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Players such as Jinro, HuK, and Adelscott did not apply for this tour, so don't ask why they aren't on this list. DIMAGA, Kas, and LaLush turned applications in late so they will not appear either. Please take some time to learn who exactly applied. Please inform yourself about who applied and who didn't. |
On March 30 2011 10:51 OmNomSpy wrote:
This is a great tournament list, although I can name a handful of NA players who are both more qualified and popular/fanfavorite than Cruncher.
More popular, yeah. More qualified? Maybe, but it's hard to argue with his recent performance.
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On March 30 2011 07:53 ImHuko wrote:
It was kind of obvious when this whole thing started that Incontrol was going to get a spot that someone else deserved. You gotta be silly to think that the guy who helps run the tournament wouldn't get a invite, no matter how good he is.
I believe Gretorp is helping quite a bit and isn't in the league.
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On March 30 2011 10:57 AdreN- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 07:53 ImHuko wrote:
It was kind of obvious when this whole thing started that Incontrol was going to get a spot that someone else deserved. You gotta be silly to think that the guy who helps run the tournament wouldn't get a invite, no matter how good he is. I believe Gretorp is helping quite a bit and isn't in the league.
I might be wrong but i dont think he applied.
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On March 30 2011 10:52 Zlasher wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 10:25 Dommk wrote:
Do you realize how difficult it is to win a 64 or 128 man open tournament? regardless?
How many pro players do you see in tournaments like this time after time that lose in 3-4 rounds. There is something to be said about consistency in top 4 or top 2 finishes and dde has the most consistent results in that regard in NA. That is NOT arguable. He also finished JUST outside the points system for the TSL qualifiers, and once again, that was the toughest series of showing consistency than anything, the players that qualified via points for TSL are in my opinion the best tournament players in the world.
He wasn't "just outside" the qualifying points, he was 40points behind, and if that is the benchmark for "just outside" then A LOT of people were "just outside" the qualifying points for TSL. Not doubting that it is difficult winning a 64/128man tournament, but there aren't very many pro players in the RedditOpen, certainly very few when compared to a 64man tournament featuring some of the best of the best. Not trying to diminish DDE's place, he has done well, but in terms of accomplishments alone, Minigun certainly deserved to be in the NASL over some players that managed to get in. What Xeris said about race balance seemed quite fair though, there are quite a few good NA Protoss players and it would be difficult to include everyone (and in terms of Terran players, DDE certainly deserves to be in the NASL over other Terrans that have applied), but I guess you can call me a Minigun fanboy, because I can't help but feel that he got cheated from a spot since he has achieved quite a lot more than some players who are in the NASL, not to mention a lot better as well I didn't say Minigun didn't deserve to be in, because he also does, I'm just saying dde isn't in the same category as incontrol, machine, stalife, etc.
I'm pretty sure whenever dde played incontrol on ladder, dde was favored. Dude was like 4200 60% terran at the end of season 1.
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On March 30 2011 10:24 RotterdaM wrote:
demuslim with 1 arm would beat atleast 10 players out of this list ^^, he'd be in shape in no time and even if he wouldnt he still achieved more in sc2 than 80% of this list which was reason enough to invite him, pretty bad/sad decision imo, yes I'm biased ofcourse cause hes my friend but I _HONESTLY_ believe in every single word I write here, wrong judgement.
yeah, i agree with this! but we will have to wait for next season to see if he makes it in i guess
User was warned for this post
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@Nightend: I know it must be tough for you but it is not 100% NASLs fault you were on the backup list. It was required to prove you are able to attend the live event. So you can not blame NASL entirely for the mess because other people with similar situation did get it right (Brat_ok + his manager). Needless to say, defending your position now will get you nowhere for season 1. But it can potentially jeopardize the situation for season 2. Just keep that in mind if you really want to compete in NASL in the future. Also one more thing.. I see you make many spelling mistakes in English, which comes off very childish. I know its difficult if it is not your primary language but you can always install dictionaries addon (firefox) for English spelling (please don't see this as bashing, I just want to help).
NASL interaction towards the players and vice-versa is new for both parties, so everyone will learn from previous mistakes.
I believe first season player selection is based on skill+popularity combined. If the combined sum is not high enough to get into top50 you are out of luck for the first season. First season is clearly made to get everyones eyes set on the NASL league, thus the "popularity" invites. In season 2 only the skilled ones will remain from season 1 and only skilled will qualify. Keep that in mind if you think skill-wise you should be in the top50 of first season.
For people that claim iNcontrol is running the show, its like saying Artosis is running the GSL, just lol. But I do however believe his invite is based more slightly more on popularity and maybe connection to NASL. He will have the chance to prove me wrong, I'm looking forward to it.
Demuslims denial I have the feeling is more to protect him from himself than insecurity he will perform. When his injury is 100% healed Demu will be back :D.
Overall, 11 Koreans (incl SeleCT) will be just about enough for me to buy the season ticket. Can't wait to see the top foreigners duke it out with the Koreans. The league can't come soon enough.
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On March 30 2011 07:39 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 07:32 Phaint wrote:On March 30 2011 07:29 iNcontroL wrote:On March 30 2011 07:28 Phaint wrote:On March 30 2011 07:26 NightEnD wrote:On March 30 2011 07:20 Defacer wrote:On March 30 2011 07:16 NightEnD wrote:On March 30 2011 07:06 Xeris wrote:On March 30 2011 06:57 Bean54 wrote:
Xeris, you say you didnt accept NightEnD because he didn't already have a VISA. Did you even let the players know this was a requirement before or during the application process? Based on what it sounds like, you didn't. If not having a passport is a legitimate concern and is cause for disqualification you should have let NightEnD and all players know that BEFOREHAND so they could actually obtain one or fail to. Then you'd have a valid reason for disqualifying them. Sounds like you disqualified him for something that could easily have been remedied if you had let him know ahead of time. I didn't specifically tell the players, however, when I was approached by BRAT_OK's manager (from RoX), about the NASL, he actually provided me with BRAT's B1/2 VISA number that we verified. White-Ra has demonstrated his ability to get into the US before (I met him at MLG DC and Blizzcon, so I'm well aware he could get here). While it is true, I could have been clearer I guess, the ultimate burden of responsibility must be shared by both organizers and players. We are not here to hand-hold, and this is a two-way street. The fact that someone like BRAT's manager made sure to provide me that information (the contract specifically says that you need to *guarantee* your ability to be in the US for the final) in order to alleviate any concern shows that: a) they understood the implications of playing in the league, and b) they cared enough about being a part of it to go the extra mile. NightEnD didn't do this, nor did his manager. I obviously take some responsibility for not explicitly stating it, but neither him or his manager has taken any responsibility in the matter, and instead responds with harsh words to me and the league. This is unfair for us. In our internal discussions, we wanted to avoid people from countries who had VISA problems entering the US because those players are "high risk" for us (I.E. what happens if they qualify but can't come to the finals?), this is also why we only considered ONE player (BRAT_OK) from RoX, and none of their other players... the RoX manager didn't even submit applications for the other ones because he knew they didn't have and couldn't guarantee VISAS. We did research on various countries, and knew that Romania doesn't have a VISA waiver program with the US, and that it would be difficult for a Romanian to get a VISA, which is why we didn't have NightEnD on our list, and which was why he was on our backup list. So again, people should be aware that in life, there are always two parties and both hold responsibility. So u picked the 50 players and said x is not invited becouse y is not invited becouse NightEnD is not invited becouse he has no visa . How could u know that i dont have visa if u didnt even bother t to ask me ? Pls cut the crap Nightend: I don't know you or Xeris personally, but let it go. Next season, man; next season. Complaining now isn't going to get you any closer to what you want at this point. after how much i ''cryed' now mark my words i will not be invited in 2nd season or in 3 they will find an excuse like this if not a bigger one . Its run by Xeris and iNControl. You bet your bottom dollar you will never see an invite (but latter seasons aren't run by invites so don't worry champ  ) No. It isn't ran by me. I've said this countless times. Also why the hell would we have a grudge against him? He is a fantastic player... obviously he is upset with not being selected for this league.. anybody who cares about this game would be (100% understandable). Why do you feel the need to try and stir a pot that doesn't exist? How'd ya get that invite then? Your achievements don't even compare to 49th least achievement earning person on the list. SooOOOOooOOO you flame randomly. I tell you that you are wrong and basing opinions on things that are wrong... and you come back with some kind of an attack on me? Did you catch the part where the NASL people said they didn't recruit based on money earnings? There were other factors... race played, region, fame and skill all played a part. I am sorry you are so against me. I will work really hard to make you look dumb for holding some sort of grudge against me. Pardon me sir while I try and play this game at the highest level! I love it when people flame me for not winning a tourney or something... you think I play this game NOT to win? I am trying harder than 99% of each person who flames me to play this game as best I can. For some, they recognize that I can and do do well (top 20 MLG in all 3 attended / various accomplishments in BW - the harder game). For others, they try and get at me with that simple fact. It's odd... but it's fine. I am 100% completely fueled by the haters/doubters. To those that support me - THANK YOU. I too am motivated to do you guys proud <3 I am sorry I give so much attention to the haters 
in the OP xeris talks about NOVAStalife won over $3,500 in prizes under reason why players was chosen. im not arguing towards you not deserving at all im just saying Xeris points out that earnings there factored into Stalife being in
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Nada, Boxer, July? I'm happy!
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Demu would walk up and down half of these players, really disappointed with that choice. Hopefully he comes back through qualifiers and shows them what a bad decision they have made.
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Guys this is an outstanding line up of players. There were some surprises and It's a shame that they couldn't invite everyone but this is still going to be an awesome tournament. There are some players in this tournament that are relatively unknown but i think most people will be pleasantly surprised with their performance. I believe that the NASL will live up to the hype 
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On March 30 2011 11:03 Shinobi1982 wrote:
Also one more thing.. I see you make many spelling mistakes in English, which comes off very childish..
what
the
shit
I dont want to openly insult you here, (but i just cant stop myself from doing it in this circumstance.) That has to be one of the dumbest statement ever
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Excellent read about the selection process. The resulting list of players seems balanced, fair, and exciting. You can't make everyone happy, and people should understand that. The minigun choice was the most controversial in my opinion, but cruncher has shown such impressive results he simply could not be overlooked.
Heres hoping season 1 is the first of many! GL!
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Man, how did MarkyO not make it?
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On March 30 2011 11:03 motioncity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 07:39 iNcontroL wrote:On March 30 2011 07:32 Phaint wrote:On March 30 2011 07:29 iNcontroL wrote:On March 30 2011 07:28 Phaint wrote:On March 30 2011 07:26 NightEnD wrote:On March 30 2011 07:20 Defacer wrote:On March 30 2011 07:16 NightEnD wrote:On March 30 2011 07:06 Xeris wrote:On March 30 2011 06:57 Bean54 wrote:
Xeris, you say you didnt accept NightEnD because he didn't already have a VISA. Did you even let the players know this was a requirement before or during the application process? Based on what it sounds like, you didn't. If not having a passport is a legitimate concern and is cause for disqualification you should have let NightEnD and all players know that BEFOREHAND so they could actually obtain one or fail to. Then you'd have a valid reason for disqualifying them. Sounds like you disqualified him for something that could easily have been remedied if you had let him know ahead of time. I didn't specifically tell the players, however, when I was approached by BRAT_OK's manager (from RoX), about the NASL, he actually provided me with BRAT's B1/2 VISA number that we verified. White-Ra has demonstrated his ability to get into the US before (I met him at MLG DC and Blizzcon, so I'm well aware he could get here). While it is true, I could have been clearer I guess, the ultimate burden of responsibility must be shared by both organizers and players. We are not here to hand-hold, and this is a two-way street. The fact that someone like BRAT's manager made sure to provide me that information (the contract specifically says that you need to *guarantee* your ability to be in the US for the final) in order to alleviate any concern shows that: a) they understood the implications of playing in the league, and b) they cared enough about being a part of it to go the extra mile. NightEnD didn't do this, nor did his manager. I obviously take some responsibility for not explicitly stating it, but neither him or his manager has taken any responsibility in the matter, and instead responds with harsh words to me and the league. This is unfair for us. In our internal discussions, we wanted to avoid people from countries who had VISA problems entering the US because those players are "high risk" for us (I.E. what happens if they qualify but can't come to the finals?), this is also why we only considered ONE player (BRAT_OK) from RoX, and none of their other players... the RoX manager didn't even submit applications for the other ones because he knew they didn't have and couldn't guarantee VISAS. We did research on various countries, and knew that Romania doesn't have a VISA waiver program with the US, and that it would be difficult for a Romanian to get a VISA, which is why we didn't have NightEnD on our list, and which was why he was on our backup list. So again, people should be aware that in life, there are always two parties and both hold responsibility. So u picked the 50 players and said x is not invited becouse y is not invited becouse NightEnD is not invited becouse he has no visa . How could u know that i dont have visa if u didnt even bother t to ask me ? Pls cut the crap Nightend: I don't know you or Xeris personally, but let it go. Next season, man; next season. Complaining now isn't going to get you any closer to what you want at this point. after how much i ''cryed' now mark my words i will not be invited in 2nd season or in 3 they will find an excuse like this if not a bigger one . Its run by Xeris and iNControl. You bet your bottom dollar you will never see an invite (but latter seasons aren't run by invites so don't worry champ ) No. It isn't ran by me. I've said this countless times. Also why the hell would we have a grudge against him? He is a fantastic player... obviously he is upset with not being selected for this league.. anybody who cares about this game would be (100% understandable). Why do you feel the need to try and stir a pot that doesn't exist? How'd ya get that invite then? Your achievements don't even compare to 49th least achievement earning person on the list. SooOOOOooOOO you flame randomly. I tell you that you are wrong and basing opinions on things that are wrong... and you come back with some kind of an attack on me? Did you catch the part where the NASL people said they didn't recruit based on money earnings? There were other factors... race played, region, fame and skill all played a part. I am sorry you are so against me. I will work really hard to make you look dumb for holding some sort of grudge against me. Pardon me sir while I try and play this game at the highest level! I love it when people flame me for not winning a tourney or something... you think I play this game NOT to win? I am trying harder than 99% of each person who flames me to play this game as best I can. For some, they recognize that I can and do do well (top 20 MLG in all 3 attended / various accomplishments in BW - the harder game). For others, they try and get at me with that simple fact. It's odd... but it's fine. I am 100% completely fueled by the haters/doubters. To those that support me - THANK YOU. I too am motivated to do you guys proud <3 I am sorry I give so much attention to the haters in the OP xeris talks about NOVAStalife won over $3,500 in prizes under reason why players was chosen. im not arguing towards you not deserving at all im just saying Xeris points out that earnings there factored into Stalife being in
The point wasn't about how much Stalife won... its about that he won them in tournaments with ~$100 prize pools, meaning he's placed top in ~35 online tournaments, that's impressive.
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Thanks for explaining to us about the selection process. It cleared up many stuff. Love the picks, so many oGs players and even Boxer!!!
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I think NASL pretty much saved itself with the last 10 players. I was not impressed by the first 40.
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On March 30 2011 07:56 ImHuko wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 07:55 Minigun wrote:On March 30 2011 07:45 Bean54 wrote:On March 30 2011 07:15 Minigun wrote:On March 30 2011 07:09 Bean54 wrote:On March 30 2011 07:00 Minigun wrote:
To those negatively critizing the nasl...
Does everyone realize how big e-sports can get in the NA if this booms?
It will be huge, it's getting huge as we speak.
It's a list of 50 people. Unfortunately that means not every top player can get it.
They need to make money off it as well. So not only do they invite top players, but people the community favorites.
If there are players that don't belong, then they will be weeded out pretty fast. They may have taken your favorite players spot, but there's always next season, and if they really deserve to be there, then they will probably be able to get through using the qualifier. I'm not sure how well I would have done if they through me in there now. I can't say I would be confident playing someone like ogsmc in a tournament. Although I would love the chance too (favorite protoss player <3)
Nasl is a business. I want to watch it grow. Am I little disappointed I didn't get in? Ofc..but will there be other chances to get in, other turnys (especially if the NASL takes off) ? Yes.
Starcraft 2 is so close to becoming huge in the NA. Instead of negatively criticizing one of the first businesses to actually try and expand E-sports in the west. Lets give it our unconditional support. Starcraft 2 can be huge, but only if the community supports it.
We all want it to succeed. However, if the business wants support from the community, it should do its best to represent and treat the community fairly as well. People have valid criticisms of how their applications were handled that should be remedied rather than glanced over just because the business is hosting the tournament of a game we all love. Just because we want a e-sports to be big doesn't mean we turn a blind eye and give the NASL or any other tournament carte blanche to pick favorites and disregard hard-working and deserving players. The NASL depend on our viewership and the viewers should be heard (support AND criticism). There will be problems and people felt like they were "wronged" in every tournament. It's just unavoidable for the most part. (I'm not saying anyone was or wasn't, staying out of that because it's not really my business.) I think you are missing how extremely hard it would be for someone to pick 50 top players, out of koreans, eu, and na. I would pull my hair out. It's IMPOSSIBLE to not leave people out. I can think of a few iffy players on that list, but im keeping my opinion out of it. It doesn't matter if there are a few iffy players. NASL are one of the first businesses to put themselves out there, and try and do something amazing for e-sports and starcraft 2. I'm not going to not support them because someone I think was deserving didn't get in. There's always the next tournament. A perfect list would look 100% different for everyone. Did people who deserved to get in not get in? Of course, that would have happened no matter who made the list. whether it was me, you, or someone who was completely unbiased. Well see, it is your business because YOU were overlooked for as you call them, "iffy players." And that characterization, makes your opinion rather evident that you believe there are unqualified players or people that don't deserve to be there. AND YES IT DOES MATTER because legitimately good players LIKE YOURSELF are excluded and that matters to the viewers. I understand your desire to get in future tournaments and thus the incentive to avoid confrontation with the NASL but you should let others speak and stop defending the NASL's choices when you should have been on that list. We'll lets look at it this way from their viewpoint. I will use myself so I don't insult anyone. -qualifications of rootminigun -has no lan experience -did not play sc1 -is a ladder whore ( -_- ) -has played in a small amount of online turnys I usually place well in every turny, but that should motivate me to play more turnys, but for some reason I don't. I can only blame myself for not being invited Having no lan experiance but placing well in every tournament you enter is much better than having LAN experiance and not doing good in any tournament. You are considered an underdog because of the things you list but in actuality, many of the invites would be underdogs against you Also apparantly saying over and over that you want to win so bad is much more impressive than actually winning. Stop fucking talking about how you want to win so much, Incontrol. EVERYONE WANTS TO WIN. You simply haven't won, or even pulled your weight in anything you do in clan leagues. You took a spot from much much more well deserved players. I don't know Nightend, but I always see his name in the top of small tournaments with Goody/Socke/Kas etc, he might win them all but his results are definitely better than you by FAR in SC2. User was temp banned for this post.
Well obviously guys like Incontrol and Artosis aren't included because of their skills or results, (although Artosis did qualify for a GSL). Comparing someone who's trying to get in based on skill to someone who's included because they're a popular community personality is pretty dumb. If Day9 or Tasteless would've applied they would probably have got in too.
Also Nightend wasn't left out because of his lack of skills.
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If it were up to me, and I just had to pick that last EG player, I'd definitely pick one-arm DemusliM over 4 arm Incontrol. He's just a better player, offering better results, more compelling play, great strategies and is overall an awesome player to watch.
Plus, being from UK he's a player that increases diversity, and allows a country that is normally not so hot on e-sports to have someone to root for.
On the whole NightEnd issue. It is the tournament's organizers responsibility to state ALL the conditions required to sign the contracts in question. I find it unbelievable that Xeris is justifying their mistake based on BRAT_OK's manager's managerial acumen.
Xeris, you should remember that most of these players do not have that kind of managers, and that, whenever a person starts something requiring an application process, the conditions to be met must be fully detailed. This is actually a HUGE mistake by NASL's organization, it's sort of a sentinel mistake, in that it reveals that there's a problem with how things are being done.
The damage is already done though, all you can do is look to the future and ensure it won't be happening again, but you should definitely recognize this is a managerial mistake by NASL, since nightend had no way to know this could be an issue. Basically what I'm saying is, that while RoX_KiS manager's attitude is good, and commendable, you can't expect everyone to act in the same way, since conditions are different for different players, this is why the minimum the organization can do is state is full detail every condition needed to apply.
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On March 30 2011 11:28 mordk wrote:
If it were up to me, and I just had to pick that last EG player, I'd definitely pick one-arm DemusliM over 4 arm Incontrol. He's just a better player, offering better results, more compelling play, great strategies and is overall an awesome player to watch.
Plus, being from UK he's a player that increases diversity, and allows a country that is normally not so hot on e-sports to have someone to root for.
On the whole NightEnd issue. It is the tournament's organizers responsibility to state ALL the conditions required to sign the contracts in question. I find it unbelievable that Xeris is justifying their mistake based on BRAT_OK's manager's managerial acumen.
Xeris, you should remember that most of these players do not have that kind of managers, and that, whenever a person starts something requiring an application process, the conditions to be met must be fully detailed. This is actually a HUGE mistake by NASL's organization, it's sort of a sentinel mistake, in that it reveals that there's a problem with how things are being done.
The damage is already done though, all you can do is look to the future and ensure it won't be happening again, but you should definitely recognize this is a managerial mistake by NASL, since nightend had no way to know this could be an issue. Basically what I'm saying is, that while RoX_KiS manager's attitude is good, and commendable, you can't expect everyone to act in the same way, since conditions are different for different players, this is why the minimum the organization can do is state is full detail every condition needed to apply.
When NightEnd was informed that the finals will take place in the USA he should have realized that he would need a Visa. It's pretty damn obvious. RoX_KiS's manager knows what must be done because he is better at his job. It is not Xeris fault that NightEnd or his manager don't know the basic knowledge of foreign travel, especially when applying to a league that has the finals in a foreign country to him.
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On March 30 2011 11:38 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 11:28 mordk wrote:
If it were up to me, and I just had to pick that last EG player, I'd definitely pick one-arm DemusliM over 4 arm Incontrol. He's just a better player, offering better results, more compelling play, great strategies and is overall an awesome player to watch.
Plus, being from UK he's a player that increases diversity, and allows a country that is normally not so hot on e-sports to have someone to root for.
On the whole NightEnd issue. It is the tournament's organizers responsibility to state ALL the conditions required to sign the contracts in question. I find it unbelievable that Xeris is justifying their mistake based on BRAT_OK's manager's managerial acumen.
Xeris, you should remember that most of these players do not have that kind of managers, and that, whenever a person starts something requiring an application process, the conditions to be met must be fully detailed. This is actually a HUGE mistake by NASL's organization, it's sort of a sentinel mistake, in that it reveals that there's a problem with how things are being done.
The damage is already done though, all you can do is look to the future and ensure it won't be happening again, but you should definitely recognize this is a managerial mistake by NASL, since nightend had no way to know this could be an issue. Basically what I'm saying is, that while RoX_KiS manager's attitude is good, and commendable, you can't expect everyone to act in the same way, since conditions are different for different players, this is why the minimum the organization can do is state is full detail every condition needed to apply. When NightEnd was informed that the finals will take place in the USA he should have realized that he would need a Visa. It's pretty damn obvious. RoX_KiS's manager knows what must be done because he is better at his job. It is not Xeris fault that NightEnd or his manager don't know the basic knowledge of foreign travel, especially when applying to a league that has the finals in a foreign country to him.
Yes, and nightend TOLD THEM he wouldnt have any issues getting a VISA, if NASL wanted more than that (an ACTUAL visa) they should have asked so, and not just sat there and once the selection is done turn around and tell him ''oh btw we needed a visa so youre cut''
Implying that Nighend or his manager dont know how travelling word is a baseless statement, obviously they know how this works, but actually knowing that you require to ''already have a visa in case you get selected in the 50'' is a whole different issue
Also, from the general tone of your post its obvious you havent read half of this thread but ill still bait, rox_kis' manager did so only because brat_ok already had issues in previous tournaments, this is also a totally different situation.
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EPT
