EPT[TSL] Ro16 Day 2 - Page 153
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Lanker
United Kingdom17 Posts
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TicketoHELL
Canada368 Posts
with him going to school and all i bet he hardly practices at all hes not playing games full time like he used to | ||
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Azrael22
United States18 Posts
On April 11 2011 05:58 Chill wrote: How did MC micro his Zealot perfectly in game 1 vs Ciara? How did Nada micro his Banshee perfectly against TLO? Look at their ladder records - you'll notice every player sits in the 50% - 70% win range, even champions. If they don't prepare for their opponent they will have a possibility of losing to a strong competitor who has prepared. It's my theory that is exactly what happened here. 100% agree here. Seems like a few of the Koreans spent time preparing for the latency, most did not. It cost them games. | ||
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OpAndroid
United States84 Posts
Kas is terrific, he played phenomenally today, but I feel that Nada was on a complete tilt and didn't have high hopes of any kind going into this series. Oh well, at least we saw some more interesting games than yesterday's. | ||
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Ratel
Canada184 Posts
On April 11 2011 05:54 CanucksJC wrote: Also, if Kas was THAT good, there is no reason why we shouldn't know about it. There is a REASON why some are more famous and some are more underground. If the guy was good, you'd see people praising this guy and we wouldn't call this an 'upset'. But the fact is, people don't really know him, period. You can't get around that IMO and I think people are being a little too defensive of Kas. :s Kas IS THAT GOOD. the fact that he is underated in the sc2 scene doesn't take away from his overall skill or value. I've put an eye on that player by seeing him play in many small tournaments and cups and he is an incredibly talented player. People generally like to praise the legends of starcraft regardless of how they play. Look at Boxer people still worshiping his name even though he doesn't bring very good results. | ||
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cheesemaster
Canada1975 Posts
On April 11 2011 05:57 Arnfasta wrote: I think part of it has to do with styles that Koreans are not used to. The Korean server, to my understanding, is much more homogeneous and if one style becomes popular for say, TvT, EVERYONE is using that strategy on the Korean server. Whereas, on the EU and NA servers, there's a lot more variety and so the players there have to be much more versatile. Yes but i said regardless of play styles and who won, you see koreans making mistakes with their builds mechanics and micro that really has nothing to do with how the other player is playing , without lag im not saying nada would have won im just saying Koreans in general have been making mistakes we would never see out of them in a LAN setting. | ||
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Arnfasta
United States183 Posts
On April 11 2011 05:58 Chill wrote: How did MC micro his Zealot perfectly in game 1 vs Ciara? How did Nada micro his Banshee perfectly against TLO? Look at their ladder records - you'll notice every player sits in the 50% - 70% win range, even champions. If they don't prepare for their opponent they will have a possibility of losing to a strong competitor who has prepared. It's my theory that is exactly what happened here. Would it be fair to say that another thing is that many of the Korean pros' games are very accessible on English sites but that the reverse isn't true for Koreans (European and North American pros' replays on Korean sites)? I'm not sure myself but I was thinking in trying to prepare for your opponent, the person with more information also has an advantage going into the matches. | ||
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Brad
2754 Posts
On April 11 2011 05:54 CanucksJC wrote: Someone mentioned lag doesn't make you forget supply depots, but really if you think about it, lag has everything to do with it.... I'm not saying there WAS significant lag, but if there was, you start playing like shit cuz lag doesn't let you play crisply the way you'd want to. Just saying. I wonder if this was something the organizers foresaw when getting this started... Yah sure Kas beat NaDa 3-0 that's great, but was that really dependent on pure skill alone? We saw what happened in WC when it was played in a LAN setting, even though that wasn't very representative of the foreigners. Also, if Kas was THAT good, there is no reason why we shouldn't know about it. There is a REASON why some are more famous and some are more underground. If the guy was good, you'd see people praising this guy and we wouldn't call this an 'upset'. But the fact is, people don't really know him, period. You can't get around that IMO and I think people are being a little too defensive of Kas. :s Because people are ignorant, and only follow the drama. People love to overhype the popular players (Cough.). Kas has been the gold standard for a while now. Just check his TLPD. | ||
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darkcloud8282
Canada776 Posts
Without practice playing with lag, it can throw off your game quite a bit. As quoted from an interview with Artosis: “The latency does make a big difference. It won't change every game, but certainly makes a difference over time in micro based situations. It’s also VERY frustrating. If you are used to your units performing in a certain way and they don't that can be very hard to cope with mid-game without becoming upset and letting it affect your play even more.” source: http://nasl.tv/News/Article/2011-04-07-player-spotlight---artosis | ||
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Cri du Chat
Germany606 Posts
On April 11 2011 05:54 CanucksJC wrote: Also, if Kas was THAT good, there is no reason why we shouldn't know about it. There is a REASON why some are more famous and some are more underground. If the guy was good, you'd see people praising this guy and we wouldn't call this an 'upset'. But the fact is, people don't really know him, period. You can't get around that IMO and I think people are being a little too defensive of Kas. :s Not quite sure if i understand your post correctly, but Kas isn't unknown. I collect his replays for month and everyone knows that his TvP and TvT are ridiculous. Maybe he is not known in NA, i don't know about that, but he has a big name in europe. No doubt about it. | ||
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Quakie
Norway725 Posts
On April 11 2011 05:54 CanucksJC wrote: Also, if Kas was THAT good, there is no reason why we shouldn't know about it. There is a REASON why some are more famous and some are more underground. If the guy was good, you'd see people praising this guy and we wouldn't call this an 'upset'. But the fact is, people don't really know him, period. You can't get around that IMO and I think people are being a little too defensive of Kas. :s Are you kidding?(You are from CA I see, so you may be forgiven for your knowledge of the EU-scene). Kas is very well known in the EU-scene, has been a beast in literally all cups he have entered, I was not surprised that he gave Nada a good fight, and I highly doubt any other EUs or US-people that know of him was either. Just check his TLPD. | ||
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Madest
Ukraine179 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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TalkSick
Bulgaria223 Posts
On April 11 2011 06:00 Hot_Bid wrote: what are you talking about, i've never said lag doesn't exist. the lag is worse for koreans to NA than EU to NA (not sure about Ukraine to NA so not sure for Kas). multiple times i've said that the players who have prepared for lag could have done better. that alone assumes there is some lag. my point has always been that lag exists its just not the big deciding factor people have been claiming it as. practice/preparation and who actually plays better that day is more important. i don't know why the IM guys decided not to prepare at all for the matches or why they played like they did. do i think they would've played much better if they practiced more on NA, or cared more about their opponents, or took us up on the offer to play from the oGs house? probably. is it completely within their own control to do those things? yes. it's amazing to me that people don't see the inherent bias in how they perceive who wins and loses. Haypro loses a very close match 1-2 vs Kas with the same lag Nada has and there are 0 complaints. Nada gets absolutely dominated by Kas 0-3, often falling behind by 20 supply without any major engagements and people say "oh it was just lag." that's just ridiculous. Why isn't there a "Like" button on TeamLiquid.net!? | ||
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Airship
United States465 Posts
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Resilient
United Kingdom1431 Posts
On April 11 2011 05:54 CanucksJC wrote: Someone mentioned lag doesn't make you forget supply depots, but really if you think about it, lag has everything to do with it.... I'm not saying there WAS significant lag, but if there was, you start playing like shit cuz lag doesn't let you play crisply the way you'd want to. Just saying. I wonder if this was something the organizers foresaw when getting this started... Yah sure Kas beat NaDa 3-0 that's great, but was that really dependent on pure skill alone? We saw what happened in WC when it was played in a LAN setting, even though that wasn't very representative of the foreigners. Also, if Kas was THAT good, there is no reason why we shouldn't know about it. There is a REASON why some are more famous and some are more underground. If the guy was good, you'd see people praising this guy and we wouldn't call this an 'upset'. But the fact is, people don't really know him, period. You can't get around that IMO and I think people are being a little too defensive of Kas. :s The only people that don't "know" of Kas is NA players. You can listen to the SoTG "predictions" for that if you need proof.....they were calling it the "biggest upset ever" if Kas won. I really knew at that point that they really have no idea who Kas is. The reason for this is because Kas' (or Ukranian) internet is terrible and he refuses to participate in NA tournaments, thus only EU players know that he's THAT good. Also, I'd wager that Kas had as much delay as Nada did for that series. He has mentioned many times in the past that NA is extraordinarily terrible for him to play on. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On April 11 2011 05:54 CanucksJC wrote: Also, if Kas was THAT good, there is no reason why we shouldn't know about it. There is a REASON why some are more famous and some are more underground. If the guy was good, you'd see people praising this guy and we wouldn't call this an 'upset'. But the fact is, people don't really know him, period. You can't get around that IMO and I think people are being a little too defensive of Kas. :s I didn't really want to enter this argument but this logic is beyond me. You are saying that known players must be more skillful than "unknown" players merely because they are known and skill has everything to do with being known? People do know him. Everyone in Europe should know him. I can hardly care about lag but your last paragraph is just wow. Players don't magically just become known if they are good. They have to get their name out there. Naniwa has been known as one of the top EU Toss for a few months now but it takes a MLG win for people not in the loop to actually know of him and know how good he is. Kas/Thorzain are both testaments to the lack of knowledge truly out there. Stop pretending ignorance is some excusable factor that only happens because things are always as we assume they are. | ||
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Loljke
Ukraine246 Posts
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Yang Wenli
United States2283 Posts
On April 11 2011 05:58 FliedLice wrote: What the fuck? If anyone doesn't know Kas he clearly has now clue about anything starcraft related outside korea... I actually don't even who Kas was until TL posted monthly tournament round ups and checked the TLPD on Kas TvT stats. I think the majority outside of the European scene i.e. Korea and North America have little clue when it comes less well known players. I mean we know White-Ra, Morrow, but someone like Kas flies under the radar when he's not established with the community west of Europe. | ||
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havox_
Germany442 Posts
On April 11 2011 05:54 CanucksJC wrote: Also, if Kas was THAT good, there is no reason why we shouldn't know about it. There is a REASON why some are more famous and some are more underground. If the guy was good, you'd see people praising this guy and we wouldn't call this an 'upset'. But the fact is, people don't really know him, period. You can't get around that IMO and I think people are being a little too defensive of Kas. :s lol^^ just cuz you Americans don't follow the EU online scene, doesn't mean that other people (who really know the game) dont know Kas^^ This discussion is so ridiculous :D | ||
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steamrice
435 Posts
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