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[GSL] Code S r8 Day 1 - Page 85

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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FataLe
Profile Joined November 2010
New Zealand4561 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-03 12:06:55
May 03 2011 12:04 GMT
#1681
On May 03 2011 21:01 T.Probe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2011 20:52 FataLe wrote:
On May 03 2011 20:50 T.Probe wrote:
On May 03 2011 20:37 HyunA1 wrote:
Why is it that I sense 99% of QQ'ers in this thread play zerg?

If it's not cheese that you're crying about, it's something about your race. When a zerg wins, it's "perfect play" that outplays his opponent.


Its funny how people imply that the majority of people who play zerg are qq'ers by nature. The reason why so many zerg's qq must be because there must be an issue in balance with the race.

Or because they have a role model who shares his opinions freely.

Not that, that discredits what he's saying. But most of these Zergs are just sheep. Whether the game has become balanced or not. They'll blame a Zerg's loss on imbalance 'till their idol says it isn't so.

Sorry If I'm coming across strong :\


lol, your also implying that only certain types of people play zerg based on their personality which is obviously a wrong assumption.

Read my other post, it clears up what you're getting at.
Apologies :X

But even so. Personality could be a major factor in why someone plays/doesn't play a certain race. Just for arguments sake.
hi. big fan.
realstarcrafter
Profile Joined March 2011
92 Posts
May 03 2011 12:05 GMT
#1682
On May 03 2011 21:02 ChickenLips wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2011 20:33 zocktol wrote:
On May 03 2011 20:32 ChickenLips wrote:
'One of the best Terrans in Korea'

'Amazing TvZ player'

wow, I don't think Tasteless has ever said something more wrong, and everything he does is plugging sponsor / parrotting Artosis / saying wrong things about SC2 24/7.


Explain, why he is wrong please.


Go watch his games against BbongBbongPrime in the FXOpen, a completely atrocious Zerg. What he did (and still does) is just suicide groups of tank/marine in the first 20 minutes and then start adding medivacs and doing the same while putting PFs around the map so he doesn't die and has somewhere he spam his mules.

No multitasking (constantly getting caught off-guard and un-sieged like a diamond player (Artosis actually commented on this)),
Bad macro (1000 minerals at 10 minutes when all he has to manage is marine production that exceeds his income by 150%),
Spare drops.
Bad strategies (First game was insanely risky and banked on LosirA not making a baneling nest, or even going for baneling speed which completely rolls his mass marine strategy, second game blind cheese (this had the best execution out of the 3 actually) and the third game he didn't make any medivacs for the longest time.. this is not safe play. one proper engagement by Zerg (and not the half-assed shit LosirA did) and you get absolutely rolled by muta/ling/baneling)

This guy is by far not the best Terran and he also isn't good at TvZ. If you wanna go watch either of those things, go watch Mvp (amazing all-around), MKP(impressive micro), Bomber(very good macro and extremely solid decision-making), MMA(better execution than most of the top terrans and very good gamesense) or even KeeN(safe play, has solid game-plan and multi-tasking and good micro). Those Terrans actually surprised me with certain aspects of their play, they showed a profound understanding of the game and didn't brute-force their way through their TvZs like this noobie did.

I actually used to be a fan of sC because he went for long games, but what I've seen in the past 2 days is just disgusting and I don't want to see people going around regurgitating Tasteless' shallow thoughts about how impressive sC is. He's not.

Well said indeed.
Blasterion
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
China10272 Posts
May 03 2011 12:05 GMT
#1683
On May 03 2011 21:03 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2011 20:58 grumpyone wrote:
On May 03 2011 20:44 greycubed wrote:
On May 03 2011 20:08 greycubed wrote:
On May 03 2011 20:06 Pajegetc wrote:
On May 03 2011 20:04 Zeon0 wrote:
ZvT still sucks


Not really, it's the most balanced match up.
Tournament results: http://i.imgur.com/eJge4.png
Same thing for Korea: http://i.imgur.com/wpuby.png


Wow. Seriously wondering about the current *vP metagames in Korea.



the sample only contains around 500 vP games at all (6months), the "current ones" would be around 50-100 games which isn't really saying a lot, because if 2-3 Protoss players that performed greatly before (like MC) lose some games and don't get to play more like in the current Code S, this means that Protoss suddenly misses 10-20 wins, if there is noone to take their places.
there is just not enough data in the korean version. (though I still like to see those stats)

Korean Tournament is a small sample size, so the graph is very volatile, as included in the OP of the thread that provided the graph
[TLNY]Mahjong Club Thread
ChickenLips
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
2912 Posts
May 03 2011 12:07 GMT
#1684
On May 03 2011 21:04 HolyArrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2011 21:02 ChickenLips wrote:
On May 03 2011 20:33 zocktol wrote:
On May 03 2011 20:32 ChickenLips wrote:
'One of the best Terrans in Korea'

'Amazing TvZ player'

wow, I don't think Tasteless has ever said something more wrong, and everything he does is plugging sponsor / parrotting Artosis / saying wrong things about SC2 24/7.


Explain, why he is wrong please.


Go watch his games against BbongBbongPrime in the FXOpen, a completely atrocious Zerg. What he did (and still does) is just suicide groups of tank/marine in the first 20 minutes and then start adding medivacs and doing the same while putting PFs around the map so he doesn't die and has somewhere he spam his mules.

No multitasking (constantly getting caught off-guard and un-sieged like a diamond player (Artosis actually commented on this)),
Bad macro (1000 minerals at 10 minutes when all he has to manage is marine production that exceeds his income by 150%),
Spare drops.
Bad strategies (First game was insanely risky and banked on LosirA not making a baneling nest, or even going for baneling speed which completely rolls his mass marine strategy, second game blind cheese (this had the best execution out of the 3 actually) and the third game he didn't make any medivacs for the longest time.. this is not safe play. one proper engagement by Zerg (and not the half-assed shit LosirA did) and you get absolutely rolled by muta/ling/baneling)

This guy is by far not the best Terran and he also isn't good at TvZ. If you wanna go watch either of those things, go watch Mvp (amazing all-around), MKP(impressive micro), Bomber(very good macro and extremely solid decision-making), MMA(better execution than most of the top terrans and very good gamesense) or even KeeN(safe play, has solid game-plan and multi-tasking and good micro). Those Terrans actually surprised me with certain aspects of their play, they showed a profound understanding of the game and didn't brute-force their way through their TvZs like this noobie did.

I actually used to be a fan of sC because he went for long games, but what I've seen in the past 2 days is just disgusting and I don't want to see people going around regurgitating Tasteless' shallow thoughts about how impressive sC is. He's not.


Nice, basing your argument off of one series. Sometimes, great players play like shit. I could argue that NaDa is terrible by using your own twisted logic of cherry-picked facts, by citing NaDa vs. Kas or something.


No I actually based it off 6 TvZs in close succesion (he got a lot of practice) and they were all with the same latency as his opponent, as opposed to Kas vs NaDa.
❤Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ✿
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
May 03 2011 12:08 GMT
#1685
On May 03 2011 21:05 Blasterion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2011 21:03 Big J wrote:
On May 03 2011 20:58 grumpyone wrote:
On May 03 2011 20:44 greycubed wrote:
On May 03 2011 20:08 greycubed wrote:
On May 03 2011 20:06 Pajegetc wrote:
On May 03 2011 20:04 Zeon0 wrote:
ZvT still sucks


Not really, it's the most balanced match up.
Tournament results: http://i.imgur.com/eJge4.png
Same thing for Korea: http://i.imgur.com/wpuby.png


Wow. Seriously wondering about the current *vP metagames in Korea.



the sample only contains around 500 vP games at all (6months), the "current ones" would be around 50-100 games which isn't really saying a lot, because if 2-3 Protoss players that performed greatly before (like MC) lose some games and don't get to play more like in the current Code S, this means that Protoss suddenly misses 10-20 wins, if there is noone to take their places.
there is just not enough data in the korean version. (though I still like to see those stats)

Korean Tournament is a small sample size, so the graph is very volatile, as included in the OP of the thread that provided the graph


that's basically what I tried to write, just used more words because Im not a native speaker
but well, the thread contains this information, the post doesnt, that's why I wanted to point it out
Parcelleus
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia1662 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-03 12:11:30
May 03 2011 12:09 GMT
#1686
On May 03 2011 20:55 SxYSpAz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2011 20:53 Parcelleus wrote:
sC is easily one of the best terrans in Korea (and thus the world), sC has the RESULTS (Top4 in the GSL!) to prove it. When results rule , everything else is just QQ.

one tourney result isn't proof enough. it definitely gives him a ton of cred, but its not the most accurate thing possible... *cough* MVP *cough* MC *cough*


Who said it was only one tourney? he was Top 8 in the last GSL. Jinro is the only foreigner who can claim to of had better results.

You'd have to have your head in the sand not to see sC has proved to be one of the best Terrans in the world, and highly under-rated, until today.
*burp*
hagrin
Profile Joined May 2010
United States278 Posts
May 03 2011 12:09 GMT
#1687
Regarding winrates, and sort of offtopic, in Korean Grandmasters right now the Top 10 players with the highest win rates are almost all Terrans (11 of the top 12 are Terran). I honestly don't put much stock in the winrates of GMs in the US because after watching the competition Sheth and idra play on their streams, it's abundantly clear that the talent pool is much shallower on the US server.

I know laddering != tournament play, but do we think that there is some conclusion to be drawn from that type of racial dominance at the top?

To get back on topic, sC is #4 on the Korean ladder right now with the 11th best winrate. He's a top player despite what many of you wrote in this thread today.
Blasterion
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
China10272 Posts
May 03 2011 12:10 GMT
#1688
On May 03 2011 21:08 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2011 21:05 Blasterion wrote:
On May 03 2011 21:03 Big J wrote:
On May 03 2011 20:58 grumpyone wrote:
On May 03 2011 20:44 greycubed wrote:
On May 03 2011 20:08 greycubed wrote:
On May 03 2011 20:06 Pajegetc wrote:
On May 03 2011 20:04 Zeon0 wrote:
ZvT still sucks


Not really, it's the most balanced match up.
Tournament results: http://i.imgur.com/eJge4.png
Same thing for Korea: http://i.imgur.com/wpuby.png


Wow. Seriously wondering about the current *vP metagames in Korea.



the sample only contains around 500 vP games at all (6months), the "current ones" would be around 50-100 games which isn't really saying a lot, because if 2-3 Protoss players that performed greatly before (like MC) lose some games and don't get to play more like in the current Code S, this means that Protoss suddenly misses 10-20 wins, if there is noone to take their places.
there is just not enough data in the korean version. (though I still like to see those stats)

Korean Tournament is a small sample size, so the graph is very volatile, as included in the OP of the thread that provided the graph


that's basically what I tried to write, just used more words because Im not a native speaker
but well, the thread contains this information, the post doesnt, that's why I wanted to point it out

no prob, tried to give a brief summary to help you out, I don't type like this naturally, it came with 6 years of effort, (2 years of incapable of communicating, 1 year of illiteracry and 3 years of just being terrible with english) to get here >.<"
[TLNY]Mahjong Club Thread
Vipsanius
Profile Joined February 2011
Netherlands708 Posts
May 03 2011 12:11 GMT
#1689
I think LosirA had a bad day. sC isn't bad, and if he practices strong early pressure builds and LosirA had a bad day, yeah, you can lose. I rooted for LosirA but he didn't make it. Too bad.

All the people that are balance whining probably forgot that LosirA didn't play his greatest game. Yeah, stuff starts to get imbalanced fast if your opponent plays better than you.
T.Probe
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4 Posts
May 03 2011 12:11 GMT
#1690
On May 03 2011 21:04 FataLe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2011 21:01 T.Probe wrote:
On May 03 2011 20:52 FataLe wrote:
On May 03 2011 20:50 T.Probe wrote:
On May 03 2011 20:37 HyunA1 wrote:
Why is it that I sense 99% of QQ'ers in this thread play zerg?

If it's not cheese that you're crying about, it's something about your race. When a zerg wins, it's "perfect play" that outplays his opponent.


Its funny how people imply that the majority of people who play zerg are qq'ers by nature. The reason why so many zerg's qq must be because there must be an issue in balance with the race.

Or because they have a role model who shares his opinions freely.

Not that, that discredits what he's saying. But most of these Zergs are just sheep. Whether the game has become balanced or not. They'll blame a Zerg's loss on imbalance 'till their idol says it isn't so.

Sorry If I'm coming across strong :\


lol, your also implying that only certain types of people play zerg based on their personality which is obviously a wrong assumption.

Read my other post, it clears up what you're getting at.
Apologies :X

But even so. Personality could be a major factor in why someone plays/doesn't play a certain race. Just for arguments sake.


hmmm... sc1 zerg players do not complain about their race i think.
FataLe
Profile Joined November 2010
New Zealand4561 Posts
May 03 2011 12:13 GMT
#1691
On May 03 2011 21:11 T.Probe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2011 21:04 FataLe wrote:
On May 03 2011 21:01 T.Probe wrote:
On May 03 2011 20:52 FataLe wrote:
On May 03 2011 20:50 T.Probe wrote:
On May 03 2011 20:37 HyunA1 wrote:
Why is it that I sense 99% of QQ'ers in this thread play zerg?

If it's not cheese that you're crying about, it's something about your race. When a zerg wins, it's "perfect play" that outplays his opponent.


Its funny how people imply that the majority of people who play zerg are qq'ers by nature. The reason why so many zerg's qq must be because there must be an issue in balance with the race.

Or because they have a role model who shares his opinions freely.

Not that, that discredits what he's saying. But most of these Zergs are just sheep. Whether the game has become balanced or not. They'll blame a Zerg's loss on imbalance 'till their idol says it isn't so.

Sorry If I'm coming across strong :\


lol, your also implying that only certain types of people play zerg based on their personality which is obviously a wrong assumption.

Read my other post, it clears up what you're getting at.
Apologies :X

But even so. Personality could be a major factor in why someone plays/doesn't play a certain race. Just for arguments sake.


hmmm... sc1 zerg players do not complain about their race i think.

Hmm, yeah, you need to read my other post..
hi. big fan.
realstarcrafter
Profile Joined March 2011
92 Posts
May 03 2011 12:13 GMT
#1692
On May 03 2011 21:11 T.Probe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2011 21:04 FataLe wrote:
On May 03 2011 21:01 T.Probe wrote:
On May 03 2011 20:52 FataLe wrote:
On May 03 2011 20:50 T.Probe wrote:
On May 03 2011 20:37 HyunA1 wrote:
Why is it that I sense 99% of QQ'ers in this thread play zerg?

If it's not cheese that you're crying about, it's something about your race. When a zerg wins, it's "perfect play" that outplays his opponent.


Its funny how people imply that the majority of people who play zerg are qq'ers by nature. The reason why so many zerg's qq must be because there must be an issue in balance with the race.

Or because they have a role model who shares his opinions freely.

Not that, that discredits what he's saying. But most of these Zergs are just sheep. Whether the game has become balanced or not. They'll blame a Zerg's loss on imbalance 'till their idol says it isn't so.

Sorry If I'm coming across strong :\


lol, your also implying that only certain types of people play zerg based on their personality which is obviously a wrong assumption.

Read my other post, it clears up what you're getting at.
Apologies :X

But even so. Personality could be a major factor in why someone plays/doesn't play a certain race. Just for arguments sake.


hmmm... sc1 zerg players do not complain about their race i think.

I doubt he can make any more concrete reasonings out of that
FataLe
Profile Joined November 2010
New Zealand4561 Posts
May 03 2011 12:14 GMT
#1693
On May 03 2011 21:09 hagrin wrote:
Regarding winrates, and sort of offtopic, in Korean Grandmasters right now the Top 10 players with the highest win rates are almost all Terrans (11 of the top 12 are Terran). I honestly don't put much stock in the winrates of GMs in the US because after watching the competition Sheth and idra play on their streams, it's abundantly clear that the talent pool is much shallower on the US server.

I know laddering != tournament play, but do we think that there is some conclusion to be drawn from that type of racial dominance at the top?

To get back on topic, sC is #4 on the Korean ladder right now with the 11th best winrate. He's a top player despite what many of you wrote in this thread today.


I mean, sC can't be THAT bad if he's #4 on the Korean ladder. He may make many, many errors. But obviously not as fatal as his opponents..
hi. big fan.
Fyzar
Profile Joined January 2011
Netherlands8010 Posts
May 03 2011 12:15 GMT
#1694
On May 03 2011 20:49 SushilS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2011 20:38 Fyzar wrote:
On May 03 2011 20:35 ItsMeDomLee wrote:
I see a Nada Sangho finals.

SangHo is neeever going to get past InCa in a PvP.

Zzzz.... Do you know who Sangho is?
He was BW cream before switching over. He is gonna be one scary opponent anyday.

I do know who SangHo is, do you know InCa's PVP? No disrespect to SangHo but his PVP in SC2 is not as good as InCa's
It appears I have been chosen.
CubEdIn
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Romania5359 Posts
May 03 2011 12:15 GMT
#1695
On May 03 2011 20:48 FakeDeath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2011 20:39 CubEdIn wrote:
On May 03 2011 20:36 densha wrote:
On May 03 2011 20:33 zocktol wrote:
On May 03 2011 20:32 ChickenLips wrote:
'One of the best Terrans in Korea'

'Amazing TvZ player'

wow, I don't think Tasteless has ever said something more wrong, and everything he does is plugging sponsor / parrotting Artosis / saying wrong things about SC2 24/7.


Explain, why he is wrong please.


He won the first game with an all-in, the second with another all-in, and the third he predictably went marine/tank on a very marine/tank friendly map. Nothing "amazing", nothing there that makes him one of the best Terrans, etc. I honestly don't know what Tasteless was thinking saying that so many times.


So let me get this right, you think the rightful winner should be the guy who lost to "all-ins" twice in a row, and then failed to defend vs a very predictable strategy.

Yeah.. that sounds about right.


Did you even watch the match?scfou went a 8 RAX WITH REACTORS PUMPING MARINE like a madman all-in.How often do you see those kind of all-ins?Losira probably could not take the continuous pressure from sc.Game 2?That was just a build order win.Bunker rush+marines+12scvs vs 14 hatch PLUS CLOSE POSITION.Trust me man,its like so freaking difficult to hold that even as a pro.

Game3?Probably expected sc to win.Losira all-in probably out of frustration from being cheesed twice.


I agree. But that doesn't mean he should have won. What kind of dumb argument is "omg he went 8 reactor rax". So? That's why pro-gamers are pro-gamers. So that they can stop these kind of attacks. If you can't hold that off, bummer. If you can't hold a 2 rax bunker push, then don't go 15hatch. If you can't take the pressure and play good game three, then you SIMPLY DO NOT DESERVE TO WIN.

It's as clear as that. You can't possibly, under any circumstance, say that the guy who LOST 0 to 3 deserved the win. Come on. If he was better, he would have won. At least one game, lol.
Im not a n00b, I just play like one.
Samhax
Profile Joined August 2010
1054 Posts
May 03 2011 12:15 GMT
#1696
On May 03 2011 21:09 hagrin wrote:
Regarding winrates, and sort of offtopic, in Korean Grandmasters right now the Top 10 players with the highest win rates are almost all Terrans (11 of the top 12 are Terran). I honestly don't put much stock in the winrates of GMs in the US because after watching the competition Sheth and idra play on their streams, it's abundantly clear that the talent pool is much shallower on the US server.

I know laddering != tournament play, but do we think that there is some conclusion to be drawn from that type of racial dominance at the top?

To get back on topic, sC is #4 on the Korean ladder right now with the 11th best winrate. He's a top player despite what many of you wrote in this thread today.


it has been discussed many times. Terrans dominate the ladder because TvT is the least volatile mirror match up and the map pool favorise Terrans, you can't conclude anythin on balance with ladder.
FataLe
Profile Joined November 2010
New Zealand4561 Posts
May 03 2011 12:19 GMT
#1697
On May 03 2011 21:15 Samhax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2011 21:09 hagrin wrote:
Regarding winrates, and sort of offtopic, in Korean Grandmasters right now the Top 10 players with the highest win rates are almost all Terrans (11 of the top 12 are Terran). I honestly don't put much stock in the winrates of GMs in the US because after watching the competition Sheth and idra play on their streams, it's abundantly clear that the talent pool is much shallower on the US server.

I know laddering != tournament play, but do we think that there is some conclusion to be drawn from that type of racial dominance at the top?

To get back on topic, sC is #4 on the Korean ladder right now with the 11th best winrate. He's a top player despite what many of you wrote in this thread today.


it has been discussed many times. Terrans dominate the ladder because TvT is the least volatile mirror match up and the map pool favorise Terrans, you can't conclude anythin on balance with ladder.

Those stats exclude mirror match-ups. It's arguable. Probably Protoss favored if anything..
hi. big fan.
CScythe
Profile Joined June 2009
Canada810 Posts
May 03 2011 12:19 GMT
#1698
Instead of bitching about balance you should switch race or quit the game because whining here accomplishes nothing.
Daz89
Profile Joined March 2011
Australia41 Posts
May 03 2011 12:23 GMT
#1699
I don't see what all the fuss is about. I play Zerg and I wanted Losira to win, but he just had a pretty terrible night.

He 1 control grouped Infestors with his army in game 1, he didn't react properly to pretty standard bunker pressure (just for those that seem to think it is, pulling a few scvs is far from all in) in game 2 and in game 3 he was overly aggressive and too cost inefficient with his harass.

SC obviously knew what builds Losira was doing and planned around it. The only real sloppy play from SC was game 3 when he kept throwing away small amounts of marines and tanks, but he was that far ahead by that stage it didn't really affect the outcome. Give him some credit.
Butterz
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
688 Posts
May 03 2011 12:30 GMT
#1700
What a day.
Nada and ScSc Pawned !!!
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