On June 11 2011 10:04 urashimakt wrote: Did they say it was a makeup match? I unmuted the stream when the match started. -_-
As far as I can tell they said get ready for NaDa vs Axslav and then this happened
And then what happened?
Someone plz explain why Haypro and DDE are playing I was expecting some Protoss action to get me worked up for my idol Naniwa! And I hope to god they won't force me to stay up for 2 hours then announce that the Naniwa-game is cancelled Like they did 3 times already...
On June 11 2011 10:06 Scrandom wrote: Can't complain about that much NaDa. But I do hope he wins to strengthen his chances of qualifying for that playoff bracket.
Who is the co caster?
Xervis? I think is his name, I have no idea how to spell it XD
On June 11 2011 10:06 Scrandom wrote: Can't complain about that much NaDa. But I do hope he wins to strengthen his chances of qualifying for that playoff bracket.
Who is the co caster?
Xervis? I think is his name, I have no idea how to spell it XD
Xeris .. Aka Duran--> the Fnatic team manager i think and works for the NASL; he is involved in a lot of things hehe
After watching Tastosis blunt honesty about the terrible MKP vs TheBest series this morning it is humorous seeing these casters not call out these players aside from a minor note from Xeris about floating alot of money. I think most people prefer the honesty route.
DDE won via walkover for some reason. But I guess now they are actually playing instead of walkover? And the site does spoiler the result in the player histories.
On June 11 2011 10:06 Scrandom wrote: Can't complain about that much NaDa. But I do hope he wins to strengthen his chances of qualifying for that playoff bracket.
Who is the co caster?
Xervis? I think is his name, I have no idea how to spell it XD
Xeris .. Aka Duran--> the Fnatic team manager i think and works for the NASL; he is involved in a lot of things hehe
Yeah, I knew who he is, just flaked on the spelling of the name.
On June 11 2011 10:21 Probe1 wrote: Oh. That explains it, thank you.
The stream isn't lagging ...... Did you really just write Yurop instead of Europe. That is amazing.
Wait, did someone just purposely misspell something for the sake of humor, ON MY INTERNETS?! Anyways, thanks for the info. The stream seems to be back to being somewhat normal.
On June 11 2011 10:25 travis wrote: Hilariously lucky timing from Haypro.
dde seemed to be playing really bad =/
In his matches against IdrA, he was building sensor towers all over so he couldn't get caught out of position like that, built multiple bunkers while slow pushing with mech... etc
dde knew haypro was going all-in game 1 and only re-built 1 bunker, and game 2 he lost 8 blue flame hellions while doing 0 damage... when all he had to do was send 1 hellion up at a time to absorb 3 banelings..
On June 11 2011 10:27 Cops wrote: The casters keep getting the names wrong and miscalling stuff.
Haypro banks a load of mins/gas for mutas and they say it is bad macro??? It was in fact very well timed.
Exactly. Saw that coming as he did it, he even had the overlords in production in anticipation of the Muta pump. It is ok to miss stuff, but why should the casters say they are doing bad if they aren't sure?
On June 11 2011 10:27 Cops wrote: The casters keep getting the names wrong and miscalling stuff.
Haypro banks a load of mins/gas for mutas and they say it is bad macro??? It was in fact very well timed.
That was at one point. Haypro's macro is pretty horrible. I'm not a big fan of his at all. He often floats like 700-1k on 2 base somehow in the beginning.
It really annoys me when casters talk about stuff completely irrelevant to a victory though. Someone making a fifth hatchery at a location doesn't mean that they have "5 bases". He won only because of the lucky timing when dde was moving out, it had nothing to do with him sitting back and letting Haypro macro because dde macro'd better than him. But the casters will go on and on about some other supposed reason someone won when it was actually pretty irrelevant.
Watching axslav sit around passively with his big ball of stalker sentry colossus while nada tries to actually harass reminds me how boring SC2 can be to watch sometimes.
On June 11 2011 10:44 Probe1 wrote: Nadas just fucking around... and he loses? What kind of comment is that. A mind game where you let your opp win?
The game doesnt matter at all for him. He cant get top 2 and hes clinched a playoff spot. Most koreans mess around when there isnt money on the line
Someone always has an excuse ready when a foreigner beats a korean. Maybe you're right, maybe he is just "messing around" but its frustrating to hear nonetheless. Can we not give Axslav some credit?
On June 11 2011 10:44 Probe1 wrote: Nadas just fucking around... and he loses? What kind of comment is that. A mind game where you let your opp win?
The game doesnt matter at all for him. He cant get top 2 and hes clinched a playoff spot. Most koreans mess around when there isnt money on the line
Someone always has an excuse ready when a foreigner beats a korean. Maybe you're right, maybe he is just "messing around" but its frustrating to hear nonetheless. Can we not give Axslav some credit?
On June 11 2011 10:44 Probe1 wrote: Nadas just fucking around... and he loses? What kind of comment is that. A mind game where you let your opp win?
The game doesnt matter at all for him. He cant get top 2 and hes clinched a playoff spot. Most koreans mess around when there isnt money on the line
Someone always has an excuse ready when a foreigner beats a korean. Maybe you're right, maybe he is just "messing around" but its frustrating to hear nonetheless. Can we not give Axslav some credit?
No because it looks like he is about to lose. ^^
Yes you can. He took a game off Nada and that puts it at 1-1. People don't purposely lose unless it is a July Zerg situation like MLG where he needs rest.
On June 11 2011 11:15 getpicture wrote: when akslav died he had 1.8k mienrals and 1.6k gas while nada had under 200 mins/gas all the time.
should akslav be a progamer? should he be banned? his low apm poor macro and cheesy play. sigh really. tall poppy syndrome in evil geniuses.
I can understand if you do not like axslave or think he is not a good player, but why or what should he be banned from? i honestly do not understand what you are saying. If not being the best starcraft2 player is a cause to be banned, then i guess tl would have to ban 99% of its population including myself.
On June 11 2011 11:15 getpicture wrote: when akslav died he had 1.8k mienrals and 1.6k gas while nada had under 200 mins/gas all the time.
should akslav be a progamer? should he be banned? his low apm poor macro and cheesy play. sigh really. tall poppy syndrome in evil geniuses.
I can understand if you do not like axslave or think he is not a good player, but why or what should he be banned from? i honestly do not understand what you are saying. If not being the best starcraft2 player is a cause to be banned, then i guess tl would have to ban 99% of its population including myself.
He's either just trolling or an idiot. Maybe both.
Tall poppy syndrome is where someone who excels at something is resented by the majority for being better than they are. He did not use it correctly, in fact he meant just about the opposite.
On June 11 2011 11:15 getpicture wrote: when akslav died he had 1.8k mienrals and 1.6k gas while nada had under 200 mins/gas all the time.
should akslav be a progamer? should he be banned? his low apm poor macro and cheesy play. sigh really. tall poppy syndrome in evil geniuses.
... why must there always be a person like you in every thread?
He was kinda getting his base destroyed at that time, his warpgates got destroyed along with all the units that were trying to warp in.
I feel like I got trolled -.-'
Anyway if you don't care about the game, don't show how bad you can be when you come with a weird build order, just straight up cheese in order to don't bore the spectatores too long.
On June 11 2011 11:15 getpicture wrote: when akslav died he had 1.8k mienrals and 1.6k gas while nada had under 200 mins/gas all the time.
should akslav be a progamer? should he be banned? his low apm poor macro and cheesy play. sigh really. tall poppy syndrome in evil geniuses.
I can understand if you do not like axslave or think he is not a good player, but why or what should he be banned from? i honestly do not understand what you are saying. If not being the best starcraft2 player is a cause to be banned, then i guess tl would have to ban 99% of its population including myself.
He's either just trolling or an idiot. Maybe both.
Honestly i have to assume he is being an idiot.
On Game, strelok is doing very bad work on slushes economy with hellions. Slush FINALLY cleans it up but lost a lot of harvesters and a lot of wasted mining time.
Tall poppy syndrome is where someone who excels at something is resented by the majority for being better than they are. He did not use it correctly, in fact he meant just about the opposite.
On June 11 2011 11:32 a176 wrote: why was catz in that game?
It's just the observer/official using a borrowed account (incontrol explained that I don't remember where) They don't allow any non nasl staff obsing the game (rightfully so)
On June 11 2011 11:36 CosmicSpiral wrote: See, Gretorp actually made a very good point about MMA's style. He's got it people.
What did he say ? I went to grab a coffee Anyway, no surprise that the games aren't very good today, this division is already done, no stakes in any game left.
The 2 port banshee is very powerful, non in itself but because as soon as the banshees are deflected the zerg always starts teching+droning and the next T push is devastating. Even idra get surprised, saw him die a couple times to this on his stream, and he never lose to ladder terrans usually.
On June 11 2011 11:36 CosmicSpiral wrote: See, Gretorp actually made a very good point about MMA's style. He's got it people.
What did he say ? I went to grab a coffee Anyway, no surprise that the games aren't very good today, this division is already done, no stakes in any game left.
- Since MMA constantly does drops as opposed as hitting a timing, he forces mutalisks to patrol for drops instead of attacking the mineral lines (hence why he skimps on turrets). - The opponent will usually make banelings as a response, limiting gas that could have gone to infestors or more mutas. - His drops are always combined with some other offensive action, forcing his opponents to multitask and make mistakes. e.g. Losira almost always deflected direct attacks against his army, but lost his tech to the drops.
On June 11 2011 11:43 MrCon wrote: The 2 port banshee is very powerful, non in itself but because as soon as the banshees are deflected the zerg always starts teching+droning and the next T push is devastating. Even idra get surprised, saw him die a couple times to this on his stream, and he never lose to ladder terrans usually.
Seems that it's hard to check if there is a CC building when you've 5 mutas in the base of your opponent :o
On June 11 2011 11:45 Cayn wrote: brutal build zerg has to invest a sack into short range static anti-air and no mattter if he holds or not the after push kills almost all time :/
in fact slush reacted perfectly until he teched to muta. Just make queens and spores, make a macro hatch, pump lingblings and run over the enemy base. It's counter intuitive, that's why the 2 portshee usually works (and because it's rarely used anymore so zergs aren't used to it like they were 10 months ago)
On June 11 2011 11:36 CosmicSpiral wrote: See, Gretorp actually made a very good point about MMA's style. He's got it people.
What did he say ? I went to grab a coffee Anyway, no surprise that the games aren't very good today, this division is already done, no stakes in any game left.
- Since MMA constantly does drops as opposed as hitting a timing, he forces mutalisks to patrol for drops instead of attacking the mineral lines (hence why he skimps on turrets). - The opponent will usually make banelings as a response, limiting gas that could have gone to infestors or more mutas. - His drops are always combined with some other offensive action, forcing his opponents to multitask and make mistakes. e.g. Losira almost always deflected direct attacks against his army, but lost his tech to the drops.
On June 11 2011 11:58 1Eris1 wrote: lol slush. honestly, i'm always in shock when this guy gets top 8 every mlg. does he just baneling bust his way there or?
Hes actually pretty good, but he lost 2-1 to strelok, do you realize? He lost to someone who is first in his division, how shocking...cmon, dont be an idiot.
On June 11 2011 12:02 AndAgain wrote: What's "gagging"?
Edit: In the sense of what Strelok means.
I think it had something to do with the style he said he was using, where if he doesn't know what his next move will be then his opponent cannot know either...
In all divisions, almost all top 2 players(except select) currently are living outside of USA. Is NASL covering expense for them to fly over to Ontario, Ca? it'll cost them alot of money.
On June 11 2011 12:06 Xkalibert wrote: In all divisions, almost all top 2 players(except select) currently are living outside of USA. Is NASL covering expense for them to fly over to Ontario, Ca? it'll cost them alot of money.
On June 11 2011 12:00 ComusLoM wrote: Really interesting series, love the mech play and it always seems so damn strong when it wins.
What I dislike with mech it's that it's almost a one bullet gun. You cannot remax at the same rate as the zerg.
That's of course very true, but it's also incredibly easy to turtle with mech.
Hmm, if you see what's actually going with mech, Terran don't turtle too much and generally want to attack before/during hive. When Ghost/Mech will be fine, imo we could see turtle mech, cause you don't fear broodlords and you're cost effective.
On June 11 2011 12:06 Xkalibert wrote: In all divisions, almost all top 2 players(except select) currently are living outside of USA. Is NASL covering expense for them to fly over to Ontario, Ca? it'll cost them alot of money.
I believe they recieve a $500 travel stipend, covering some of it
On June 11 2011 11:58 1Eris1 wrote: lol slush. honestly, i'm always in shock when this guy gets top 8 every mlg. does he just baneling bust his way there or?
Hes actually pretty good, but he lost 2-1 to strelok, do you realize? He lost to someone who is first in his division, how shocking...cmon, dont be an idiot.
Watch his games dude. He won because strelok fucked up and let lings kill 20 of his scvs, and then got destroyed in the other two
On June 11 2011 11:58 1Eris1 wrote: lol slush. honestly, i'm always in shock when this guy gets top 8 every mlg. does he just baneling bust his way there or?
Hes actually pretty good, but he lost 2-1 to strelok, do you realize? He lost to someone who is first in his division, how shocking...cmon, dont be an idiot.
Watch his games dude. He won because strelok fucked up and let lings kill 20 of his scvs, and then got destroyed in the other two
Gretorp doesn't like poop guys!! LOL i love these guys so fucking funny. They seriously make watching this for hours totally worth it.. and the sc2 helps.
Haypro has nice ideas, but has terrible macro, execution and multitasking. He went into Nani's base multiple times with a lot of minerals in bank. Why didn't he make enough zerglings? He would have easily won this. July would have won.
Wow, in fact he had a macro hatch. Perhaps the fact he brought 2 queens with his push made he only had 2 queens on 4 hatches at home ? That would explain his unspent resource explosion.
Haypro playing awfully. Throwing away hydras after hydras to give Nani a 50 supply lead? What did he really accomplish? Then running down the choke for no good reason at all when he could've formed an alright concave on top of his ramp. Really really disappointing.
The key to doing Losira's nydus bust is unit control. Losira got so much value out of his hydras simply because he always made sure he had the superior positioning and microed the hurt ones away. Haypro, on the other hand, acted like he was donating gifts to the Salvation Army. You can't afford to throw away hydras on 2 base without doing damage to the infrastructure.
On June 11 2011 12:23 j0k3r wrote: Haypro playing awfully. Throwing away hydras after hydras to give Nani a 50 supply lead? What did he really accomplish? Then running down the choke for no good reason at all when he could've formed an alright concave on top of his ramp. Really really disappointing.
I don't see how forming a concave would have helped against 9 range colloxen. If he doesn't run down his ramp they sit back and fry everything while his short ranged units just watch.
EDIT: Not trying to make a balance whine and say that Haypro should have won that, but sitting back and defending the ramp when your opponent has twice as much range as you and air unit-esque vision rarely works.
On June 11 2011 12:23 Xxavi wrote: Haypro has nice ideas, but has terrible macro, execution and multitasking. He went into Nani's base multiple times with a lot of minerals in bank. Why didn't he make enough zerglings? He would have easily won this. July would have won.
On June 11 2011 11:58 1Eris1 wrote: lol slush. honestly, i'm always in shock when this guy gets top 8 every mlg. does he just baneling bust his way there or?
Hes actually pretty good, but he lost 2-1 to strelok, do you realize? He lost to someone who is first in his division, how shocking...cmon, dont be an idiot.
Watch his games dude. He won because strelok fucked up and let lings kill 20 of his scvs, and then got destroyed in the other two
Did you watch MLG?
Thats what I'm asking, why does he do good in MLG if he plays this bad outside of it?
On June 11 2011 11:58 1Eris1 wrote: lol slush. honestly, i'm always in shock when this guy gets top 8 every mlg. does he just baneling bust his way there or?
Hes actually pretty good, but he lost 2-1 to strelok, do you realize? He lost to someone who is first in his division, how shocking...cmon, dont be an idiot.
Watch his games dude. He won because strelok fucked up and let lings kill 20 of his scvs, and then got destroyed in the other two
Did you watch MLG?
Thats what I'm asking, why does he do good in MLG if he plays this bad outside of it?
Because Pool Play makes it so the results are heavily skewed towards pool players. And Haypro was in the weakest pool of the entire competition, Pool D.
On June 11 2011 11:58 1Eris1 wrote: lol slush. honestly, i'm always in shock when this guy gets top 8 every mlg. does he just baneling bust his way there or?
Hes actually pretty good, but he lost 2-1 to strelok, do you realize? He lost to someone who is first in his division, how shocking...cmon, dont be an idiot.
Watch his games dude. He won because strelok fucked up and let lings kill 20 of his scvs, and then got destroyed in the other two
Did you watch MLG?
Thats what I'm asking, why does he do good in MLG if he plays this bad outside of it?
Because Pool Play makes it so the results are heavily skewed towards pool players. And Haypro was in the weakest pool of the entire competition, Pool D.
On June 11 2011 12:31 Nimic wrote: I know people keep saying how Haypro is actually really good, and underrated, and all that, but when is he going to show it? :\
Patience, man. He's actually really good and underrated. You'll see.
On June 11 2011 11:58 1Eris1 wrote: lol slush. honestly, i'm always in shock when this guy gets top 8 every mlg. does he just baneling bust his way there or?
Hes actually pretty good, but he lost 2-1 to strelok, do you realize? He lost to someone who is first in his division, how shocking...cmon, dont be an idiot.
Watch his games dude. He won because strelok fucked up and let lings kill 20 of his scvs, and then got destroyed in the other two
Did you watch MLG?
Thats what I'm asking, why does he do good in MLG if he plays this bad outside of it?
Because Pool Play makes it so the results are heavily skewed towards pool players. And Haypro was in the weakest pool of the entire competition, Pool D.
The discussion was about Slush
Oh, my mistake. Slush played pretty well at MLG, especially in his ZvZ and the win against Naniwa.
Gretorp says: "HE MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET A GOOD SURROUND ... AND HE GETS IT !!!" when Naniwa had 50 supply army and Haypro only had drones. Stop that stupid, fake excitement. Its unrealistic and it doesn't matter of Haypro gets the best surround you can possibly get, game is done. Stop faking Gretorp or you will never be considered a serious caster.
Bleh. ;(
I know it was a joke but he says it fairly often and it just tipped me off. I apologize.
On June 11 2011 12:34 LesPhoques wrote: Gretorp says: "HE MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET A GOOD SURROUND ... AND HE GETS IT !!!" when Naniwa had 50 supply army and Haypro only had drones. Stop that stupid, fake excitement. Its unrealistic and it doesn't matter of Haypro gets the best surround you can possibly get, game is done. Stop faking Gretorp or you will never be considered a serious caster.
On June 11 2011 12:34 LesPhoques wrote: Gretorp says: "HE MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET A GOOD SURROUND ... AND HE GETS IT !!!" when Naniwa had 50 supply army and Haypro only had drones. Stop that stupid, fake excitement. Its unrealistic and it doesn't matter of Haypro gets the best surround you can possibly get, game is done. Stop faking Gretorp or you will never be considered a serious caster.
Bleh. ;(
I dislike Gretorp's casting more than just about anyone on TL...but he was obviously joking. It's something he and Geoff do because people complain about them calling the games too early.
On June 11 2011 12:34 LesPhoques wrote: Gretorp says: "HE MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET A GOOD SURROUND ... AND HE GETS IT !!!" when Naniwa had 50 supply army and Haypro only had drones. Stop that stupid, fake excitement. Its unrealistic and it doesn't matter of Haypro gets the best surround you can possibly get, game is done. Stop faking Gretorp or you will never be considered a serious caster.
On June 11 2011 12:34 LesPhoques wrote: Gretorp says: "HE MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET A GOOD SURROUND ... AND HE GETS IT !!!" when Naniwa had 50 supply army and Haypro only had drones. Stop that stupid, fake excitement. Its unrealistic and it doesn't matter of Haypro gets the best surround you can possibly get, game is done. Stop faking Gretorp or you will never be considered a serious caster.
On June 11 2011 11:58 1Eris1 wrote: lol slush. honestly, i'm always in shock when this guy gets top 8 every mlg. does he just baneling bust his way there or?
Hes actually pretty good, but he lost 2-1 to strelok, do you realize? He lost to someone who is first in his division, how shocking...cmon, dont be an idiot.
Watch his games dude. He won because strelok fucked up and let lings kill 20 of his scvs, and then got destroyed in the other two
Did you watch MLG?
Thats what I'm asking, why does he do good in MLG if he plays this bad outside of it?
Because Pool Play makes it so the results are heavily skewed towards pool players. And Haypro was in the weakest pool of the entire competition, Pool D.
The discussion was about Slush
Oh, my mistake. Slush played pretty well at MLG, especially in his ZvZ and the win against Naniwa.
Imo he and Strelok didn't care at all about their games, and that could explain their match, + a pretty good top 4 in the division.
On June 11 2011 12:34 LesPhoques wrote: Gretorp says: "HE MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET A GOOD SURROUND ... AND HE GETS IT !!!" when Naniwa had 50 supply army and Haypro only had drones. Stop that stupid, fake excitement. Its unrealistic and it doesn't matter of Haypro gets the best surround you can possibly get, game is done. Stop faking Gretorp or you will never be considered a serious caster.
Bleh. ;(
he was only joking. he then said "ONLY ONE ZEALOT LEFT"
On June 11 2011 12:31 Nimic wrote: I know people keep saying how Haypro is actually really good, and underrated, and all that, but when is he going to show it? :\
On June 11 2011 11:58 1Eris1 wrote: lol slush. honestly, i'm always in shock when this guy gets top 8 every mlg. does he just baneling bust his way there or?
Hes actually pretty good, but he lost 2-1 to strelok, do you realize? He lost to someone who is first in his division, how shocking...cmon, dont be an idiot.
Watch his games dude. He won because strelok fucked up and let lings kill 20 of his scvs, and then got destroyed in the other two
Did you watch MLG?
Thats what I'm asking, why does he do good in MLG if he plays this bad outside of it?
Because Pool Play makes it so the results are heavily skewed towards pool players. And Haypro was in the weakest pool of the entire competition, Pool D.
The discussion was about Slush
Oh, my mistake. Slush played pretty well at MLG, especially in his ZvZ and the win against Naniwa.
Imo he and Strelok didn't care at all about their games, and that could explain their match, + a pretty good top 4 in the division.
Gretorp says: "HE MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET A GOOD SURROUND ... AND HE GETS IT !!!" when Naniwa had 50 supply army and Haypro only had drones. Stop that stupid, fake excitement
Pretty sure that was sarcasm. But yeah embarrassing games, I wish these casters would troll bad play more to keep the poor games entertaining, a la tastosis.
On June 11 2011 12:34 LesPhoques wrote: Gretorp says: "HE MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET A GOOD SURROUND ... AND HE GETS IT !!!" when Naniwa had 50 supply army and Haypro only had drones. Stop that stupid, fake excitement. Its unrealistic and it doesn't matter of Haypro gets the best surround you can possibly get, game is done. Stop faking Gretorp or you will never be considered a serious caster.
Bleh. ;(
I know it was a joke but he says it fairly often and it just tipped me off. I apologize.
Thank god someone is here to set the record straight on drones vs zealots, stalkers and sentries. I know zergs have been going drone heavy a lot versus that composition but it really isn't working out for them. Even with upgrades drones just can't seem to defeat a standard gateway army from protoss.
Cheers to you sir, someone with the courage to stand up to convention. To defy the odds and show us the light.
On June 11 2011 12:37 Olinim wrote: I like how the players and casters barely even know the tournament set up xD
Even superintelligent alien life-forms of unimaginable complexity, who live in all dimensions at once and possess all knowledge of past, present, and future, don't understand the NASL tournament set up.
On June 11 2011 12:51 BroOd wrote: I feel like many people think peruse means something very different than it does.
how was it used? i missed when they said it. generally it means to look thru something/place closely or something similar no? ex: "I perused the gift shop for the perfect gift" time to whip out dictionary.com!
edit: 1. to read through with thoroughness or care: to peruse a report.
On June 11 2011 12:51 BroOd wrote: I feel like many people think peruse means something very different than it does.
how was it used? i missed when they said it. generally it means to look thru something/place closely or something similar no? ex: "I perused the gift shop for the perfect gift" time to whip out dictionary.com!
They were like "We don't read the forums, then Gretorp said, I guess i peruse the forums" Sounded like he thought it meant he glances over the forums, gave me the impression of the opposite of its meaning.
On June 11 2011 12:51 BroOd wrote: I feel like many people think peruse means something very different than it does.
how was it used? i missed when they said it. generally it means to look thru something/place closely or something similar no? ex: "I perused the gift shop for the perfect gift" time to whip out dictionary.com!
They were like "We don't read the forums, then Gretorp said, I guess i peruse the forums" Sounded like he thought it meant he glances over the forums, gave me the impression of the opposite of its meaning.
certainly wrong then xD
mm actually after looking it up it has multiple meanings so the first meaning :
1. to read through with thoroughness or care
it would be wrong but since there are two other usages of the word its not actually incorrect english, even if it might sound a bit off since the second usage of the word
2. to read.
it isnt incorrect in that context i suppose so you cant truly berate the guy I guess
On June 11 2011 12:51 BroOd wrote: I feel like many people think peruse means something very different than it does.
how was it used? i missed when they said it. generally it means to look thru something/place closely or something similar no? ex: "I perused the gift shop for the perfect gift" time to whip out dictionary.com!
I forget what the first usage was, the 2nd time gretorp was using it in the context of rarely browsing the forums, but it's a really common mistake. I think more people use it as a quick glance-over than in the correct way.
Hahahah what the hell was that. I was so sure DDE was just throwing away his whole army, but then suddenly it was no problem at all xD. And there's the GG.
I don't mind most of the music that some guy obviously synthesized on his computer by himself, but that last one he obviously composed right after listening to Greenday's American Idiot and either didn't notice or care that is virtually the same.
On June 11 2011 13:04 CosmicSpiral wrote: If you want to see the weakness of Hellion/Thor, look no further than this game.
idk, upgrade differential was pretty big, mech depends on large amounts of upgrades imo to be successful
The problem was Kawaii couldn't stop those medivac drops. Even though his expansion timing was woefully off, his army was too immobile to defend against them anyway.
On June 11 2011 13:06 Ansalem wrote: I don't mind most of the music that some guy obviously synthesized on his computer by himself, but that last one he obviously composed right after listening to Greenday's American Idiot and either didn't notice or care that is virtually the same.
I really enjoy the NASL, but both the NASL themselves and TL could make it so much better with more articles like the one posted recently, and more discussion about league tables. Rather than introducing the game each week it should all be about standings and showing a fancy table and stuff. Giving stats and shit.
Kawaii, his mechanics are great.. but his tatics seem lackluster, i mean i guess im not one to talk being shitty at mechanics but.. there isnt a snowballs chance in hell i would be attacking into his sieged tanks when i have siege and i could just deny his expo while i freely expo.
just as a btw, this is constructive criticism if ya read this buddy i do only want the best for ya ;D
I love KawaiiRice, I think he's going to either explode and become a huge name in a year or so to come or he'll stop playing competitively, I can't really see any other way for it to go for him, he just has so much natural talent that he'll either be at the top or not around.
On June 11 2011 13:20 ComusLoM wrote: I love KawaiiRice, I think he's going to either explode and become a huge name in a year or so to come or he'll stop playing competitively, I can't really see any other way for it to go for him, he just has so much natural talent that he'll either be at the top or not around.
Or since he's still a kid he will be somewhere around this level for a few years until he can fully devote to SC2
like really, if you have so much excess minerals... build some fucking static D 2 spines in each base with a spore and queen? easily at least keep the DTs at bay long enough to get reinforcements if he sends in 4 dts like that
Well if he stands up and fights roaches beat stalkers 1 to 1 provided no micro really goes off which I suppose is naive, but this is with zergs need to utilize infestors more.
Moonglade hasn't got the best macro out there. Has to improve multitasking, and don't wait until toss gets to 200/200 and attacks you, when you have useless roaches and lings and 5000 minerals in bank.
Disappointed. But this game was much much better in quality.
On June 11 2011 13:38 Xxavi wrote: Moonglade hasn't got the best macro out there. Has to improve multitasking, and don't wait until toss gets to 200/200 and attacks you, when you have useless roaches and lings and 5000 minerals in bank.
Disappointed. But this game was much much better in quality.
On June 11 2011 13:38 Xxavi wrote: Moonglade hasn't got the best macro out there. Has to improve multitasking, and don't wait until toss gets to 200/200 and attacks you, when you have useless roaches and lings and 5000 minerals in bank.
Disappointed. But this game was much much better in quality.
tbf squirtle peaked at like 160
Squirtle had around 180+ food when the engagement started.
Moonglade sits on his hands when he has a major lead after blocking the initial DTs, macros poorly (never falling below 1k minerals) and gets killed by DTs. Poor Glade, he really could have easily won that game if he was more proactive. Instead he let Squirtle catch up in supply while wandering aimlessly around the middle of the map.
On June 11 2011 13:38 Xxavi wrote: Moonglade hasn't got the best macro out there. Has to improve multitasking, and don't wait until toss gets to 200/200 and attacks you, when you have useless roaches and lings and 5000 minerals in bank.
Disappointed. But this game was much much better in quality.
tbf squirtle peaked at like 160
My impression is that its best if Zerg keeps attacking, outproducing and attacking again, so that Protoss is on his backfoot. It's a very difficult job to defend, when Protoss gets a big army and pushes out.
Especially if your army consists of lings and roaches.
I've been waiting for a reference to the 23 minute timing push all season! I just happened to be tuned in to his stream in 2009 when he first mentioned it, and the EG guys had a field day making fun of him for it.
Dat zergling bust. I liked how he continued busting after the stalker popped, a lone stalker takes an eternity to kill 10 lings, but most zerg are retreating anyway in that situation (well here he didn't have much choice, he was ALLIN)
Pretty good games tonight, a lot of them seemed like they were going to be better than they ended up being like the first moonglade game. But other than that this has been a pretty damn awesome division over the weeks.
On June 11 2011 12:34 LesPhoques wrote: Gretorp says: "HE MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET A GOOD SURROUND ... AND HE GETS IT !!!" when Naniwa had 50 supply army and Haypro only had drones. Stop that stupid, fake excitement. Its unrealistic and it doesn't matter of Haypro gets the best surround you can possibly get, game is done. Stop faking Gretorp or you will never be considered a serious caster.
Bleh. ;(
I know it was a joke but he says it fairly often and it just tipped me off. I apologize.
You didn't know it was a joke and I don't say it constantly anymore. It use to be that way in the first week and since there I've made a conscious effort not to do that. So please stop spreading this stupid steriotype of what kind of caster I am and realize that people can get better and I've changed quite a bit.
On June 11 2011 12:34 LesPhoques wrote: Gretorp says: "HE MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET A GOOD SURROUND ... AND HE GETS IT !!!" when Naniwa had 50 supply army and Haypro only had drones. Stop that stupid, fake excitement. Its unrealistic and it doesn't matter of Haypro gets the best surround you can possibly get, game is done. Stop faking Gretorp or you will never be considered a serious caster.
Bleh. ;(
I know it was a joke but he says it fairly often and it just tipped me off. I apologize.
You didn't know it was a joke and I don't say it constantly anymore. It use to be that way in the first week and since there I've made a conscious effort not to do that. So please stop spreading this stupid steriotype of what kind of caster I am and realize that people can get better and I've changed quite a bit.
On June 11 2011 12:34 LesPhoques wrote: Gretorp says: "HE MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET A GOOD SURROUND ... AND HE GETS IT !!!" when Naniwa had 50 supply army and Haypro only had drones. Stop that stupid, fake excitement. Its unrealistic and it doesn't matter of Haypro gets the best surround you can possibly get, game is done. Stop faking Gretorp or you will never be considered a serious caster.
Bleh. ;(
I know it was a joke but he says it fairly often and it just tipped me off. I apologize.
You didn't know it was a joke and I don't say it constantly anymore. It use to be that way in the first week and since there I've made a conscious effort not to do that. So please stop spreading this stupid steriotype of what kind of caster I am and realize that people can get better and I've changed quite a bit.
You didn't know it was a joke and I don't say it constantly anymore. It use to be that way in the first week and since there I've made a conscious effort not to do that. So please stop spreading this stupid steriotype of what kind of caster I am and realize that people can get better and I've changed quite a bit.
You have improved a lot, and it was obviously sarcasm so I don't know what that guy is talking about. The only thing I would be critical of is that you guys (NASL casters) never pull the trigger on calling straight up bad play bad and criticizing the player aggressively for what he is showing. The only way to make terrible matches entertaining is through commentary, and that requires trolling a little, something the NASL aside from occasionally Incontrol seems hesitant to do. Haypro deserved to get called out today for some of his play just as much as thebest did this morning. Please take a note from Tastosis here guys.
Notice how all of TheBest's games this morning are recommended, it is for the commentary not the gameplay, something NASL has not accomplished with any of the poor series you have had.
On June 11 2011 12:34 LesPhoques wrote: Gretorp says: "HE MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET A GOOD SURROUND ... AND HE GETS IT !!!" when Naniwa had 50 supply army and Haypro only had drones. Stop that stupid, fake excitement. Its unrealistic and it doesn't matter of Haypro gets the best surround you can possibly get, game is done. Stop faking Gretorp or you will never be considered a serious caster.
Bleh. ;(
I know it was a joke but he says it fairly often and it just tipped me off. I apologize.
You didn't know it was a joke and I don't say it constantly anymore. It use to be that way in the first week and since there I've made a conscious effort not to do that. So please stop spreading this stupid steriotype of what kind of caster I am and realize that people can get better and I've changed quite a bit.
I didn't imagine you or Geoff watched the NASL.
My world has been turned upside down.
I listen to them almost every day so i know what to improve. Then i look at the forums and see if theres any constructive criticism and I make sure that I change what I feel needs to be changed. I take my casting very seriously, and I need to make sure that people like lesphoques stop this stupid slander they keep doing from my first week of casting. If you dont like my casting then fine, if you think I haven't improved, alright. I know I have improved, and I think people that say you can't improve on speaking are delusional and I have no problem doing my best to prove them wrong. I'm just not going to stand for this useless perpetuation of mistakes i did in the past.
You didn't know it was a joke and I don't say it constantly anymore. It use to be that way in the first week and since there I've made a conscious effort not to do that. So please stop spreading this stupid steriotype of what kind of caster I am and realize that people can get better and I've changed quite a bit.
You have improved a lot, and it was obviously sarcasm so I don't know what that guy is talking about. The only thing I would be critical of is that you guys (NASL casters) never pull the trigger on calling straight up bad play bad and criticizing the player aggressively for what he is showing. The only way to make terrible matches entertaining is through commentary, and that requires trolling a little, something the NASL aside from occasionally Incontrol seems hesitant to do. Haypro deserved to get called out today for some of his play just as much as thebest did this morning. Please take a note from Tastosis here guys.
I feel they can troll more because they're not attached to the players as the koreans as we are to our foreigners. If i troll someone and make fun of them at the expense of "better ratings?" for NASL and then we meet up at the finals or MLG or anything, how awkward is that?
The players are becoming more valued because of NASL, and I doubt teams would be wanting to sponsor players that we are making fun of over and over.
Gretorp's casting has improved in every way possible. His speech is far more fluid. He gets tongue tied less and less each week. And most importantly his personality has really started to shine through, which is what I care about most in a caster.
My only peice of constructive criticism? "I agree 100%"... you guys both say it so much. How about 95%? 90%? I dread any comment that might require you guys to statistically evaluate how much you agree with one another.
I feel they can troll more because they're not attached to the players as the koreans as we are to our foreigners. If i troll someone and make fun of them at the expense of "better ratings?" for NASL and then we meet up at the finals or MLG or anything, how awkward is that?
I understand your point of view, but if you hold back due to social implications not only is the match not entertaining but you will be looked at as not "telling it like it is" and being honest. As a caster that should be your first priority, not wanting to be on good terms with players at social events. You have improved a lot, don't halt that progress because you are afraid of making a few waves.
I'm a casual viewer and love watching gretorp/INcontrol duo,its entertaining and very accessible too,even though they do give good analysis of the games. good job!!!
On June 11 2011 14:11 Brokenlamp wrote: Gretorp's casting has improved in every way possible. His speech is far more fluid. He gets tongue tied less and less each week. And most importantly his personality has really started to shine through, which is what I care about most in a caster.
My only peice of constructive criticism? "I agree 100%"... you guys both say it so much. How about 95%? 90%? I dread any comment that might require you guys to statistically evaluate how much you agree with one another.
I disagree with your opinion 100%
I also asked gretorp and he affirmed.. 100% disagreement as well. He and I are in 100% agreement on our disagreement with your opinion and us being 100% on said disagreement.
On June 11 2011 14:11 Brokenlamp wrote: Gretorp's casting has improved in every way possible. His speech is far more fluid. He gets tongue tied less and less each week. And most importantly his personality has really started to shine through, which is what I care about most in a caster.
My only peice of constructive criticism? "I agree 100%"... you guys both say it so much. How about 95%? 90%? I dread any comment that might require you guys to statistically evaluate how much you agree with one another.
I disagree with your opinion 100%
I also asked gretorp and he affirmed.. 100% disagreement as well. He and I are in 100% agreement on our disagreement with your opinion and us being 100% on said disagreement.
On June 11 2011 14:22 Gretorp wrote: the latter is more important though.
I think you can be openly critical of someone and be on good terms with them. It's just a matter of being lighthearted, honest, and most importantly, right.
Both you and InControl are capable of having fun with or critiquing a person's game, and not the person themselves. There's a big difference. I obviously don't know any of the pro's the way you do, but I hope that they are mature enough to understand the difference.
Wait how are squirtle and strelok guaranteed to enter the finals.
Squirtle was at 9 points, lost 1-2, so he sits at 8 Strelok won 2-1, was at 8 points, so he sites at 9 Naniwa was at 7 points, won 2-0, so he sits at 9.
On June 11 2011 17:47 GhostFall wrote: Wait how are squirtle and strelok guaranteed to enter the finals.
Squirtle was at 9 points, lost 1-2, so he sits at 8 Strelok won 2-1, was at 8 points, so he sites at 9 Naniwa was at 7 points, won 2-0, so he sits at 9.
On June 11 2011 17:47 GhostFall wrote: Wait how are squirtle and strelok guaranteed to enter the finals.
Squirtle was at 9 points, lost 1-2, so he sits at 8 Strelok won 2-1, was at 8 points, so he sites at 9 Naniwa was at 7 points, won 2-0, so he sits at 9.
So naniwa and strelok advance right?
Naniwa 6 wins, sqirtle 7 wins, strelok 8 wins.
Which goes to show how important a walkover can be.
Really surprised to see Axlav go toe to toe with NaDa, in a good way.
On June 11 2011 14:22 Gretorp wrote: the latter is more important though.
I think you can be openly critical of someone and be on good terms with them. It's just a matter of being lighthearted, honest, and most importantly, right.
Both you and InControl are capable of having fun with or critiquing a person's game, and not the person themselves. There's a big difference. I obviously don't know any of the pro's the way you do, but I hope that they are mature enough to understand the difference.
What kind of sports casters say "ya this guy is a fucking clown and played like garbage"... First of all, nobody in this league is a terrible / bad player. Secondly, nobody who wasn't a pro is in a position to tell a pro player that they played badly. You think they played badly, do it better yourself. Thirdly, the job of a broadcaster is to analyze and hype.
Anyone who says "NASL casters don't criticize the players" has never listened to the NASL. Does the term Artosis pylon ring a bell? That reason that term came into being was because iNcontroL/Gretorp trolled Artosis for stupidly powering all his production with one pylon. Instead of saying "PLayer X played fucking shitty," we say things like "if he had done X Y and Z, he might have been in a better position," or, "Player X won the decisive battle because his concave was vastly superior to Player Y." This way we're not disparaging any of our players.
Do you think anyone would take our league seriously if the casters talked about how bad the players are playing all the time? That's just fucking dumb.
On June 11 2011 18:23 Xeris wrote: Secondly, nobody who wasn't a pro is in a position to tell a pro player that they played badly. You think they played badly, do it better yourself.
I disagree 100%. If people didn't talk critically about players from any sport then conversations about that sport would be very boring indeed.
Same with the old "do it better yourself" argument, it's just ridiculous.
On June 11 2011 18:23 Xeris wrote: Secondly, nobody who wasn't a pro is in a position to tell a pro player that they played badly. You think they played badly, do it better yourself.
I disagree 100%. If people didn't talk critically about players from any sport then conversations about that sport would be very boring indeed.
Same with the old "do it better yourself" argument, it's just ridiculous.
I disagree with your disagreement. If you're not good enough to do something yourself, then you don't understand fully what goes into the activity. Therefore you can't criticize someone for not doing something that you yourself can't do.
It would be like me criticizing a mathematician for making mistakes in differentiation if I don't even know algebra.
I cant criticize rex grossman for throwing to the other team all game? Really?
Thats a terrible argument to make. I cant say someone on american idol is a terrible singer if i cant sing? You dont need to be able to do something to realize theres a problem/someone isnt doing very well.
On June 11 2011 18:23 Xeris wrote: Secondly, nobody who wasn't a pro is in a position to tell a pro player that they played badly. You think they played badly, do it better yourself.
I disagree 100%. If people didn't talk critically about players from any sport then conversations about that sport would be very boring indeed.
Same with the old "do it better yourself" argument, it's just ridiculous.
I disagree with your disagreement. If you're not good enough to do something yourself, then you don't understand fully what goes into the activity. Therefore you can't criticize someone for not doing something that you yourself can't do.
It would be like me criticizing a mathematician for making mistakes in differentiation if I don't even know algebra.
I don't agree. If the mathematician makes simple mistakes, everyone can call him out.
Xeris, there are "experts" on pretty much any sport or other stuff out there who doesnt practise what they comment about themselves. Just look at your average sports tv broadcast and I bet it wouldnt take you many seconds to find people who never played that sport on high level and still do an amazing job analyzing. Now playing SC2 certainly helps your understanding, but even I can sit home in my chair and see obvious flaws in many pros' play. Could I do it better overall? Of course not. Does it make me wrong? No.
Or as the guy above said. Do I have to be able to sing to criticise a terrible singer?
That said, you really shouldnt take all the criticism too hard. There will always be plenty of haters out there who will comment on the most ridiculous stuff like "this commentator uses this word too much". Thats not criticism, thats someone noticing something about the way someone talks, and deciding it annoys them. You really shouldnt answer to those people because you give them legitimacy by doing that. The people who dislike the casters are also much more likely to be vocal about it rather than those who like them. Obviously its no Tastosis and obviously it can get better, but its certainly good enough. You're just getting more hate because you're casting in a "big league", you'd never got that much hate if you'd been casting a small online cup.
On June 11 2011 18:23 Xeris wrote: You think they played badly, do it better yourself.
No. Even though you were right for most of the post but this is like saying to EVERYONE that criticized badly about someone in the NASL threads that they should play themself instead of being a fan and watch for fun. I myself do have HD pass and i watched the stream and vods without sound for the first 4-5 weeks LoL. Gretorps casting was just awefull at first but he has improved so much that i find it pretty good now ofcourse.
But anyways Xeris i did just call your caster bad at start so should i now cast just because i said he was bad? Fck no.
Am I the only one who really likes Gretorp as a caster? He has huge knowledge, great chemistry with almost any other caster, and has become more and more eloquent every week that passes. And his best characteristic? The unintended sexual innuendo that he drop's every so often. Much love Gretorp, please continue!
On June 11 2011 18:23 Xeris wrote: Secondly, nobody who wasn't a pro is in a position to tell a pro player that they played badly. You think they played badly, do it better yourself.
Sorry but that's just not a valid point. People can and do identify someone playing badly, even though they're the ones watching and the players are the ones in a big tournament. And if the average viewer can identify bad moves, then the casters absolutely have to call the players on their bad moves, because that's what they're also watching. Otherwise what're the casters gonna do? Lie and say they've played well? Get condescending and give some pats on the back? Stay awkwardly quiet? Of course not. And if casters don't call players on their bad moves because they're afraid the players will have some kind of grudge against them, well that's even worse. I'm sure they know even better than you that they've fucked up. That's what being better means.
On June 12 2011 00:09 MCDayC wrote: Am I the only one who really likes Gretorp as a caster? He has huge knowledge, great chemistry with almost any other caster, and has become more and more eloquent every week that passes. And his best characteristic? The unintended sexual innuendo that he drop's every so often. Much love Gretorp, please continue!
In the beginning I really didn't like Gretorp as a caster. He didn't get the jokes iNcontroL made and had and had a hard time to analyse the game when iNcontroL took as much space as he did. He just felt unnecessary.
This did however change when Gretorp, after some time, started casting with invited casters. Now I think the interaction between Gretorp and the invited casters are better than the interaction between him and iNcontroL. This have made me actually prefer Gretorp casting with invited casters in front of him casting with iNcontroL. Now I rather see iNcontroL playing than him casting games.
I went from: iNcontroL (yay!) Gretorp (nay!) to iNcontroL (nay!) Gretorp (yay!)
Shame that the dde game had to be rescheduled a half hour after he got off work and had no time to practice. I don't think haypro would have won otherwise
When casters praise the mistakes of players and cover up the bad play that even the most casual gamer can see, it just looks really silly. You don't need to say "That's fucking terrible!" but I think it's necessary to at least mention it.
People should stop talking in extremes in either direction.
On June 11 2011 14:22 Gretorp wrote: the latter is more important though.
I think you can be openly critical of someone and be on good terms with them. It's just a matter of being lighthearted, honest, and most importantly, right.
Both you and InControl are capable of having fun with or critiquing a person's game, and not the person themselves. There's a big difference. I obviously don't know any of the pro's the way you do, but I hope that they are mature enough to understand the difference.
What kind of sports casters say "ya this guy is a fucking clown and played like garbage"... First of all, nobody in this league is a terrible / bad player. Secondly, nobody who wasn't a pro is in a position to tell a pro player that they played badly. You think they played badly, do it better yourself. Thirdly, the job of a broadcaster is to analyze and hype.
Anyone who says "NASL casters don't criticize the players" has never listened to the NASL. Does the term Artosis pylon ring a bell? That reason that term came into being was because iNcontroL/Gretorp trolled Artosis for stupidly powering all his production with one pylon. Instead of saying "PLayer X played fucking shitty," we say things like "if he had done X Y and Z, he might have been in a better position," or, "Player X won the decisive battle because his concave was vastly superior to Player Y." This way we're not disparaging any of our players.
Do you think anyone would take our league seriously if the casters talked about how bad the players are playing all the time? That's just fucking dumb.
The average Sc2 viewer is much more clued up than the average sports viewer is, if you pretend something is really close, or both players played great when they didn't it's almost insulting to us as viewers that you think we'll believe you.
Tastosis have never been afraid to trash bad play and they're by far the most popular commentating team and GSL is I believe the most watched tournament. Those two are obviously not the only reason why GSL is so popular but clearly vieiwers of Sc2 like the straight talking style rather than a Total Biscuit style "Player A is fantastic, look at Player B some fantastic play by him, this game is fantastic, never have I seen such fantastic play" when Player A just proxy Zealot rushed while Player B went Nexus first.
There's some comparison to be made between mainstream sports and SC2 but it's way too often used to justify something which the majority of SC2 viewers dislike.
I don't see how it's a bad thing to say a player played bad. In certain situations, it is obvious when a player underperforms. The caster shouldn't sugarcoat it and pretend they played extraordinary.
When Lebron James scores 5 points in a game, do you think the commentators go on about how good he played? No. They call him out and say it wasn't his best game. They'll mention what part of his game they felt was off (his macro... forcefield placement... unit positioning, whatever) and how his opponent forced him into that situation.
You're not calling him a bad player. You're saying he played poorly in this game. You can say he didn't play up to his level. There are many ways to put it that isn't insulting to the player and doesn't sugarcoat what happened.
As a caster, you should never be afraid to comment the game exactly how it happened. And if that means someone had terrible macro all game... then go ahead and say it. Just be gentle about it.
Is there any reason why the stream's been unwatchably laggy for the last few weeks? My internet is perfectly fine and I used to be able to watch flawlessly, but for some reason it's gone to completely unwatchable. The adverts playing perfectly makes it that much more annoying
On June 12 2011 03:01 branflakes14 wrote: Is there any reason why the stream's been unwatchably laggy for the last few weeks? My internet is perfectly fine and I used to be able to watch flawlessly, but for some reason it's gone to completely unwatchable. The adverts playing perfectly makes it that much more annoying
My streams have always been like then when trying to watch NASL. I gave up.
I cant watch the EU NASL.tv stream here in Denmark without getting so mutch lag that it's unwatchable. But!!!! if i connect to my NA VPN and try to watch the same EU NASL.tv stream i can now watch it without lag at all and this is how i have been watching NASL...
I realy would like to know why the EU stream for NASL is only for americans ???
Also i get a ton of comercials on the stream when i use the NA VPN and no comercials if i just connect with my danish connection.
On June 12 2011 03:26 Zihn wrote: I cant watch the EU NASL.tv stream here in Denmark without getting so mutch lag that it's unwatchable. But!!!! if i connect to my NA VPN and try to watch the same EU NASL.tv stream i can now watch it without lag at all and this is how i have been watching NASL...
I realy would like to know why the EU stream for NASL is only for americans ???
Also i get a ton of comercials on the stream when i use the NA VPN and no comercials if i just connect with my danish connection.
I get no a lag at all on any of the streams (EU or US) from Sweden. The problem is probably on your side or with your ISP.
On June 11 2011 14:22 Gretorp wrote: the latter is more important though.
I think you can be openly critical of someone and be on good terms with them. It's just a matter of being lighthearted, honest, and most importantly, right.
Both you and InControl are capable of having fun with or critiquing a person's game, and not the person themselves. There's a big difference. I obviously don't know any of the pro's the way you do, but I hope that they are mature enough to understand the difference.
What kind of sports casters say "ya this guy is a fucking clown and played like garbage"... First of all, nobody in this league is a terrible / bad player. Secondly, nobody who wasn't a pro is in a position to tell a pro player that they played badly. You think they played badly, do it better yourself. Thirdly, the job of a broadcaster is to analyze and hype.
Anyone who says "NASL casters don't criticize the players" has never listened to the NASL. Does the term Artosis pylon ring a bell? That reason that term came into being was because iNcontroL/Gretorp trolled Artosis for stupidly powering all his production with one pylon. Instead of saying "PLayer X played fucking shitty," we say things like "if he had done X Y and Z, he might have been in a better position," or, "Player X won the decisive battle because his concave was vastly superior to Player Y." This way we're not disparaging any of our players.
Do you think anyone would take our league seriously if the casters talked about how bad the players are playing all the time? That's just fucking dumb.
I think you're mischaracterizing my response, and think that somehow I'm criticizing Gretorp for not being 'critical enough', when I haven't suggested anything along those lines. In fact, I stated that Gretorp and InControl are both more than capable of doing this. We're not in disagreement at all.
I was responding to Gretorp suggestion that while being critical of players during a cast is important, maintaining relationships is more important. This was my attempt at being diplomatic and suggesting it's important to do both.
Did I suggest that a sportscaster say, "ya this guy is a fucking clown and played like garbage"? NO. That is 100% some bullshit that you imagined I said.
But fuck it, I'll bite.
In a collegial atmosphere, where the participants are mature, likeable and sociable human beings, someone like InControl or Gretorp should be able to say, "Man, Tyler is playing pretty bad right now." In fact, they should even be able to be cavalier about it, and say, "Wow, this absolutely the worst army control I've seen this week." T
his kind of criticism should be able to happen without Tyler, the NASL staff, or the fans suddenly freaking out and saying, "Holy shit, InControl thinks Tyler sucks at Starcraft!" There's a big difference between having a bad game and being a bad player.
Honestly though, considering how you yourself Xeris chose to overreact to my post, I don't know if that's ever going to happen in this hype-sensitive community.
I suggest you re-read what I originally wrote, without being so defensive. It's quite obvious it was complete innocuous, and actually an attempt to be supportive and nice.
Why am I not surprised to see somebody named defacer saying casters should call players bad?
Also, there is no reason to say things like that, it adds nothing to the cast and only makes the player feel worse. As far as I'm concerned there shouldn't even be a discussion over this, it's just a stupid idea for casters to insult players by calling them bad or saying "Wow, this is absolutely the worst army control I've seen this week." T
On June 12 2011 04:27 d(O.o)a wrote: Why am I not surprised to see somebody named defacer saying casters should call players bad?
Also, there is no reason to say things like that, it adds nothing to the cast and only makes the player feel worse. As far as I'm concerned there shouldn't even be a discussion over this, it's just a stupid idea for casters to insult players by calling them bad or saying "Wow, this is absolutely the worst army control I've seen this week." T
That adds absolutely nothing to the cast.
I'll repeat, for the third time, just because you're calling out someone for making a bad decision doesn't mean you think they're a bad player or bad person.
On June 12 2011 04:27 d(O.o)a wrote: Also, there is no reason to say things like that, it adds nothing to the cast and only makes the player feel worse. As far as I'm concerned there shouldn't even be a discussion over this, it's just a stupid idea for casters to insult players by calling them bad or saying "Wow, this is absolutely the worst army control I've seen this week." T
Whereas I think (to paraphrase you directly) that the most stupid idea ever invented is "we should not say some things so we can avoid offending someone".
Honesty is the best policy and I think that this is one very good think about this cast, they are not afraid to say, that someone has played poorly (I can even live without iNc sugarcoating it with all teh stuff about "he will be better"). Haypro has obviously shown some pretty important mistakes and his play obviously inferior to Naniwas. There is no need to deny that. They are not bashing him, they are not being annoying, they just comment on his play.
On June 12 2011 03:26 Zihn wrote: I cant watch the EU NASL.tv stream here in Denmark without getting so mutch lag that it's unwatchable. But!!!! if i connect to my NA VPN and try to watch the same EU NASL.tv stream i can now watch it without lag at all and this is how i have been watching NASL...
I realy would like to know why the EU stream for NASL is only for americans ???
Also i get a ton of comercials on the stream when i use the NA VPN and no comercials if i just connect with my danish connection.
I get no a lag at all on any of the streams (EU or US) from Sweden. The problem is probably on your side or with your ISP.
I would agree if not for the VPN. The VPN still uses my regular internet 20 mbit but bounces the trafic across a server in USA to give me an NA IP, if the problem was with my internet then i should have even more problems bouncing trafic from an EU server to USA and then back to EU (Denmark) compared to just having it go straight from the EU server to Denmark.
On June 12 2011 04:27 d(O.o)a wrote: Also, there is no reason to say things like that, it adds nothing to the cast and only makes the player feel worse. As far as I'm concerned there shouldn't even be a discussion over this, it's just a stupid idea for casters to insult players by calling them bad or saying "Wow, this is absolutely the worst army control I've seen this week." T
Whereas I think (to paraphrase you directly) that the most stupid idea ever invented is "we should not say some things so we can avoid offending someone".
Honesty is the best policy and I think that this is one very good think about this cast, they are not afraid to say, that someone has played poorly (I can even live without iNc sugarcoating it with all teh stuff about "he will be better"). Haypro has obviously shown some pretty important mistakes and his play obviously inferior to Naniwas. There is no need to deny that. They are not bashing him, they are not being annoying, they just comment on his play.
Saying somebody played worse than their opponent is different from saying they played bad, saying they played bad adds absolutely nothing to the commentary and there's no point saying it. I would much rather they take that time to explain the faults they made than say something along the lines of "Well, that was awful what is player X doing right now? He's playing bad."
On June 12 2011 03:26 Zihn wrote: I cant watch the EU NASL.tv stream here in Denmark without getting so mutch lag that it's unwatchable. But!!!! if i connect to my NA VPN and try to watch the same EU NASL.tv stream i can now watch it without lag at all and this is how i have been watching NASL...
I realy would like to know why the EU stream for NASL is only for americans ???
Also i get a ton of comercials on the stream when i use the NA VPN and no comercials if i just connect with my danish connection.
I get no a lag at all on any of the streams (EU or US) from Sweden. The problem is probably on your side or with your ISP.
I would agree if not for the VPN. The VPN still uses my regular internet 20 mbit but bounces the trafic across a server in USA to give me an NA IP, if the problem was with my internet then i should have even more problems bouncing trafic from an EU server to USA and then back to EU (Denmark) compared to just having it go straight from the EU server to Denmark.
The problem lies with your ISP. The traffic exchange between your ISP and the part of Europe where the server is located is not good enough.
Saying somebody played worse than their opponent is different from saying they played bad, saying they played bad adds absolutely nothing to the commentary and there's no point saying it. I would much rather they take that time to explain the faults they made than say something along the lines of "Well, that was awful what is player X doing right now? He's playing bad."
Have you watched TheBest vs. MKP? Or even some of tastosis earlier Code A commentary? Obviously it adds something to the cast because the majority of people up vote those casts despite poor game play. Saying it adds nothing is just your opinion, and most people seem to disagree with you.
Ok so maybe some people find it funny that they're calling somebody who's infinitely better than they are bad, but it is just wasted time, we gain absolutely nothing from Gretorp or Incontrol saying "Well, that was awful, player Y is so bad." whereas if they say something like "Well, that engagement wasn't good by player Y; he would've been way better off hanging around for more reinforcements." or whatever it may be.
It's unprofessional and when I personally hear commentators bashing the players without adding anything else to the cast I turn off the sound. Artosis and Tasteless vods will get "up votes" and tons of views regardless of what they do because it's Artosis and Tasteless, they could spend the whole time making completely irrelevant horrible jokes and people would still watch it.
On June 12 2011 07:04 d(O.o)a wrote: Ok so maybe some people find it funny that they're calling somebody who's infinitely better than they are bad, but it is just wasted time, we gain absolutely nothing from Gretorp or Incontrol saying "Well, that was awful, player Y is so bad." whereas if they say something like "Well, that engagement wasn't good by player Y; he would've been way better off hanging around for more reinforcements." or whatever it may be.
It's unprofessional and when I personally hear commentators bashing the players without adding anything else to the cast I turn off the sound. Artosis and Tasteless vods will get "up votes" and tons of views regardless of what they do because it's Artosis and Tasteless, they could spend the whole time making completely irrelevant horrible jokes and people would still watch it.
I get what you're saying, but given that casting is kind of a spontaneous activity I don't think casters shouldn't say "player X is playing bad" on principle. Sometimes people do play badly, and there is no shame (to both the casters and the players) to call on it. There's a difference between stating that a player is playing badly and bashing a player in a disproportionate manner, and the former is fine as far as I'm concerned.
A casters job is to do a few things: 1) Entertain their audience (humor, awesome sounding voice, enthusiasm etc.) 2) Explain what is occurring to the audience (play by play) 3) Critically analyze events (different builds/strategies, explanation of engagements etc. etc.)
You can't do 3) unless you are willing to be candid about the players strengths and weaknesses. If a player lost because they macroed poorly, you have to say it. If a player lost because he engaged poorly, you have to say it. Whatever the problem is, you have to mention it. But you can't just say "both players are fantastic and they played fantastic and everything is fantastic" without acknowledging their mistakes/weaknesses.
And this isn't the same as Xeris' absolutely ludicrous statement of "ya this guy is a fucking clown and played like garbage". No one said anything remotely similar to that. Instead this could be as simple as something like: Player X lost this game because he had a bad engagement. There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying something like that. It is an honest appraisal of the situation and that is exactly what is necessary when critically analyzing a game.
It's the same thing as when an NBA commentator will say something like "Lebron is forcing too many shots instead of trying to find open teammates" or "his shot is just off today" or whatever. You have to be willing to criticize the players while still being respectful. That is all people want. We just don't want to be constantly told that everyone is playing amazingly when it is obvious that that isn't true in many cases.
Btw, I'm not saying gretorp or incontrol are doing that. I'm just saying this is how it should be. I'm not sure what sparked this debate (I didn't watch all of last night) and I don't care. I'm just giving my opinion on the matter.
Btw, I'm not saying gretorp or incontrol are doing that. I'm just saying this is how it should be. I'm not sure what sparked this debate (I didn't watch all of last night) and I don't care. I'm just giving my opinion on the matter.
I think this debate occurred specifically because there were some very poor games on NASL today from a gameplay standpoint, and if you contrast those to how the poor games on GSL were handled earlier on in the day there is a huge difference between how the casters handled the games. Most viewers seem to prefer Tastosis style of handling poor gameplay, gretorp/xeris/doa disagree. Gretorp made an excellent point that they have to deal with these players in social situations where Tastosis don't. Aside from that point I don't agree with most of the other ones xeris and doa are making, especially the laughably foolish "you can't criticize someone unless you are better than them" argument.
On June 12 2011 08:04 DoomsVille wrote: You don't get it d(O.o)a.
A casters job is to do a few things: 1) Entertain their audience (humor, awesome sounding voice, enthusiasm etc.) 2) Explain what is occurring to the audience (play by play) 3) Critically analyze events (different builds/strategies, explanation of engagements etc. etc.)
You can't do 3) unless you are willing to be candid about the players strengths and weaknesses. If a player lost because they macroed poorly, you have to say it. If a player lost because he engaged poorly, you have to say it. Whatever the problem is, you have to mention it. But you can't just say "both players are fantastic and they played fantastic and everything is fantastic" without acknowledging their mistakes/weaknesses.
And this isn't the same as Xeris' absolutely ludicrous statement of "ya this guy is a fucking clown and played like garbage". No one said anything remotely similar to that. Instead this could be as simple as something like: Player X lost this game because he had a bad engagement. There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying something like that. It is an honest appraisal of the situation and that is exactly what is necessary when critically analyzing a game.
It's the same thing as when an NBA commentator will say something like "Lebron is forcing too many shots instead of trying to find open teammates" or "his shot is just off today" or whatever. You have to be willing to criticize the players while still being respectful. That is all people want. We just don't want to be constantly told that everyone is playing amazingly when it is obvious that that isn't true in many cases.
Btw, I'm not saying gretorp or incontrol are doing that. I'm just saying this is how it should be. I'm not sure what sparked this debate (I didn't watch all of last night) and I don't care. I'm just giving my opinion on the matter.
You seem to be the one who doesn't get my point. I'm not saying they shouldn't say that they're doing something wrong, but to blatantly insult the players by saying they're bad or playing bad (as opposed to doing things wrong) is just in poor taste. As I stated earlier this is just my opinion though, and not everybody will share that. I'm not going to knock you for enjoying casters saying people are playing bad or they're bad, that's your prerogative but I personally don't enjoy it and I was simply putting in my 2 cents.
On June 11 2011 18:23 Xeris wrote: Secondly, nobody who wasn't a pro is in a position to tell a pro player that they played badly. You think they played badly, do it better yourself.
I disagree 100%. If people didn't talk critically about players from any sport then conversations about that sport would be very boring indeed.
Same with the old "do it better yourself" argument, it's just ridiculous.
I disagree with your disagreement. If you're not good enough to do something yourself, then you don't understand fully what goes into the activity. Therefore you can't criticize someone for not doing something that you yourself can't do.
It would be like me criticizing a mathematician for making mistakes in differentiation if I don't even know algebra.
OK, then Artosis and Tasteless need to retire, because they can't play sc2 as well as MMA and MKP the next gsl match they're going to be commentating.
Stupid argument with the math example. Math =/= a sport. In a sport, it's obviously what someone is supposed to ideally be doing, in math, the objective is known, you're trying to discover how to get there.
For example, in TheBestfOu vrs MKP, tastosis knows what Thebest has to do with his banshee to win the game...so they know when he's not doing that. So they criticize him for it.
But if you disagree with all of the above, I just want you to know I'm a pretty good debater, captain of my school's team etc so you can't really criticize my argument while staying true to yours
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