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On April 11 2011 06:15 CanucksJC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 06:03 Numy wrote:On April 11 2011 05:54 CanucksJC wrote:
Also, if Kas was THAT good, there is no reason why we shouldn't know about it. There is a REASON why some are more famous and some are more underground. If the guy was good, you'd see people praising this guy and we wouldn't call this an 'upset'. But the fact is, people don't really know him, period. You can't get around that IMO and I think people are being a little too defensive of Kas. :s I didn't really want to enter this argument but this logic is beyond me. You are saying that known players must be more skillful than "unknown" players merely because they are known and skill has everything to do with being known? People do know him. Everyone in Europe should know him. I can hardly care about lag but your last paragraph is just wow. Players don't magically just become known if they are good. They have to get their name out there. Naniwa has been known as one of the top EU Toss for a few months now but it takes a MLG win for people not in the loop to actually know of him and know how good he is. Kas/Thorzain are both testaments to the lack of knowledge truly out there. Stop pretending ignorance is some excusable factor that only happens because things are always as we assume they are. I just wanted to bring up a point but now you're just being a tool. I'm just saying, where I live, people don't really know him (THIS IS RELATIVE, SAY COMPARED TO JINRO OR HUK). And are you fucking kidding me, I tried not to flame anyone, but ur lack of intelligence and comprehension is beyond me. If you're good, you win major tournaments, people know you. Maybe Kas was just sick good, but he didn't win anything major prior, That's not the point. See, people like Naniwa are more known, because 1. he's good 2. cuz he won a major tournament. Do you know how people win major tournaments? They're good. So if Kas was just as good as Naniwa, why isn't he more exposed? I'm just saying there must be a reason why people are calling this an upset -_-
wahaha, are you still arguing - after within 3 pages around 30 people quoted you and told you why Kas is indeed know to real followers of the EU scene? And why he doesn't play at LAN events too often? (team cant afford to send him...) And that he actually wins like every second EU online cup?
Get over it, Kas IS known and he was already know before today =)
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On April 11 2011 06:20 CanucksJC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 06:16 zeru wrote:On April 11 2011 06:15 CanucksJC wrote:On April 11 2011 06:03 Numy wrote:On April 11 2011 05:54 CanucksJC wrote:
Also, if Kas was THAT good, there is no reason why we shouldn't know about it. There is a REASON why some are more famous and some are more underground. If the guy was good, you'd see people praising this guy and we wouldn't call this an 'upset'. But the fact is, people don't really know him, period. You can't get around that IMO and I think people are being a little too defensive of Kas. :s I didn't really want to enter this argument but this logic is beyond me. You are saying that known players must be more skillful than "unknown" players merely because they are known and skill has everything to do with being known? People do know him. Everyone in Europe should know him. I can hardly care about lag but your last paragraph is just wow. Players don't magically just become known if they are good. They have to get their name out there. Naniwa has been known as one of the top EU Toss for a few months now but it takes a MLG win for people not in the loop to actually know of him and know how good he is. Kas/Thorzain are both testaments to the lack of knowledge truly out there. Stop pretending ignorance is some excusable factor that only happens because things are always as we assume they are. I just wanted to bring up a point but now you're just being a tool. I'm just saying, where I live, people don't really know him (THIS IS RELATIVE, SAY COMPARED TO JINRO OR HUK). And are you fucking kidding me, I tried not to flame anyone, but ur lack of intelligence and comprehension is beyond me. If you're good, you win major tournaments, people know you. Maybe Kas was just sick good, but he didn't win anything major prior, That's not the point. See, people like Naniwa are more known, because 1. he's good 2. cuz he won a major tournament. Do you know how people win major tournaments? They're good. So if Kas was just as good as Naniwa, why isn't he more exposed? I'm just saying there must be a reason why people are calling this an upset -_- Who's calling this an upset? I'm assuming at least 50 pages of people from all the argument I happened to walk into..? Also apparently the SotG crew?
People who don't actually follow the SC2 pro scene very much are irrelevant. What the SotG crew says has little relevance. To anything. They don't know what they're talking about for most of the time. They're not hardcore pro scene followers. Look at the first 5 pages or so of this thread. End of discussion really. If you follow the pro scene you'd know about Kas. It's that simple.
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On April 11 2011 06:20 MrCon wrote:Kas has the record peak ELO, far, far ahead (50 points) of the 2nd. His TLPD entry speaks for itself 1v1 Record: All: 338-177 (65.63%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W W W W L L L W W W | View Games vT: 154-92 (62.60%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W W W W W W W W W W | View Games vZ: 100-41 (70.92%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W L W W L W W W W W | View Games vP: 84-44 (65.63%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): L L L W L L L L L L | View Games His vP is lacking, but the TLPD is missing the individual GCPL league he just won against 2 protosses I think. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/individual-leagues#tblt-4161-1-default-0-kas
Holy....
How does he get so many games?
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Braavos36399 Posts
On April 11 2011 06:20 MrCon wrote:Kas has the record peak ELO, far, far ahead (50 points) of the 2nd. His TLPD entry speaks for itself 1v1 Record: All: 338-177 (65.63%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W W W W L L L W W W | View Games vT: 154-92 (62.60%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W W W W W W W W W W | View Games vZ: 100-41 (70.92%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W L W W L W W W W W | View Games vP: 84-44 (65.63%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): L L L W L L L L L L | View Games His vP is lacking, but the TLPD is missing the individual GCPL league he just won against 2 protosses I think. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/individual-leagues#tblt-4161-1-default-0-kas
fyi Kas is 30-10 (75%) in his last 40 TvTs in March 2011 ... dude plays a lot.
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On April 11 2011 05:46 phisku wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 05:43 GenoZStriker wrote:On April 11 2011 05:42 Brad wrote:
According to SoTG, Kas beating NaDa would be the biggest upset in TSL3. Looks like we just witnessed history. :D I hate to say this but it's not. The STOG crew hardly know who Kas is and don't follow the scene outside of GSL and major tournaments. Anyone who follows the scene outside of GSL knows he's the best Terran and TvTer in Europe. No surprise at all. NaDa's name should have no meaning in this match. qft, absolutely right i dare say that kas is the best foreigner right now.
that may be taking it a bit far but he is definetly one of the top3 terrans outside of korea
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On April 11 2011 06:19 Bagi wrote:
There's nothing dramatic about these results, many people (myself included) following the EU scene have been calling Kas the best terran outside Korea for a good time now. The TL community seems to be more US-centered, with much less coverage on the EU server and its happenings, so people just keep getting surprised when the results are in reality nothing surprising.
Second day in a row we see people still riding the BW-hype get smashed by actual, hard-working players. These guys deserve the ACTUAL spotlight, yet people seem to have a hard time accepting that.
I really feel that many people here get their SC2 knowledge from SOTG.
I don't see how you can say NaDa is 'riding the BW hype' when he has legitimate SC2 results in GSL. Maybe you could say that about BoxeR but NaDa? No.
I'm not saying Kas is bad or anything by the way, I really like him and I think he's a fantastic player. I do agree that a lot of Euro players don't get the props they deserve.
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United States13896 Posts
On April 11 2011 06:17 steamrice wrote:
Kind of hard to see Kas as a boss when Nada killed himself off from the viewers eye if you watched the stream. That was REALLY bad macro, there were idle scvs hanging around and the supply blocks + low scv production. You can already see him losing before the big fights.
You're right, its a lot easier to see what NaDa did wrong than what Kas did right over the course of the game. That goes for every game. But that's not a reason to take away from Kas' play. If you go back you can look at all the little things Kas did that come from the hundreds and hundreds of tournament games he has already played in the short time he's been playing SC2. The turret placement that only comes with familiarity with the map and knowing typical flight paths, the refined builds that took that slight advantage over NaDa's every time. Of course NaDa made mistakes, but Kas is an absolute monster at the same time.
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On April 11 2011 06:21 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 06:20 CanucksJC wrote:On April 11 2011 06:16 zeru wrote:On April 11 2011 06:15 CanucksJC wrote:On April 11 2011 06:03 Numy wrote:On April 11 2011 05:54 CanucksJC wrote:
Also, if Kas was THAT good, there is no reason why we shouldn't know about it. There is a REASON why some are more famous and some are more underground. If the guy was good, you'd see people praising this guy and we wouldn't call this an 'upset'. But the fact is, people don't really know him, period. You can't get around that IMO and I think people are being a little too defensive of Kas. :s I didn't really want to enter this argument but this logic is beyond me. You are saying that known players must be more skillful than "unknown" players merely because they are known and skill has everything to do with being known? People do know him. Everyone in Europe should know him. I can hardly care about lag but your last paragraph is just wow. Players don't magically just become known if they are good. They have to get their name out there. Naniwa has been known as one of the top EU Toss for a few months now but it takes a MLG win for people not in the loop to actually know of him and know how good he is. Kas/Thorzain are both testaments to the lack of knowledge truly out there. Stop pretending ignorance is some excusable factor that only happens because things are always as we assume they are. I just wanted to bring up a point but now you're just being a tool. I'm just saying, where I live, people don't really know him (THIS IS RELATIVE, SAY COMPARED TO JINRO OR HUK). And are you fucking kidding me, I tried not to flame anyone, but ur lack of intelligence and comprehension is beyond me. If you're good, you win major tournaments, people know you. Maybe Kas was just sick good, but he didn't win anything major prior, That's not the point. See, people like Naniwa are more known, because 1. he's good 2. cuz he won a major tournament. Do you know how people win major tournaments? They're good. So if Kas was just as good as Naniwa, why isn't he more exposed? I'm just saying there must be a reason why people are calling this an upset -_- Who's calling this an upset? I'm assuming at least 50 pages of people from all the argument I happened to walk into..? Also apparently the SotG crew? sotg crew pretty much only watch gsl/tsl and are uninformed about the euro scene.
Yes, so does the majority of NA population. I've never said 'im right because i was uninformed' i just said 'why are people uninformed' And people immediately start flaming -_-
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SotG crew is kinda american and I doubt that they follow the weekly EU cups in which Kas has been performing sick good for a long time. No surprise for EU.
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On April 11 2011 06:20 MrCon wrote:Kas has the record peak ELO, far, far ahead (50 points) of the 2nd. His TLPD entry speaks for itself 1v1 Record: All: 338-177 (65.63%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W W W W L L L W W W | View Games vT: 154-92 (62.60%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W W W W W W W W W W | View Games vZ: 100-41 (70.92%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W L W W L W W W W W | View Games vP: 84-44 (65.63%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): L L L W L L L L L L | View Games His vP is lacking, but the TLPD is missing the individual GCPL league he just won against 2 protosses I think. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/individual-leagues#tblt-4161-1-default-0-kas
His recent vP doesn't bode well for his next match.
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On April 11 2011 06:20 CanucksJC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 06:16 zeru wrote:On April 11 2011 06:15 CanucksJC wrote:On April 11 2011 06:03 Numy wrote:On April 11 2011 05:54 CanucksJC wrote:
Also, if Kas was THAT good, there is no reason why we shouldn't know about it. There is a REASON why some are more famous and some are more underground. If the guy was good, you'd see people praising this guy and we wouldn't call this an 'upset'. But the fact is, people don't really know him, period. You can't get around that IMO and I think people are being a little too defensive of Kas. :s I didn't really want to enter this argument but this logic is beyond me. You are saying that known players must be more skillful than "unknown" players merely because they are known and skill has everything to do with being known? People do know him. Everyone in Europe should know him. I can hardly care about lag but your last paragraph is just wow. Players don't magically just become known if they are good. They have to get their name out there. Naniwa has been known as one of the top EU Toss for a few months now but it takes a MLG win for people not in the loop to actually know of him and know how good he is. Kas/Thorzain are both testaments to the lack of knowledge truly out there. Stop pretending ignorance is some excusable factor that only happens because things are always as we assume they are. I just wanted to bring up a point but now you're just being a tool. I'm just saying, where I live, people don't really know him (THIS IS RELATIVE, SAY COMPARED TO JINRO OR HUK). And are you fucking kidding me, I tried not to flame anyone, but ur lack of intelligence and comprehension is beyond me. If you're good, you win major tournaments, people know you. Maybe Kas was just sick good, but he didn't win anything major prior, That's not the point. See, people like Naniwa are more known, because 1. he's good 2. cuz he won a major tournament. Do you know how people win major tournaments? They're good. So if Kas was just as good as Naniwa, why isn't he more exposed? I'm just saying there must be a reason why people are calling this an upset -_- Who's calling this an upset? I'm assuming at least 50 pages of people from all the argument I happened to walk into..? Also apparently the SotG crew?
the SoTG crew apparently doesnt know shit about the EU scene just sayin
If you ask Eu pros i am certain ~90% would have predicted Kas to win.
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Wow.. there's a lot of EU aggression towards USA in the latter pages here. Pretty sad really. So what, we don't rabidly follow every tournament ever and that makes us less of SC fans? Since we don't know Kas before we saw some recent games that means that we need to "shut our mouths"? Some of the vitriol in here really makes me never want to post on TL, if this is the kind of conversation I can expect to have. Very, very disappointed.
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On April 11 2011 06:22 vrok wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 06:20 CanucksJC wrote:On April 11 2011 06:16 zeru wrote:On April 11 2011 06:15 CanucksJC wrote:On April 11 2011 06:03 Numy wrote:On April 11 2011 05:54 CanucksJC wrote:
Also, if Kas was THAT good, there is no reason why we shouldn't know about it. There is a REASON why some are more famous and some are more underground. If the guy was good, you'd see people praising this guy and we wouldn't call this an 'upset'. But the fact is, people don't really know him, period. You can't get around that IMO and I think people are being a little too defensive of Kas. :s I didn't really want to enter this argument but this logic is beyond me. You are saying that known players must be more skillful than "unknown" players merely because they are known and skill has everything to do with being known? People do know him. Everyone in Europe should know him. I can hardly care about lag but your last paragraph is just wow. Players don't magically just become known if they are good. They have to get their name out there. Naniwa has been known as one of the top EU Toss for a few months now but it takes a MLG win for people not in the loop to actually know of him and know how good he is. Kas/Thorzain are both testaments to the lack of knowledge truly out there. Stop pretending ignorance is some excusable factor that only happens because things are always as we assume they are. I just wanted to bring up a point but now you're just being a tool. I'm just saying, where I live, people don't really know him (THIS IS RELATIVE, SAY COMPARED TO JINRO OR HUK). And are you fucking kidding me, I tried not to flame anyone, but ur lack of intelligence and comprehension is beyond me. If you're good, you win major tournaments, people know you. Maybe Kas was just sick good, but he didn't win anything major prior, That's not the point. See, people like Naniwa are more known, because 1. he's good 2. cuz he won a major tournament. Do you know how people win major tournaments? They're good. So if Kas was just as good as Naniwa, why isn't he more exposed? I'm just saying there must be a reason why people are calling this an upset -_- Who's calling this an upset? I'm assuming at least 50 pages of people from all the argument I happened to walk into..? Also apparently the SotG crew? People who don't actually follow the SC2 pro scene very much are irrelevant. What the SotG crew says has little relevance. To anything. They don't know what they're talking about for most of the time. They're not hardcore pro scene followers. Look at the first 5 pages or so of this thread. End of discussion really. If you follow the pro scene you'd know about Kas. It's that simple.
How do they not know what they're talking about? I'm pretty sure Idra, Tyler and Day9 know about 50x more than you about starcraft 2, seeing as it is their profession.
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On April 11 2011 06:15 CanucksJC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 06:03 Numy wrote:On April 11 2011 05:54 CanucksJC wrote:
Also, if Kas was THAT good, there is no reason why we shouldn't know about it. There is a REASON why some are more famous and some are more underground. If the guy was good, you'd see people praising this guy and we wouldn't call this an 'upset'. But the fact is, people don't really know him, period. You can't get around that IMO and I think people are being a little too defensive of Kas. :s I didn't really want to enter this argument but this logic is beyond me. You are saying that known players must be more skillful than "unknown" players merely because they are known and skill has everything to do with being known? People do know him. Everyone in Europe should know him. I can hardly care about lag but your last paragraph is just wow. Players don't magically just become known if they are good. They have to get their name out there. Naniwa has been known as one of the top EU Toss for a few months now but it takes a MLG win for people not in the loop to actually know of him and know how good he is. Kas/Thorzain are both testaments to the lack of knowledge truly out there. Stop pretending ignorance is some excusable factor that only happens because things are always as we assume they are. I just wanted to bring up a point but now you're just being a tool. I'm just saying, where I live, people don't really know him (THIS IS RELATIVE, SAY COMPARED TO JINRO OR HUK). And are you fucking kidding me, I tried not to flame anyone, but ur lack of intelligence and comprehension is beyond me. If you're good, you win major tournaments, people know you. Maybe Kas was just sick good, but he didn't win anything major prior, That's not the point. See, people like Naniwa are more known, because 1. he's good 2. cuz he won a major tournament. Do you know how people win major tournaments? They're good. So if Kas was just as good as Naniwa, why isn't he more exposed? I'm just saying there must be a reason why people are calling this an upset -_-
Naniwa said in an Interview 1 month ago, that Kas is the best player in Europe (at that time). Kas is winning online tournaments left and right: In the last 7 days it was the go4sc2 monthly final (his second in a row), the gcpl individual cup and maybe another -> 2 * 500$ pricemoney for go4sc2 and gcpl.
Some reasons why he is unknown to many people:
1) he isn't a community person
2) he isn't an (North-)American
3) he has WC3 and not BW background
4) he doesn't play many offline-tournaments (lost to Morrow in Assembly, but TvZ is by far his weakest matchup and Morrow placed second)
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On April 11 2011 06:20 CanucksJC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 06:16 zeru wrote:On April 11 2011 06:15 CanucksJC wrote:On April 11 2011 06:03 Numy wrote:On April 11 2011 05:54 CanucksJC wrote:
Also, if Kas was THAT good, there is no reason why we shouldn't know about it. There is a REASON why some are more famous and some are more underground. If the guy was good, you'd see people praising this guy and we wouldn't call this an 'upset'. But the fact is, people don't really know him, period. You can't get around that IMO and I think people are being a little too defensive of Kas. :s I didn't really want to enter this argument but this logic is beyond me. You are saying that known players must be more skillful than "unknown" players merely because they are known and skill has everything to do with being known? People do know him. Everyone in Europe should know him. I can hardly care about lag but your last paragraph is just wow. Players don't magically just become known if they are good. They have to get their name out there. Naniwa has been known as one of the top EU Toss for a few months now but it takes a MLG win for people not in the loop to actually know of him and know how good he is. Kas/Thorzain are both testaments to the lack of knowledge truly out there. Stop pretending ignorance is some excusable factor that only happens because things are always as we assume they are. I just wanted to bring up a point but now you're just being a tool. I'm just saying, where I live, people don't really know him (THIS IS RELATIVE, SAY COMPARED TO JINRO OR HUK). And are you fucking kidding me, I tried not to flame anyone, but ur lack of intelligence and comprehension is beyond me. If you're good, you win major tournaments, people know you. Maybe Kas was just sick good, but he didn't win anything major prior, That's not the point. See, people like Naniwa are more known, because 1. he's good 2. cuz he won a major tournament. Do you know how people win major tournaments? They're good. So if Kas was just as good as Naniwa, why isn't he more exposed? I'm just saying there must be a reason why people are calling this an upset -_- Who's calling this an upset? I'm assuming at least 50 pages of people from all the argument I happened to walk into..? Also apparently the SotG crew?
SotG in reality should be called SotNAG (State of the North America Game) since they really have a medium knowledge about EU scene.
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On April 11 2011 05:58 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 05:55 cheesemaster wrote:
Okay my question to people that dont think lag was a factor at all in any of the KR vs US/EU games is, why are all these Korean players underperfoming in every single game then, aside from MC so far every single game koreans have made silly mistakes that you would never see them make in a LAN setting or a GSL, like literally never. So what is your reasoning for them underperfoming? Regardless of weather they are used to the opposing players play style or not it shouldnt mean that they get supply blocked mis micro etc etc so often when we see them play at such a high caliber at Lan settings like the gsl. How did MC micro his Zealot perfectly in game 1 vs Ciara? How did Nada micro his Banshee perfectly against TLO? .
Its not like huge LAG is there in every game.
User was warned for this post
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On April 11 2011 06:21 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 06:10 cheesemaster wrote:
im not saying nada lost because of lag im saying in general Koreans have been playing far worse then how we see them play in the gsl, and this has nothing to do with how the other player is playing, they are making mistakes with their macro micro, mechanics. Im just wondering if anyone else has an explanation besides lag that would make sense as to why the koreans are making mistakes we would never see them make in a lan environment. It has nothing to do with who won or lost, it just has to do with how i view the koreans have played so far in this tournament and they have been severely underperforming with their mechanics Micro, Macro at times regardless of who won. Did you watch Nada vs TT1 and MVP vs Dimaga in GSL WC? Because stuff happens in those games that are pretty big errors. Nada loses a banshee to a cannon, MVP loses hellions without moving them, etc. Nobody is perfect.
Yes i agree, although that was more of a fun showmatch more than anything, when you look at the actual tournament all those players you mentioned that made mistakes did signficantly better save maybe nestea who still played amazing its just Dimaga played more amazing in one gaame, and completely countered Nestea's build in the other. You saw far less errors being made in the non showmatch portion wich were best of 3 or 5's (where the better player will usually come out ahead) and there was money on the line.
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In terms of pure entertainment, these games have been somewhat lackluster, both yesterday and today.
Compared to watching the GSTL and the World All Stars, and might I even add the World champions finals between MVP and MKP, these games seem either completely one sided or lower level (qxc vs adelscott). Now I don't mean that offensively like I am better. But think of it like watching the LA Clippers play the Sacramento Kings. You get the idea: pro teams that are somewhat entertaining, but painful to watch.
Let's hope the ro 8 doesn't dissapoint. Otherwise I'll probably just stick to NASL and GSL and watch TSL finals when it gets there.
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On April 11 2011 06:26 FinBenton wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 05:58 Chill wrote:On April 11 2011 05:55 cheesemaster wrote:
Okay my question to people that dont think lag was a factor at all in any of the KR vs US/EU games is, why are all these Korean players underperfoming in every single game then, aside from MC so far every single game koreans have made silly mistakes that you would never see them make in a LAN setting or a GSL, like literally never. So what is your reasoning for them underperfoming? Regardless of weather they are used to the opposing players play style or not it shouldnt mean that they get supply blocked mis micro etc etc so often when we see them play at such a high caliber at Lan settings like the gsl. How did MC micro his Zealot perfectly in game 1 vs Ciara? How did Nada micro his Banshee perfectly against TLO? . Its not like huge LAG is there in every game.
the lag you experience from one continent to another is constant if you take out possible spikes.
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EPT
