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If you spoil the results of the tournament, you will be banned. |
On April 05 2011 09:47 Turgid wrote:
Archangel, Tastosis are quite possibly the most respected casting team in the community BECAUSE they can provide analysis. Having relatively high level players participating in the casting for the league can only help. You can even find a lot of love for Tastosis outside of TL, such as on the battle.net forums.
I actually don't see that criticism of Day9, either. I think of him as being a yell-a-lot kind of guy in tournament casting.
No, Artosis provides analysis, Tasteless repeats what Artosis says 75% time and says stupid things other 25% and is not that good at play by play stuff. What he is good is jokes and has good chemistry with artosis.
Give someone like artosis to TB and you get a much better casting Archon (if they also develop some chemistry) as TB is superior to Tasteless in almost all ways.
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Anything to help grow sc2 and e-sports. You got my support! GL HF
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I am very excited about this news as more publicity for SC is always good BUT, I absolutely can not stand HD Starcraft. Even his name is bland. Not only does offer the wrong analysis consistently, but he also adds zero entertainment value for me. He is just boring.
I remember specifically a ZvT with IdrA where he started getting corrupters late game with the greater spire on the way in the production tab, and HD could not figure out why...
Wheat is legit and I expect PainUser to be solid, but I will be watching any HD casts with the volume off. I just cant stand listening to him.
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On April 05 2011 09:38 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 09:18 blackone wrote:On April 05 2011 09:16 Bobster wrote:I enjoyed the teaser video for its campiness, btw. :D On April 05 2011 09:15 Docmedical wrote:
Why aren't you guys following BW naming conventions? Because it's not a BW tournament? lol People nevertheless think of pro league when they see "pro league". They would also think of the Super Bowl if you called your league Starcraft Super Bowl, even though its not a football tournament. What "people" are you talking about? I'm not familiar with the BW scene at all, neither are the majority of the people they are trying to target. Calling it a Pro League is fine. If they called it the Super Bowl then it would be a problem because their target audience is quite familiar with it. And to the guy saying he wont tune in when HD and TB cast, I think they will choose their nearly 650,000 subscriber audience (yes I realize there are a lot of people subscribed to both, but it doesn't matter to make my point) over you choosing not to watch those games. They are trying to appeal to the masses, you are not the masses, but HD and TB's subscribers are.
The fact that I alone wont tune in isn't my point though, not in the slightest. It's that I, as a intense fan of sc2, have no motivation to get my friends/friends of friends to tune into the league because I don't watch it. Sure that may not be an amazingly huge amount of people, maybe only 2-7 for me personally but if there are other people that feel the same, then that will add up to a ton of lost potential viewership.
TB has an amazing voice for casting, absolutely fantastic, but his game knowledge is non existent, I honestly doubt he even play the game. Play by play is fine, but it has to be supported with KNOWLEDGE of the game. What the fuck is TB going to be talking about if there is a game with 15 minutes of macro at the start and not a single battle? He won't be able to talk about their long term plans, or what they are waiting for nor why they are waiting. It will be a complete snoozefest. The only redeeming part here is that they can watch the replay in advance and make sure TB doesn't cast it, but to me, that really shows that the casters needs support.
HD and TB can cast, they can bring in crowds (apparently), they can be somewhat entertaining if action is happening. But without a cocaster with game knowledge they will end up making an incorrect analysis of the game (they always do) and that will simple confuse new viewers even more.
Many, many, many of the people I have gotten to watch sc2 without playing the game were not able to follow casts from anyone other then day9 and Tastosis. Why I think this is is because they are able to both be incredibly entertaining while at the same time explain what is going on and why, what the players thought process is, and how they are going to execute whatever it is they are doing. They can make you laugh while making you think. Doing one of those things along is not enough to have a good cast.
Don't let anyone solo cast this tournament, it just doesn't make any sense to do so.
On April 05 2011 09:57 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 09:47 Turgid wrote:
Archangel, Tastosis are quite possibly the most respected casting team in the community BECAUSE they can provide analysis. Having relatively high level players participating in the casting for the league can only help. You can even find a lot of love for Tastosis outside of TL, such as on the battle.net forums.
I actually don't see that criticism of Day9, either. I think of him as being a yell-a-lot kind of guy in tournament casting. No, Artosis provides analysis, Tasteless repeats what Artosis says 75% time and says stupid things other 25% and is not that good at play by play stuff. What he is good is jokes and has good chemistry with artosis. Give someone like artosis to TB and you get a much better casting Archon (if they also develop some chemistry) as TB is superior to Tasteless in almost all ways.
Yeah, well, you know, thats just like uhh, your opinion man. I have personally always adored tastless' casting since the first time I saw him cast a WCG, that man has charisma and is hilarious. You may not like him and thats fine, but I would say he most definitely has more game knowledge then TB and does add information to the GSL casts.
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Another suggestion for a tournament format is to straight up jack the MST/MSL format, perhaps scaled down a little bit if you can't support something that big. MST/MSL is the single best tournament format IMO in terms of fairness and excitement.
For people who aren't familiar, it works basically like this:
-Preliminary tournament, I think it's single elim
-24 winners go to MST, which is essentially just a specially branded group round. It's kind of like GSL's groups, except the winners of the first two matches play each other, and the winner of that game advances to the MSL proper, while the other guy has to face the winner of the loser's match. The winner of that game advances as well. Always ends in exactly 5 games and it's very fair.
-MSL proper ro32 is a group stage just like MST.
-Rest is single elim. bo5 finals and semis.
If you make it to ro8 of MSL, you get seeded straight back into MSL ro32 next season. The remaining 24 MSL players are the other half of MST for next season(besides the preliminary players). If you lose in MST you have to go through the preliminaries again next season.
This is the perfect format. It creates just enough danger, excitement, and movement of players around so that the tournament never stagnates but is relatively stable.
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On April 05 2011 09:50 Wint wrote:
I think the caster choices are good, casters are there to make the game more entertaining not to be 100% accurate on all facets of the game.
Actually not entirely true. Casters HAVE to do more than just be entertaining. People watch sc2 for the game not to get a laugh from a casters witty comment. Casters need to explain what is happening and why its happening and why that is important all at once. And yes, you do need a level of expertise in the game to do that extremely well. (this is why tastosis, day9 etc, are so good at what they do). That being said, the casters are a bit of a let down for me just because I find TB and HD both sort of annoying (no offense to them, I just don't like how they choose to talk about the game).
Despite that I am quite excited for this league! Should be a lot of really awesome games!
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On April 05 2011 09:57 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 09:47 Turgid wrote:
Archangel, Tastosis are quite possibly the most respected casting team in the community BECAUSE they can provide analysis. Having relatively high level players participating in the casting for the league can only help. You can even find a lot of love for Tastosis outside of TL, such as on the battle.net forums.
I actually don't see that criticism of Day9, either. I think of him as being a yell-a-lot kind of guy in tournament casting. No, Artosis provides analysis, Tasteless repeats what Artosis says 75% time and says stupid things other 25% and is not that good at play by play stuff. What he is good is jokes and has good chemistry with artosis. Give someone like artosis to TB and you get a much better casting Archon (if they also develop some chemistry) as TB is superior to Tasteless in almost all ways.
I don't think Totalbiscuit would be part of a good archon. He's less popular than it seems in the SC2 community; most of his views are still from WoW. Tasteless is more appealing to most people, I think, even if his commentary leaves something to be desired these days.
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IGN, I love you. and I love esports. Thanks for all of this.
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On April 05 2011 10:02 Turgid wrote:
Another suggestion for a tournament format is to straight up jack the MST/MSL format, perhaps scaled down a little bit if you can't support something that big. MST/MSL is the single best tournament format IMO in terms of fairness and excitement.
For people who aren't familiar, it works basically like this:
-Preliminary tournament, I think it's single elim
-24 winners go to MST, which is essentially just a specially branded group round. It's kind of like GSL's groups, except the winners of the first two matches play each other, and the winner of that game advances to the MSL proper, while the other guy has to face the winner of the loser's match. The winner of that game advances as well. Always ends in exactly 5 games and it's very fair.
-MSL proper ro32 is a group stage just like MST.
-Rest is single elim. bo5 finals and semis.
If you make it to ro8 of MSL, you get seeded straight back into MSL ro32 next season. The remaining 24 MSL players are the other half of MST for next season(besides the preliminary players). If you lose in MST you have to go through the preliminaries again next season.
This is the perfect format. It creates just enough danger, excitement, and movement of players around so that the tournament never stagnates but is relatively stable.
i love this format. and completely agree with everything written. It is kind of just a conveluted double elim tournament, but in a good way because you know who your potential opponents are more easily. IDK i like this and wish that more tournaments would use this format.
DONT USE THE MLG FORMAT is my biggest concern tho, nobody wants to see monopolys of the top positions..except MLG apparently
Also just for my opinion on the casters, some people who actually like analysis/like listening to some1 who actually knows what they are talking about, will be severely scared away by TB n HD. i tried to watch a TB casted game and his cast was pretty much as follow, "This is a drone. it is the worker unit of the Zerg. It mines these blue crystals which are called minerals. Minerals are the money players use to make their armies. Later in the game he will get Vespene gas. Vespene gas comes from these geysers here. Gas is used to make the stronger units of the army." and then i turned it off because after 3-4 minutes of "this green thing on the screen, is my cursor" type casting I felt my brain crying within my skull.
Excited for painuser (who i guess didn't get in the league and his consolation was "but u can cast it!") tho cause he knows his ish.
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Yeah, having any of this solo casted isn't the brightest idea.
There's pretty much no one I know or no one I ever talked to who prefers listening to solo casting. I know money/scheduling can't be an issue for a professionally run organisation, so I can only conclude it's a conscious decision.
On April 05 2011 09:33 Docmedical wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 09:31 Bobster wrote:Free to watch? Now that's my kind of price.  On April 05 2011 09:26 Docmedical wrote:On April 05 2011 09:16 Bobster wrote:I enjoyed the teaser video for its campiness, btw. :D On April 05 2011 09:15 Docmedical wrote:
Why aren't you guys following BW naming conventions? Because it's not a BW tournament? lol Its still starcraft. I don't see the point of changing the naming convention. Its almost equivalent of not using the IUPAC naming system for benzenes because they aren't alkanes. Well, I don't know how useful it'd be to follow a convention the large majority of the audience doesn't even know about in the first place. I think leagues and tournaments should be able to name themselves whatever they want and use any abbreviations they want. But I guess I see your point. They should be able to choose their own names. I just like having everything orderly and systematic :D
Haha don't worry about it, I know what you mean, I'm like that too sometimes.
Their tournament, their prerogative. I think it's actually quite clever to separate yourself from other tournaments, even if it's in name only - things that stick out tend to stay with people longer.
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On April 05 2011 09:57 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 09:47 Turgid wrote:
Archangel, Tastosis are quite possibly the most respected casting team in the community BECAUSE they can provide analysis. Having relatively high level players participating in the casting for the league can only help. You can even find a lot of love for Tastosis outside of TL, such as on the battle.net forums.
I actually don't see that criticism of Day9, either. I think of him as being a yell-a-lot kind of guy in tournament casting. No, Artosis provides analysis, Tasteless repeats what Artosis says 75% time and says stupid things other 25% and is not that good at play by play stuff. What he is good is jokes and has good chemistry with artosis. Give someone like artosis to TB and you get a much better casting Archon (if they also develop some chemistry) as TB is superior to Tasteless in almost all ways.
I'm trying to figure out the nicest way to let you know that that statement is hilariously false....
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I have no clue why tasteless is appealing to anyone as a serious caster. He so obviously just repeats what artosis says like a parot. When he was alone during world championship group play he was just so sad and lost it was hard to watch.
Other times he forgets what he is talking about or forgets players names or mixes them up all the time.
He makes wrong predictions at least half the times and so on and on and on.
I watched a fair share of TB casts, he is a great solo caster (although he needs an analytical co-caster to appease the hipster crowd and it just looks more professional) and makes less wrong predictions then tasteless.
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Can you get at least one more caster who actually knows Starcraft?
The idea of TB and HD casting at the same time sounds absolutely terrible. Even djWheat has no idea, he's just an entertaining caster alongside someone like Day9.
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woot woot excited for this
gogo Gracken!
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Totalbiscuit feels less compelled to give analysis, that's the only reason he makes fewer wrong predictions than Tasteless. Totalbiscuit is a silver player and Tasteless was a high level Brood War player who has been high level in SC2 as recently as release. I know that's not the best credentials in the whole wide world but it makes him a better analytical caster by default, and I don't think his partying or apparent lack of playtime has made him worse than TB at commentary. That would take a real effort, no offense to TB.
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YEAH!! HYPE HYPE HYPE!
Thanks so much for making vods and streams free for us IGN!
IPL FOR THE WIN... Unfortunately, I wish this was a teamleague though... Amazing still!
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United States1050 Posts
On April 05 2011 09:46 Sir Alex wrote:
Cool stuff! Only thing that jumps out at me is having the VODs on the bracket page, since that sounds like it would obviously spoil the results for people who missed the live cast. Will there be a spoiler-free VOD page as well?
Right now the bracket page is planning on being updated live. However, you have a good point about having a content delivery system that won't spoil the end result. I'll talk to the team about how we can implement something like that. Thanks for bringing that up!
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On April 05 2011 09:57 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 09:47 Turgid wrote:
Archangel, Tastosis are quite possibly the most respected casting team in the community BECAUSE they can provide analysis. Having relatively high level players participating in the casting for the league can only help. You can even find a lot of love for Tastosis outside of TL, such as on the battle.net forums.
I actually don't see that criticism of Day9, either. I think of him as being a yell-a-lot kind of guy in tournament casting. No, Artosis provides analysis, Tasteless repeats what Artosis says 75% time and says stupid things other 25% and is not that good at play by play stuff. What he is good is jokes and has good chemistry with artosis. Give someone like artosis to TB and you get a much better casting Archon (if they also develop some chemistry) as TB is superior to Tasteless in almost all ways.
You don't understand, lol. Tasteless is called a caster, and Artosis is a commentator. They provide good humor and also they do there jobs respectively well. I'm sure the noobies in the audience would have no idea what Artosis would sometimes talk about when he goes in-depth, so Tasteless is there to make it more simple to understand. Caster+ Commentator < Commentator+Commentator as a casting duo. Just imo.
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Obviously with the mention of casters and TB this quickly degraded into criticism of casters with people talking about their favorite blahblahblahblah.
I'm assuming it's pretty much set in stone and I am really look forward to this tournament. Thank you for all of the effort that was put into this and good luck!
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On April 05 2011 10:12 Sniffy wrote:
Can you get at least one more caster who actually knows Starcraft?
The idea of TB and HD casting at the same time sounds absolutely terrible. Even djWheat has no idea, he's just an entertaining caster alongside someone like Day9.
Very much agreed. I don't think this specific answer has made it over here, but IGN.Alex had this to say over on Something Awful:
[Regarding recruiting high level players to help with analysis] "We're considering that, but for right now everything is starting off on the low end scale and will be ramping up with the success of the IPL."
Right now it seems they don't want to jump straight into this. They know that they're not the biggest, best, or most credible institution in SC2. They're not even the premiere NA tournament and they don't want to fuck this up, so they're taking it easy. I do think they are going to have to get another caster who can actually provide analysis on the games, but there is a reason it's like it is right now, and it's not just that they think this is the best commentator setup possible.
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EPT
