Hoping for Leenock to avenge HuK and wipe the floor with wiseguy Losira. Also if Supernova wins we can get to see another EPIC Leenock vT series. That is what I'll be looking forward to the most!
Leenock needs to get back into Code S, I think he was unfairly singled out for the up and down matches last season. His dominant play so far shows that he's easily deserving of going back. With that said I think he wins over Losira.
For the second match, Toss players have been cruising through the GSL when going up against Terrans with very few exceptions. For that reason and based on Alicia's play in his past few matches, I'd say he takes it over Supernova.
On March 09 2011 16:38 sawedust wrote: Leenock needs to get back into Code S, I think he was unfairly singled out for the up and down matches last season. His dominant play so far shows that he's easily deserving of going back. With that said I think he wins over Losira.
For the second match, Toss players have been cruising through the GSL when going up against Terrans with very few exceptions. For that reason and based on Alicia's play in his past few matches, I'd say he takes it over Supernova.
Unfairly singled out? He lost to NEXLiveForever, and then got a free chance, which he lost (not sure who to) but friggin' PoltPrime of all people won. He was cocky and playing like crap in that time, now at least it seems he has started playing solid again.
On March 09 2011 16:38 sawedust wrote: Leenock needs to get back into Code S, I think he was unfairly singled out for the up and down matches last season. His dominant play so far shows that he's easily deserving of going back. With that said I think he wins over Losira.
For the second match, Toss players have been cruising through the GSL when going up against Terrans with very few exceptions. For that reason and based on Alicia's play in his past few matches, I'd say he takes it over Supernova.
Unfairly singled out? He lost to NEXLiveForever, and then got a free chance, which he lost (not sure who to) but friggin' PoltPrime of all people won. He was cocky and playing like crap in that time, now at least it seems he has started playing solid again.
Leenock lost to Cezanne. A good player, at least, although Cezanne himself lost 1-2 to PoltPrime in the finals of that mini-tournament.
I'm also a bit disappointed we're only seeing a BO3 in the semis. All four players have shown solid and/or amazing play so far and a BO5 could be a lot more entertaining and fair (in regards to properly judging skill) than just 2-3 games.
On March 09 2011 16:38 sawedust wrote: Leenock needs to get back into Code S, I think he was unfairly singled out for the up and down matches last season. His dominant play so far shows that he's easily deserving of going back. With that said I think he wins over Losira.
For the second match, Toss players have been cruising through the GSL when going up against Terrans with very few exceptions. For that reason and based on Alicia's play in his past few matches, I'd say he takes it over Supernova.
Unfairly singled out? He lost to NEXLiveForever, and then got a free chance, which he lost (not sure who to) but friggin' PoltPrime of all people won. He was cocky and playing like crap in that time, now at least it seems he has started playing solid again.
He did play poorly at that time, but cocky?! What in the world makes you make this statement? Don't forget he still attends school, he might not have had time to practice before those up/down matches, at least, that's what I assumed at that time.
Go Leenock, I have faith!
Edit : so much hate for Losira, this is pretty funny. Why does everyone hate him?
On March 09 2011 16:38 sawedust wrote: Leenock needs to get back into Code S, I think he was unfairly singled out for the up and down matches last season. His dominant play so far shows that he's easily deserving of going back. With that said I think he wins over Losira.
For the second match, Toss players have been cruising through the GSL when going up against Terrans with very few exceptions. For that reason and based on Alicia's play in his past few matches, I'd say he takes it over Supernova.
Unfairly singled out? He lost to NEXLiveForever, and then got a free chance, which he lost (not sure who to) but friggin' PoltPrime of all people won. He was cocky and playing like crap in that time, now at least it seems he has started playing solid again.
He did play poorly at that time, but cocky?! What in the world makes you make this statement? Don't forget he still attends school, he might not have had time to practice before those up/down matches, at least, that's what I assumed at that time.
Go Leenock, I have faith!
Edit : so much hate for Losira, this is pretty funny. Why does everyone hate him?
I think he meant cocky as in, he completely underestimated his opponents.
In his games against NexLiveForever, he refused to get a baneling nest until 11 minutes in or later. I mean really?
On March 09 2011 16:38 sawedust wrote: Leenock needs to get back into Code S, I think he was unfairly singled out for the up and down matches last season. His dominant play so far shows that he's easily deserving of going back. With that said I think he wins over Losira.
For the second match, Toss players have been cruising through the GSL when going up against Terrans with very few exceptions. For that reason and based on Alicia's play in his past few matches, I'd say he takes it over Supernova.
Unfairly singled out? He lost to NEXLiveForever, and then got a free chance, which he lost (not sure who to) but friggin' PoltPrime of all people won. He was cocky and playing like crap in that time, now at least it seems he has started playing solid again.
He did play poorly at that time, but cocky?! What in the world makes you make this statement? Don't forget he still attends school, he might not have had time to practice before those up/down matches, at least, that's what I assumed at that time.
Go Leenock, I have faith!
Edit : so much hate for Losira, this is pretty funny. Why does everyone hate him?
On March 09 2011 16:14 skrzmark wrote: You're right, my bad I just copied and pasted without proofing it.
No big deal. At least you took the time to put it up. ♥
Edit: Can somebody explain the 1-liners "hwaiting" and "fighting" to me? "fighting" kind of makes sense, but the other one..
Koreans usually shout 'Fighting!' before the matches, and we westerners make fun of their accent by calling it `Hwaiting`. Thats how i understand it at least.
I was watching the casting duo, and trying to figure out what was irking me. It might be a part of working more together, but doa and kelly rarely make eye contact. I know its important to look at the audience, but synergy is what we're looking for, and if you're talking to one another look more towards them.
It's a little thing, maybe just some early casting nerves
On March 09 2011 18:11 bittman wrote: I was watching the casting duo, and trying to figure out what was irking me. It might be a part of working more together, but doa and kelly rarely make eye contact. I know its important to look at the audience, but synergy is what we're looking for, and if you're talking to one another look more towards them.
It's a little thing, maybe just some early casting nerves
Its only their second day casting together, give it time and they'll learn to work together.
On March 09 2011 18:11 bittman wrote: I was watching the casting duo, and trying to figure out what was irking me. It might be a part of working more together, but doa and kelly rarely make eye contact. I know its important to look at the audience, but synergy is what we're looking for, and if you're talking to one another look more towards them.
It's a little thing, maybe just some early casting nerves
Its only their second day casting together, give it time and they'll learn to work together.
Not to mention her heart belongs to tasteless, not that I blame her. he's so dreamy
Liking Doas style, nice voice and descriptions are pretty nice. Kelly isn't bad either. Not godmode commentary by any case but entertaining nonetheless. First time watching either of them.
Now, did I hear correctly that the commentators were thinking Leenock was ahead for the majority of the game? I was confused throughout the game, since Losira looked to be well ahead.
Actually it looks like Losira LITTERALY attacked ~15 seconds BEFORE +1 armor was finished, not while it was finished. It was basically a (lucky?) timing window which he abused. The battle would have been so much different of Laenok has +1 armor finished at that point, he should have retreated back to his main and expo(to get a flanking concave) and increase the time that his roaches benefit of the +1 armor.
+1 armor obviously does not matter that much when it comes to roaches, but it still matters when there such a large amount of roaches.
On March 09 2011 18:22 kirbynator wrote: kelly killing me already
i wish she didnt
sigh my ears
Actualy until now she didn't disturbed me, but now there is too much contrast between the suave DOA voice and the aggressive kelly's voice, that require some effort to understand
Now, did I hear correctly that the commentators were thinking Leenock was ahead for the majority of the game? I was confused throughout the game, since Losira looked to be well ahead.
Yeh it was confusing. I think the casters were focussing on tech, which Leenock was always ahead on. But Losira had the drone advantage.
ZvZ and PvP are so boring to watch. All comes down to who has more roaches/stalkers and who manages to squeeze in a little macro advantage here or there.
Leenock looked ahead for most of the time, especially with that ling micro against the banelings. I guess Losira successfully attacking the natural in the middle of the game made the difference.
On March 09 2011 18:22 kirbynator wrote: kelly killing me already
i wish she didnt
sigh my ears
This. It's not even just her voice, she's flat out wrong about half the stuff she says.
Like just, "Leenock's ahead in upgrades so he might win!". No, no he wasn't. They both had +1 attack and Leenock's +1 armour was around 15-20seconds away from finishing which meant the attack from Losira was a perfect timing.
commentators didn't notice how the zergling runby into the natural killed a ton of drones and stopped mining... thats how LosirA got so far ahead. Losira was so far ahead the entire game...
On March 09 2011 18:22 Kipsate wrote: Actually it looks like Losira LITTERALY attacked ~15 seconds BEFORE +1 armor was finished, not while it was finished. It was basically a (lucky?) timing window which he abused. The battle would have been so much different of Laenok has +1 armor finished at that point, he should have retreated back to his main and expo(to get a flanking concave) and increase the time that his roaches benefit of the +1 armor.
1/1 roaches versus 1/0 offers next to no difference in survivability. Only when +2 kicks in does the amount of shots it takes to kill a roach begin to vary. There was a thread doing extensive research on Roach v Roach upgrades in the strategy fourm.
Losira won on the sheer force of those 10 extra drones giving him the economy to make more roaches, not to mention Leenock put more into lair/glial/carapace which cost him additional roaches.
The reason it was 49 Drones to Losira and 39 to Leenock was because of that earlier zergling runby done by Losira which killed a bunch of drones at the natural and his queen. Seems casters forgot this part of the game.
On March 09 2011 18:23 Shockk wrote: ZvZ and PvP are so boring to watch. All comes down to who has more roaches/stalkers and who manages to squeeze in a little macro advantage here or there.
Leenock looked ahead for most of the time, especially with that ling micro against the banelings. I guess Losira successfully attacking the natural in the middle of the game made the difference.
PvP you are right, but ZvZ is amazing when you get past the ling bane and giant roach push stage.
When Leenock lost his queen, the game was over already. That puts him about 12 larvas behind (the time to make another queen), no way to recover from that. Zerg should always make an emergency queen in case they lose one. (I mean, making the queen before losing one)
On March 09 2011 18:24 storm44 wrote: There needs to be a mute kelly button because honestly I have no idea what she is saying and its really ruining the experience for me -_-
u not english and like men? well thats :\ ok I guess
Yeah, I don't mind her voice, although it's less than thrilling, it's just the amount of mistakes she makes. I remember one game she was casting where it was a terran doing a timing push against a protoss and she's like: "He forgot stim! He forgot stim!" And the production tab is open and I see stim 90% done being researched and then the terran stims when the battle starts and she's like "Oh..." I don't care what she sounds like, her game knowledge and awareness is low for a caster at this level IMHO.
On March 09 2011 18:25 MrCon wrote: When Leenock lost his queen, the game was over already. That puts him about 12 larvas behind (the time to make another queen), no way to recover from that. Zerg should always make an emergency queen in case they lose one. (I mean, making the queen before losing one)
Thats a great point about the queen. Leenock really missed that extra production and it showed.
Dunno about emergency queens though, maybe just dont let lings run by.
On March 09 2011 18:27 Dominating wrote: Yeah, I don't mind her voice, although it's less than thrilling, it's just the amount of mistakes she makes. I remember one game she was casting where it was a terran doing a timing push against a protoss and she's like: "He forgot stim! He forgot stim!" And the production tab is open and I see stim 90% done being researched and then the terran stims when the battle starts and she's like "Oh..." I don't care what she sounds like, her game knowledge and awareness is low for a caster at this level IMHO.
Yeah because Tasteless hasn't made mistakes like that before ever.
Damn it just clicked, this new caster totally sounds like one of those radio hosts who does like the midnight show on some station that plays love songs. Just imagine him reading out dedications "Losira this baneling is just for you, keep it close to your heart "
On March 09 2011 18:24 storm44 wrote: There needs to be a mute kelly button because honestly I have no idea what she is saying and its really ruining the experience for me -_-
u not english and like men? well thats :\ ok I guess
On March 09 2011 18:25 MrCon wrote: When Leenock lost his queen, the game was over already. That puts him about 12 larvas behind (the time to make another queen), no way to recover from that. Zerg should always make an emergency queen in case they lose one. (I mean, making the queen before losing one)
Thats a great point about the queen. Leenock really missed that extra production and it showed.
Dunno about emergency queens though, maybe just dont let lings run by.
On March 09 2011 18:28 Dominating wrote: I fail to see where in my post I said that Tasteless has never made a mistake casting. Could you point it out to me?
Well it's kind of annoying that Kelly gets so much hate for a mistake but when Tasteless says something stupid no one says anything.
On March 09 2011 18:28 Dominating wrote: I fail to see where in my post I said that Tasteless has never made a mistake casting. Could you point it out to me?
Well it's kind of annoying that Kelly gets so much hate for a mistake but when Tasteless says something stupid no one says anything.
On March 09 2011 18:28 Dominating wrote: I fail to see where in my post I said that Tasteless has never made a mistake casting. Could you point it out to me?
Well it's kind of annoying that Kelly gets so much hate for a mistake but when Tasteless says something stupid no one says anything.
WHERES THE LOVE
I dare you to hate tasteless. It can't be done. Just flat out cannot be done. Try it, you'll fail at it. Can't be done.
On March 09 2011 18:28 Dominating wrote: I fail to see where in my post I said that Tasteless has never made a mistake casting. Could you point it out to me?
Well it's kind of annoying that Kelly gets so much hate for a mistake but when Tasteless says something stupid no one says anything.
WHERES THE LOVE
I dare you to hate tasteless. It can't be done. Just flat out cannot be done. Try it, you'll fail at it. Can't be done.
artosis is there to correct tasteless though..doa is half spouting wrong things and half being unsure of what to say because of unfamiliarity with the game
On March 09 2011 18:32 ffadicted wrote: Kelly > Doa guys, let's face it. Not saying that either are bad, I don't mind either, but I'd pick kelly over doa any day.
On March 09 2011 18:28 Dominating wrote: I fail to see where in my post I said that Tasteless has never made a mistake casting. Could you point it out to me?
Well it's kind of annoying that Kelly gets so much hate for a mistake but when Tasteless says something stupid no one says anything.
On March 09 2011 18:18 MrCon wrote: Seriously, fuck those colors, we can't see who is who in battle ><
Hit F5, click on Video tab on the left then adjust your settings in Video Control (brightness and etc.).
yeah, I use the control panel (F7), but still, why not use better colors for ZvZ ?
I forget what season it was, but they used to use Red v. Yellow I think it was. I'd really like to see Red v. Teal maybe to really get that contrast going. I find PvP to be much more difficult to tell who is who, though.
Thats the difference between being the best zerg in your team vs getting to train with Nestea. Losira being really scary, although Alicia is being even scarier.
On March 09 2011 18:32 ffadicted wrote: Kelly > Doa guys, let's face it. Not saying that either are bad, I don't mind either, but I'd pick kelly over doa any day.
On March 09 2011 18:32 Kokujin wrote: artosis is there to correct tasteless though..doa is half spouting wrong things and half being unsure of what to say because of unfamiliarity with the game
This is true but doesn't mean everyone should jump on Kelly just because she doesn't have Artosis with her...
On March 09 2011 18:31 HowardRoark wrote: I think Losira is the best Z in the world at the moment, would you agree?
Not at all, at least based on what we've seen so far; especially some of his GSTL matches were painful to watch. He has played a few solid code A games this time around, but it's way too early to say much else. It's kind of funny how quick people are to crown someone the best; see july, leenock. Indeed, both were crowned "best" or "top" players months ago and then they performed quite poorly for a while and now that they played a few decent games, they were once again deemed "best"
On March 09 2011 18:31 HowardRoark wrote: I think Losira is the best Z in the world at the moment, would you agree?
Not at all, at least based on what we've seen so far; especially some of his GSTL matches were painful to watch. He has played a few solid code A games this time around, but it's way too early to say much else.
On March 09 2011 18:32 Kokujin wrote: artosis is there to correct tasteless though..doa is half spouting wrong things and half being unsure of what to say because of unfamiliarity with the game
Well let's face it, Artosis is pretty much the only caster with great knowledge of the game. Even Day9 says just flat out wrong things sometimes for example.
On March 09 2011 18:28 Dominating wrote: I fail to see where in my post I said that Tasteless has never made a mistake casting. Could you point it out to me?
Well it's kind of annoying that Kelly gets so much hate for a mistake but when Tasteless says something stupid no one says anything.
WHERES THE LOVE
Tasteless is a White American, you see.
Surprised it took this long for someone to play the race card.
Here's a thought. Maybe to be a good caster for a sport you don't have to predict everything right every single time. Maybe you provide an entertaining and informative broadcast about what's going on while another person provides analysis that you may or may not agree with!
On March 09 2011 18:31 HowardRoark wrote: I think Losira is the best Z in the world at the moment, would you agree?
July??
Lets be honest here, if the game goes past 10 minutes July loses. Too cheesy and all-inny player, which has been giving him terran kills. He hasn't played a zerg or protoss at all yet, I bet MC will 4-0 him in the finals.
On March 09 2011 18:36 Moonwrath wrote: Here's a thought. Maybe to be a good caster for a sport you don't have to predict everything right every single time. Maybe you provide an entertaining and informative broadcast about what's going on while another person provides analysis that you may or may not agree with!
On March 09 2011 18:18 MrCon wrote: Seriously, fuck those colors, we can't see who is who in battle ><
Hit F5, click on Video tab on the left then adjust your settings in Video Control (brightness and etc.).
yeah, I use the control panel (F7), but still, why not use better colors for ZvZ ?
I forget what season it was, but they used to use Red v. Yellow I think it was. I'd really like to see Red v. Teal maybe to really get that contrast going. I find PvP to be much more difficult to tell who is who, though.
Yeah, i am not really a big fan of red vs blue in mirror matchups either. Especially in ZvZ when there is creep everywhere its really hard to tell who's who.
I think best contrasting colors would be Yellow vs. Blue
Btw. anyone know why there is no black and white available?
On March 09 2011 18:31 HowardRoark wrote: I think Losira is the best Z in the world at the moment, would you agree?
July??
Lets be honest here, if the game goes past 10 minutes July loses. Too cheesy and all-inny player, which has been giving him terran kills. He hasn't played a zerg or protoss at all yet, I bet MC will 4-0 him in the finals.
I dare to say Losira looks like the best actual ZvZer. Though I didn't see a ZvZ from July, and Nestea is pretty sick too, I think Losira take the crown for this mirror.
Doa needs to learn some hype and casting lessons from artosis. Artosis really knows how to hype up an incoming battle by announcing which side could have a slight advantage or if the battle is SO CLOSE for both sides etc etc. things like what Doa just said at the end make me cringe like no other: The battle is GOING WELL for losira! Wait is it? No its not hes losing! (theres one spine crawler left) No Losiras attack is GOOD GG... I dunno. its just simple game sense mechanics that these new casters don't have yet. Good thing is that it improves over time so I'm very excited for the next season of Code A. I feel if the casters can be coached in game knowledge in the offseasons by pro players their commentaries will be SO much better. I feel like we've just been spoiled by having two charismatic pro players AND casters commentate for us that its difficult for us to follow along with casters when we feel like we know better.
On March 09 2011 18:18 MrCon wrote: Seriously, fuck those colors, we can't see who is who in battle ><
Hit F5, click on Video tab on the left then adjust your settings in Video Control (brightness and etc.).
yeah, I use the control panel (F7), but still, why not use better colors for ZvZ ?
I forget what season it was, but they used to use Red v. Yellow I think it was. I'd really like to see Red v. Teal maybe to really get that contrast going. I find PvP to be much more difficult to tell who is who, though.
Yeah, i am not really a big fan of red vs blue in mirror matchups either. Especially in ZvZ when there is creep everywhere its really hard to tell who's who.
I think best contrasting colors would be Yellow vs. Blue
Btw. anyone know why there is no black and white available?
I'm guessing it has to do with being able to hide units. At least for black being better suited for dark maps. White also may blend your units together a bit too much for something like zerglings to make it hard to determine how many of them there really are.
On March 09 2011 18:31 HowardRoark wrote: I think Losira is the best Z in the world at the moment, would you agree?
July??
Lets be honest here, if the game goes past 10 minutes July loses. Too cheesy and all-inny player, which has been giving him terran kills. He hasn't played a zerg or protoss at all yet, I bet MC will 4-0 him in the finals.
What?? I agree July may not be the best, but dont start saying July cant play the late game. Because thats ridiculous.
On March 09 2011 18:31 HowardRoark wrote: I think Losira is the best Z in the world at the moment, would you agree?
July??
Lets be honest here, if the game goes past 10 minutes July loses. Too cheesy and all-inny player, which has been giving him terran kills. He hasn't played a zerg or protoss at all yet, I bet MC will 4-0 him in the finals.
Game 5 of July vs NaDa
^Horrible mistakes by nada. Actually, the whole series was the same mistake, WAY WAY late tank siege. The 2 wins by nada were july failing all ins
It just seems like such a large map for an early timing push... I'm just not fond of the incredibly long reinforcing siege line. Idk though. Just took the gold expo! This hopefully will be a great macro set to make up for the quick 2-0 from Losira.
On March 09 2011 18:31 HowardRoark wrote: I think Losira is the best Z in the world at the moment, would you agree?
July??
Lets be honest here, if the game goes past 10 minutes July loses. Too cheesy and all-inny player, which has been giving him terran kills. He hasn't played a zerg or protoss at all yet, I bet MC will 4-0 him in the finals.
On March 09 2011 18:31 HowardRoark wrote: I think Losira is the best Z in the world at the moment, would you agree?
July??
Lets be honest here, if the game goes past 10 minutes July loses. Too cheesy and all-inny player, which has been giving him terran kills. He hasn't played a zerg or protoss at all yet, I bet MC will 4-0 him in the finals.
Game 5 of July vs NaDa
^Horrible mistakes by nada. Actually, the whole series was the same mistake, WAY WAY late tank siege. The 2 wins by nada were july failing all ins
You can't even get your facts straight. You're wrong. Let's leave it at that.
On March 09 2011 18:28 Dominating wrote: I fail to see where in my post I said that Tasteless has never made a mistake casting. Could you point it out to me?
Well it's kind of annoying that Kelly gets so much hate for a mistake but when Tasteless says something stupid no one says anything.
WHERES THE LOVE
Tasteless is a White American, you see.
Surprised it took this long for someone to play the race card.
I don't want to argue this while Supernova is going mech. PM me if you're offended, and check out the LR thread when Kelly first appeared, and there were 40+ bans and InControl was making...distasteful jokes at her expense on his stream.
On March 09 2011 18:31 HowardRoark wrote: I think Losira is the best Z in the world at the moment, would you agree?
July??
Lets be honest here, if the game goes past 10 minutes July loses. Too cheesy and all-inny player, which has been giving him terran kills. He hasn't played a zerg or protoss at all yet, I bet MC will 4-0 him in the finals.
if you're trying to prove a point atleast get the fact's straight, he did meet MC in the group stages but he did loose. Also the deciding game vs nada was 30 min long.
On March 09 2011 18:31 HowardRoark wrote: I think Losira is the best Z in the world at the moment, would you agree?
July??
Lets be honest here, if the game goes past 10 minutes July loses. Too cheesy and all-inny player, which has been giving him terran kills. He hasn't played a zerg or protoss at all yet, I bet MC will 4-0 him in the finals.
What?? I agree July may not be the best, but dont start saying July cant play the late game. Because thats ridiculous.
Have you ever seen him win a game DECISIVELLY past the 10 min mark?
I dislike how she says "this one" so much ><. doa has a Freudian slip and says "orgy" LOL. and he says "he doesnt have enough to engage" then alicia engages ><
On March 09 2011 18:31 HowardRoark wrote: I think Losira is the best Z in the world at the moment, would you agree?
July??
Lets be honest here, if the game goes past 10 minutes July loses. Too cheesy and all-inny player, which has been giving him terran kills. He hasn't played a zerg or protoss at all yet, I bet MC will 4-0 him in the finals.
What?? I agree July may not be the best, but dont start saying July cant play the late game. Because thats ridiculous.
Have you ever seen him win a game DECISIVELLY past the 10 min mark?
great use of bunkers, that first counter attack by alicia seemed dumb, he didnt kill much and lost a lot of units.. was better just slow that push and get 3-4 immortals while slowing his army with ff's.
On March 09 2011 18:31 HowardRoark wrote: I think Losira is the best Z in the world at the moment, would you agree?
July??
Lets be honest here, if the game goes past 10 minutes July loses. Too cheesy and all-inny player, which has been giving him terran kills. He hasn't played a zerg or protoss at all yet, I bet MC will 4-0 him in the finals.
What?? I agree July may not be the best, but dont start saying July cant play the late game. Because thats ridiculous.
Have you ever seen him win a game DECISIVELLY past the 10 min mark?
Actually, yes. Like 80% of them. But well, yeah, you're right, Nada was so bad this day, he sieged so late, didn't make 4 thors + 8 drops + take 8 bases + turtle at the same time, could'nt handle a non stop muta harrass... pff what a nubbin. July is one lucky cheeser, achieving Ro4 Code S with his all-in. He can't win if the game goes on a macro war after all, he didn't play BW he can't handle this kin...
On March 09 2011 18:48 kirbynator wrote: bah he lost when he decided to make a darkshrine at the same time supernova was starting a raven
Pretty much, no map control as a result and a huge investment into infrastructure (getting a third up, Darkshrine, robo, lots of gates), didn't really have anything to stall Supernova's push.
Interesting how much Supernova is playing Tank/Marine variations though
On March 09 2011 18:48 veganwa wrote: Does Kellymilkies have a bet with someone about how many times she's able to say "this one" or something?
She has down syndrome. Confirmed if you listen to her talk for more than 5 minutes, and aren't easy on her just because she's a woman. If Kelly was a guy with a half broken accent and said this much idiotic stuff the community would have banned together to make fun of the guy non stop... but no she's a girl so the white knights of the net won't fairly judge her on the fact that her commentating is RUINING GSL Code A.
On March 09 2011 18:31 HowardRoark wrote: I think Losira is the best Z in the world at the moment, would you agree?
July??
Lets be honest here, if the game goes past 10 minutes July loses. Too cheesy and all-inny player, which has been giving him terran kills. He hasn't played a zerg or protoss at all yet, I bet MC will 4-0 him in the finals.
What?? I agree July may not be the best, but dont start saying July cant play the late game. Because thats ridiculous.
Have you ever seen him win a game DECISIVELLY past the 10 min mark?
Actually, yes. Like 80% of them. But well, yeah, you're right, Nada was so bad this day, he sieged so late, didn't make 4 thors + 8 drops + take 8 bases + turtle at the same time, could'nt handle a non stop muta harrass... pff what a nubbin. July is one lucky cheeser, achieving Ro4 Code S with his all-in. He can't win if the game goes on a macro war after all, he didn't play BW he can't handle this kin...
Wait. Oh yeah you're right, u mad bro.
Again, this started with a reply to someone who said LosirA looked like the best Zerg atm. Can you honestly say July has showed more than Losira this season? At least Losira has beaten more than terrans, including long and short games, and mostly by completely demolishing his opponent, and this season the gap between A and S has been non-existing.
On March 09 2011 18:48 veganwa wrote: Does Kellymilkies have a bet with someone about how many times she's able to say "this one" or something?
She has down syndrome. Confirmed if you listen to her talk for more than 5 minutes, and aren't easy on her just because she's a woman. If Kelly was a guy with a half broken accent and said this much idiotic stuff the community would have banned together to make fun of the guy non stop... but no she's a girl so the white knights of the net won't fairly judge her on the fact that her commentating is RUINING GSL Code A.
Good contribution, you're the first to mention that you don't like her casting.
On March 09 2011 18:48 veganwa wrote: Does Kellymilkies have a bet with someone about how many times she's able to say "this one" or something?
She has down syndrome. Confirmed if you listen to her talk for more than 5 minutes, and aren't easy on her just because she's a woman. If Kelly was a guy with a half broken accent and said this much idiotic stuff the community would have banned together to make fun of the guy non stop... but no she's a girl so the white knights of the net won't fairly judge her on the fact that her commentating is RUINING GSL Code A.
Nah I'm pretty sure a lot of people don't mind her.
On March 09 2011 18:48 veganwa wrote: Does Kellymilkies have a bet with someone about how many times she's able to say "this one" or something?
She has down syndrome. Confirmed if you listen to her talk for more than 5 minutes, and aren't easy on her just because she's a woman. If Kelly was a guy with a half broken accent and said this much idiotic stuff the community would have banned together to make fun of the guy non stop... but no she's a girl so the white knights of the net won't fairly judge her on the fact that her commentating is RUINING GSL Code A.
I'm disappointed with the Bo3 semi-finals, even more disappointed with the game quality, and to top it off no casting archon = I might have to stop watching GSL Code A.
This guy isn't bad, but I hope he inspires people to shut the fuck up about Kelly. It's cool seeing her as the one adding insight instead of play-by-play. I hope they switch between casting pairs every now and then. Code A has had me watching more SC2 than before because of Kelly. I hope they continue to keep things fresh.
On March 09 2011 18:48 veganwa wrote: Does Kellymilkies have a bet with someone about how many times she's able to say "this one" or something?
She has down syndrome. Confirmed if you listen to her talk for more than 5 minutes, and aren't easy on her just because she's a woman. If Kelly was a guy with a half broken accent and said this much idiotic stuff the community would have banned together to make fun of the guy non stop... but no she's a girl so the white knights of the net won't fairly judge her on the fact that her commentating is RUINING GSL Code A.
Good luck in the bantown. Kelly is ok, not even close to Tasteless or Artosis but she is ok.
On March 09 2011 18:48 veganwa wrote: Does Kellymilkies have a bet with someone about how many times she's able to say "this one" or something?
She has down syndrome. Confirmed if you listen to her talk for more than 5 minutes, and aren't easy on her just because she's a woman. If Kelly was a guy with a half broken accent and said this much idiotic stuff the community would have banned together to make fun of the guy non stop... but no she's a girl so the white knights of the net won't fairly judge her on the fact that her commentating is RUINING GSL Code A.
On March 09 2011 18:48 veganwa wrote: Does Kellymilkies have a bet with someone about how many times she's able to say "this one" or something?
She has down syndrome. Confirmed if you listen to her talk for more than 5 minutes, and aren't easy on her just because she's a woman. If Kelly was a guy with a half broken accent and said this much idiotic stuff the community would have banned together to make fun of the guy non stop... but no she's a girl so the white knights of the net won't fairly judge her on the fact that her commentating is RUINING GSL Code A.
Good contribution, you're the first to mention that you don't like her casting.
If people just let her slide in... and the majority is against her, then it will not benefit the GSL, esports, or code A in anyway. If you like her then fine that's your right and I'm not going to bash you for it.
If she's back again next season I'm going to show my dislike through my money by not buying a season ticket and catching only code S from the free stream. Sure I'm one guy, but if more people start to think the same way, or at least stop tuning into code A, then maybe they will get the message that she needs to go. There's got to be a 100 other people better suited and more qualified for her position.
On March 09 2011 18:48 veganwa wrote: Does Kellymilkies have a bet with someone about how many times she's able to say "this one" or something?
She has down syndrome. Confirmed if you listen to her talk for more than 5 minutes, and aren't easy on her just because she's a woman. If Kelly was a guy with a half broken accent and said this much idiotic stuff the community would have banned together to make fun of the guy non stop... but no she's a girl so the white knights of the net won't fairly judge her on the fact that her commentating is RUINING GSL Code A.
Good luck in the bantown. Kelly is ok, not even close to Tasteless or Artosis but she is ok.
On March 09 2011 18:54 thopol wrote: This guy isn't bad, but I hope he inspires people to shut the fuck up about Kelly. It's cool seeing her as the one adding insight instead of play-by-play. I hope they switch between casting pairs every now and then. Code A has had me watching more SC2 than before because of Kelly. I hope they continue to keep things fresh.
Saying that someone who's 120 food behind stands a chance because they have 20 probes counts as adding insight? Good to know.
On March 09 2011 18:48 veganwa wrote: Does Kellymilkies have a bet with someone about how many times she's able to say "this one" or something?
She has down syndrome. Confirmed if you listen to her talk for more than 5 minutes, and aren't easy on her just because she's a woman. If Kelly was a guy with a half broken accent and said this much idiotic stuff the community would have banned together to make fun of the guy non stop... but no she's a girl so the white knights of the net won't fairly judge her on the fact that her commentating is RUINING GSL Code A.
Good contribution, you're the first to mention that you don't like her casting.
If people just let her slide in... and the majority is against her, then it will not benefit the GSL, esports, or code A in anyway. If you like her then fine that's your right and I'm not going to bash you for it.
If she's back again next season I'm going to show my dislike through my money by not buying a season ticket and catching only code S from the free stream. Sure I'm one guy, but if more people start to think the same way, or at least stop tuning into code A, then maybe they will get the message that she needs to go. There's got to be a 100 other people better suited and more qualified for her position.
is there some reliable information somewhere that the majority of the viewers are against her? Some people nagging on forums is not reliable information.
I like kelly as a caster. My inner-monologue is strategic analysis of sufficient depth; her excitement for the games is genuine, and that's all I really need from a caster.
On March 09 2011 18:54 thopol wrote: This guy isn't bad, but I hope he inspires people to shut the fuck up about Kelly. It's cool seeing her as the one adding insight instead of play-by-play. I hope they switch between casting pairs every now and then. Code A has had me watching more SC2 than before because of Kelly. I hope they continue to keep things fresh.
Saying that someone who's 120 food behind stands a chance because they have 20 probes counts as adding insight? Good to know.
Hey if Jim Carrey had a chance at the end of Dumb and Dumber, Alicia could too!
Now, when I said that I wasn't fond of Kelly's casting, I stated why. Just bashing her because of her accent isn't right. I said disliked her because she has lower game awareness than I would like to see. And if you're really NOT going to watch Sc2 matches simply because you dislike the caster, then you're obviously not an Sc2 fan. I don't like Kelly, I prefer Tastosis, but I still enjoy watching the games regardless. At least my opinion of her is based off of her casting abilities, not how she sounds/looks.
On March 09 2011 18:48 veganwa wrote: Does Kellymilkies have a bet with someone about how many times she's able to say "this one" or something?
white knights of the net won't fairly judge her on the fact that her commentating
Go away troll. not even quoting the whole thing cuz its so racist and messed up.
Troll? I stated a fine opinion. Racist? I didn't bring up her race once. What's messed up is how you are calling me a racist when I didn't mention her race or anyones race. Incredible.
I was watching it on a small screen and I couldn't understand how those collossi were still alive. Then I realized that huge clump of flying things were medivacs.
Forcefields make any vP match so painful to watch. It makes me cringe every time a T or Z army is split apart without any chance of doing anything against it. No balance whine; just shared pain of a T player.
With that in mind, I'm extremly happy Supernova actually held that attack and managed to cripple Alicia's eco with that banshee.
Laughing about this so hard right now. Read your post and went to hit quote, only to see that it had changed! That's what you get for calling things too soon!
On March 09 2011 19:02 Shockk wrote: Forcefields make any vP match so painful to watch. It makes me cringe every time a T or Z army is split apart without any chance of doing anything against it. No balance whine; just shared pain of a T player.
With that in mind, I'm extremly happy Supernova actually held that attack and managed to cripple Alicia's eco with that banshee.
On March 09 2011 19:02 scatmango2 wrote: Fucking terran the only comeback race.
The only reason he was able to come back was because Alicia just amoved into the base like an idiot, thinking that he had the game 100% and thus ignored the Banshee which was raping his probe line.
you know what i just realized? SlayerS_Alicia was recruited by boxer, oGsSuperNova was scouted by Nada so its kinda like their disciplines duking it out
On March 09 2011 19:04 Maskedsatyr wrote: Supernova clearly the better player
Strongly disagree.
Alicia out thought Supernova in both games. OGS won game 1 because he got lucky with the build order (Raven vs DT), and won game 2 because when they traded workers, the terran just built mules.
On March 09 2011 19:02 densha wrote: So is it PainUser that always says on State of the Game that he would rather have DTs than Banshees? I hope he's watching this match!
Protoss thinks imba about banshees early. Terran thinks imba about DTs late game.
And when they discuss it they are comparing openings with mapcontrol without realizing it.
Lost both liquibets to 2-0 games, I was hoping the games were going to be longer for some late night SC2 enjoyment.
Quite unfortunate for Alicia there in game two, should have checked back home. That banshee plus the hidden expo kept SuperNoVa in the game and eventually winning it.
On March 09 2011 19:04 Maskedsatyr wrote: Supernova clearly the better player
Strongly disagree.
Alicia out thought Supernova in both games. OGS won game 1 because he got lucky with the build order (Raven vs DT), and won game 2 because when they traded workers, the terran just built mules.
sure "traded workers" if u look at two bases from both, buth supernova had a third almost fully saturated (or atleast half)
I didn't think tonight's games were really all that interesting. Shame on Alicia for losing all his probes to the banshee's though, seems like it could have been prevented. Additionally, I have no trouble understanding kelly's voice and I think she's doing an ok job (but the new guy is baller and I approve immensely).
On March 09 2011 19:04 Maskedsatyr wrote: Supernova clearly the better player
Strongly disagree.
Alicia out thought Supernova in both games. OGS won game 1 because he got lucky with the build order (Raven vs DT), and won game 2 because when they traded workers, the terran just built mules.
On March 09 2011 19:04 Maskedsatyr wrote: Supernova clearly the better player
Strongly disagree.
Alicia out thought Supernova in both games. OGS won game 1 because he got lucky with the build order (Raven vs DT), and won game 2 because when they traded workers, the terran just built mules.
Did we watch the same game? Supernova won G2 because he had a third that Alicia failed to scout, and he actually controlled his army in Alicia's final push whereas Alicia already felt he had won and didn't even bother caring about the Banshee that shredded his eco.
That game wasn't won by mules, but by Alicia's sloppy play and false confidence in his skills. The better player overall won.
On March 09 2011 19:07 flexy wrote: that was amazing.. all the protoss CRYING WAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHNNN
As a toss I actually liked that game. Alicia has no excuse for letting a banshee do that much dmg once the robo is already up, plus he had like 3-4 observers on the field.
On March 09 2011 19:05 CScythe wrote: SuperNova is cool, gg to him and gl in the finals.
How the fuck can you say he's cool after disrespecting his opponent with a bm mule? Kids these days.....
Was a really good 2nd game though, that hidden exp was brilliant.
I don't think it's as BM as people really seem to imply. Just about every other Terran seem to do it in the GSL recently. The in-base CC might be more BM though, heh.
On March 09 2011 19:04 Maskedsatyr wrote: Supernova clearly the better player
Strongly disagree.
Alicia out thought Supernova in both games. OGS won game 1 because he got lucky with the build order (Raven vs DT), and won game 2 because when they traded workers, the terran just built mules.
yeah, he built mules from his extra, fully saturated 3rd. lol
On March 09 2011 19:04 Maskedsatyr wrote: Supernova clearly the better player
Strongly disagree.
Alicia out thought Supernova in both games. OGS won game 1 because he got lucky with the build order (Raven vs DT), and won game 2 because when they traded workers, the terran just built mules.
On March 09 2011 19:04 Maskedsatyr wrote: Supernova clearly the better player
Strongly disagree.
Alicia out thought Supernova in both games. OGS won game 1 because he got lucky with the build order (Raven vs DT), and won game 2 because when they traded workers, the terran just built mules.
yeah, he built mules from his extra, fully saturated 3rd. lol
Just another protoss trying to force their 'Terran OP' onto other people even though PvT is ridiculous right now. You shouldn't bother replying, to be honest.
On March 09 2011 19:05 CScythe wrote: SuperNova is cool, gg to him and gl in the finals.
How the fuck can you say he's cool after disrespecting his opponent with a bm mule? Kids these days.....
Was a really good 2nd game though, that hidden exp was brilliant.
OMG HE DROPPED A MULE THATS SO RUDDDE!
serious or?
Super serious. Combined with the cc in the 1st game I think he's a dick.
There might be some history between the two players. Plus the added drama makes it a little more intriguing for the spectators, if two of the players hate each other then we all get to pick sides ~_~
On March 09 2011 19:03 Hellhammer wrote: Super nova is out of this world.
Nice.
That was one of the greatest comebacks ever, although it was purely from Alicia's sloppiness.
Why is that a comeback? He had a hidden expansion semisaturated, while the banshee killed most of alicia's probes. Sounds to me like a lead.
I would agree. That wasn't a comeback in the slightest. He was never really behind.
While it wasn't a comeback, Alicia could've won tht match had he just defended against the banshees. But he thought it was gg and got too careless and had no idea how good Supernova's economy was. All Supernova had to do was survive tht push and he would've won and thts wat he did. Tho not without mistakes from his opponent.
On March 09 2011 19:04 Maskedsatyr wrote: Supernova clearly the better player
Strongly disagree.
Alicia out thought Supernova in both games. OGS won game 1 because he got lucky with the build order (Raven vs DT), and won game 2 because when they traded workers, the terran just built mules.
yeah, he built mules from his extra, fully saturated 3rd. lol
The banshee did not kill as many workers as the toss push did. Also, the toss push killed quite a few structures.
It's true that terran had more workers left due to the 3rd base, but in a worker trade off, the mules will win every game for the terran, which is what happened.
On March 09 2011 19:04 Maskedsatyr wrote: Supernova clearly the better player
Strongly disagree.
Alicia out thought Supernova in both games. OGS won game 1 because he got lucky with the build order (Raven vs DT), and won game 2 because when they traded workers, the terran just built mules.
How did he outthink SuperNova exactly? Built a raven completely nullifying the DTs, that would seem more like Nova outthought Alicia, and in game 2 SuperNova had 37 scvs after Alicias attack compared to 10 probes after the banshe rape, Alicia just didn't deal with it at all and has no-one to blame but himself for being beaten.
On March 09 2011 19:04 Maskedsatyr wrote: Supernova clearly the better player
Strongly disagree.
Alicia out thought Supernova in both games. OGS won game 1 because he got lucky with the build order (Raven vs DT), and won game 2 because when they traded workers, the terran just built mules.
Alicia actually made bad calls by going DTs in game one (he saw banshee and the siege expand) it should be pretty obvious that he'd push out with a raven. DTs got cought in the middle of the map aswell, which was really bad.
Regarding game2; you're just confused... It wasnt even close. SuperNova had all production going, income to reproduce and wiped out almost all income from protoss who had very few gateways and invested heavily into a 1-punch push. With the low gateway count he couldnt defend properly vs the Banshee. Alicia got outplayed T_T.
On March 09 2011 19:12 mr_tolkien wrote: I don't get how you can be «lucky» in a game with near 0 randomisation and on a move your opponent was aware of...
it's not lucky but some people just dont wanna realise
On March 09 2011 19:04 Maskedsatyr wrote: Supernova clearly the better player
Strongly disagree.
Alicia out thought Supernova in both games. OGS won game 1 because he got lucky with the build order (Raven vs DT), and won game 2 because when they traded workers, the terran just built mules.
I love the contradictions in these statements.
Care to elaborate?
not particularly, they are already there all you have to do is apply some basic logic ;p
On March 09 2011 19:04 Maskedsatyr wrote: Supernova clearly the better player
Strongly disagree.
Alicia out thought Supernova in both games. OGS won game 1 because he got lucky with the build order (Raven vs DT), and won game 2 because when they traded workers, the terran just built mules.
yeah, he built mules from his extra, fully saturated 3rd. lol
The banshee did not kill as many workers as the toss push did. Also, the toss push killed quite a few structures.
It's true that terran had more workers left due to the 3rd base, but in a worker trade off, the mules will win every game for the terran, which is what happened.
Supernova had a fully saturated base. Mules or not, after Alicia let all his probes die, he had lost.
On March 09 2011 19:12 mr_tolkien wrote: I don't get how you can be «lucky» in a game with near 0 randomisation and on a move your opponent was aware of...
Such a bad day for the GSL, tbh... It was over in an hour. IMO, that's just really sad.
I'm not really liking the fact that majority of the series in the GSL have been one-sided, either, with a TON of 2-0 wins, though that might just be personal preference.
On March 09 2011 19:12 mr_tolkien wrote: I don't get how you can be «lucky» in a game with near 0 randomisation and on a move your opponent was aware of...
it's not lucky but some people just dont wanna realise
Of course Blame luck, blame imbalance Everything but the player
On March 09 2011 19:11 hi im new wrote: hows that 'bm' shit bad? it just adds entertainment. think back to gstl losira/st dancing. i lol'd for minutes.
lol yea the in-game antics are great and add entertainment. that dance in the gstl was made even greater since losira would end up losing lol.
On March 09 2011 19:04 Maskedsatyr wrote: Supernova clearly the better player
Strongly disagree.
Alicia out thought Supernova in both games. OGS won game 1 because he got lucky with the build order (Raven vs DT), and won game 2 because when they traded workers, the terran just built mules.
yeah, he built mules from his extra, fully saturated 3rd. lol
The banshee did not kill as many workers as the toss push did. Also, the toss push killed quite a few structures.
It's true that terran had more workers left due to the 3rd base, but in a worker trade off, the mules will win every game for the terran, which is what happened.
watch the game again. and stop crying about mules.
On March 09 2011 19:12 mr_tolkien wrote: I don't get how you can be «lucky» in a game with near 0 randomisation and on a move your opponent was aware of...
You contest that "build order wins" don't exist?
Ofc they do, but when you choose a tech path even with alot of information it's hardly luck based. The player makes a choice based on what he sees and if he does the wrong one, it'll backfire.
Then noobs will come to forums and say "it was a buildorder loss, Terran got lucky!".
Build order wins are usually luck. Last GSL, MVP demolished MC because he went for DT's. Does that suggest that MVP is far superior, or that luck was simply in play.
Mules winning the game in a worker tradeoff isn't a racial imbalance, it's simply a perk that terran has, which allows them to recover from base trade/near base trade far better than the other two races.
It's merely something that's ignored when unit comparisons are done.
I think Alicia's game plan in game 1 was to use DTs to keep terran contained while he cashed in on the gold minerals, bad decision i think since he saw the banshee which meant that a raven could be easily made to counter DTs =/.
Game 2 was just a bit of overconfidence, at that point he didn't even have resources to keep his warpgates pumping because his probes were dropping so fast. If he had waited a bit in the natural of Supernova and warped in stalkers to defend his own base, i think he coulda had the game in the bag. But losing all his probes resulted into turning the push into an all in with almost no reinforcements.
On the other hand, oGs must be happy, they are looking at possibly both their second Code A and Code S championships. Theres a good chance of them taking both golds this season.
On March 09 2011 19:04 Maskedsatyr wrote: Supernova clearly the better player
Strongly disagree.
Alicia out thought Supernova in both games. OGS won game 1 because he got lucky with the build order (Raven vs DT), and won game 2 because when they traded workers, the terran just built mules.
yeah, he built mules from his extra, fully saturated 3rd. lol
The banshee did not kill as many workers as the toss push did. Also, the toss push killed quite a few structures.
It's true that terran had more workers left due to the 3rd base, but in a worker trade off, the mules will win every game for the terran, which is what happened.
watch the game again. and stop crying about mules.
Seriously get over yourself. why must some whiny people have to bring up game balance? Mules didn't win that, SN had a fully mining base and Alicia only had a few probes left, he had twice the supply.
I have to say that after not having watched Code A for a while, I really enjoyed the commentary today. It was entertaining, DOA is a cool guy, I like his attitude and I somehow don't mind Kelly's accent anymore. I think both are doing fine and they kinda match. Looking forward to see more of them, I believe they will get better as time progresses.
On March 09 2011 19:18 HankScorpio wrote: Build orders are usually luck.
Mules winning the game in a worker tradeoff isn't a racial imbalance, it's simply a perk that terran has, which allows them to recover from base trade/near base trade far better than the other two races.
It's merely something that's ignored when unit comparisons are done.
Well then don't base trade a terran?
And honestly, mule or no mule, terran had that game. So stop harping on the mule... especially in terms of this game - it made no difference, terran was way ahead
On March 09 2011 19:18 HankScorpio wrote: Build order wins are usually luck. Last GSL, MVP demolished MC because he went for DT's. Does that suggest that MVP is far superior, or that luck was simply in play.
Mules winning the game in a worker tradeoff isn't a racial imbalance, it's simply a perk that terran has, which allows them to recover from base trade/near base trade far better than the other two races.
It's merely something that's ignored when unit comparisons are done.
Seriously go away... You're trolling hard. You first apply bullshit to game2 that just was not true, and then you take that bullshit and apply your universal knowledge of mules and how that won terran the game. Gj!
You don't seem to understand the concept of scouting and how that affects a players choice of buildorder. The choice itself if it is completly blind, could be called luck, but that's pretty much NEVER the case. Players make wrong decisions though, and we see it frequently still.
The most epic casting fail ever. Kelly with her deaf person accent talking nonsense about the battle while the banshee kills off the attackers economy. The casters couldn't imagine someone could come back with 10 barracks and a secret base.
On March 09 2011 19:18 HankScorpio wrote: Build orders are usually luck.
Mules winning the game in a worker tradeoff isn't a racial imbalance, it's simply a perk that terran has, which allows them to recover from base trade/near base trade far better than the other two races.
It's merely something that's ignored when unit comparisons are done.
Well then don't base trade a terran?
And honestly, mule or no mule, terran had that game. So stop harping on the mule... especially in terms of this game - it made no difference, terran was way ahead
Easier said then done. I'm sure Alicia's intent there wasn't to base trade, but he could have pushed with those 6 or so stalkers he had, or he could have pushed with 2 stalkers and left 4 stalkers and 2 observers to guard his mineral lines...
i'd hestitate to say though that the Terran hidden expansion was much better than the Protoss hidden gold expansion (in game 1), by and large because chrono isnt as good as mule in the immediate short term, which allowed Supernova to re-form his army quicker for another push....
On March 09 2011 19:18 HankScorpio wrote: Build orders are usually luck.
Mules winning the game in a worker tradeoff isn't a racial imbalance, it's simply a perk that terran has, which allows them to recover from base trade/near base trade far better than the other two races.
It's merely something that's ignored when unit comparisons are done.
Well then don't base trade a terran?
And honestly, mule or no mule, terran had that game. So stop harping on the mule... especially in terms of this game - it made no difference, terran was way ahead
Easier said then done. I'm sure Alicia's intent there wasn't to base trade, but he could have pushed with those 6 or so stalkers he had, or he could have pushed with 2 stalkers and left 4 stalkers and 2 observers to guard his mineral lines...
I dont think he could have left any stalkers behind - primarily as i think the vikings would have prevailed over the collossus if it werent for 1 or 2 stalkers remaining.
On March 09 2011 19:18 HankScorpio wrote: Build order wins are usually luck. Last GSL, MVP demolished MC because he went for DT's. Does that suggest that MVP is far superior, or that luck was simply in play.
Mules winning the game in a worker tradeoff isn't a racial imbalance, it's simply a perk that terran has, which allows them to recover from base trade/near base trade far better than the other two races.
It's merely something that's ignored when unit comparisons are done.
Seriously go away... You're trolling hard. You first apply bullshit to game2 that just was not true, and then you take that bullshit and apply your universal knowledge of mules and how that won terran the game. Gj!
You don't seem to understand the concept of scouting and how that affects a players choice of buildorder. The choice itself if it is completly blind, could be called luck, but that's pretty much NEVER the case. Players make wrong decisions though, and we see it frequently still.
The Terran won because of that 3rd base. If he didn't have that 3rd base he would have won because of mules after the worker trade. It's not an imbalance, it's just something that happens with terran.
As far as it Never being the case...Is this your first time watching GSL? Genius lost a couple of seasons ago because he went blind DT vs blind Banshee. Build order loss. I already pointed out the MVP vs MC game.
Blind build orders happen ALL THE Time, and merely failing to notice it does not make you right or even coherent.
On March 09 2011 19:26 worosei wrote: i'd hestitate to say though that the Terran hidden expansion was much better than the Protoss hidden gold expansion (in game 1), by and large because chrono isnt as good as mule in the immediate short term, which allowed Supernova to re-form his army quicker for another push....
I wish Alicia defended his natural better
Sssh. You better edit that post before the terran throngs on this board attack you for pointing out the strength of mules.
On March 09 2011 19:18 HankScorpio wrote: Build order wins are usually luck. Last GSL, MVP demolished MC because he went for DT's. Does that suggest that MVP is far superior, or that luck was simply in play.
Both. Jinro was the inferior player for going thor rush in the first place. If you play a build that auto-loses to a common opening, it's a bad play/gamble.
On March 09 2011 19:18 HankScorpio wrote: Build order wins are usually luck. Last GSL, MVP demolished MC because he went for DT's. Does that suggest that MVP is far superior, or that luck was simply in play.
Mules winning the game in a worker tradeoff isn't a racial imbalance, it's simply a perk that terran has, which allows them to recover from base trade/near base trade far better than the other two races.
It's merely something that's ignored when unit comparisons are done.
Seriously go away... You're trolling hard. You first apply bullshit to game2 that just was not true, and then you take that bullshit and apply your universal knowledge of mules and how that won terran the game. Gj!
You don't seem to understand the concept of scouting and how that affects a players choice of buildorder. The choice itself if it is completly blind, could be called luck, but that's pretty much NEVER the case. Players make wrong decisions though, and we see it frequently still.
The Terran won because of that 3rd base. If he didn't have that 3rd base he would have won because of mules after the worker trade. It's not an imbalance, it's just something that happens with terran.
As far as it Never being the case...Is this your first time watching GSL? Genius lost a couple of seasons ago because he went blind DT vs blind Banshee. Build order loss. I already pointed out the MVP vs MC game.
Blind build orders happen ALL THE Time, and merely failing to notice it does not make you right or even coherent.
That's because a blind DT play is a HUGE RISK
Think about yesterday's game with hongun and MC for instance TWICE hongun went for a DT rush, and both times he lost to a 4gate, which hit him before his DT finished
But that's totally his fault for playing so risky, or not scouting, and not luck
EVERY BUILD has it's risk for instance massing roaches will see you getting owned by anything that flies going MMM against toss in the late game could potentially get you in a lot of trouble if he's getting his templar tech up
gambling IRL has it's risks, and so will gambling in game
On March 09 2011 19:18 HankScorpio wrote: Build order wins are usually luck. Last GSL, MVP demolished MC because he went for DT's. Does that suggest that MVP is far superior, or that luck was simply in play.
Mules winning the game in a worker tradeoff isn't a racial imbalance, it's simply a perk that terran has, which allows them to recover from base trade/near base trade far better than the other two races.
It's merely something that's ignored when unit comparisons are done.
Seriously go away... You're trolling hard. You first apply bullshit to game2 that just was not true, and then you take that bullshit and apply your universal knowledge of mules and how that won terran the game. Gj!
You don't seem to understand the concept of scouting and how that affects a players choice of buildorder. The choice itself if it is completly blind, could be called luck, but that's pretty much NEVER the case. Players make wrong decisions though, and we see it frequently still.
The Terran won because of that 3rd base. If he didn't have that 3rd base he would have won because of mules after the worker trade. It's not an imbalance, it's just something that happens with terran.
As far as it Never being the case...Is this your first time watching GSL? Genius lost a couple of seasons ago because he went blind DT vs blind Banshee. Build order loss. I already pointed out the MVP vs MC game.
Blind build orders happen ALL THE Time, and merely failing to notice it does not make you right or even coherent.
That's because a blind DT play is a HUGE RISK
Think about yesterday's game with hongun and MC for instance TWICE hongun went for a DT rush, and both times he lost to a 4gate, which hit him before his DT finished
But that's totally his fault for playing so risky, or not scouting, and not luck
EVERY BUILD has it's risk for instance massing roaches will see you getting owned by anything that flies going MMM against toss in the late game could potentially get you in a lot of trouble if he's getting his templar tech up
gambling IRL has it's risks, and so will gambling in game
Yep.
Gambling is a risk. And risk is dependent on luck. Ergo my point.
On March 09 2011 19:18 HankScorpio wrote: Build order wins are usually luck. Last GSL, MVP demolished MC because he went for DT's. Does that suggest that MVP is far superior, or that luck was simply in play.
Mules winning the game in a worker tradeoff isn't a racial imbalance, it's simply a perk that terran has, which allows them to recover from base trade/near base trade far better than the other two races.
It's merely something that's ignored when unit comparisons are done.
Seriously go away... You're trolling hard. You first apply bullshit to game2 that just was not true, and then you take that bullshit and apply your universal knowledge of mules and how that won terran the game. Gj!
You don't seem to understand the concept of scouting and how that affects a players choice of buildorder. The choice itself if it is completly blind, could be called luck, but that's pretty much NEVER the case. Players make wrong decisions though, and we see it frequently still.
The Terran won because of that 3rd base. If he didn't have that 3rd base he would have won because of mules after the worker trade. It's not an imbalance, it's just something that happens with terran.
As far as it Never being the case...Is this your first time watching GSL? Genius lost a couple of seasons ago because he went blind DT vs blind Banshee. Build order loss. I already pointed out the MVP vs MC game.
Blind build orders happen ALL THE Time, and merely failing to notice it does not make you right or even coherent.
it's blind DT that's a cheesy BO loss, not non-cloack banshee followed by a raven the "lucky BO".
While getting DT against bio play is sometimes a good gamble as there is no infrastructure for a raven, still going DT after seeing the banshee, should be categorized under retard play.
game 2 was lost to overconfidence. after failing that attack protoss had no chance to win even without mules, so i don't see where this is going
On March 09 2011 19:18 HankScorpio wrote: Build order wins are usually luck. Last GSL, MVP demolished MC because he went for DT's. Does that suggest that MVP is far superior, or that luck was simply in play.
Mules winning the game in a worker tradeoff isn't a racial imbalance, it's simply a perk that terran has, which allows them to recover from base trade/near base trade far better than the other two races.
It's merely something that's ignored when unit comparisons are done.
Seriously go away... You're trolling hard. You first apply bullshit to game2 that just was not true, and then you take that bullshit and apply your universal knowledge of mules and how that won terran the game. Gj!
You don't seem to understand the concept of scouting and how that affects a players choice of buildorder. The choice itself if it is completly blind, could be called luck, but that's pretty much NEVER the case. Players make wrong decisions though, and we see it frequently still.
The Terran won because of that 3rd base. If he didn't have that 3rd base he would have won because of mules after the worker trade. It's not an imbalance, it's just something that happens with terran.
As far as it Never being the case...Is this your first time watching GSL? Genius lost a couple of seasons ago because he went blind DT vs blind Banshee. Build order loss. I already pointed out the MVP vs MC game.
Blind build orders happen ALL THE Time, and merely failing to notice it does not make you right or even coherent.
That's because a blind DT play is a HUGE RISK
Think about yesterday's game with hongun and MC for instance TWICE hongun went for a DT rush, and both times he lost to a 4gate, which hit him before his DT finished
But that's totally his fault for playing so risky, or not scouting, and not luck
EVERY BUILD has it's risk for instance massing roaches will see you getting owned by anything that flies going MMM against toss in the late game could potentially get you in a lot of trouble if he's getting his templar tech up
gambling IRL has it's risks, and so will gambling in game
Yep.
Gambling is a risk. And risk is dependent on luck. Ergo my point.
Yeaaaah and it's the player's fault for trying to go for the easy win via cheesy play
Also
On March 09 2011 19:40 danielsan wrote: still going DT after seeing the banshee, that's categorized under retard play.
it's blind DT that's a cheesy BO loss, not non-cloack banshee followed by a raven the "lucky BO"
still going DT after seeing the banshee, that's categorized under retard play.
game 2 was lost to overconfidence. after failing that attack protoss had no chance to win even without mules, so i don't see where this is going
I don't know if it's retard play as much as it is retard viewing. The banshee showed up at Alicia's base AFTER he had already completed the Dark Shrine.
As far as the overconfidence thing...I didn't see Alicia doing the zealot dance or building a Nexus in his opponents base, so I'll contend that that loss had more to do with him being too busy microing his colossus to notice the banshee, rather than with him being overconfident.
On March 09 2011 19:18 HankScorpio wrote: Build order wins are usually luck. Last GSL, MVP demolished MC because he went for DT's. Does that suggest that MVP is far superior, or that luck was simply in play.
Mules winning the game in a worker tradeoff isn't a racial imbalance, it's simply a perk that terran has, which allows them to recover from base trade/near base trade far better than the other two races.
It's merely something that's ignored when unit comparisons are done.
Seriously go away... You're trolling hard. You first apply bullshit to game2 that just was not true, and then you take that bullshit and apply your universal knowledge of mules and how that won terran the game. Gj!
You don't seem to understand the concept of scouting and how that affects a players choice of buildorder. The choice itself if it is completly blind, could be called luck, but that's pretty much NEVER the case. Players make wrong decisions though, and we see it frequently still.
The Terran won because of that 3rd base. If he didn't have that 3rd base he would have won because of mules after the worker trade. It's not an imbalance, it's just something that happens with terran.
As far as it Never being the case...Is this your first time watching GSL? Genius lost a couple of seasons ago because he went blind DT vs blind Banshee. Build order loss. I already pointed out the MVP vs MC game.
Blind build orders happen ALL THE Time, and merely failing to notice it does not make you right or even coherent.
Ofc the terran won because of a third base, but he also didnt loose enough SCVs at home to warrent a lead for the toss even with mules in play. You have to understand that had not terran invested in the third, he'd have a much bigger army. The battle would've looked alot more different, and maybe Alicia wouldnt have attacked seeing a bigger army.
--
Nonono, it's not completely blind... Players take a big risk in a Best of Series, when seeing indications that lends itself to a 50/50 situation and hope for the best. That is imho stupid, but we're still in this phase of the game that this happens frequently, and it gives you alot of freewins. Your ignorance is quite astounding.
Mvps build was just solid, and MC gambled - this is not based on luck, it was more trying to snatch a freewin with bad odds.
Something that is very different though is if a player has a plan and still follows through regardless of what he actually scouts (be it marines at the front with a bunker, or a marauder or two - big indicators). Then sure, you can call that a BO loss, but I'd rather call it unadaptive play or even bad play from the player that is not adapting, or tries to force his build regardless.
I.E, If you base your play on even odds that could go in favor or against (or odds that are more likely going against) then you made a bad move regardless if you win or loose. Calling it luck is just a sideeffect of what actually happend on screen disregarding the fact that the player made a choice based on atleast some information.
I'm not saying that luck doesnt exist in the game, but it's far from as evident as you try to make it out to be.
--
Here's some info that Alicia had in game2: Alicia had 2 observers.
2 banshees, with cloak was on the field. Terran had expanded, made alot of rax and had production just about to kick in.
He still choose to go for a push with his fast colossi with range and his low count gateway units leaving his main and natural very vulnerable to banshee since he had to bring atleast 1 observer with him to kill Banshees in the push, making it pretty much impossible to cover both expansions. Alicia knew this.
What can we derive from this? It was a gamble with bad odds. He was hoping for the banshees to be home defending or have the push kill the Terran. If the Terran doesnt die, Protoss loose, if you had the banshees defending we could be on even footing, or if Toss did eco damage, Toss could be slightly ahead.
All props go to people who make these LR threads, but I do hate when they don't update them :o We are forced to use this LR thread because it's made and all others will be closed. I do appreciate you making the thread but if you make it, update it.
Browsing through the pages give you nothing because most of it is just stupid arguing over even more stupid things and unless you have the time to actually read every post or get lucky, good luck figuring out the score.
it's blind DT that's a cheesy BO loss, not non-cloack banshee followed by a raven the "lucky BO"
still going DT after seeing the banshee, that's categorized under retard play.
game 2 was lost to overconfidence. after failing that attack protoss had no chance to win even without mules, so i don't see where this is going
I don't know if it's retard play as much as it is retard viewing. The banshee showed up at Alicia's base AFTER he had already completed the Dark Shrine.
As far as the overconfidence thing...I didn't see Alicia doing the zealot dance or building a Nexus in his opponents base, so I'll contend that that loss had more to do with him being too busy microing his colossus to notice the banshee, rather than with him being overconfident.
he still warped them and hoped they somehow worked.
As i said before, early DT against bio, while still a gamble, it's a good one because the infrastructure for a raven is far away. Prioritizing DTs over army and zealot legs is poor play, when versing biomech play where a raven is much more likely to follow. Your P played bad. Get over it.
I doubt a GSL player does not notice his mineral line is getting wrecked and can't run probes away.
it's blind DT that's a cheesy BO loss, not non-cloack banshee followed by a raven the "lucky BO"
still going DT after seeing the banshee, that's categorized under retard play.
game 2 was lost to overconfidence. after failing that attack protoss had no chance to win even without mules, so i don't see where this is going
I don't know if it's retard play as much as it is retard viewing. The banshee showed up at Alicia's base AFTER he had already completed the Dark Shrine.
As far as the overconfidence thing...I didn't see Alicia doing the zealot dance or building a Nexus in his opponents base, so I'll contend that that loss had more to do with him being too busy microing his colossus to notice the banshee, rather than with him being overconfident.
He noticed the banshee before the shrine finished or at least he should have noticed it, 2'nd he went for fast 3'rd the gold expand and teching to dts. How do you call going for a fast 3'rd and teching , it was a gamble he took if his enemy didn't have detection he would have bought time for his 3'rd ( the gold to kick in) and win. It was a gamble that he lost and his odds went really down in the moment he noticed the banshee(enemy has a starport and a reaven is probably coming) and still went for dts.
and 2'nd game the terran "gambled" he said ok , if i have clocked banshee and keep the towers there will be a very low chance he scouts my 3'rd fast and it will kick in and give me the advantage i need. So if you think about it they are the same strats in both games but executed by different players - i have map control with invisible units and i get a really fast 3'rd and the invisible will buy me time. So if you qq about what happened in any of the game ...
On March 09 2011 19:18 HankScorpio wrote: Build order wins are usually luck. Last GSL, MVP demolished MC because he went for DT's. Does that suggest that MVP is far superior, or that luck was simply in play.
Mules winning the game in a worker tradeoff isn't a racial imbalance, it's simply a perk that terran has, which allows them to recover from base trade/near base trade far better than the other two races.
It's merely something that's ignored when unit comparisons are done.
Seriously go away... You're trolling hard. You first apply bullshit to game2 that just was not true, and then you take that bullshit and apply your universal knowledge of mules and how that won terran the game. Gj!
You don't seem to understand the concept of scouting and how that affects a players choice of buildorder. The choice itself if it is completly blind, could be called luck, but that's pretty much NEVER the case. Players make wrong decisions though, and we see it frequently still.
The Terran won because of that 3rd base. If he didn't have that 3rd base he would have won because of mules after the worker trade. It's not an imbalance, it's just something that happens with terran.
As far as it Never being the case...Is this your first time watching GSL? Genius lost a couple of seasons ago because he went blind DT vs blind Banshee. Build order loss. I already pointed out the MVP vs MC game.
Blind build orders happen ALL THE Time, and merely failing to notice it does not make you right or even coherent.
If you're mentioning about GSL Open season 2 i think you're confused about the build orders, Genius went blind DT against a T on round of 16, against a 1 base Thor rush and won and the game he lost to a Blind banshee build was on Ro8 against Rainbow (Hope_Torture back then), he went for blind 3 gate blink stalker against a blind banshee open, he got robo+observer at the end but it was too late and he lost. (Delta Quadrant was the map)
Not that it adds or remove anything from your argument, just a correction. =D
He noticed the banshee before the shrine finished or at least he should have noticed it, 2'nd he went for fast 3'rd the gold expand and teching to dts. How do you call going for a fast 3'rd and teching , it was a gamble he took if his enemy didn't have detection he would have bought time for his 3'rd ( the gold to kick in) and win. It was a gamble that he lost and his odds went really down in the moment he noticed the banshee(enemy has a starport and a reaven is probably coming) and still went for dts.
and 2'nd game the terran "gambled" he said ok , if i have clocked banshee and keep the towers there will be a very low chance he scouts my 3'rd fast and it will kick in and give me the advantage i need. So if you think about it they are the same strats in both games but executed by different players - i have map control with invisible units and i get a really fast 3'rd and the invisible will buy me time. So if you qq about what happened in any of the game ...
What do you mean by "should have noticed" a banshee? How? He sent a scouting probe that way, and the probe missed the banshee by less than one second. By the time the banshee was at his base, the Dark Shrine was done.
Look, you've made a good point about them doing the same strats, but you call Alicia a gamble (rightfully so), and you purposely neglect to call the same strat by a Terran a gamble.
Well if they were bloody gambles, as you concur, then surely my point about luck stands, does it not?
That's all I'm saying. Alicia wasn't outplayed, he was out lucked this series. No big deal, it happens, that's why Nestea and MVP are where they are right now.
But my initial and main bloody point stands and has only been reaffirmed by those brilliant minds who seem to try to pose an argument in this thread.
On March 09 2011 20:28 Almtom wrote: Another day another terrible cast by Kelly, now that DOA is casting she feels even worse, since he is also new and really really good.....
I mean how can GOM choose a caster that does not even speak english for the english stream?
I don't have anything against any of the casters, but i don't like the synergy between them. They're both making comments and no analysis. The whole 1 make analysis the other tells what's happening on the game is a really a good system, however they're both just telling what's going on and no analysis what so ever.
On game 1 Alicia vs Supernova on Crossfire SE, alicia sent the scouting probe around ~20 food to check the expansion behind his natural to check if there was any possible Proxy Stargate and Kelly said "Alicia checking with his probe for a possible hidden expansion". Regardless of being the only expansion the probe checked and being a common spot for a proxy stargate. This kind of error is acceptable to the caster to do, but whoever is making the analysis is there to correct him/her and help figuring what's gonna happen to increase the excitement.
He noticed the banshee before the shrine finished or at least he should have noticed it, 2'nd he went for fast 3'rd the gold expand and teching to dts. How do you call going for a fast 3'rd and teching , it was a gamble he took if his enemy didn't have detection he would have bought time for his 3'rd ( the gold to kick in) and win. It was a gamble that he lost and his odds went really down in the moment he noticed the banshee(enemy has a starport and a reaven is probably coming) and still went for dts.
and 2'nd game the terran "gambled" he said ok , if i have clocked banshee and keep the towers there will be a very low chance he scouts my 3'rd fast and it will kick in and give me the advantage i need. So if you think about it they are the same strats in both games but executed by different players - i have map control with invisible units and i get a really fast 3'rd and the invisible will buy me time. So if you qq about what happened in any of the game ...
That's all I'm saying. Alicia wasn't outplayed, he was out lucked this series.
Technically you're right, one can't get outplayed as you can't multiply a 0 play.
Not having success with a greedy expand followed by a blind DT tech is mostly the universal laws of common sense interfering.
Taking huge risks and getting free wins is not really called strategy, it's called craps.
This is a common law of Starcraft: - When both players play standard game with low risk, the better player wins. - When both players opt for something crazy and start panicing, usually terran comes on top. Its fundamental design of races. It has nothing to do with imbalance.
On March 09 2011 20:58 monie wrote: Man, this day would have been so much better with bo5's
Yeah, I agree... I thought it was going to be, sad to see my favorite Code A player knocked out (Alicia) after only two games.
Man, the games were so close... first game he could've had if his first attack dealt a bit more economic damage, and kept up with his macro better (with the gold base, he had nearly 2k minerals banked, ~10 more chargelots would've done wonders)
Second game was careless, he just dealt with the banshees extremely poorly. Better management with the Banshee counter and he would have taken it (would have slightly delayed the push, but should've still been enough)
Still, even with these losses I feel he's one of the best PvT'ers in the world, both games were in his grasp. Just polish up his play here & there and he'll be unstoppable. Looking forward to seeing how he does in Code S after his inevitable stomping in the Up & Down matches, just hoping he doesn't have to take out his teammate (erm, SlayerS_BoxeR)
Alicia played so sloppily yesterday; I'm really surprised and disappointed. First game he had literally 2k minerals banked up at some points-- Didn't macro well at all. Then in the second game, his decision making was pretty downright terrible. It wasn't even about not scouting the third base. It was about trying to force his way through. He should have just forced the natural CC to lift up, killing units in a safe position while preparing another army to go into the main. Instead, he went into the main overconfidently and ended up losing his army slowly to Supernovas while losing all probes at home to two banshees.
Hmm, reading through the thread it seems as if people attribute Alicia's first loss to his decisions (going DT's + Gold Expo), but that really wasn't what lost him the game. In fact, I think he mostly made the right decisions, his only problem was his macro slipped up - In game one, he was sitting on 2k minerals, had he kept up with warpgate production to defend properly he'd have been fine. Many players still have a hard time getting used to the boost in minerals gold bases give you, I guess...
Game 2, I imagine he just thought the game was over and got overconfident, probably also a little on tilt after the first (humiliating) loss. Hopefully he learns from this experience.
Just give the guy some time, the potential is there. Besides MC, he's the only Protoss that actually impresses me... like MVP/MC, he's just a bomb waiting to go off (maybe to a lesser extent, but I'm betting it'll happen)
Eh, I feel like Alicia is another one of those players that sometimes underperforms but who many people say is really good. Don't forget that MC/MVP also had that reputation for a long time, even though MC never showed anything spectacular until GSL3 (getting eliminated by Polt in R64 of GSL1 and Nestea in R16 of GSL2) and MVP never showed anything that impressive until GSL4 (killed by Zenio in GSL2, Choya in GSL3). I'm sure he'll come round.
Just watched the VODs...some pretty bad games, but even worse commentary. Zero analysis, zero humor. I couldn't believe the stuff they were missing (extra bases, good micro that they criticized, banshees getting 40 kills on the minimap). Does anybody know if Tastosis will be casting the finals?
On March 09 2011 18:28 Dominating wrote: I fail to see where in my post I said that Tasteless has never made a mistake casting. Could you point it out to me?
Well it's kind of annoying that Kelly gets so much hate for a mistake but when Tasteless says something stupid no one says anything.
WHERES THE LOVE
Plenty of people know Tasteless's SC2 game sense is poor, but at least he's understandable and he's funny.
I find it hilarious that Alicia's games were mirror images of each other with opposite results. I'm calling a slightly OP terran situation.
Game 1, P goes for 3 base and cloaked units. Terran makes 1 detector, easily kills all cloaked units, attacks, completely owns Protoss.
Game 2, T goes for 3 base and cloaked units. Protoss makes 2 detectors, can only chase away cloaked units after getting probes killed. Attacks, despite having a much more expensive army can barely put a dent in Terran. Cloaked units kill half his workers in 5-10 seconds.
Points to bring home are --
-- Protoss can't win a frontal assault with micro and build/warp in guys at another location to defend. Protoss needs to have an attack move situation somewhere to fight in two places at once. -- Terran can defend with cheaper army and workers. -- Banshees are extremely betterer than dark templar, since they fly, have range and can't be killed without phoenixes and observer speed.
If Alicia had defended the banshees well, he would have lost his whole main army in the big attack. It was a bad situation to be in, and the 3rd base made it game changing. Luckily for Terran they can take risks and not really ever be in trouble against Protoss on 2 bases.
EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/MjVlZ.png)
2011 2nd Generation Intel® Core™ Global StarCraft II League March![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/ke4Hn.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/gLhAN.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/ExrHi.jpg)
Losira < Scrap Station > ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/DUK4P.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/6Bj02.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/UkJXL.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/VHAbj.jpg)
Alicia < Crossfire SE > 
SuperNoVa![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3Ior2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/A9gHe.jpg)
GO SUPERNOVA!
![[image loading]](http://blogs.starwars.com/static/img/image-selector/full/original-trilogy/episode-vi/04.jpg)
attack+move+banshee = win 
