so we can avoid offending someone". Honesty is the best policy and I think that this is one very good think about this cast, they are not afraid to say, that someone has played poorly (I can even live without iNc sugarcoating it with all teh stuff about "he will be better"). Haypro has obviously shown some pretty important mistakes and his play obviously inferior to Naniwas. There is no need to deny that. They are not bashing him, they are not being annoying, they just comment on his play. | ||
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Zihn
Denmark50 Posts
On June 12 2011 04:13 Batch wrote: I get no a lag at all on any of the streams (EU or US) from Sweden. The problem is probably on your side or with your ISP. I would agree if not for the VPN. The VPN still uses my regular internet 20 mbit but bounces the trafic across a server in USA to give me an NA IP, if the problem was with my internet then i should have even more problems bouncing trafic from an EU server to USA and then back to EU (Denmark) compared to just having it go straight from the EU server to Denmark. | ||
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d(O.o)a
Canada5066 Posts
On June 12 2011 04:44 opisska wrote: Whereas I think (to paraphrase you directly) that the most stupid idea ever invented is "we should not say some things so we can avoid offending someone". Honesty is the best policy and I think that this is one very good think about this cast, they are not afraid to say, that someone has played poorly (I can even live without iNc sugarcoating it with all teh stuff about "he will be better"). Haypro has obviously shown some pretty important mistakes and his play obviously inferior to Naniwas. There is no need to deny that. They are not bashing him, they are not being annoying, they just comment on his play. Saying somebody played worse than their opponent is different from saying they played bad, saying they played bad adds absolutely nothing to the commentary and there's no point saying it. I would much rather they take that time to explain the faults they made than say something along the lines of "Well, that was awful what is player X doing right now? He's playing bad." | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
It's amazing what you can do in TvT on Taldarim, with all the cliffs. | ||
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pHelix Equilibria
United States1134 Posts
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Batch
Sweden692 Posts
On June 12 2011 04:52 Zihn wrote: I would agree if not for the VPN. The VPN still uses my regular internet 20 mbit but bounces the trafic across a server in USA to give me an NA IP, if the problem was with my internet then i should have even more problems bouncing trafic from an EU server to USA and then back to EU (Denmark) compared to just having it go straight from the EU server to Denmark. The problem lies with your ISP. The traffic exchange between your ISP and the part of Europe where the server is located is not good enough. | ||
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1652 Posts
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Bluedraqy
Denmark496 Posts
On June 12 2011 05:40 StarscreamG1 wrote: Someone can tell me if Select is american or korean? A korean living in the USA | ||
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Duravi
United States1205 Posts
Saying somebody played worse than their opponent is different from saying they played bad, saying they played bad adds absolutely nothing to the commentary and there's no point saying it. I would much rather they take that time to explain the faults they made than say something along the lines of "Well, that was awful what is player X doing right now? He's playing bad." Have you watched TheBest vs. MKP? Or even some of tastosis earlier Code A commentary? Obviously it adds something to the cast because the majority of people up vote those casts despite poor game play. Saying it adds nothing is just your opinion, and most people seem to disagree with you. | ||
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d(O.o)a
Canada5066 Posts
It's unprofessional and when I personally hear commentators bashing the players without adding anything else to the cast I turn off the sound. Artosis and Tasteless vods will get "up votes" and tons of views regardless of what they do because it's Artosis and Tasteless, they could spend the whole time making completely irrelevant horrible jokes and people would still watch it. | ||
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howLiN
Portugal1676 Posts
On June 12 2011 07:04 d(O.o)a wrote: Ok so maybe some people find it funny that they're calling somebody who's infinitely better than they are bad, but it is just wasted time, we gain absolutely nothing from Gretorp or Incontrol saying "Well, that was awful, player Y is so bad." whereas if they say something like "Well, that engagement wasn't good by player Y; he would've been way better off hanging around for more reinforcements." or whatever it may be. It's unprofessional and when I personally hear commentators bashing the players without adding anything else to the cast I turn off the sound. Artosis and Tasteless vods will get "up votes" and tons of views regardless of what they do because it's Artosis and Tasteless, they could spend the whole time making completely irrelevant horrible jokes and people would still watch it. I get what you're saying, but given that casting is kind of a spontaneous activity I don't think casters shouldn't say "player X is playing bad" on principle. Sometimes people do play badly, and there is no shame (to both the casters and the players) to call on it. There's a difference between stating that a player is playing badly and bashing a player in a disproportionate manner, and the former is fine as far as I'm concerned. | ||
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DoomsVille
Canada4885 Posts
A casters job is to do a few things: 1) Entertain their audience (humor, awesome sounding voice, enthusiasm etc.) 2) Explain what is occurring to the audience (play by play) 3) Critically analyze events (different builds/strategies, explanation of engagements etc. etc.) You can't do 3) unless you are willing to be candid about the players strengths and weaknesses. If a player lost because they macroed poorly, you have to say it. If a player lost because he engaged poorly, you have to say it. Whatever the problem is, you have to mention it. But you can't just say "both players are fantastic and they played fantastic and everything is fantastic" without acknowledging their mistakes/weaknesses. And this isn't the same as Xeris' absolutely ludicrous statement of "ya this guy is a fucking clown and played like garbage". No one said anything remotely similar to that. Instead this could be as simple as something like: Player X lost this game because he had a bad engagement. There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying something like that. It is an honest appraisal of the situation and that is exactly what is necessary when critically analyzing a game. It's the same thing as when an NBA commentator will say something like "Lebron is forcing too many shots instead of trying to find open teammates" or "his shot is just off today" or whatever. You have to be willing to criticize the players while still being respectful. That is all people want. We just don't want to be constantly told that everyone is playing amazingly when it is obvious that that isn't true in many cases. Btw, I'm not saying gretorp or incontrol are doing that. I'm just saying this is how it should be. I'm not sure what sparked this debate (I didn't watch all of last night) and I don't care. I'm just giving my opinion on the matter. | ||
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Duravi
United States1205 Posts
Btw, I'm not saying gretorp or incontrol are doing that. I'm just saying this is how it should be. I'm not sure what sparked this debate (I didn't watch all of last night) and I don't care. I'm just giving my opinion on the matter. I think this debate occurred specifically because there were some very poor games on NASL today from a gameplay standpoint, and if you contrast those to how the poor games on GSL were handled earlier on in the day there is a huge difference between how the casters handled the games. Most viewers seem to prefer Tastosis style of handling poor gameplay, gretorp/xeris/doa disagree. Gretorp made an excellent point that they have to deal with these players in social situations where Tastosis don't. Aside from that point I don't agree with most of the other ones xeris and doa are making, especially the laughably foolish "you can't criticize someone unless you are better than them" argument. | ||
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