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On December 06 2010 21:50 doobie_d wrote:
Now that there are no more zergs, expect more macro games. No more games that will only last for 5-7 mins, I guarantee.
I wouldn't bet on that. All we have seen from Rains TvP so far is all-in banshee pushes or proxy rax. Foxer is pretty fond of the proxy raxes against P too.
then theres choya who is your standard four gate loving protoss. MC also underperformed in the last two GSLs by doing cheesy one base builds and losing
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I have to echo the others saying just how sad it is to see NesTea and FruitDealer out now  I was really hoping for a ZvZ Ro4 match between the two, as that would just be an insane match-up. While at first I was impressed by FD's crazy play, that waned as he threw away some games, especially since his macro is quite strong (then again, as pointed out above, he may not feel this is the case against Protoss). For NesTea, his awesome decision-making unfortunately failed him for probably the first time - while Steppes may just be too damn close to hold, I feel that he could've held Blistering Sands & Xel'Naga Caverns if he had just had that crazy spider-sense of his working. can't really fault Rain for all-ins against NesTea, they're definitely a chink in his armor as seen by last season's finals, and I don't think even Jinro could beat NesTea in a straight up macro game.
About all I want to say about the balance is that thinking this shows Zerg to be obviously UP makes about as much sense as thinking that GSL1&2 shows Zerg to be OP =P
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On December 06 2010 21:50 Elefanto wrote:
But you could start with making decent maps instead of all those garbage luck based backdoor and position imbalance?
Then you could start twinkering numbers.
This, Yeah, I can agree with that. The backdoor is pretty much everyone's bane. I think the worst thing Blizzard ever did with Starcraft 2 was to add backdoors and destructible rocks. Which makes it all the more funny that the best map in their map pool is Metalopolis which features neither.
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I wonder what the Korean reaction will be if Jinro wins the whole thing?
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On December 06 2010 21:52 Zaurus wrote:
MC says he has a 95% win rate against terran, that is sick
Foxer is 96% different from other terrans ....
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Sad thing is that Jinro is most likely going to lose to MC tomorrow. Ah well, he had a good run.
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On December 06 2010 21:45 Pawshter wrote:they would play in the ro4, not finals
Oh man that sucks. -_-
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On December 06 2010 21:52 Zaurus wrote:
MC says he has a 95% win rate against terran, that is sick
MC saying he has a 95% win rate against terran isn't sick at all.
MC having a 95% win rate against terran would be.
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On December 06 2010 21:57 Dagobert wrote:
Sad thing is that Jinro is most likely going to lose to MC tomorrow. Ah well, he had a good run. Jinro is playing Choya tomorrow.
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On December 06 2010 21:57 Mise wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 21:57 Dagobert wrote:
Sad thing is that Jinro is most likely going to lose to MC tomorrow. Ah well, he had a good run. Jinro is playing Choya tomorrow.
Ah, I was confusing the two matches. You're right, I meant to say... even if he wins vs Choya tomorrow, he's going to lose to MC in the semis. T_T
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On December 06 2010 21:44 Airionn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 21:41 pirates wrote:On December 06 2010 21:37 darmousseh wrote:On December 06 2010 21:35 Ignat wrote:
Greedy Greedy Zergs. How long is it going to take before they realise.. Zergs just wanna make dro-ones....oh zergs just wanna make drones. I hope i wasnt the only person to get this. They just wanna they just wannaaaaa
That's all they really want
Some drones
When the hatchery is done
zergs - they want to make drones
Oh zergs just want to make....drones
I will never think of that song the same again.
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Seen better games but so awesome to see a toss get in even though FD did'nt play his best.
Great interview and personality too Hongun has.
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On December 06 2010 21:59 Dagobert wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 21:57 Mise wrote:On December 06 2010 21:57 Dagobert wrote:
Sad thing is that Jinro is most likely going to lose to MC tomorrow. Ah well, he had a good run. Jinro is playing Choya tomorrow. Ah, I was confusing the two matches. You're right, I meant to say... even if he wins vs Choya tomorrow, he's going to lose to MC in the semis. T_T
Pretty fatalistic
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I think Nestea was just off his game today. Something seemed off. He's held the rushes before, and it seemed a lot like TSL_Rain played better on some maps heavily favored his way. Nestea should have been ready for that on the close-rush maps. Also, like in the Lost Temple game, his control just seemed to be off a bit. Lost units in spots he didn't seem to before.
As for Fruitdealer, I guess he really just isn't comfortable in ZvP. The 6 pool against Inca in GSL1 was on Kulas. He never used the same build twice on that map (and won it, what, 6 times?), so going for that made some sense for how he played GSL1. But against HongUn, it seemed like he wasn't comfortable going for a late-game. The Shakuras game made some sense, but he ended up only getting an early(ish) 2nd hatchery on the two short rush-distance maps. I really don't get that.
All told, Nestea was the better player in his match, but didn't win. I honestly think HongUn played better than Fruitdealer, though Fruitdealer tried really hard to throw away that series. If HongUn's TvP is solid (and he went through JSL & TheBest, so it's at least solid), he should be the favorite for being in the finals.
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On December 06 2010 21:51 Alpina wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 21:47 kojinshugi wrote:On December 06 2010 21:38 Liquid`Ret wrote:
cant wait for free observers Really? Making a robo and 25/75 is free? Unlike making that hugely prohibitive structure, the Lair, and morphing an overseer/dropping a changeling. Or the 100 mineral ovie sac. No, robo is obviously free, done before the second pylon, and shits out observers for no cost. Let's all listen to progamers, who make such reasoned, unbiased and clearheaded statements. Why the hell do you count robotics cost in observer lol? May I say that overseer is pool + lair + overseer? Isn't that stupid? Actually observer is like free map hack, and a lot of top players (even toss players) agree that it's nonsense to lower their cost.
Yes, you may. Because it's accurate. You have to sacrifice scarce resources and building time in the early game to get unit X out.
You have to make a robo to make an observer.
You have to make a lair to make an overseer.
Scouting options exist, and even if you can't manage a scout, at least make an evo against one-basing toss who's obviously hiding his BO. It's not like DTs come out at the 4 minute mark.
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On December 06 2010 21:57 Dagobert wrote:
Sad thing is that Jinro is most likely going to lose to MC tomorrow. Ah well, he had a good run.
Jinro cant lose to mc tomorrow ... they will just play each other if they both advance...
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On December 06 2010 22:01 kojinshugi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 21:51 Alpina wrote:On December 06 2010 21:47 kojinshugi wrote:On December 06 2010 21:38 Liquid`Ret wrote:
cant wait for free observers Really? Making a robo and 25/75 is free? Unlike making that hugely prohibitive structure, the Lair, and morphing an overseer/dropping a changeling. Or the 100 mineral ovie sac. No, robo is obviously free, done before the second pylon, and shits out observers for no cost. Let's all listen to progamers, who make such reasoned, unbiased and clearheaded statements. Why the hell do you count robotics cost in observer lol? May I say that overseer is pool + lair + overseer? Isn't that stupid? Actually observer is like free map hack, and a lot of top players (even toss players) agree that it's nonsense to lower their cost. Yes, you may. Because it's accurate. You have to sacrifice scarce resources and building time in the early game to get unit X out. You have to make a robo to make an observer. You have to make a lair to make an overseer. Scouting options exist, and even if you can't manage a scout, at least make an evo against one-basing toss who's obviously hiding his BO. It's not like DTs come out at the 4 minute mark.
How are observers a map hack. They are flying pieces of paper that are really easy to spot. Make a single raven or overseer and suddenly you can deny your opponent any and all scouting.
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On December 06 2010 21:38 Liquid`Ret wrote:
cant wait for free observers
The cost of observers has never held toss back from making them, rather it is the robo tech path followed by the robo time being used to make nonattacking units, which they aren't changing. The no pylons blocking ramps change is a far bigger change than if observers were made free.
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Fruitdealer should have played like Nestea and Nestea should have played like Fruitdealer today. We had an all in intentional Terran and a fast expand macro intentional protoss. No wonder they're both out, but even then, it was 3-2 so just shows how good both of them are.
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Well i think this just showed why zerg doesn't 1 base.. there is no fall back plan and this is why u dont 1 base vs double rax, a 1 base zerg is useless and will lose if he doesnt win quick and its so easy to stop roach ling. I think these games really opened up people eyes on why zergs are so picky with changes because the race is so fragile and the smallest changes like the fungal nerf can seriously break t he mid game, not as if the early game wasnt already horrible to begin with.
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EPT
