EPT[GSL WC] Ro16 Day 2 - Page 141
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TeMiL
Peru545 Posts
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FallDownMarigold
United States3710 Posts
On March 31 2011 18:44 bluQ wrote: Who ever calls him now "mech" king or "machine" king makes me sick, this little boy just does what every other Terrans has played with allready ... how i dislike that boy abd the hype aroundhim <.< HAHHAHAHAHHAHA wait. Every other Terran has already played as well as him? Who cares if other terrans have made the same units - executed similar builds and unit comps. Who cares. It's all about the mechanics, strategy, execution. Can you say every other terran matches MKP here? Perhaps if you included "king" inside your quotation marks you'd understand the stupidity of your complaint. He's not "just another terran doing terran stuff". When he plays well it's quite obvious that he's up there on the most elite of levels in SC2 currently. | ||
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Full.tilt
United Kingdom1709 Posts
On March 31 2011 21:08 Reasonable wrote: They got buttered up like a skinny white guy in a joint. what does this even mean? what joint? anyway, Our 2 foreign representatives are a ladder abuser during TSL2 and a maphacker from brood war, lol go foreigners! not hating just think it's funny. | ||
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Tokadub
United States168 Posts
maybe try using them at appropriate times instead of trying to cover every strategy/all-in" Well against a good protoss who fast expands you really need EVERY mule you can get. With dark templar techs the buildings are generally hidden and your unlikely to scan them. Basically in general I find that using scans for scouting generally isn't worth it. 99% percent of protoss 4 gate or go collusus death ball anyways so I basically prepare for that. Maybe the turrets are excessive but like I said good luck scanning a dark shrine. | ||
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ihasaKAROT
Netherlands4730 Posts
On March 31 2011 21:58 Tokadub wrote: alot There is nothing good scouting cant see comming. Saying you have to make everything against protoss because they can send everything your way makes the game broken is just saying you lack scouting. Do you really think the protoss players go scout-free vs terran? If I dont make some obs in a macrogame I will lose, no matter how good my deathball is. If I dont spot the drops comming my way, my army is out of position and I will be taken apart in notime. Yes I agree colossi are good , but so far I havent seen much sniping going on. Well you might say "thats because theres stalkers guarding". How about all the empty space between the forwardpylon and the robo? Theres hardly anything guarding that. Park some vikings there, whack a banshee in the air. If you let the protoss get the deathball and just attack you, yeah you probably will lose. So the discussion should be how you can distort the deathball production, instead of how blizzard should fix the game. Thats just my opinion tho. Jinro played pretty bad there, hes not up to his own skill lately and thats a shame, but that doenst mean his opponents are abusive (or any protoss for that matter). Im starting to get really annoyed with people that claim MC is pure abuse and no skill. Timings, compositions, attacks, defends, buildinglayout, forcefields, everything is planned out to perfection. Thats skill. If I do the exact same I will lose, because im not that skilled. Can we stop calling people who USE their race to the max, abusers. Thats like calling a footballteam abusive if they just give high balls in front of the goal to their 7ft strikers. | ||
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valaki
Hungary2476 Posts
prison if I'm right | ||
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Maenander
Germany4926 Posts
Let's wait for MLG Dallas. | ||
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rO_Or
United States306 Posts
On March 31 2011 21:55 HeroMystic wrote: I'm more of a Thor/Banshee type of person. But anyway, every build has it's counters. It's easy to focus on the negatives. MMM's happen to have a lot of those counters too, we just have anti-counters for it (Vikings vs Colossus, Ghosts vs Sentries/HT) Yea, I was simply stating that this marine/tank/banshee army comp is not as effective as many people here think it is. It works as a timing attack if the toss opponent doesn't scout it properly and allows you to waltz right up to their base and get your tanks in prime position. There's a good reason you see pros use it exclusively off 1 or 2 bases. Theres just no way that this army comp is going to compete in a long macro game. Thus, I don't really see it as a solid playstyle as much as a nice timing attack to have in your play book. I'd be shocked if a player could use this army comp as their standard play and get away with it. | ||
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sc2olorin
292 Posts
On March 31 2011 21:35 Zaffy wrote: protoss early aggression is boring and game bending in all matchups. wouldnt mind if they were weak in mid or late game but they are not. you end up having to defend with workers and at best you are on evens with your opponents unless they made a big mistake. agree with this from a spectator's point of view. on almost all of the current maps in the map pool, the constrictors of protoss in the early game seem to be pushing the metagame in all matchups into a narrower and narrower range of viable openings, while the range of protoss openings still remains wide. combine this with both the ability to create strong midgame timings and having the option to play a more passive and turtling midgame, all while potentially having a really powerful completed tech tree in the late game, make for some theorycrafting nightmares in the future from this onlooker's perspective. | ||
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entlassen
United States139 Posts
On March 31 2011 22:08 Full.tilt wrote: what does this even mean? what joint? anyway, Our 2 foreign representatives are a ladder abuser during TSL2 and a maphacker from brood war, lol go foreigners! not hating just think it's funny. the slammer, the big house, sing sing, the pen, the sneezer, the pen | ||
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Rawenkeke
Norway350 Posts
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Mios
United States686 Posts
On March 31 2011 22:21 entlassen wrote: the slammer, the big house, sing sing, the pen, the sneezer, the pen You said the pen twice~ glass house, the clink, the hole, the rock | ||
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HolyArrow
United States7116 Posts
On March 31 2011 22:24 Rawenkeke wrote: Awww shit, Jinro looks pissed in that GIF, can anyone summarize the way he lost? cheese or allin of some sort?:O No, he just played badly, and he was angry at himself I assume. | ||
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Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
On March 31 2011 22:24 Rawenkeke wrote: Awww shit, Jinro looks pissed in that GIF, can anyone summarize the way he lost? cheese or allin of some sort?:O Jinro went 2base --> 4rax with 2 reactors --> mass rine and some marauders. The protoss went for a 2base fast collossus attack and with that many marines, jinro died. | ||
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nofacej
Australia164 Posts
Boxer has had some success in TvP with a predominantly Ghost/Viking/Marauder composition and I'd like to see some more experimentation from guys like MVP and Jinro. A lot of the Terran tech tree has been largely ignored so far. People need to start experimenting with Reapers, Ghosts, Hellions, Battlecruisers, and Ravens (obviously not all at once) in TvP before they can start crying foul. Hellion/Mass Marauder/Raven with a transition into Battlecruisers might be interesting. A few BF Hellions will melt any Zealots, Marauders destroy Stalkers while a couple of Ravens supply the PDDs the Marauders will need to snipe the Colossus. It seems like it would work if you know the Protoss isn't going air. As a bonus if even a few are Hellions left over then with their speed you can go straight to probe harass without sacrificing the expensive core component of your army. Once you do get to the Marauder ball with Battlecruiser support I don't think there's much in the Protoss army that can pose a threat anymore. Another thing I think Terrans should be looking at doing is emulating the 3 Stalker rush from PvP with a 3 Marauder rush. Killing those first few Gateway units is huge vs a Protoss who's teching to Colossus. I really do feel like Terrans sit back too much and let Protoss do whatever they want when Marauders are so good vs small groups of Zealots and Stalkers in the early game. In terms of future patches I would like to see the Reapers use their grenades vs massive units. It would be awesome to see a flock of Reapers flanking a Colossus ball as Marines/Marauders pound the Zealots/Stalkers at the front. | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
On March 31 2011 21:59 Cabinet Sanchez wrote: Stim drop marauders absoloutely fucking destroy buildings in a snap. It should be classed as a seige unit it's so ridiculous. Ever seen an immortal Drop? 2 immoratals rape all your frikkin Techlabs and reactors. And Collos drops rape worker lines. You just need the speed upgrade. Also you can warp in a whole army in while you drop. Last i checked Medivacs don't make units and Terran can't insta warp units for defence. Take your bs about op terran to the battle.net Forums. Toss complain so much because they haven't frikkin learned to expand their thinking because they've been massing collos all game long winning and yelling Terran OP. Each race is full of BS. Adapt. Terran had to adapt. Bio isn't about 1a. Collos are. Bio has to stim Kite, drop, harass. If your losing to 1a MMM, the problem isnt the game its your play. Collos are BS, Maruaders are BS, Banlings are BS. Deal with it. | ||
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zerglingsfolife
United States1694 Posts
On March 31 2011 22:32 Dente wrote: Jinro went 2base --> 4rax with 2 reactors --> mass rine and some marauders. The protoss went for a 2base fast collossus attack and with that many marines, jinro died. The 4rax is a timing attack that can work pretty well, but it's not great on maps with a small choke at the natural like Shakuras because of force fields. It's 10x more strong on a map like metalopolis. | ||
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Solstafir
England32 Posts
On March 31 2011 21:04 Brad wrote: Don't worry guys, DIMAGA will win it all. :D WORD | ||
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ParasitJonte
Sweden1768 Posts
Game 1: Anypro goes for a quick proxy void ray supported by 3 gates, wanting to warp in from the low ground to get some damage done. Jinro is actually quite on top of this and has 4 barracks producing marines. He doesn't suffer many losses and once both Jinro and Anypro realizes that the rush is over, Jinro is ahead. Anypro manages to keep Jinro in his base long enough for Anypro to get up an expansion. He eventually retreats and Jinro takes a quick third and keeps macroing. Jinro is playing really good and solid here and his supply is always ahead. Anypro knows he is behind and takes a hiiden expansion. This is the first crucial part of Jinro's loss as it is never scouted (or at least never dealt with). Jinro imagines Anypro is still on two bases while Jinro is in the process of getting his fourth up and is approaching 200. Once Jinro is practically maxed, he does the right thing and attacks. Realistically, since he is ahead, he should be able to at least put both players back to square one (close to zero army) and Jinro should then be able to remacro better and win the game. However Jinro mismanages the engagement. Stalkers blink in and instantly destroy a lot of vikings. Colossus are not hit by vikings. The stimmed MM army retreats but blink stalkers snipe them, and also kill off the rest of the vikings and medivacs. At this point Jinro is in a very tough position and Anypro doesn't give him any chance to remacro. Instead, he hits his main base and production facilities and Jinro taps out. Game 2: Both players go for a fast expansion. Jinro does basically the same build with four fast barracks producing marines. Very safe. Anypro goes for 2 gateways and a quick robotics. At this point anypro has ~1 stalker and ~2 sentries. Jinro has ~10 marines. Jinro scans the robotics but chooses not to act on it. He should've moved out his marines and punished Anypro for trying to get away with such a quick tech against Jinros low tech army. Instead he moves out and arrives at Anypro's base when stim is completing. At this point Anypro has a colossus out and ~4 sentries. Jinro realizes that he can't attack and moves back home. While Jinro is in the process of preparing for late game, getting his upgrades, making more barracks and getting some tech, Anypro is preparing for a strong two-base attack with colossus and sentries full of energy supported by stalkers. The timing is perfect and Jinro loses the game. | ||
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loklok
Germany161 Posts
On March 31 2011 22:16 sc2olorin wrote: agree with this from a spectator's point of view. on almost all of the current maps in the map pool, the constrictors of protoss in the early game seem to be pushing the metagame in all matchups into a narrower and narrower range of viable openings, while the range of protoss openings still remains wide. combine this with both the ability to create strong midgame timings and having the option to play a more passive and turtling midgame, all while potentially having a really powerful completed tech tree in the late game, make for some theorycrafting nightmares in the future from this onlooker's perspective. P, T and Z are not very different. It is all about timing, correct strat + execution and mind game. Such comments can only come from gamer who are not playing on a decent level. Early P pushes are same as T or Z. Of course if you go for worker and try to defend with +10 drone advantage you can't hold it off. If T goes FE and late Vikings then the correct response is a early Colossus attack. In this case the protoss is reacting and would die if he do not get the colossus out. It depends on gameplay and not on the race. Where exactly is the imbalance? And I'm just tired to read all this rediciolous stuff about MC. He is responding perfectly, has very good timings and knows how to trick his oponents. No one pointing out these things. "Ouah hes playing 4 gate again". Everyone who plays starcraft on a decent level knows how difficult it can be to execute a 4 gate at a later timing. Every game looks like he has maphack and that is an impressive skill. | ||
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