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On January 20 2011 02:17 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
No, I didnt let him in on purpose - but just because I think hes MAYBE 6 pooling me doesnt mean Im going to make a wall I would never ever make otherwise (tho to be honest, theres very little reason to NOT do it now that I think about it, might make it my new standard).
Anyhow, I think (not really sure?) the "oooooh" came at the point he pulled 6 drones not when he made the 6 pool so it was too late to make a full wall without "cheating" (and I still didnt know what he was doing for sure).
Bottom line, dude, is that you are doing what thousands of us DREAM of doing. Not only are you winning over there, you are getting RESPECT. Like I said before, you are the reason I play Terran.
You have brought respect to our race, by proving that you dont have to cheese to win, and you can keep up with Zerg on Macro. If you dont take out MVP this time (I think you will), with the way you have improved, you are on your way to foreign DOMINANCE.
I also like how you thank and appreciate those who help you.
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On January 20 2011 02:02 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 01:57 mprs wrote:On January 20 2011 01:53 ShyRamen wrote:On January 20 2011 01:45 Kurr wrote:
To bring up the subject of soundproof booths again, I'm wondering just how much the koreans can actually hear? Did Jinro understand what was being said or was it just the screaming that made him realize it was a 6pool? Any chance that players can actually make out what they say during the games? i tried to comment on several topics but it's funny because they all got locked in few minutes. i don't even care to talk about this specific case because i don't think it matters, i just want to talk about the soundproof booths but it seems it's not possible because strangely the mods are REALLY SENSIBLE to going "off topic" in that thread. my question is: if jinro heard the noise they were making with all their screaming "ohh ohhh" - what can korean players actually hear ? jinro does not speak korean so he doesn't understand their comments but what if players in the booth can actually hear comments about units or maybe build orders. i suspect if that's the case, none of them would even mention it during an interview. The best Korean players would speak up against it since they are not benefiting as much as the weaker players... Why would you say that? If anything the more info is out there the better it is for the good players because they can establish their skill advantage without any weird upsets happening.
Well this is true. I'm probably wrong, but here is my logic:
Lets assume we have a weak player and a strong player.
Case 1:
Lets assume we have a weak player and a strong player. Assuming no share of information, the better player should win (if he is indeed better. Lets forget about any possible imbalances or what not). The better player wants this case every single time since he is "guaranteed" to win.
Case 2:
Lets assume both players get new information. Now there are other options.
Case 2.1 The exchange of information could help the better player to a greater degree (and it probably will). This lets him beat the lesser player, as in Case 1. Really, the better player did not benefit from this, as he would win anyway.
Case 2.2 The exchange of information helps the weaker player (i.e hears cloak banshee or cloak ghost or something). This does not really indicate who will win (the better player could still win), but the lesser player now has an advantage he otherwise would not have. This may or may not be enough to swing the tides in his favor (with some variance or luck or whatever).
Not the best logic, since we missed some very big variables. There other types of information where only a top player would be able to decipher and adapt accordingly. However, lets assume that at this point, every player is adequate enough to have good understanding of the game (its not true as of now, but will be soon I'm hoping). There is also stuff like 6 pools where it would obviously help one player much more than the other.
But regardless, If I am player A and I think I am better than player B and would win a bo5 every day, then I would want Case 1 every single time, which means no sharing of information. Case 2 would introduce variability that I would not want to deal with.
The difference between you and I is you assume the real case, which is that players lose to others worse than them. I don't make that distinction because this will change in a few months/years/decades. Once we reach that stage, I think my theory would be true.
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On January 20 2011 02:54 Denzil wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 02:49 lac29 wrote:On January 20 2011 02:40 Lonyo wrote:On January 20 2011 02:39 lac29 wrote:
Wow Idra being such a loud anti-cheese supporter ... and he lost ... for shame. It's good. Puts his opponents on edge in the future. Idra is known for not cheesing, and then in a big match he cheeses. It's exactly what you should expect from a top level player. Actually the point I'm making is that next time Idra complains about cheese ... ppl will just point to this game and say, "well look, even though you hate cheese you do it yourself". Idra was an extremist in terms of "hating cheese" ... so it's surprising that he'd do it ... even for "strategic purposes". Does no one listen to Artosis? He said If the games got to Jungle Basin he would be 6 pooling regardless he talked to Artosis about it prior to the game and told him of his idea. Frankly it doesn't surprise me Idra is never going to win on Jungle Basin
I did hear Artosis. It doesn't change my opinion. Idra was at the very very extreme end of hating cheese (I doubt you can name any one who hates cheese more than he does). That's why I was still surprised even though Artosis did say Idra thought about cheesing since he noticed the late scout on that particular map ("strategic purposes"). Next time Idra complains about cheese ppl will roll their eyes and point to this game.
tldr: No one hates cheese more than Idra ... thus it's surprising he did it even if it did increase his chance of winning.
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MKP vs Nada was an extremely fun series to watch. The first game was pissing me off due to Artosis repeatedly saying that MKP could not win when he had the command center and Nada did not. But other than that, great series and extremely entertaining. Little disappointed by Nada though.
MKP's decision making was unbelievable.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On January 20 2011 02:50 AT_Tack wrote:
I liked MC coming to jinro and high-five him to make up for his bm after jinro beat him.
He never bm:ed me, I wish peope would realize that he did nothing wrong after our games.
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On January 20 2011 03:15 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 02:50 AT_Tack wrote:
I liked MC coming to jinro and high-five him to make up for his bm after jinro beat him. He never bm:ed me, I wish peope would realize that he did nothing wrong after our games.
MC is Jinro's best friend. Why would he BM him? 0_o Great games man, your macro style is absolutely amazing! I hope you win it all! JINRO FIGHTING!!!!!
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Jinro can we be 100% sure of you in finals ? xDDDD
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On January 20 2011 02:50 AT_Tack wrote:
I liked MC coming to jinro and high-five him to make up for his bm after jinro beat him.
Wtf? Learn what BM is. Hint: failing to jump up and congratulate a friend after he's beat you in an important game is not an example.
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On January 20 2011 03:04 gideel wrote:![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0a6NG.jpg)
IdrAs Jacket >>>>>>>> Jinros Jacket.  I dont like this shiny leather stuff at all
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On January 20 2011 03:04 gideel wrote:
Awesome.
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On January 20 2011 03:11 lac29 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 02:54 Denzil wrote:On January 20 2011 02:49 lac29 wrote:On January 20 2011 02:40 Lonyo wrote:On January 20 2011 02:39 lac29 wrote:
Wow Idra being such a loud anti-cheese supporter ... and he lost ... for shame. It's good. Puts his opponents on edge in the future. Idra is known for not cheesing, and then in a big match he cheeses. It's exactly what you should expect from a top level player. Actually the point I'm making is that next time Idra complains about cheese ... ppl will just point to this game and say, "well look, even though you hate cheese you do it yourself". Idra was an extremist in terms of "hating cheese" ... so it's surprising that he'd do it ... even for "strategic purposes". Does no one listen to Artosis? He said If the games got to Jungle Basin he would be 6 pooling regardless he talked to Artosis about it prior to the game and told him of his idea. Frankly it doesn't surprise me Idra is never going to win on Jungle Basin I did hear Artosis. It doesn't change my opinion. Idra was at the very very extreme end of hating cheese (I doubt you can name any one who hates cheese more than he does). That's why I was still surprised even though Artosis did say Idra thought about cheesing since he noticed the late scout on that particular map ("strategic purposes"). Next time Idra complains about cheese ppl will roll their eyes and point to this game. tldr: No one hates cheese more than Idra ... thus it's surprising he did it even if it did increase his chance of winning.
if you haven't seen how idra plays steppes of war, delta quadrant, jungle basin, and any other short map like that or maps in which you are just at a severe late-game disadvantage as zerg, you wouldn't have this opinion. he's done early pools before in tournaments, he has an infamous hydra/spine crawler push build on steppes, etc.
idra plays cheesy, but only when he feels like it has a much better chance of winning than a macro game, and he like everyone else understands the value of having well-rounded play. at the end of the day though, he's better at macro than most, so the amount of times he will rush is very small.
he just hates people whose standard style is to play short games. for a very long time that just happened to be a large majority of players, so of course he has a huge problem when almost everyone who isn't zerg is doing crazy rushes.
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such an immature way to act from IdrA, he will waste his whole potential if he continues to act like this
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+ Show Spoiler +On January 20 2011 03:05 mprs wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 02:02 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On January 20 2011 01:57 mprs wrote:On January 20 2011 01:53 ShyRamen wrote:On January 20 2011 01:45 Kurr wrote:
To bring up the subject of soundproof booths again, I'm wondering just how much the koreans can actually hear? Did Jinro understand what was being said or was it just the screaming that made him realize it was a 6pool? Any chance that players can actually make out what they say during the games? i tried to comment on several topics but it's funny because they all got locked in few minutes. i don't even care to talk about this specific case because i don't think it matters, i just want to talk about the soundproof booths but it seems it's not possible because strangely the mods are REALLY SENSIBLE to going "off topic" in that thread. my question is: if jinro heard the noise they were making with all their screaming "ohh ohhh" - what can korean players actually hear ? jinro does not speak korean so he doesn't understand their comments but what if players in the booth can actually hear comments about units or maybe build orders. i suspect if that's the case, none of them would even mention it during an interview. The best Korean players would speak up against it since they are not benefiting as much as the weaker players... Why would you say that? If anything the more info is out there the better it is for the good players because they can establish their skill advantage without any weird upsets happening. Well this is true. I'm probably wrong, but here is my logic: Lets assume we have a weak player and a strong player. Case 1: Lets assume we have a weak player and a strong player. Assuming no share of information, the better player should win (if he is indeed better. Lets forget about any possible imbalances or what not). The better player wants this case every single time since he is "guaranteed" to win. Case 2: Lets assume both players get new information. Now there are other options. Case 2.1 The exchange of information could help the better player to a greater degree (and it probably will). This lets him beat the lesser player, as in Case 1. Really, the better player did not benefit from this, as he would win anyway. Case 2.2 The exchange of information helps the weaker player (i.e hears cloak banshee or cloak ghost or something). This does not really indicate who will win (the better player could still win), but the lesser player now has an advantage he otherwise would not have. This may or may not be enough to swing the tides in his favor (with some variance or luck or whatever). Not the best logic, since we missed some very big variables. There other types of information where only a top player would be able to decipher and adapt accordingly. However, lets assume that at this point, every player is adequate enough to have good understanding of the game (its not true as of now, but will be soon I'm hoping). There is also stuff like 6 pools where it would obviously help one player much more than the other. But regardless, If I am player A and I think I am better than player B and would win a bo5 every day, then I would want Case 1 every single time, which means no sharing of information. Case 2 would introduce variability that I would not want to deal with. The difference between you and I is you assume the real case, which is that players lose to others worse than them. I don't make that distinction because this will change in a few months/years/decades. Once we reach that stage, I think my theory would be true.
Jeez, everybody was exactly aware of your flawed thought process before you went on to rant about it in detail.
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On January 20 2011 02:28 Immersion_ wrote:Hopefully soon there will be a lull in the music mid game and a player will hear Artosis screaming SO MANY BANELINGS, and just gg out in fear  .
hahaha :D
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well its settled
Jinro is the best foreign player
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On January 20 2011 02:53 emythrel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 02:40 Lonyo wrote:On January 20 2011 02:39 lac29 wrote:
Wow Idra being such a loud anti-cheese supporter ... and he lost ... for shame. It's good. Puts his opponents on edge in the future. Idra is known for not cheesing, and then in a big match he cheeses. It's exactly what you should expect from a top level player. This is like in basketball, I used to get knocked about all over the court. My coach told me a story about an NBA player who was having the same thing happen, his coach told him to throw an elbow just once, in a televised game, and you will never get pushed around again. The player did it (cant remember who it was anymore lol) and never got knocked around again. I threw an elbow during a semi-final of a big tourney, with all the other teams in our league watching, and I never had to do it again.... they were so scared to come near me. Idra showed, albeit not very well, that he can cheese when the need arises, now players will have that fear in the back of the head when they play him, before today they didn't
Except I think its pretty obvious he will only cheese on Jungle Basin because he feels that is the only map he can't win vs T in a straight game, so it'll be predictable. Smart players will wall up and go earlier Rax and then it'll be over.
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On January 20 2011 03:22 smileyyy wrote:IdrAs Jacket >>>>>>>> Jinros Jacket. I dont like this shiny leather stuff at all
Hehe i totally agree on that. Idra looks like a baller with that jacked, also pretty nice hair cut he got too compared to before!  Good luck next time idra, hope to see better maps next season so you can show your full potential.
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Idra definitely looks cooler this season. Going away from the Harry Potter look
On January 20 2011 03:15 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
He never bm:ed me, I wish peope would realize that he did nothing wrong after our games.
Jinro, don't you need to sleep? It's 3am there
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EPT
