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On April 11 2011 06:25 SolidusR wrote:
Wow.. there's a lot of EU aggression towards USA in the latter pages here. Pretty sad really. So what, we don't rabidly follow every tournament ever and that makes us less of SC fans? Since we don't know Kas before we saw some recent games that means that we need to "shut our mouths"? Some of the vitriol in here really makes me never want to post on TL, if this is the kind of conversation I can expect to have. Very, very disappointed.
Honestly I feel that ur turning it the other way around.
NA pleople are flaming Kas for being "unkown" and that its just lag and stuff. Europeans are just protecting Kas. Instead of saying "oww Kas is so unkown"nowbody knows him" you could also ask "who is this guy, please inform me". Or google is a mans best friend.
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
On April 11 2011 06:03 Hot_Bid wrote:
People would know Kas better if he didn't just boss his way into the TSL in the first qualifier :/
So true. The example with Haypro seems to stand strong as well, in showing people's bias. Apparently he had the same lag as the Koreans (being in Korea) and yet no one batted an eyelid when he lost his really close set. Yet the moment anyone Korean looses people look for excuses.
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On April 11 2011 06:21 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 06:20 CanucksJC wrote:On April 11 2011 06:16 zeru wrote:On April 11 2011 06:15 CanucksJC wrote:On April 11 2011 06:03 Numy wrote:On April 11 2011 05:54 CanucksJC wrote:
Also, if Kas was THAT good, there is no reason why we shouldn't know about it. There is a REASON why some are more famous and some are more underground. If the guy was good, you'd see people praising this guy and we wouldn't call this an 'upset'. But the fact is, people don't really know him, period. You can't get around that IMO and I think people are being a little too defensive of Kas. :s I didn't really want to enter this argument but this logic is beyond me. You are saying that known players must be more skillful than "unknown" players merely because they are known and skill has everything to do with being known? People do know him. Everyone in Europe should know him. I can hardly care about lag but your last paragraph is just wow. Players don't magically just become known if they are good. They have to get their name out there. Naniwa has been known as one of the top EU Toss for a few months now but it takes a MLG win for people not in the loop to actually know of him and know how good he is. Kas/Thorzain are both testaments to the lack of knowledge truly out there. Stop pretending ignorance is some excusable factor that only happens because things are always as we assume they are. I just wanted to bring up a point but now you're just being a tool. I'm just saying, where I live, people don't really know him (THIS IS RELATIVE, SAY COMPARED TO JINRO OR HUK). And are you fucking kidding me, I tried not to flame anyone, but ur lack of intelligence and comprehension is beyond me. If you're good, you win major tournaments, people know you. Maybe Kas was just sick good, but he didn't win anything major prior, That's not the point. See, people like Naniwa are more known, because 1. he's good 2. cuz he won a major tournament. Do you know how people win major tournaments? They're good. So if Kas was just as good as Naniwa, why isn't he more exposed? I'm just saying there must be a reason why people are calling this an upset -_- Who's calling this an upset? I'm assuming at least 50 pages of people from all the argument I happened to walk into..? Also apparently the SotG crew? sotg crew pretty much only watch gsl/tsl and are uninformed about the euro scene.
I don't really blame them honestly. The 4 main guys are all NA players and the two sc2 pros (incontrol and tyler) are protoss. We all have a tendency to zero in more on players of our own race for various reasons. SOTG doesn't really have a resident terran player, so guys like Kas fall under the radar. (until today)
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On April 11 2011 06:26 vdale wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 06:15 CanucksJC wrote:On April 11 2011 06:03 Numy wrote:On April 11 2011 05:54 CanucksJC wrote:
Also, if Kas was THAT good, there is no reason why we shouldn't know about it. There is a REASON why some are more famous and some are more underground. If the guy was good, you'd see people praising this guy and we wouldn't call this an 'upset'. But the fact is, people don't really know him, period. You can't get around that IMO and I think people are being a little too defensive of Kas. :s I didn't really want to enter this argument but this logic is beyond me. You are saying that known players must be more skillful than "unknown" players merely because they are known and skill has everything to do with being known? People do know him. Everyone in Europe should know him. I can hardly care about lag but your last paragraph is just wow. Players don't magically just become known if they are good. They have to get their name out there. Naniwa has been known as one of the top EU Toss for a few months now but it takes a MLG win for people not in the loop to actually know of him and know how good he is. Kas/Thorzain are both testaments to the lack of knowledge truly out there. Stop pretending ignorance is some excusable factor that only happens because things are always as we assume they are. I just wanted to bring up a point but now you're just being a tool. I'm just saying, where I live, people don't really know him (THIS IS RELATIVE, SAY COMPARED TO JINRO OR HUK). And are you fucking kidding me, I tried not to flame anyone, but ur lack of intelligence and comprehension is beyond me. If you're good, you win major tournaments, people know you. Maybe Kas was just sick good, but he didn't win anything major prior, That's not the point. See, people like Naniwa are more known, because 1. he's good 2. cuz he won a major tournament. Do you know how people win major tournaments? They're good. So if Kas was just as good as Naniwa, why isn't he more exposed? I'm just saying there must be a reason why people are calling this an upset -_- Naniwa said in an Interview 1 month ago, that Kas is the best player in Europe (at that time). Kas is winning online tournaments left and right: In the last 7 days it was the go4sc2 monthly final (his second in a row), the gcpl individual cup and maybe another -> 2 * 500$ pricemoney for go4sc2 and gcpl.Some reasons why he is unknown to many people: 1) he isn't a community person 2) he isn't an (North-)American 3) he has WC3 and not BW background 4) he doesn't play many offline-tournaments (lost to Morrow in Assembly, but TvZ is by far his weakest matchup and Morrow placed second)
Those tournaments didn't get much attention/coverage. Kas has done nothing but play in minor tournaments, and has won absolutely NOTHING of significance up until this TSL match. There is absolutely nothing wrong with people not knowing who he is.
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apparently the lag in the oGs house is not that big and haypro live in the oGs house.
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Well I have already, I've mentioned that this Kas guy is awesome and I can't wait to see more of this stuff. Maybe I'm reading the wrong posts, but I'm seeing a lot more anger about our lack of knowledge than kind attempts at informing us as to what we've been missing. But yeah maybe people are being dicks on this side of the pond too, either way if anyone said Kas didn't deserve his wins today they are an idiot.
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Why all this hate for SotG? They're NA players who obviously aren't as knowledgable about the EU scene and they're rabid Nada fanboys. People take that show way too seriously.
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United Kingdom38257 Posts
On April 11 2011 06:24 Klive5ive wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 06:20 MrCon wrote:Kas has the record peak ELO, far, far ahead (50 points) of the 2nd. His TLPD entry speaks for itself 1v1 Record: All: 338-177 (65.63%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W W W W L L L W W W | View Games vT: 154-92 (62.60%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W W W W W W W W W W | View Games vZ: 100-41 (70.92%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W L W W L W W W W W | View Games vP: 84-44 (65.63%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): L L L W L L L L L L | View Games His vP is lacking, but the TLPD is missing the individual GCPL league he just won against 2 protosses I think. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/individual-leagues#tblt-4161-1-default-0-kas His recent vP doesn't bode well for his next match.
He beat both Hasu and Axslav to win the GCPL individual tournament.
He's still got a fairly solid TvP, I'd not be surprised if his recent form has slipped in the match up because he had to concentrate on TvZ (which despite stats he does feel is his weaker match up) and TvT in his first two TSL rounds.
I'd expect him to look sharp vs Adel.
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Braavos36399 Posts
On April 11 2011 06:30 phisku wrote:
apparently the lag in the oGs house is not that big and haypro live in the oGs house.
Perhaps, but we offered every Korean the ability to play from the oGs house if they wished.
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Its hard to compare koreans to europeans because they never compete with each other. All you EU kids need to calm down and stop being so sensitive. Even an informed person who isn't blinded by nationalistic pride or fandom would see Nada as the Favorite because of his success at the hardest tournament in SC2 right now. You guys can bring up ladder stats for Kas and everything (which are impressive), but since we don't have stats from the same ladder for Nada, they are pretty irrelevant.
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United States13896 Posts
On April 11 2011 06:23 imareaver3 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 06:20 MrCon wrote:Kas has the record peak ELO, far, far ahead (50 points) of the 2nd. His TLPD entry speaks for itself 1v1 Record: All: 338-177 (65.63%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W W W W L L L W W W | View Games vT: 154-92 (62.60%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W W W W W W W W W W | View Games vZ: 100-41 (70.92%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W L W W L W W W W W | View Games vP: 84-44 (65.63%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): L L L W L L L L L L | View Games His vP is lacking, but the TLPD is missing the individual GCPL league he just won against 2 protosses I think. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/individual-leagues#tblt-4161-1-default-0-kas Holy.... How does he get so many games?
Kas plays in nearly every single European online cup event week in and week out. If you look at his TLPD achievements there is hardly a single week (not one!) since like last October where he hasn't won an online cup/tournament. And again that's a difference that NA players may not take into account. On EU the top players are mostly all there in those cups. Its different for NA online cups as most of the top dogs don't compete for the relatively small money prize pools. But in these cups Kas is beating impressive opponents.
The only other Terrans outside of Korea that stand up to Kas' TvT are GoOdy and BRAT_OK. Quite simply noone else is close to his level of play.
edit: read what players say about these huge 500 man online open events, how hard it is to beast through all those rounds and never succumb to cheese, slip behind by playing too defensively, etc. How hard it can be to win one tournament like the TL Opens. Kas wins practically one or more of these tournaments every single week. These events get less attention, but the competitors are the same. The top EU players are all there and Kas consistently wins.
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On April 11 2011 06:26 FinBenton wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 05:58 Chill wrote:On April 11 2011 05:55 cheesemaster wrote:
Okay my question to people that dont think lag was a factor at all in any of the KR vs US/EU games is, why are all these Korean players underperfoming in every single game then, aside from MC so far every single game koreans have made silly mistakes that you would never see them make in a LAN setting or a GSL, like literally never. So what is your reasoning for them underperfoming? Regardless of weather they are used to the opposing players play style or not it shouldnt mean that they get supply blocked mis micro etc etc so often when we see them play at such a high caliber at Lan settings like the gsl. How did MC micro his Zealot perfectly in game 1 vs Ciara? How did Nada micro his Banshee perfectly against TLO? . Its not like huge LAG is there in every game.
Yea or at every second during a game, mentioning 2 moments where someone did something well vs the dozens of questionable moments doesnt really mean squat. I love how so many people treat lag like its a stable entity, in fact almost everyone i hear talking about lag or lack of lag treats it like its constant, like if there was lag at this moment then there was lag in EVERY game in KR VS EU, or if there wasnt lag during these specific moments that means there never was any lag for these players. I think people need to have a better understanding about how latency works before they make such general statements or use precise moments to generalise how the latency was for a whole game.
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On April 11 2011 06:25 SolidusR wrote:
Wow.. there's a lot of EU aggression towards USA in the latter pages here. Pretty sad really. So what, we don't rabidly follow every tournament ever and that makes us less of SC fans? Since we don't know Kas before we saw some recent games that means that we need to "shut our mouths"? Some of the vitriol in here really makes me never want to post on TL, if this is the kind of conversation I can expect to have. Very, very disappointed.
You're basically looking at one side of the coin. Look back a few more pages and you'll see that the majority of posters claiming, "lag! Nada would never lose a TvT to this unknown guy!" are from NA....you're not getting victimized here. Even though I agree some posters are borderline fanatical with their EU pride.
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I wouldn't expect sotg to know much about the EU scene. Just like I will admit i am pretty ignorant about what's going on in the EU scene.
OT: Congrats to Kas. I am sad that qxc lost though  .
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On April 11 2011 06:24 Klive5ive wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 06:20 MrCon wrote:Kas has the record peak ELO, far, far ahead (50 points) of the 2nd. His TLPD entry speaks for itself 1v1 Record: All: 338-177 (65.63%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W W W W L L L W W W | View Games vT: 154-92 (62.60%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W W W W W W W W W W | View Games vZ: 100-41 (70.92%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W L W W L W W W W W | View Games vP: 84-44 (65.63%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): L L L W L L L L L L | View Games His vP is lacking, but the TLPD is missing the individual GCPL league he just won against 2 protosses I think. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/individual-leagues#tblt-4161-1-default-0-kas His recent vP doesn't bode well for his next match.
I actually think Adel's play has been shown enough for Kas to find some critical flaws to it, and he can just go to white ra or someone similiar and tell them to play exactly the way Adel has been playing, he didn't change the way he plays at all, if he keeps on playing the same way I feel like Kas will just abuse the hell out of him and 3:0 him.
Then again, he is a pretty good player.
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Kas is a sick beast, and so is ThorzaiN i wasnt surprised at all by their results in the RO16 knowing how hard they worked.
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On April 11 2011 06:20 CanucksJC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 06:16 zeru wrote:On April 11 2011 06:15 CanucksJC wrote:On April 11 2011 06:03 Numy wrote:On April 11 2011 05:54 CanucksJC wrote:
Also, if Kas was THAT good, there is no reason why we shouldn't know about it. There is a REASON why some are more famous and some are more underground. If the guy was good, you'd see people praising this guy and we wouldn't call this an 'upset'. But the fact is, people don't really know him, period. You can't get around that IMO and I think people are being a little too defensive of Kas. :s I didn't really want to enter this argument but this logic is beyond me. You are saying that known players must be more skillful than "unknown" players merely because they are known and skill has everything to do with being known? People do know him. Everyone in Europe should know him. I can hardly care about lag but your last paragraph is just wow. Players don't magically just become known if they are good. They have to get their name out there. Naniwa has been known as one of the top EU Toss for a few months now but it takes a MLG win for people not in the loop to actually know of him and know how good he is. Kas/Thorzain are both testaments to the lack of knowledge truly out there. Stop pretending ignorance is some excusable factor that only happens because things are always as we assume they are. I just wanted to bring up a point but now you're just being a tool. I'm just saying, where I live, people don't really know him (THIS IS RELATIVE, SAY COMPARED TO JINRO OR HUK). And are you fucking kidding me, I tried not to flame anyone, but ur lack of intelligence and comprehension is beyond me. If you're good, you win major tournaments, people know you. Maybe Kas was just sick good, but he didn't win anything major prior, That's not the point. See, people like Naniwa are more known, because 1. he's good 2. cuz he won a major tournament. Do you know how people win major tournaments? They're good. So if Kas was just as good as Naniwa, why isn't he more exposed? I'm just saying there must be a reason why people are calling this an upset -_- Who's calling this an upset? I'm assuming at least 50 pages of people from all the argument I happened to walk into..? Also apparently the SotG crew?
The people posting in this thread calling it an upset are probably the same people who are ignorant of the EU scene and do not follow the tourneys that Kas has won. If you've actually watched Kas play and watch Nada's recent performance in GSL, you should know that this was ABSOLUTELY not an upset. You are not qualified to call something an upset if you grossly underestimate a player simply because you are ignorant of his accomplishments. If Kas was some randy who never won anything and beat Nada, then yes, that would definitely be an upset.
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On April 11 2011 06:35 YoanM wrote:
Kas is a sick beast, and so is ThorzaiN i wasnt surprised at all by their results in the RO16 knowing how hard they worked.
I'm really excited about these two guys because they both had awesome terran play styles
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On April 11 2011 06:26 Lanker wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 06:22 vrok wrote:On April 11 2011 06:20 CanucksJC wrote:On April 11 2011 06:16 zeru wrote:On April 11 2011 06:15 CanucksJC wrote:On April 11 2011 06:03 Numy wrote:On April 11 2011 05:54 CanucksJC wrote:
Also, if Kas was THAT good, there is no reason why we shouldn't know about it. There is a REASON why some are more famous and some are more underground. If the guy was good, you'd see people praising this guy and we wouldn't call this an 'upset'. But the fact is, people don't really know him, period. You can't get around that IMO and I think people are being a little too defensive of Kas. :s I didn't really want to enter this argument but this logic is beyond me. You are saying that known players must be more skillful than "unknown" players merely because they are known and skill has everything to do with being known? People do know him. Everyone in Europe should know him. I can hardly care about lag but your last paragraph is just wow. Players don't magically just become known if they are good. They have to get their name out there. Naniwa has been known as one of the top EU Toss for a few months now but it takes a MLG win for people not in the loop to actually know of him and know how good he is. Kas/Thorzain are both testaments to the lack of knowledge truly out there. Stop pretending ignorance is some excusable factor that only happens because things are always as we assume they are. I just wanted to bring up a point but now you're just being a tool. I'm just saying, where I live, people don't really know him (THIS IS RELATIVE, SAY COMPARED TO JINRO OR HUK). And are you fucking kidding me, I tried not to flame anyone, but ur lack of intelligence and comprehension is beyond me. If you're good, you win major tournaments, people know you. Maybe Kas was just sick good, but he didn't win anything major prior, That's not the point. See, people like Naniwa are more known, because 1. he's good 2. cuz he won a major tournament. Do you know how people win major tournaments? They're good. So if Kas was just as good as Naniwa, why isn't he more exposed? I'm just saying there must be a reason why people are calling this an upset -_- Who's calling this an upset? I'm assuming at least 50 pages of people from all the argument I happened to walk into..? Also apparently the SotG crew? People who don't actually follow the SC2 pro scene very much are irrelevant. What the SotG crew says has little relevance. To anything. They don't know what they're talking about for most of the time. They're not hardcore pro scene followers. Look at the first 5 pages or so of this thread. End of discussion really. If you follow the pro scene you'd know about Kas. It's that simple. How do they not know what they're talking about? I'm pretty sure Idra, Tyler and Day9 know about 50x more than you about starcraft 2, seeing as it is their profession.
Playing the game and following the pro scene of the game are two extremely different things. SotG is an entertainment show, people shouldn't treat it as the gospel truth.
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Well.. I think it's an upset not because of the fact that NaDa lost to Kas, but because of the way he lost. NaDa played quite sloppily for all three games and didn't put up much of a fight, while Kas just steamrolled him.
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EPT
