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On December 29 2010 22:47 wxwx wrote:
wow.. mvp makes TvZ look imba.... Losira kept doing major damage to the terran econ (while only suffering damage at his third), yet the zerg army is just so flimsy when up against siege tanks+mass marine. It's like the zerg has to rely on counterattacks and cutting off reinforcements.
Could have been a different story if he took a far away third base.. But I don't know.. I feel kind of sick in the stomach when I put myself in the zerg shoes.
look? :D
They're both ballers. You can tell this isn't the Losira that lost to TLO in season 1.
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This map definitely favors Losira. He should have used the previous strat on this map and played more macro oriented on Xel.
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if he did tha, i would feel really sick in the stomach too as a zerg player
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On December 29 2010 22:49 Jehct wrote:
What is everyone talking about, Losira had a huge advantage (~30food ahead) until he misdetonated ~15-20 banelings. That's game-deciding, it wasn't that his harass was ineffective or MVP's unit comp was unbeatable =/
No amount of counter attacking in the world is going to help you if the opponent can kill your base faster than you can kill his.
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Now this game is one-sided haha.
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United Kingdom38149 Posts
And that's why he tried to play harass heavy on Xel Naga.
As soon as MvP gets that MTM push rolling and you can't go around him you're in so much trouble.
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Holy fuck those marine splits O_O
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only TSL_Pooh left for team 1, soon it will be finished and than turn on kaspersky 
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Lol, I restarted the stream and go 10 minutes in the future. xD
Looked onesided. Maybe zerg will need 2 more expos against terran (mvp^^). Maybe infestors could help. MVP plays so incredible like a god vs zerg.
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On December 29 2010 22:50 QuantumTheory wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2010 22:49 Jehct wrote:
What is everyone talking about, Losira had a huge advantage (~30food ahead) until he misdetonated ~15-20 banelings. That's game-deciding, it wasn't that his harass was ineffective or MVP's unit comp was unbeatable =/ No amount of counter attacking in the world is going to help you if the opponent can kill your base faster than you can kill his.
His counter-attacking was winning him the game, he misdetonated 1000/500 worth of units and wasn't far enough ahead for that to not matter. The game wasn't decided but to keep saying that his play style wasn't working is absurd.
Blistering was interesting, kinda wish he had tried to take a different third as the push to the nat put him too far behind to have a chance. Really interesting to see backstabbing like that all the time though, will look forward to seeing Losira in the future.
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On December 29 2010 22:59 Miragee wrote:
Lol, I restarted the stream and go 10 minutes in the future. xD
Looked onesided. Maybe zerg will need 2 more expos against terran (mvp^^). Maybe infestors could help. MVP plays so incredible like a god vs zerg.
Infestors get eaten by siege tanks.
Once the composition catches on you'll start to notice it's not so much Mvp as it is the composition itself that Zerg has trouble dealing with. That aside Mvp has really nice splitting.
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On December 29 2010 23:01 Jehct wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2010 22:50 QuantumTheory wrote:On December 29 2010 22:49 Jehct wrote:
What is everyone talking about, Losira had a huge advantage (~30food ahead) until he misdetonated ~15-20 banelings. That's game-deciding, it wasn't that his harass was ineffective or MVP's unit comp was unbeatable =/ No amount of counter attacking in the world is going to help you if the opponent can kill your base faster than you can kill his. His counter-attacking was winning him the game, he misdetonated 1000/500 worth of units and wasn't far enough ahead for that to not matter. The game wasn't decided but to keep saying that his play style wasn't working is absurd. Blistering was interesting, kinda wish he had tried to take a different third as the push to the nat put him too far behind to have a chance. Really interesting to see backstabbing like that all the time though, will look forward to seeing Losira in the future.
Had the Terran decided, blow it and base traded, Losira wouldn't have a chance in hell of winning. That supply lead you're talking about doesn't account for army strength. IMMvp had an iron grip on that game whether the harass was working or not. Losira couln't stop that push even if he wanted to.
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Yeah, Mvp is terrible, Terran is just imba.
That makes sense.
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On December 29 2010 23:04 Nimic wrote:
Yeah, Mvp is terrible, Terran is just imba.
That makes sense.
What, if you're referring to me that's not what I'm saying at all. Mvp is great and I think deserves a lot more credit than FoxeR does. I think Mvp is about to usher in another meta game shift in TvZ, and in my opinion this composition is insanely hard to stop in the hands of someone whose not dumb. Idk, if I came off as Mvp is terrible and Terran is imba then no, that's not what I meant.
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On December 29 2010 23:04 QuantumTheory wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2010 23:01 Jehct wrote:On December 29 2010 22:50 QuantumTheory wrote:On December 29 2010 22:49 Jehct wrote:
What is everyone talking about, Losira had a huge advantage (~30food ahead) until he misdetonated ~15-20 banelings. That's game-deciding, it wasn't that his harass was ineffective or MVP's unit comp was unbeatable =/ No amount of counter attacking in the world is going to help you if the opponent can kill your base faster than you can kill his. His counter-attacking was winning him the game, he misdetonated 1000/500 worth of units and wasn't far enough ahead for that to not matter. The game wasn't decided but to keep saying that his play style wasn't working is absurd. Blistering was interesting, kinda wish he had tried to take a different third as the push to the nat put him too far behind to have a chance. Really interesting to see backstabbing like that all the time though, will look forward to seeing Losira in the future. Had the Terran decided, blow it and base traded, Losira wouldn't have a chance in hell of winning. That supply lead you're talking about doesn't account for army strength. IMMvp had an iron grip on that game whether the harass was working or not. Losira couln't stop that push even if he wanted to.
That's utter nonsense, the only way MVP could push was through a tank crawl on creep, meaning he would have to play incredibly carefully and slowly, probably giving Losira more than enough time to put MVP all-in while his own army got big enough to crush the push. Tank/marine pushes are potent but not THAT potent, a 'base trade' situation would have greatly favoured Losira and it's what his whole playstyle invites =/ Even the original pure marine push at the start of the game on Xelnaga didn't do any damage at all, which was far speedier and with far less creep spread. Losira also didn't have the advantage when he crushed the original push. Tanks are good but they aren't that good.
Edit: And lol, metagame shift? Tank marine pushes have been a midgame staple of TvZ forever, MVP just does it better than everyone else.
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On December 29 2010 23:12 Jehct wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2010 23:04 QuantumTheory wrote:On December 29 2010 23:01 Jehct wrote:On December 29 2010 22:50 QuantumTheory wrote:On December 29 2010 22:49 Jehct wrote:
What is everyone talking about, Losira had a huge advantage (~30food ahead) until he misdetonated ~15-20 banelings. That's game-deciding, it wasn't that his harass was ineffective or MVP's unit comp was unbeatable =/ No amount of counter attacking in the world is going to help you if the opponent can kill your base faster than you can kill his. His counter-attacking was winning him the game, he misdetonated 1000/500 worth of units and wasn't far enough ahead for that to not matter. The game wasn't decided but to keep saying that his play style wasn't working is absurd. Blistering was interesting, kinda wish he had tried to take a different third as the push to the nat put him too far behind to have a chance. Really interesting to see backstabbing like that all the time though, will look forward to seeing Losira in the future. Had the Terran decided, blow it and base traded, Losira wouldn't have a chance in hell of winning. That supply lead you're talking about doesn't account for army strength. IMMvp had an iron grip on that game whether the harass was working or not. Losira couln't stop that push even if he wanted to. That's utter nonsense, the only way MVP could push was through a tank crawl on creep, meaning he would have to play incredibly carefully and slowly, probably giving Losira more than enough time to put MVP in a position where he couldn't replenish his army while his grew big enough to crush the push. Tank/marine pushes are potent but not THAT potent, a 'base trade' situation would have greatly favoured Losira and it's what his whole playstyle invites =/ Even the original pure marine push at the start of the game on Xelnaga didn't do any damage at all, which was far speedier and with far less creep spread. Losira also didn't have the advantage when he crushed the original push. Tanks are good but they aren't that good.
Good point, however I think Mvp would have still won. His marine splitting and his confidence in it would mean he's not too worried of a Zerg attacking his army when half of it is at his nat. So I think he'd advance quicker than you think.
edit: must not be watching enough TvZ's then as I see so much goofy "little bit of this, little bit of that" in TvZ. Mvp was the first one to stick out who just goes plain old Marine Tank, and it could be it stuck out because he does it better than everyone else but still, I think it's about to become a lot more popular now.
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On December 29 2010 23:15 QuantumTheory wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2010 23:12 Jehct wrote:On December 29 2010 23:04 QuantumTheory wrote:On December 29 2010 23:01 Jehct wrote:On December 29 2010 22:50 QuantumTheory wrote:On December 29 2010 22:49 Jehct wrote:
What is everyone talking about, Losira had a huge advantage (~30food ahead) until he misdetonated ~15-20 banelings. That's game-deciding, it wasn't that his harass was ineffective or MVP's unit comp was unbeatable =/ No amount of counter attacking in the world is going to help you if the opponent can kill your base faster than you can kill his. His counter-attacking was winning him the game, he misdetonated 1000/500 worth of units and wasn't far enough ahead for that to not matter. The game wasn't decided but to keep saying that his play style wasn't working is absurd. Blistering was interesting, kinda wish he had tried to take a different third as the push to the nat put him too far behind to have a chance. Really interesting to see backstabbing like that all the time though, will look forward to seeing Losira in the future. Had the Terran decided, blow it and base traded, Losira wouldn't have a chance in hell of winning. That supply lead you're talking about doesn't account for army strength. IMMvp had an iron grip on that game whether the harass was working or not. Losira couln't stop that push even if he wanted to. That's utter nonsense, the only way MVP could push was through a tank crawl on creep, meaning he would have to play incredibly carefully and slowly, probably giving Losira more than enough time to put MVP in a position where he couldn't replenish his army while his grew big enough to crush the push. Tank/marine pushes are potent but not THAT potent, a 'base trade' situation would have greatly favoured Losira and it's what his whole playstyle invites =/ Even the original pure marine push at the start of the game on Xelnaga didn't do any damage at all, which was far speedier and with far less creep spread. Losira also didn't have the advantage when he crushed the original push. Tanks are good but they aren't that good. Good point, however I think Mvp would have still won. His marine splitting and his confidence in it would mean he's not too worried of a Zerg attacking his army when half of it is at his nat. So I think he'd advance quicker than you think.
Pushing too quick would still lose him the game, once you have that many marines even with perfect splitting banelings are going to be cost-effective, and with Losira having an advantage MVP couldn't afford an equal trade. Losira just threw it away by mistake, it happens, trying to learn anything else from that game is silly.
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who is tsl_pooh that was a great game
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wow such a high level game...
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EPT
