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On February 27 2011 16:24 MrSexington wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 16:16 var username wrote:On February 27 2011 15:12 Greentellon wrote:On February 27 2011 15:06 Shinta) wrote:On February 27 2011 14:55 Greentellon wrote:
The consistency is that the worse player lost in both cases. lol don't get ahead of yourself there big guy. If they played again NesTea would still have a much higher chance of winning. San did a good job beating him here. There's no reason to take away from San, but you calling NesTea a worse player than San, just because he lost a bo1 vs him is hilariously both ignorant and arrogant. Worse player at the time. Yeah, if you look at long term Neastea/MVP is probably more accomplished and skilled (as of right now this moment) but some people seem to think that if Neastea or MVP loses, it's games fault. I see quite a lot of people who think MVP and Nestea losing is a sign that SC2 is a bad game. I am against that. Maybe they just had a bad day or something, but the match results were fair and better player at the time won. On February 27 2011 15:10 rysecake wrote:
Yes...mvp was totally outplayed...
Yes. His 1st match vs July lasted over 15 minutes. There were no all-ins or cheese from July and thus there weren't really "unfair losses", thus MVP was outplayed. Well the metalopolis thing may be cheesy, but still it was bad wall managment from MVP. I wonder if you have studied any Sciences back in your school days, because only ignorant researchers and scientists will take one single reading and draw a conclusion from that. There are so many factors that can change, so many possible errors that can occur from taking a reading so you need more to balance all that out. You're both talking about the same thing. He's not disagreeing with what you're saying, he's just clarifying. The original quote should have been more clear, but then it was made more clear in the replies.
People like to argue on TL - even when they're in agreement.
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I'm fairly sure both MVP and Nestea got knocked out because they expected to roll their opponents.
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On February 27 2011 19:02 Sneakyz wrote:
I'm fairly sure both MVP and Nestea got knocked out because they expected to roll their opponents.
you probably didnt watch the games then
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Maybe SanZentih was this good all along he just never got to show it by dying before the 2 minute mark.
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On February 27 2011 19:47 Sahand wrote:
you probably didnt watch the games then
I did, but i don't see how that is relevant. You expect to win without much trouble, opponent plays better than expected, nerves kick in, mistake here mistake there you lose.
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The truth is, players like MVP or NesTea (or FruitDealer, MarineKing, MC and other "top" SC2 players from their respective - if brief - eras) are just not that good to dominate the game for a longer period of time. There's nothing really spectacular in their play, they just had a good run for a few months where they were indeed better than everybody else, but it was bound to end sooner rather than later.
If we have mediocre RTS players (ex B teamers or fringe A teamers) like NesTea, MVP or MC dominate the game and win everything for a year or so, it would be horrible for SC2. What we have instead is very good for the scene - other players catch up to the best each season and raise the bar higher. It's easily visible how much the quality of games improved since GSL Opens. Eventually, at the end of that race we'll get a really impressive player worthy of being a SC2 bonjwa.
It was never going to be MVP, and thank god for that.
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i'll give u that MVP wasn't really impressive as a low-tier A-teamer in BroodWar, but he was on a team where no Terran could ever get good or get much practice (Woongjin).
Remember, GanZi was also from Woongjin, and he actually looked like a fucking beast (throwing units away but starving the zerg).
I think that MVP will be a top player in sc2 for time to come; not at the very top but with the top players.
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On February 28 2011 02:25 Talin wrote:
The truth is, players like MVP or NesTea (or FruitDealer, MarineKing, MC and other "top" SC2 players from their respective - if brief - eras) are just not that good to dominate the game for a longer period of time. There's nothing really spectacular in their play, they just had a good run for a few months where they were indeed better than everybody else, but it was bound to end sooner rather than later.
If we have mediocre RTS players (ex B teamers or fringe A teamers) like NesTea, MVP or MC dominate the game and win everything for a year or so, it would be horrible for SC2. What we have instead is very good for the scene - other players catch up to the best each season and raise the bar higher. It's easily visible how much the quality of games improved since GSL Opens. Eventually, at the end of that race we'll get a really impressive player worthy of being a SC2 bonjwa.
It was never going to be MVP, and thank god for that.
Except the problem here is sc1 is too different to sc2, you can only compare so much. Saying current top players are disappointing because they weren't top stuff in BW is silly.
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On February 28 2011 04:49 Vorlik wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2011 02:25 Talin wrote:
The truth is, players like MVP or NesTea (or FruitDealer, MarineKing, MC and other "top" SC2 players from their respective - if brief - eras) are just not that good to dominate the game for a longer period of time. There's nothing really spectacular in their play, they just had a good run for a few months where they were indeed better than everybody else, but it was bound to end sooner rather than later.
If we have mediocre RTS players (ex B teamers or fringe A teamers) like NesTea, MVP or MC dominate the game and win everything for a year or so, it would be horrible for SC2. What we have instead is very good for the scene - other players catch up to the best each season and raise the bar higher. It's easily visible how much the quality of games improved since GSL Opens. Eventually, at the end of that race we'll get a really impressive player worthy of being a SC2 bonjwa.
It was never going to be MVP, and thank god for that. Except the problem here is sc1 is too different to sc2, you can only compare so much. Saying current top players are disappointing because they weren't top stuff in BW is silly.
Not to mention that SC2 is extremely young while BW has years and years of experiance/tactics/strategic knowledge etc etc...SC1 has a HUGE amount of experiance behind it for it's players to draw from. SC2 is barley being figured out, nobody knows exactly what units to use where or how to truly counter a certain play-style yet or how to prepare for anything and everything exactly. Sure drawing from BW helps immensely but people are trying to compare a 14+ year old esport scene with one that is barley 8 months(?) old.
MVP messed up, it happens. Nestea messed up. It happens to. I am sure if we saw some more rematches they'll crush sanszenith and julyzerg again no problem.
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On February 28 2011 05:27 Talack wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2011 04:49 Vorlik wrote:On February 28 2011 02:25 Talin wrote:
The truth is, players like MVP or NesTea (or FruitDealer, MarineKing, MC and other "top" SC2 players from their respective - if brief - eras) are just not that good to dominate the game for a longer period of time. There's nothing really spectacular in their play, they just had a good run for a few months where they were indeed better than everybody else, but it was bound to end sooner rather than later.
If we have mediocre RTS players (ex B teamers or fringe A teamers) like NesTea, MVP or MC dominate the game and win everything for a year or so, it would be horrible for SC2. What we have instead is very good for the scene - other players catch up to the best each season and raise the bar higher. It's easily visible how much the quality of games improved since GSL Opens. Eventually, at the end of that race we'll get a really impressive player worthy of being a SC2 bonjwa.
It was never going to be MVP, and thank god for that. Except the problem here is sc1 is too different to sc2, you can only compare so much. Saying current top players are disappointing because they weren't top stuff in BW is silly. Not to mention that SC2 is extremely young while BW has years and years of experiance/tactics/strategic knowledge etc etc...SC1 has a HUGE amount of experiance behind it for it's players to draw from. SC2 is barley being figured out, nobody knows exactly what units to use where or how to truly counter a certain play-style yet or how to prepare for anything and everything exactly. Sure drawing from BW helps immensely but people are trying to compare a 14+ year old esport scene with one that is barley 8 months(?) old. MVP messed up, it happens. Nestea messed up. It happens to. I am sure if we saw some more rematches they'll crush sanszenith and julyzerg again no problem.
Exactly. Too many people here are making judgment off 1-2 losses. Pit these players in a bo5, bo7,bo69, whatever you want, and I guarantee players like Mvp and Nestea would have a much much higher chance of winning. A bo1-2 just isn't a viable way to judge skill, it's too volatile.
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On February 28 2011 02:25 Talin wrote:
The truth is, players like MVP or NesTea (or FruitDealer, MarineKing, MC and other "top" SC2 players from their respective - if brief - eras) are just not that good to dominate the game for a longer period of time. There's nothing really spectacular in their play, they just had a good run for a few months where they were indeed better than everybody else, but it was bound to end sooner rather than later.
If we have mediocre RTS players (ex B teamers or fringe A teamers) like NesTea, MVP or MC dominate the game and win everything for a year or so, it would be horrible for SC2. What we have instead is very good for the scene - other players catch up to the best each season and raise the bar higher. It's easily visible how much the quality of games improved since GSL Opens. Eventually, at the end of that race we'll get a really impressive player worthy of being a SC2 bonjwa.
It was never going to be MVP, and thank god for that.
Seems like a very knee jerk reaction to me.
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All I can say is that with these maps, GSL is even MORE fun than it was before, I've now watched pretty much all code S matches, and most of them are really fun, exciting, and some really weird. I love this season, love this GSL  .
If the NASL wants to be this good, it has some huge shoes to fill.
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Can somebody explain to me how Nestea held off Boxer's all in? From what I saw he never scouted those barracks and just made 8 roaches blind... correct me if I'm wrong but making all those roaches blind is the last thing any zerg who has a clue how to play would ever do... so how did Nestea know? He had to have scouted the rax and I just didn't see it or something there's no way he could have known to make those roaches...
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On February 28 2011 06:23 Neo.NEt wrote:
Can somebody explain to me how Nestea held off Boxer's all in? From what I saw he never scouted those barracks and just made 8 roaches blind... correct me if I'm wrong but making all those roaches blind is the last thing any zerg who has a clue how to play would ever do... so how did Nestea know? He had to have scouted the rax and I just didn't see it or something there's no way he could have known to make those roaches...
I believe he scouted the gas and saw that it wasnt beeing mined, which meant it was a fake gas, which meant it was an allin.
He just outsmarted boxer.
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also of note in nestea-boxer game is that nestea had a zergling hidden behind boxer's mineral line at his natural the whole game. So when boxer fake expanded by putting a bunker below his ramp, Nestea saw no CC being floated over or being built
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On February 27 2011 20:01 TheBanana wrote:
Maybe SanZentih was this good all along he just never got to show it by dying before the 2 minute mark.
I'd bet that he overcome his nerve issues together with TONS of practice. And since he's still Code S he can't have been thaaat bad before either. He just made silly mistakes costing him games and I guess that was becuase of nerves.
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I'm happy thewind advanced from the group. If i recall correctly, he was planning on quitting starcraft 2 as a player and only coach. The streamers on huk's stream convinced him to try one more time for this GSL. It's good to see him have success . Given that he's against either sanzenith or ensnare next round, i'd say his odds aren't looking as bad as they could've.
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I think this whole bonjwa argument is kinda silly. Obviously SC2 hasn't been out long enough to declare a bonjwa, unless FD had won all of the 4 GSLs or something. That doesn't mean you can't say MVP and Nestea aren't two of the top 3 players now. Put them in a bo7 against everyone else, and they would win 90% of the time.
As for GSL 5. They underestimated their oppenents, they're out now. Guess what? This happened to the "bonjwa" Flash just a couple months ago.
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Man i lost hard on liquibets for this one. Seriously though Sanzenith was a beast it was like he was possesed by an SC2 god! It was ridiculous to see him (such a mediocre player so far in the gsl) beat 2 legends. It would be amazing if he went on to win the tournament, he should seriously consider becoming a full time pro gamer if he can even play like that half the time. I mean if he practiced like a pro gamer at this rate he would be one of the best in korea.
Assuming all those games werent total flukes but it really didnt seem like it, i mean i could understand him beating one of those guys but slayers boxer and nestea that was just amazing you gotta be pretty damn good to 3-0 any group in the gsl.
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Who is the 1 number player on sc2ranks.com right now, its some Korean Terran, can anyone translate the name?
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EPT
