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Its time to enjoy the matches, keep the whining out of this thread. GL HF!
Also, don't reply to the whining and ignore it: have faith in the mods, we read every post and act swiftly. You're making it worse. Enjoy! |
On April 18 2011 06:01 branflakes14 wrote:
I think Blizzard need to buff Fungal Growth more. The big red flashing sign over it that says "THIS ABILITY FUCKING OBLITERATES STALKER BALLS" isn't bright enough.
You do realize that fungal already annihilates Terran bio, right? Buffing it further would be insane.
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On April 18 2011 06:33 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2011 06:30 DonaldLee wrote:On April 18 2011 06:24 entropius wrote:On April 18 2011 06:21 Tegin wrote:On April 18 2011 06:14 Tracedragon wrote:On April 18 2011 06:07 Tegin wrote:
Pretty sure the better player won today, and that better player was CrunCher. That's why they played a best of 5. Anyone complaining because of the outcome need to realize CrunCher outplayed Mondragon, especially in the final game. It's sad to see no zergs left..maybe they need to pick their games up a bit to contend? So are you implying that all Zerg players are bad? :/ No. I'm saying they need to pick their game up. Kinda like what a pitcher would need to get a final out in the 9th inning, or a basketball player to hit a game winning shot. There are tons of great zerg players, but none of them are "finishing" in TSL3. So here's a baseball analogy. Suppose in baseball all players had to bat from the same side of the plate, and then suppose there is a season of baseball where left-handed batters have a league-wide batting average of .210, while right-handed batters have a league-wide batting average of .275, over all teams in the Major Leagues, over the whole ~150 game season. Should you say "Those lefties really need to step up their game"? What a terrible analogy, which I'm hoping was the point, but I'll run with it regardless. If lefties were indeed forced to bat right handed, then yes, they need to adapt to the situation they're given because fair or not, results are what matter, not circumstances. No....you'd ruin the game and force every left handed hitter out of the league and left handed pitchers would dominate. It would be beyond stupid.
That wasn't remotely what anyone was saying at all, good job.
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On April 18 2011 06:35 DonaldLee wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2011 06:33 Serpico wrote:On April 18 2011 06:30 DonaldLee wrote:On April 18 2011 06:24 entropius wrote:On April 18 2011 06:21 Tegin wrote:On April 18 2011 06:14 Tracedragon wrote:On April 18 2011 06:07 Tegin wrote:
Pretty sure the better player won today, and that better player was CrunCher. That's why they played a best of 5. Anyone complaining because of the outcome need to realize CrunCher outplayed Mondragon, especially in the final game. It's sad to see no zergs left..maybe they need to pick their games up a bit to contend? So are you implying that all Zerg players are bad? :/ No. I'm saying they need to pick their game up. Kinda like what a pitcher would need to get a final out in the 9th inning, or a basketball player to hit a game winning shot. There are tons of great zerg players, but none of them are "finishing" in TSL3. So here's a baseball analogy. Suppose in baseball all players had to bat from the same side of the plate, and then suppose there is a season of baseball where left-handed batters have a league-wide batting average of .210, while right-handed batters have a league-wide batting average of .275, over all teams in the Major Leagues, over the whole ~150 game season. Should you say "Those lefties really need to step up their game"? What a terrible analogy, which I'm hoping was the point, but I'll run with it regardless. If lefties were indeed forced to bat right handed, then yes, they need to adapt to the situation they're given because fair or not, results are what matter, not circumstances. No....you'd ruin the game and force every left handed hitter out of the league and left handed pitchers would dominate. It would be beyond stupid. That wasn't remotely what anyone was saying at all, good job.
The point is you cant just change things and always tell people to deal with it. Sometimes you have to be responsible for actually making good changes and making sure things are fair.
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On April 18 2011 06:33 Humbuuzio wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2011 06:30 gnutz wrote:On April 18 2011 06:29 Humbuuzio wrote:On April 18 2011 06:25 Fungal Growth wrote:
Congrats to Cruncher for the win!
Lot's of mistakes by Mondragon though the last game...
Mutas weren't aggressive enough.
He didn't do enough to kill the protoss 3rd base...this is Idra's ZvP 101...at all cost zerg has to kill the protoss'es 3rd . Forget the attacks on the main...you'll be mostly attacking a ghost town with buildings tanking the damage. At the 18 minute mark is on average when toss mines out his main. If Zerg can block the 3rd at the 18 minute mark, toss is down to 1 base which should be easy win for zerg.
Infesters are AMAZING vs air units...he should have built them.
Cruncher had not been building colossi...this is the green light to go mass hydra. Colossi are the ONLY counter to hydras (storms/archons/mass chargelots are nice but don't cut it). Hydras are also amazing vs stalkers...which Cruncher had lots of.
Where were Mondragon's mineral sink units? Zerglings are amazing vs stalkers (especially when there are no colossi on the field) and are amazing at attacking a 3-4 base toss that is spread too thin. If Dragon isn't going to spend minerals on attacking mineral units...then why get so many drones and why not attack MUCH sooner?
People are saying the phoenix countered the mutas...this is not the case and the descision to make the mutas was actually a good thing. What really did in the Mutas were the cannons and the storms...phoenix mostly avoided direct confrontations and just mopped up what was left of the mutas. Bottom line...mutas had to be more aggressive before blink/storm/ht charging completes and the mutas need to concentrate on the expansions...not the main.
I thought Cruncher did a great job, but his decision to build voids before phoenix was a mistake...had the phoenix been built first they would have had enough energy to on a couple of situations kill additional queens with the help of the voids. Again...best plan is to build about 1 phoenix for each queen you expect to see then mass voids. Phoenix block queens, voids kill queens, voids kill everything else and you win the game. It's pretty useless to make zerglings vs high templar. 1 storm can easily kill 15 supply of lings in an instant. And your own army if it is surrounded Well, mass lings usually clump up pretty nicely for storm and a few lings never did anything vs a protoss ball. You don't have to storm your own units, just storm around them.
Like always, you're supposed to attack from multiple directions. Lings would be good in that situation if they were upgraded, but they were not.
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Sometimes these topics really saddens me. 
I understand that a lot of people look at SC2 as it is not only game, I also understand that people are greatly passionate about (e)sports, also that Mondragon was last Zerg still competing in TSL and stuff but you people are reflecting that on so bad mannered way.
There are some balance issues, you can't deny that, which is normal for young competitive game but reading this topic I have feeling I could, as newb, just pick Protoss, go and win 50 games straight against Zerg. Also you act and sound like Zerg players never achieved anything in SC2, also untrue.
I also cheered for Mondragon, I also didn't like cannon rush tactic, I also got pretty annoyed by outcome of some matches but that's the game, you play to win and you should do everything (legit) to achieve your victory - these guys are professional gamers and sometimes you need to do stuff which aint so compelling to audience; and people are forgetting that all the time.
Amount of shitstorm directed to CrunCher, even if he did show some amazing game(s), is really disrespectful to every pro gamer out there. For instance, last game was good and entertaining and everyone who says different is just too much biased to be able to enjoy good SC2 show.
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By reading the posts on this thread i'm happy i didn't see the games because i would get so banned lol.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On April 18 2011 06:35 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2011 06:35 DonaldLee wrote:On April 18 2011 06:33 Serpico wrote:On April 18 2011 06:30 DonaldLee wrote:On April 18 2011 06:24 entropius wrote:On April 18 2011 06:21 Tegin wrote:On April 18 2011 06:14 Tracedragon wrote:On April 18 2011 06:07 Tegin wrote:
Pretty sure the better player won today, and that better player was CrunCher. That's why they played a best of 5. Anyone complaining because of the outcome need to realize CrunCher outplayed Mondragon, especially in the final game. It's sad to see no zergs left..maybe they need to pick their games up a bit to contend? So are you implying that all Zerg players are bad? :/ No. I'm saying they need to pick their game up. Kinda like what a pitcher would need to get a final out in the 9th inning, or a basketball player to hit a game winning shot. There are tons of great zerg players, but none of them are "finishing" in TSL3. So here's a baseball analogy. Suppose in baseball all players had to bat from the same side of the plate, and then suppose there is a season of baseball where left-handed batters have a league-wide batting average of .210, while right-handed batters have a league-wide batting average of .275, over all teams in the Major Leagues, over the whole ~150 game season. Should you say "Those lefties really need to step up their game"? What a terrible analogy, which I'm hoping was the point, but I'll run with it regardless. If lefties were indeed forced to bat right handed, then yes, they need to adapt to the situation they're given because fair or not, results are what matter, not circumstances. No....you'd ruin the game and force every left handed hitter out of the league and left handed pitchers would dominate. It would be beyond stupid. That wasn't remotely what anyone was saying at all, good job. The point is you cant just change things and always tell people to deal with it. Sometimes you have to be responsible for actually making good changes and making sure things are fair. You get get it?
And I'm saying you can't count on changes happening to make things fair.
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On April 18 2011 06:36 DonaldLee wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2011 06:35 Serpico wrote:On April 18 2011 06:35 DonaldLee wrote:On April 18 2011 06:33 Serpico wrote:On April 18 2011 06:30 DonaldLee wrote:On April 18 2011 06:24 entropius wrote:On April 18 2011 06:21 Tegin wrote:On April 18 2011 06:14 Tracedragon wrote:On April 18 2011 06:07 Tegin wrote:
Pretty sure the better player won today, and that better player was CrunCher. That's why they played a best of 5. Anyone complaining because of the outcome need to realize CrunCher outplayed Mondragon, especially in the final game. It's sad to see no zergs left..maybe they need to pick their games up a bit to contend? So are you implying that all Zerg players are bad? :/ No. I'm saying they need to pick their game up. Kinda like what a pitcher would need to get a final out in the 9th inning, or a basketball player to hit a game winning shot. There are tons of great zerg players, but none of them are "finishing" in TSL3. So here's a baseball analogy. Suppose in baseball all players had to bat from the same side of the plate, and then suppose there is a season of baseball where left-handed batters have a league-wide batting average of .210, while right-handed batters have a league-wide batting average of .275, over all teams in the Major Leagues, over the whole ~150 game season. Should you say "Those lefties really need to step up their game"? What a terrible analogy, which I'm hoping was the point, but I'll run with it regardless. If lefties were indeed forced to bat right handed, then yes, they need to adapt to the situation they're given because fair or not, results are what matter, not circumstances. No....you'd ruin the game and force every left handed hitter out of the league and left handed pitchers would dominate. It would be beyond stupid. That wasn't remotely what anyone was saying at all, good job. The point is you cant just change things and always tell people to deal with it. Sometimes you have to be responsible for actually making good changes and making sure things are fair. You get get it? And I'm saying you can't count on changes happening to make things fair.
That doesnt mean you'll be able to ever adapt.
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On April 18 2011 06:34 forsooth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2011 06:01 branflakes14 wrote:
I think Blizzard need to buff Fungal Growth more. The big red flashing sign over it that says "THIS ABILITY FUCKING OBLITERATES STALKER BALLS" isn't bright enough. You do realize that fungal already annihilates Terran bio, right? Buffing it further would be insane.
He was kidding, making the point that fungal > stalker balls yet Zergs still refuse to build infestors. Apparently they need things to be REALLY obvious.
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On April 18 2011 06:36 DonaldLee wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2011 06:35 Serpico wrote:On April 18 2011 06:35 DonaldLee wrote:On April 18 2011 06:33 Serpico wrote:On April 18 2011 06:30 DonaldLee wrote:On April 18 2011 06:24 entropius wrote:On April 18 2011 06:21 Tegin wrote:On April 18 2011 06:14 Tracedragon wrote:On April 18 2011 06:07 Tegin wrote:
Pretty sure the better player won today, and that better player was CrunCher. That's why they played a best of 5. Anyone complaining because of the outcome need to realize CrunCher outplayed Mondragon, especially in the final game. It's sad to see no zergs left..maybe they need to pick their games up a bit to contend? So are you implying that all Zerg players are bad? :/ No. I'm saying they need to pick their game up. Kinda like what a pitcher would need to get a final out in the 9th inning, or a basketball player to hit a game winning shot. There are tons of great zerg players, but none of them are "finishing" in TSL3. So here's a baseball analogy. Suppose in baseball all players had to bat from the same side of the plate, and then suppose there is a season of baseball where left-handed batters have a league-wide batting average of .210, while right-handed batters have a league-wide batting average of .275, over all teams in the Major Leagues, over the whole ~150 game season. Should you say "Those lefties really need to step up their game"? What a terrible analogy, which I'm hoping was the point, but I'll run with it regardless. If lefties were indeed forced to bat right handed, then yes, they need to adapt to the situation they're given because fair or not, results are what matter, not circumstances. No....you'd ruin the game and force every left handed hitter out of the league and left handed pitchers would dominate. It would be beyond stupid. That wasn't remotely what anyone was saying at all, good job. The point is you cant just change things and always tell people to deal with it. Sometimes you have to be responsible for actually making good changes and making sure things are fair. You get get it? And I'm saying you can't count on changes happening to make things fair.
So how are things unfair? I believe they played a BO5 on maps that were on the tournament pool with CrunCher winning 3-1 without using any hacks/cheats.
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On April 18 2011 06:38 Tegin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2011 06:36 DonaldLee wrote:On April 18 2011 06:35 Serpico wrote:On April 18 2011 06:35 DonaldLee wrote:On April 18 2011 06:33 Serpico wrote:On April 18 2011 06:30 DonaldLee wrote:On April 18 2011 06:24 entropius wrote:On April 18 2011 06:21 Tegin wrote:On April 18 2011 06:14 Tracedragon wrote:On April 18 2011 06:07 Tegin wrote:
Pretty sure the better player won today, and that better player was CrunCher. That's why they played a best of 5. Anyone complaining because of the outcome need to realize CrunCher outplayed Mondragon, especially in the final game. It's sad to see no zergs left..maybe they need to pick their games up a bit to contend? So are you implying that all Zerg players are bad? :/ No. I'm saying they need to pick their game up. Kinda like what a pitcher would need to get a final out in the 9th inning, or a basketball player to hit a game winning shot. There are tons of great zerg players, but none of them are "finishing" in TSL3. So here's a baseball analogy. Suppose in baseball all players had to bat from the same side of the plate, and then suppose there is a season of baseball where left-handed batters have a league-wide batting average of .210, while right-handed batters have a league-wide batting average of .275, over all teams in the Major Leagues, over the whole ~150 game season. Should you say "Those lefties really need to step up their game"? What a terrible analogy, which I'm hoping was the point, but I'll run with it regardless. If lefties were indeed forced to bat right handed, then yes, they need to adapt to the situation they're given because fair or not, results are what matter, not circumstances. No....you'd ruin the game and force every left handed hitter out of the league and left handed pitchers would dominate. It would be beyond stupid. That wasn't remotely what anyone was saying at all, good job. The point is you cant just change things and always tell people to deal with it. Sometimes you have to be responsible for actually making good changes and making sure things are fair. You get get it? And I'm saying you can't count on changes happening to make things fair. So how are things unfair? I believe they played a BO5 on maps that were on the tournament pool with CrunCher winning 3-1 without using any hacks/cheats.
Why are people so literal?
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Waah. Zerg is underpowered. When Zergs get horribly outplayed they lose. Waah.
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Amidst all this sadness that Mondragon lost, lets just remember that Boxer is in the RO8! After that amazing series against Sen its a pity we don't get to see anymore TvZ, but he plays Hasu in a hopefully amazing series.
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On April 18 2011 06:32 SkelA wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2011 06:18 OrangeSoda wrote:On April 18 2011 06:12 SkelA wrote:
Seriosly Im so pissed because I feel like all top zerg player are stupid nobrainers like their race.... HELLO infestor counter blink stalkers, mass phoenix voidrays and are awesome against everything toss have(ok not against HT). Why noone makes em !?!?!
game 1 = Cruncher played terrible , Mondi played awesome.
game 2 = Cruncher played good wining because of imba map and invincible combo, Mondi played awesome but its just not enough.
game 3 = Cruncher wins with cheese thats easy to defend, Mondi reacts in the worst possible way.
game 4 = Both playing awesome but Cruncher was so cost effective that wins even with Mondi massive eco advantage. Overall Cruncher is the superior player today ( or superior race?? )
Cruncher played decent today if we dont count game 1. Clearly deserved this win. GG's !! because all the people that happen to play zerg are nobrainers Yep preety much. Do you see any zerg wining any big tournaments or going even deep into tournaments lately? Well I havent. Obviosly they are doing something wrong or zvp is imbalanced. I dont think zvp is imbalanced so they are playing zvp the wrong way but I havent played even played SC2 so I might be wrong. Zergs need to pick up their game and start experimenting with other styles that doesnt revolve just on mass roach hydra corruptors. The one zerg I was impressed is Spanishwa. That guy is awesome.
I see now the general type of players that think everything is going totally fine.
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On April 18 2011 06:32 entropius wrote:Show nested quote +
Do you really want it to get to the point where going into a tournament you already know the odds will always be 3-2 in favor of Z in PvZ, 3-1 in TvP?
I want it to get to the point where the odds are even.
the odds should be tried to get even without Blizzard touching the game first.
There are so many possible strategies, that could work and needs to be tested.
Though it might be a little bit harder to create stable builds for Zerg since their Mechanics are much more versatile that the other races, those Strategies do exist.
Someone just has to find and refine them.
Blizzard should be only the last angle to take action if nothing else works.
The last patch is quite fresh and still isn't fully fleshed out.
But since then alot of Infestors build have popped out (at least for me on ladder) that are quite strong against Protoss. (and i have a huge problem to deal with them)
perfection of builds needs time.
This not a statement of something is imbalanced or not, but so many people cry imba before looking if they did mistakes that made them lost the game and not sheer imbaness.
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On April 18 2011 06:32 Yaotzin wrote:
Why Zerg hardly ever builds infestors is beyond me. And when they do they a-move them into a deathball.
QFT
this makes me soo sad in the last 2 weeks I have seen sooooo many matches of my fellow zerg dying to balls of blik-stalkers they couldnt catch... 2-3 fungals solve that shit in no time.. rewatch the last mondi game and think how it would have looked with "a", ONE, UNO infestor out on the field, that phoenix voidray shit would have died to the queens in no time
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On April 18 2011 06:29 Humbuuzio wrote:
It's pretty useless to make zerglings vs high templar. 1 storm can easily kill 15 supply of lings in an instant.
Respectfully disagree... If the zerglings are used as hit and run units (say to pester bases 3-5) then they will easily outrun the HT's which are very slow.
In the open zerglings are actually spread out quite a bit when on the move and don't really clump up for storm to be that effective.
In close quarter combat the lings will be on top of your units which means storms = friendly fire.
Also lings when they attack always try to surround because they are melee units which means you have a stretched out smiley face of lings attacking your army which really lacks the density for storm to be effective.
I've seen Idra use lings very effectively to shutdown toss expansions in late game vs toss and think it can be pretty effective.
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Mondragon has said that he practices an average of three hours a day... I don't see why anyone would expect him to win a bo5 against someone like cruncher who plays sc2 full time.
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What I learned today...
...SC2 is far from balanced
...SC2 matchups are far far away from being figured out
...Mondi is a beastly talent who just needs to practice more (tell me something new ;-)
Is it only my very limited SC2 experience or are big battle blob clashes visually hard to follow (explosions and effects all over the place) compared to SC1?
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Why most people understand the cheese of MC vs Whitera, but everyone hates the cheese from Cruncher.
Everybody is just looking for more reasons to dislike Cruncher
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