EPTJust really awesome timing on the "All Kill" Caption.
Actually reminded me of bowling for some reason.
MC and da chair comes 2nd. Ballers be balling.
[GSTL May] Ro8 Day 2 - Page 207
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Aruno
New Zealand748 Posts
Just really awesome timing on the "All Kill" Caption. Actually reminded me of bowling for some reason. MC and da chair comes 2nd. Ballers be balling. | ||
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TheDougler
Canada8308 Posts
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zyzq
United States3123 Posts
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
On May 18 2011 01:24 Vorenius wrote: Actually I think the match we just watched was probably the best example of it I have see to date. The very last battle was completely oGsMC's to either win or lose. It would all come down to his force fields. There was nothing July could have done to micro around that. If MC made good force fields who would win (and he did because he's an awesome player) if he somehow completely missed his force fields July would have won (or maybe not, MC was probably too far ahead it this point). In the end MC won because he was good. Not because he was better than July, or because July played bad. He was good enough to make sufficient force fields and that won him the fight. Obviously July lost the game before that by not knowing where MC's army was. Again, this isn't to show imbalance or anyof the sort. It's just to show how force fields is a badly designed spell. Wouldn't it have been a much more exciting game to watch if both players were able to actually impact the last fight? If it was anyone's match to win? Having the match come down to one player is just pretty bad for entertainment, and pretty frustrating as a player I would imagine. And yeah, there are other spells that work in similar ways, but none are as accessible or commonly used as force fields are. Watch GSL 5. MC beat July w/o sentries and w/o col. One game he literally lost no units. MC just has his number get over it. | ||
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relyt
United States1073 Posts
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
we really need a place to store them all so we can browse later | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
On May 18 2011 14:36 tdt wrote: Watch GSL 5. MC beat July w/o sentries and w/o col. One game he literally lost no units. MC just has his number get over it. Quote wars. That's not the point. His argument isn't "July is better than MC but FFs are imba," his argument is that FFs are a bad mechanic. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=213083 goes over more or less the same point in detail. That thread makes the point that this is one of the fundamental differences between SC2 and BW. I disagree with a lot of SC2/BW comparisons, but that one is interesting because it hits on a fundamental design ethos. SC2 seems to come down to big single plays in a short space of time; the battles and games are often won or lost with the first wall of FFs, the first ling flank; the rest of the fight is just waiting for the AI to do its thing. You might think that's bad or you might like it. Personally I think it's interesting, but ultimately not great for competitive play once everyone has MC's FFs. What you really need is interplay. I do feel like it's important to realise that FF is not the only culprit, it's just one of the most common because it comes out so early. Fungal is even worse, because there's literally nothing you can do with a unit that's been fungaled, you can't even burrow or elevator (I think?) or whatever. You just sit there and hope he forgets to place another one before you can get your units out. SC2 has an abundance of abilities which are one-sided. They don't promote interaction, in the sense that "I dark swarm my lurkers so you unsiege your tanks so i push my lings so you [...]" back and forwards until the battle is over. It's "will the toss make his FFs?" FF, fungal, EMP (particularly on KA-less toss), vortex, even smart-cast storm to some extent... they all do the same thing; take options away from the opponent, without making others available. That's the broader argument, I think. It's got nothing to do with whether July should have won or not. | ||
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Hibahihi
United States67 Posts
On May 18 2011 15:11 relyt wrote: Hey I don't know where to ask this but, is tastosis casting the semi final tonight? Doa and Moletrap will be casting the whole GSTL http://www.gomtv.net/forum/view.gom?topicid=192164&cid=0&kind=1 | ||
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Roaches
Denmark152 Posts
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Vorlik
1522 Posts
On May 18 2011 15:40 Hibahihi wrote: Doa and Moletrap will be casting the whole GSTL http://www.gomtv.net/forum/view.gom?topicid=192164&cid=0&kind=1 This ruined my day =( | ||
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jdeliverer
United States35 Posts
On May 17 2011 23:24 namedplayer wrote: I hate ogs MC one man team Yeah, that's why ogs has the most code S players of all the teams. By far. | ||
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Mios
United States686 Posts
On May 18 2011 15:40 Hibahihi wrote: Doa and Moletrap will be casting the whole GSTL http://www.gomtv.net/forum/view.gom?topicid=192164&cid=0&kind=1 God. GSTL literally went from the most anticipated tournament to a complete letdown for me. DoA and moletrap are fine play by play commentators, but they have no insight. They completely fail together, pair one of them with artosis or another high level analytical commentator and fine. Bla bla bla everyone knows why they suck I'm just sad. | ||
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Tommylew
Wales2717 Posts
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On May 18 2011 01:24 Vorenius wrote: Actually I think the match we just watched was probably the best example of it I have see to date. The very last battle was completely oGsMC's to either win or lose. It would all come down to his force fields. There was nothing July could have done to micro around that. If MC made good force fields who would win (and he did because he's an awesome player) if he somehow completely missed his force fields July would have won (or maybe not, MC was probably too far ahead it this point). In the end MC won because he was good. Not because he was better than July, or because July played bad. He was good enough to make sufficient force fields and that won him the fight. Obviously July lost the game before that by not knowing where MC's army was. Again, this isn't to show imbalance or anyof the sort. It's just to show how force fields is a badly designed spell. Wouldn't it have been a much more exciting game to watch if both players were able to actually impact the last fight? If it was anyone's match to win? Having the match come down to one player is just pretty bad for entertainment, and pretty frustrating as a player I would imagine. And yeah, there are other spells that work in similar ways, but none are as accessible or commonly used as force fields are. Well what are they going to do now? They would have to completely re-design the race, Protoss NEEDS forcefields in the early/mid and sometimes lategame to fight efficiently, look at baneling/ling/Infestor, bad forcefields and you lose your entire army to an army that costs half as much. Just because FF is more obvious in how it works doesn't mean that other things the races can do aren't just as limiting to Protoss. Say, a Ling surrond when pushing out with your early-mid game Stalker/Sentry army is instant death, just because you can kill the lings doesn't take away the fact you can't get out of the pin because you just don't have the DPS that early in the game. Or a Tank contain if the Tanks get in in position, sure you aren't limited, but if you walk out you are going to lose everything to tank fire, you HAVE to employ some tactics and get around it, like with ff's, you have to draw them out, engage in areas that aren't too rewarding for the Protoss. Instead of treating Forcefields like a fucing coin flip, how about respecting what is capable of FF's. Instead of saying "well I hope he doesn't do good FF's" and instead think "how well can he FF's and where can I engage to take minmal losses", because the fact is, just becaue you lose units and the Protoss doesn't, DOES NOT mean you are behind. I think peoples reaction to FF's is just because it is soo obvious compared to other ways of controlling space. If you see a bunch of Lings or Banes then you know you just can't walk out and not care because they will surrond you and will kill you and lose hardly anything in return, you have to be smart about it. Same with Tanks, just because they are unseiged doesnt mean you can engage any which way you want, you know if you step in to the open the Terran is going to seige and ruin you. Protoss unlike Terran or Zerg, don't have that mechanism until Templar, really, how do you pusish a player who steps out too much as Protoss? FF's are your only way of doing it, there is nothing that moves at the speed of light that can surrond or slow a section of your army, nor any 13 range units that make passning certain areas suicide.Their amry in small numbers are much weaker than Terran/Zerg and rely on sticking together. Protoss have no means in which to surrond other races either, infact it is the only race that relies on fight in smaller spaces and how the army balls up is an indicator to that. Forcefield is the only thing they have to punish stupid play other than just being greedy and macroing. In anycase you can think of the sentry energy itself being apart of the Protoss army. For example in the two base Roach/Ling push, even if you fail or do minal damage, you are so far a head of the Protoss if you manage to draw out every forcefield, you know he hasn't got the army strength to push out with what he has and the third you took as you pushed goes uncontested and thus you are free to drone. Also MC's army of Stalker/Sentry cost much more than Julys Hydra/Roach army too. A Stalker is twice the cost of a Roach and 25minerals more than a Hydra. | ||
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proxY_
United States1561 Posts
On May 18 2011 15:40 Hibahihi wrote: Doa and Moletrap will be casting the whole GSTL http://www.gomtv.net/forum/view.gom?topicid=192164&cid=0&kind=1 Not to dump on Doa and Moletrap but I'm actually not going to buy the gstl for that reason, I just find that I can't enjoy games with their commentary. | ||
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Kamikiri
United States1319 Posts
I have to admit i like moletraps enthusiasim when boxer is playing, i wish he would do that more, perhaps over time they will become just as good as Tastosis. | ||
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
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Zeles
United States335 Posts
On May 18 2011 16:38 proxY_ wrote: Not to dump on Doa and Moletrap but I'm actually not going to buy the gstl for that reason, I just find that I can't enjoy games with their commentary. You're not alone with that sentiment. Definitely changed my decision on buying the pass. | ||
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Lyter
United Kingdom2145 Posts
On May 18 2011 17:02 Zeles wrote: You're not alone with that sentiment. Definitely changed my decision on buying the pass. Already bought it before i knew  | ||
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