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Dimaga vs nestea set 3 just felt like Dimaga droned more in the beginning. Eh I'm not liking ZVZ, it feels too much like rock paper scissors.
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On March 31 2011 02:33 IVN wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2011 02:26 esc0bar wrote:On March 30 2011 22:26 HuHEN wrote:On March 30 2011 22:21 Koshi wrote:On March 30 2011 22:12 HuHEN wrote:On March 30 2011 22:04 silentsaint wrote:On March 30 2011 22:02 Tschis wrote:On March 30 2011 21:55 Maaku wrote:On March 30 2011 21:32 Leviance wrote:On March 30 2011 21:14 blAke139 wrote:to the HuK mocking: I just don't get you people. Bullying HuK for losing to MVP. Always mocking HuK just for something he said months ago. What about you start remembering good and honest things he did and does. He actually wrote on his facebook wall like 15 minutes ago: Sorry everyone, I really don't know what else to say ...Tell me about another pro who is actually apologizing to his fans when not playing as well as he could. I'm not a fanboy, I just don't get the mocking. And oh yeah. GO DIMAGA!!!  Lots of players apologize to fans in interviews after bad performances... HuK never gives credit to opponents when he loses, always talks about himself and how good he is, just not very likeable. There is a different between months ago and weeks ago. But he's always full of himself. And due to the fact he can't even support his arrogant behaviour with results despite practising in korea, he gets lots of people mocking him. When idra does it tho everyone loves him for it. IdrA has showed credit to better players before, in many interviews. He might trashtalk against some players, but fans mainly like it when the other player is obviously worse than him, but still manages to win a series of games. //tx Thats true. I enjoy his opinion a lot if he is on state-of-the-game. He never holds his opinion back in fear someone might not like it. Hes spent so much time convincing everyone that zerg is unplayable, that it gives him and thousands of ladder zergs the right to: Show absolutely no respect for the skill of their oppponents, immediately assume because they are zerg that they have outplayed their opponent, and blame any losses on imbalance. Yeah, I am a somewhat IdrA fan. But stating that zerg is unplayable is a joke. When I play custom and I see that my opponent is gold or lower I always switch races. A couple days ago there was a bronze zerg complaining about imbalance. He told me that Terran was OP and when I told him that on his level the game was perfectly balanced, he referred to IdrA... Zerg vs Terran is in a good state now. We see Dimaga his style, We have July his style. Both work. Zerg vs Protoss was never a real problem. Except on bad maps like Jungle Basin. Even in the finals I had this feeling that July made wrong decision. IdrA vs Cruncher same thing. Idra went for 6 more drones when Cruncher started moving out, and then he wanted to stepmicro some roaches but got trapped by some impressive forcefields. Those together were 11 roaches he trew away before the fight started. Zerg might be a bit weaker. I don't know. Playing zerg doesn't forgive making mistakes. But it can be cruel to play against as well. (Morrow vs Jinro) As a master league toss player, I feel that PvZ has been toss favored lately (I think part of the reason is the prevalence of defensive roach/hydra play, which just isnt that strong) but I cant believe the hate and arrogance I get from zergs, its literally impossible for them to imagine that MAYBE its possible that they can be outplayed and MAYBE its possible that they make mistakes. I get what you're saying here buddy, but do you ever wonder why there's so many high ranked protoss right now? Because it's really funny how a lot of toss got good overnight, yet don't have a clue. The best example I can give you: I win maybe 45% of my ZvPs by playing "normal" at masters 3300(season 1), but I win upwards of 65% when I 7 pool. So basically what you're saying is the really great protoss players who are supposedly better than I am when they beat me at "normal" games can't even stop a friggin 7 pool? There's something wrong with that statement. A lot of 3300 masters protoss just don't have a clue at all, yet they win based on race and the crazy deathball, they can't adapt for shit. It's not skills in that case, it's just ridiculous. If a 3300 toss is better than a 3300 zerg, he should not lose to a 7 pool, never. At least... not 65% of the time. And guess what... I'm 7 pooling like crazy now, until they fix the deathball. Short games, no deathballs, protoss tears. What else could I ask for? PS. It's ridiculous how many terrible decisions I see from toss after they stop my 7 pool and these terrible decisions become wins for me. But they're "oh so skilled" they can't finish off a zerg after a failed 7 pool because they're off their get-to-deathball mode and can't do anything else correctly. Yeah ultra cheese on ladder is soooo gay, and even harder to stop/predict (for the guy thats being sheesed) than in Bo3/5. Soooooo, thats really no indicator for how good these players are.
Harder to predict? not really. It's not like a zerg can wall off, at least we couldn't last time i checked. Scouting is pretty tough i guess, and anyways... scout or no scout, it's all the same, no clue how to react.
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 31 2011 02:26 esc0bar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 22:26 HuHEN wrote:On March 30 2011 22:21 Koshi wrote:On March 30 2011 22:12 HuHEN wrote:On March 30 2011 22:04 silentsaint wrote:On March 30 2011 22:02 Tschis wrote:On March 30 2011 21:55 Maaku wrote:On March 30 2011 21:32 Leviance wrote:On March 30 2011 21:14 blAke139 wrote:to the HuK mocking: I just don't get you people. Bullying HuK for losing to MVP. Always mocking HuK just for something he said months ago. What about you start remembering good and honest things he did and does. He actually wrote on his facebook wall like 15 minutes ago: Sorry everyone, I really don't know what else to say ...Tell me about another pro who is actually apologizing to his fans when not playing as well as he could. I'm not a fanboy, I just don't get the mocking. And oh yeah. GO DIMAGA!!! Lots of players apologize to fans in interviews after bad performances... HuK never gives credit to opponents when he loses, always talks about himself and how good he is, just not very likeable. There is a different between months ago and weeks ago. But he's always full of himself. And due to the fact he can't even support his arrogant behaviour with results despite practising in korea, he gets lots of people mocking him. When idra does it tho everyone loves him for it. IdrA has showed credit to better players before, in many interviews. He might trashtalk against some players, but fans mainly like it when the other player is obviously worse than him, but still manages to win a series of games. //tx Thats true. I enjoy his opinion a lot if he is on state-of-the-game. He never holds his opinion back in fear someone might not like it. Hes spent so much time convincing everyone that zerg is unplayable, that it gives him and thousands of ladder zergs the right to: Show absolutely no respect for the skill of their oppponents, immediately assume because they are zerg that they have outplayed their opponent, and blame any losses on imbalance. Yeah, I am a somewhat IdrA fan. But stating that zerg is unplayable is a joke. When I play custom and I see that my opponent is gold or lower I always switch races. A couple days ago there was a bronze zerg complaining about imbalance. He told me that Terran was OP and when I told him that on his level the game was perfectly balanced, he referred to IdrA... Zerg vs Terran is in a good state now. We see Dimaga his style, We have July his style. Both work. Zerg vs Protoss was never a real problem. Except on bad maps like Jungle Basin. Even in the finals I had this feeling that July made wrong decision. IdrA vs Cruncher same thing. Idra went for 6 more drones when Cruncher started moving out, and then he wanted to stepmicro some roaches but got trapped by some impressive forcefields. Those together were 11 roaches he trew away before the fight started. Zerg might be a bit weaker. I don't know. Playing zerg doesn't forgive making mistakes. But it can be cruel to play against as well. (Morrow vs Jinro) As a master league toss player, I feel that PvZ has been toss favored lately (I think part of the reason is the prevalence of defensive roach/hydra play, which just isnt that strong) but I cant believe the hate and arrogance I get from zergs, its literally impossible for them to imagine that MAYBE its possible that they can be outplayed and MAYBE its possible that they make mistakes. I get what you're saying here buddy, but do you ever wonder why there's so many high ranked protoss right now? Because it's really funny how a lot of toss got good overnight, yet don't have a clue. The best example I can give you: I win maybe 45% of my ZvPs by playing "normal" at masters 3300(season 1), but I win upwards of 65% when I 7 pool. So basically what you're saying is the really great protoss players who are supposedly better than I am when they beat me at "normal" games can't even stop a friggin 7 pool? There's something wrong with that statement. A lot of 3300 masters protoss just don't have a clue at all, yet they win based on race and the crazy deathball, they can't adapt for shit. It's not skills in that case, it's just ridiculous. If a 3300 toss is better than a 3300 zerg, he should not lose to a 7 pool, never. At least... not 65% of the time. And guess what... I'm 7 pooling like crazy now, until they fix the deathball. Short games, no deathballs, protoss tears. What else could I ask for? PS. It's ridiculous how many terrible decisions I see from toss after they stop my 7 pool and these terrible decisions become wins for me. But they're "oh so skilled" they can't finish off a zerg after a failed 7 pool because they're off their get-to-deathball mode and can't do anything else correctly.
ActionJezus got to the Dreamhack ro16 by 6pooling EVERY GAME, he even took a game off Tyler with it. and cheese defense vs standard play are different facets of the game. Are you perhaps calling Nestea bad for losing to Rain's marine SCV all-in in GSL3, or Haypro for losing to bitbybit?
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On March 31 2011 02:33 Sumwar wrote:
Dimaga vs nestea set 3 just felt like Dimaga droned more in the beginning. Eh I'm not liking ZVZ, it feels too much like rock paper scissors.
Well Nestea, if anyone, has shown that ZvZ doesn't have to be rock paper scissors. He still has the sickest win/loss ratio in ZvZ.
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On March 31 2011 02:35 esc0bar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2011 02:33 IVN wrote:On March 31 2011 02:26 esc0bar wrote:On March 30 2011 22:26 HuHEN wrote:On March 30 2011 22:21 Koshi wrote:On March 30 2011 22:12 HuHEN wrote:On March 30 2011 22:04 silentsaint wrote:On March 30 2011 22:02 Tschis wrote:On March 30 2011 21:55 Maaku wrote:On March 30 2011 21:32 Leviance wrote:
[quote]
Lots of players apologize to fans in interviews after bad performances... HuK never gives credit to opponents when he loses, always talks about himself and how good he is, just not very likeable. There is a different between months ago and weeks ago. But he's always full of himself.
And due to the fact he can't even support his arrogant behaviour with results despite practising in korea, he gets lots of people mocking him.
When idra does it tho everyone loves him for it. IdrA has showed credit to better players before, in many interviews. He might trashtalk against some players, but fans mainly like it when the other player is obviously worse than him, but still manages to win a series of games. //tx Thats true. I enjoy his opinion a lot if he is on state-of-the-game. He never holds his opinion back in fear someone might not like it. Hes spent so much time convincing everyone that zerg is unplayable, that it gives him and thousands of ladder zergs the right to: Show absolutely no respect for the skill of their oppponents, immediately assume because they are zerg that they have outplayed their opponent, and blame any losses on imbalance. Yeah, I am a somewhat IdrA fan. But stating that zerg is unplayable is a joke. When I play custom and I see that my opponent is gold or lower I always switch races. A couple days ago there was a bronze zerg complaining about imbalance. He told me that Terran was OP and when I told him that on his level the game was perfectly balanced, he referred to IdrA... Zerg vs Terran is in a good state now. We see Dimaga his style, We have July his style. Both work. Zerg vs Protoss was never a real problem. Except on bad maps like Jungle Basin. Even in the finals I had this feeling that July made wrong decision. IdrA vs Cruncher same thing. Idra went for 6 more drones when Cruncher started moving out, and then he wanted to stepmicro some roaches but got trapped by some impressive forcefields. Those together were 11 roaches he trew away before the fight started. Zerg might be a bit weaker. I don't know. Playing zerg doesn't forgive making mistakes. But it can be cruel to play against as well. (Morrow vs Jinro) As a master league toss player, I feel that PvZ has been toss favored lately (I think part of the reason is the prevalence of defensive roach/hydra play, which just isnt that strong) but I cant believe the hate and arrogance I get from zergs, its literally impossible for them to imagine that MAYBE its possible that they can be outplayed and MAYBE its possible that they make mistakes. I get what you're saying here buddy, but do you ever wonder why there's so many high ranked protoss right now? Because it's really funny how a lot of toss got good overnight, yet don't have a clue. The best example I can give you: I win maybe 45% of my ZvPs by playing "normal" at masters 3300(season 1), but I win upwards of 65% when I 7 pool. So basically what you're saying is the really great protoss players who are supposedly better than I am when they beat me at "normal" games can't even stop a friggin 7 pool? There's something wrong with that statement. A lot of 3300 masters protoss just don't have a clue at all, yet they win based on race and the crazy deathball, they can't adapt for shit. It's not skills in that case, it's just ridiculous. If a 3300 toss is better than a 3300 zerg, he should not lose to a 7 pool, never. At least... not 65% of the time. And guess what... I'm 7 pooling like crazy now, until they fix the deathball. Short games, no deathballs, protoss tears. What else could I ask for? PS. It's ridiculous how many terrible decisions I see from toss after they stop my 7 pool and these terrible decisions become wins for me. But they're "oh so skilled" they can't finish off a zerg after a failed 7 pool because they're off their get-to-deathball mode and can't do anything else correctly. Yeah ultra cheese on ladder is soooo gay, and even harder to stop/predict (for the guy thats being sheesed) than in Bo3/5. Soooooo, thats really no indicator for how good these players are. Harder to predict? not really. It's not like a zerg can wall off, at least we couldn't last time i checked. Scouting is pretty tough i guess, and anyways... scout or no scout, it's all the same, no clue how to react.
Yes, harder to predict, since every time you click on the play button, you get a diff player as your opponent. Knowledge of style and mind games is useless on ladder.
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First - wow, Dimaga is so baller.
Second, people who bully HuK now are going to have to eat their words when he starts delivering results (which is only a question of time). Everybody who follows SC2 and has some notions of objectivity inside them knows that HuK is underperforming and that his tournament showings aren't reflective of his actual skill in the game. Everybody should also know that players can't underperform forever.
In HuK's case, it's just about overcoming some of the mental blocks in competitive matches. Unlike a vast majority of current top foreigners, HuK didn't have a pro BW or WC3 career and a big tournament experience. He actually skyrocketed in skill and "power rank" both in west and Korea before he had a real chance to mature as a player mentality-wise. Now he just has some catching up to do. And quite honestly, the results he does accomplish while slumping and playing badly are sick good - how many really experienced (even ex BW pro) players consistently fail at reaching Code S and regularly lose to inferior opponents? Not to mention foreigners where pretty much nobody has been really consistent yet.
It seems that the modern trend in TL community is to kick players (or community members in general) when they're down. Talks about HuK's arrogance are ridiculous - people pick up on one single line he blurted out in Assembly and completely ignore all of his other interviews and posts that are actually really humble.
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wow, i havent seen anything from dimaga in quite a while so i was kinda assuming that he was fading out of the pro scene. how wrong i was...
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Aww man!! I just finished watching WhiteRa!! :'( I think he could have taken out July as well... damn. It just really sucks for any foreign player to lose first round (who doesn't play in the GSL) because they may not get another chance to do it... or at least not for awhile.
But GG to Dimaga. The first person to beat Nestea in ZvZ on TV... and he also won the match!
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On March 31 2011 02:33 Sumwar wrote:
Dimaga vs nestea set 3 just felt like Dimaga droned more in the beginning. Eh I'm not liking ZVZ, it feels too much like rock paper scissors.
It's not, you just need super fucking good decision making and lots of experience with the matchup
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On March 31 2011 02:52 hugman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2011 02:33 Sumwar wrote:
Dimaga vs nestea set 3 just felt like Dimaga droned more in the beginning. Eh I'm not liking ZVZ, it feels too much like rock paper scissors. It's not, you just need super fucking good decision making and lots of experience with the matchup
Yep. One of the most important things about zvz is to watch your opponents drone count via Overlord behind mineral lines (which is difficult on some maps). Making a full round of drones is extremely dangerous.
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"gg you gosu 4gt push"
Was White-ra calling him out for 4 gating or being sincere?
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On March 31 2011 02:31 bronzeterran wrote:
In the last game of WhiteRa, how important was the pylon that went down at his ramp just before the probe died? Does anyone think he could have held the rush without it?
Honestly, I don't think he would have been able to hold either way (his gates were just too slow), but if he had managed to get a forcefield out on the ramp, then San's units would have been blocked for a short time. With the pylon there, San could still warp in units in his base as long as he had vision (via a single unit in White-Ra's base), which normally makes a difference.
I think the game was over either way, to be honest. That was a super fast attack by San, and White-Ra wasn't ready.
And White-Ra was definitely not BMing with his "gg gosu 4wg" or whatever his exact words were.
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On March 31 2011 02:58 holycrapitsTony wrote:
"gg you gosu 4gt push"
Was White-ra calling him out for 4 gating or being sincere?
Seeing as WhiteRa has never been BM... EVER and is always said to be the nicest pro gamer... I think he was being sincere.
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On March 31 2011 02:58 holycrapitsTony wrote:
"gg you gosu 4gt push"
Was White-ra calling him out for 4 gating or being sincere?
Seeing as how it was White-Ra, an incredibly good-mannered player (as opposed to IdrA, whose intended tone would be quite negative in the same situation), I think it's clear that White-Ra was being nice and sincere. After all, it was a really strong push, and White-Ra is the type of person to give credit where credit is due.
Obviously, it's hard to read tone over the internet, but I doubt that White-Ra would be BM, let alone on such a large stage.
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I'm a big fan of IMNesTea, and I just can't believe what I saw in the last 2 games. Really good job by Dimaga, totally deserves those wins.
Specially if you take in count IMNesTea has IMLosirA as a practice partner (not sure if they actually practiced for this).
Full respect for Dimaga, I can remember Tastossis mentioning him at GSL1 or 2, when they considered he wasn't GSL material.
But now, just wow.
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On March 31 2011 03:02 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2011 02:58 holycrapitsTony wrote:
"gg you gosu 4gt push"
Was White-ra calling him out for 4 gating or being sincere? Seeing as how it was White-Ra, an incredibly good-mannered player (as opposed to IdrA, whose intended tone would be quite negative in the same situation), I think it's clear that White-Ra was being nice and sincere. After all, it was a really strong push, and White-Ra is the type of person to give credit where credit is due. Obviously, it's hard to read tone over the internet, but I doubt that White-Ra would be BM, let alone on such a large stage.
Yeah, I've never known White-ra to be a dick about anything. It might just be because of the way I read it. Thanks.
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interesting results, wish whitera took another game, but great job dimaga! going to watch a bit later!!
XD
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Dimaga now just go to GSL and win everything man. I mean he beat IMmvp, July and Nestea now. So do IT !!
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Does anyone know what Dimaga's ceremony was about? lol
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EPT
