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koppik
United States676 Posts
On January 08 2011 15:42 Gudeldar wrote: In game 3? No way, man. Gilja made a micro error and lost his timing window, which was golden.I don't know about that, Sang Ho's build in game 3 was just better than Gilja's It was the similar story in game 2. You can do a timing attack against phoenix/colossus, you can build thors, or can land emps on the phoenixes. Gilja I guess tried to do the last but missed. | ||
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Aquafresh
United States824 Posts
Flash v Fantasy currently involved in a sick TvT | ||
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flodeskum
Iceland1267 Posts
On January 08 2011 15:38 Skillz_Man wrote: WOW! How did Killer hold that off! Archons are really stronger than they look I think. Really nicely done. The zealots had enough surface to hit and there was no space to kite and this is what happens when zealots can actually do stuff. Sadly archons are a lot weaker than they look. | ||
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ZeNd0kUn
United States331 Posts
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lazyfeet
United States468 Posts
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koppik
United States676 Posts
On January 08 2011 15:44 flodeskum wrote: The archon kind of won that battle, I think. Since Gilja's units were clumped and in range of the archon, they were all taking full AoE damage from the archon. Archons may be weak, but not when they're hitting that many units at once. The zealots helped, but they were way outnumbered. It was like double the food in marine/marauders compared to zealots.The zealots had enough surface to hit and there was no space to kite and this is what happens when zealots can actually do stuff. Sadly archons are a lot weaker than they look. | ||
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Kojak21
Canada1104 Posts
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Cyanocyst
2222 Posts
On January 08 2011 15:30 Gudeldar wrote: Day9 hates really fast Colossus, I've never heard him say that you should get HT before Colossus. hmmm, actually your right. Lately haven't herd him say that. However i do believe he was a fan of HTs and Gateway centric play around release. Maybe he dropped the hts, in favor of the Adel Scott style of just mass well upgraded low tier gateway units. | ||
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hagon
United Kingdom556 Posts
On January 08 2011 15:43 koppik wrote: In game 3? No way, man. Gilja made a micro error and lost his timing window, which was golden. Agreed, your army is made of more units as Terran vs. Protoss, its really vital to engineer and arc around the protoss army. Just overall nice play by Sangho, Dark Templar did enough damage that terran felt he needs to attack and do damage himself, but at the same time brought Sangho enough time to get Zealot Leg Speed. Lesson to be learnt, if you poke and the compositions/positions dont favour you particularly...change angle, wait and see if the other dude makes a mistake or just go home. | ||
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InvalidID
United States1050 Posts
On January 08 2011 15:48 Cyanocyst wrote: hmmm, actually your right. Lately haven't herd him say that. However i do believe he was a fan of HTs and Gateway centric play around release. Maybe he dropped the hts, in favor of the Adel Scott style of just mass well upgraded low tier gateway units. From what I understand he does not hate collusus, just the style of collusus play where you cut a ton in favor of really fast collosus early off of two base. | ||
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hmunkey
United Kingdom1973 Posts
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DaRKMaTT3r
Brazil553 Posts
On January 08 2011 15:48 Cyanocyst wrote: hmmm, actually your right. Lately haven't herd him say that. However i do believe he was a fan of HTs and Gateway centric play around release. Maybe he dropped the hts, in favor of the Adel Scott style of just mass well upgraded low tier gateway units. He actually said that on last State of Game Podcast that he enjoys a heavy gateway unit army especially with armor upgrade (before attack upgrade) because he tends to be heavy on the zealot count and that he not really against colossi from 2 base but at he is against the old NEXGenius like type of fast expand straight into Robo Bay. He thinks you should delay the colossi to at least 110-120 food, so you can actually have a decent amount of gateway units to support you colossi. | ||
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DaRKMaTT3r
Brazil553 Posts
On January 08 2011 15:51 hmunkey wrote: Guys, really? If Day9 hates fast colossi that doesn't mean it's necessarily bad. Day9 is a good player, but he's not anywhere near as good as these GSL protosses nor is he heavily active in SC2 as a player. His opinions are based on his own experiences which I expect are far less diverse and numerous than Sang Ho's at least when it comes to SC2. Is a Football coach as good as Football player on execution of plays? Does that mean the Coach shouldnt be coaching or analyzing the football player's plays unless he is better than him? We've seen far more colossi rush on GSL 1 and 2 than on 3. And on GSL 4 there is even less, unless im mistaken. | ||
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AndAgain
United States2621 Posts
On January 08 2011 15:59 DaRKMaTT3r wrote: Is a Football coach as good as Football player on execution of plays? Does that mean the Coach shouldnt be coaching or analyzing the football player's plays unless he is better than him? We've seen far more colossi rush on GSL 1 and 2 than on 3. And on GSL 4 there is even less, unless im mistaken. I love these analogies. Take a second and think about how smart it is to compare football to RTS. IIRC, Day9 hates the expo straight into robo bay. Sangho didn't get a robo bay that fast. He had a decent number of gateway units. The fundamental thing that Day9 doesn't get is that you will simply get destroyed by marauders or roaches without colossi. Gateway units MUST be relatively cost ineffective pound for pound in order to compensate for the ability to warp them in. That's why colossi are so necessary. | ||
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ZeNd0kUn
United States331 Posts
It's not because Day9 hates it that fast colossi is bad .. it's because making a robo and a robo bay + a collossus costs a leg and an arm and naked Collossi aren't very strong against Bio .. you still need a considerable amount of gateway units to hold off a Bio attack. In fact, a Bio attack can be held off by gateway units alone .. it's when the Terran reaches a critical mass + medivacs that splash damage is necessary. This is where Collossi or High Templar are needed. The tech choice is up to the Protoss player and his personal play style. In the end what matters is timing and execution. | ||
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DaRKMaTT3r
Brazil553 Posts
On January 08 2011 16:07 AndAgain wrote: I love these analogies. Take a second and think about how smart it is to compare football to RTS. IIRC, Day9 hates the expo straight into robo bay. Sangho didn't get a robo bay that fast. He had a decent number of gateway units. The fundamental thing that Day9 doesn't get is that you will simply get destroyed by marauders or roaches without colossi. Gateway units MUST be relatively cost ineffective pound for pound in order to compensate for the ability to warp them in. That's why colossi are so necessary. It was only an analogy, i could have used is oGsTheWind as good player as oGsMC? But he stills his coach and analyze his plays, regardless of the difference of their current sucess as a player. Also oGsMC held most of the Marauder pressure, including a Marineking proxy rax marauder rush with no colossi. So did several other protoss. Day9's statement about coolossi was purely based on how popular NEXGenius became a few months ago that was Gate->Core->Robo->Observer->2nd Gate->Nexus-> Robo Bay->Colossi Range. That was an extremely greedy and if the terran attacked you during the time your gateway unit count was low you were pretty much dead because you would have 1 coloissi and only a few gateway units. And you can hold the terran opening pressure with 3 gate, just cannot break a heavy contain with that, but can hold pretty well if played defensively. So many tosses doing that lately on GSL Also i didnt compare Sang-Ho build with rushing to colossi, i didn't even mention his name on my post, just commented on the fact he doesn't actually need to be a better player to analyze the player's plays. | ||
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LynxKerr
Canada173 Posts
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Turgid
United States1623 Posts
On January 08 2011 16:58 LynxKerr wrote: I'm so sick of hearing about what Day9 likes or doesn't like. He's got all you guys by the balls... He knows the game very well, but to think the guys word is is holy is retarded. He's transitioned from playing video games into making money off video games. A nerd's dream. Until I see him on the ladder smashing 2 base terran timing attacks with just zealots and stalkers(like he suggested in his protoss FE daily), I just laugh at him. Well... it seems to be possible with good positioning and forcefields. Feels a little weak, to me, but so does the *really* fast colossus, so I think that personally I'm going to start getting charge pretty quickly. I think that'll make my life much easier. For now, though, 2base colossus is still strong. 2base colossus/phoenix is very strong as well, against both zerg and terran. I don't think there's any arguing that. 2gates + colossus is always going to feel a little fragile, though, you know what I mean? | ||
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kwkwookw
218 Posts
On January 08 2011 16:58 LynxKerr wrote: I'm so sick of hearing about what Day9 likes or doesn't like. He's got all you guys by the balls... He knows the game very well, but to think the guys word is is holy is retarded. He's transitioned from playing video games into making money off video games. A nerd's dream. Until I see him on the ladder smashing 2 base terran timing attacks with just zealots and stalkers(like he suggested in his protoss FE daily), I just laugh at him. lol who the hell would think day9's word is holy. he's not even a progamer. | ||
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Jombozeus
China1014 Posts
On January 08 2011 17:27 kwkwookw wrote: lol who the hell would think day9's word is holy. he's not even a progamer. I'm sorry mate, but this comment is probably going to turn the thread into a huge flamefest because of what you said. I haven't watched the games so I can't contribute to the discussion of the games today, but I just want to urge everyone below me to completely ignore the Day9 discussion comments  Starting from this line: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- . | ||
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