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On December 01 2010 20:56 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2010 20:53 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:On December 01 2010 20:52 dapierow wrote:
IdrA lost right when artosis said 14 drones to 19 scvs but he forgot to mention the one mule... it was gg then Yeah and the problem is that he played somewhat perfect until then. Got his Hatch and a Spine. What to do when you're still at a fucking huge disadvantage economy and army-wise? I mean I have no idea what he could've done better. Maybe losing 1-2 Drones less at those early Marine pushes? Maybe, but that's peanuts. 14hatch doesn't work, the current IN is overpool, and it's totally safe vs that with better econ than 14hatch.
What do you mean with overpool?
And no Idra said 14 hatch is the best way to combat this double Rax.
Going Pool first means you have lost because he doesn't need to attack but still build up marines, expand (like he did in this game) and...
well basically you would be in the same position as Idra was now, just without an expo (or a much later one).
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I expect choya will win this. Still rooting for Check though, Check fighting!
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On December 01 2010 20:53 JeremyK wrote:
Funny how people still call him "one of the best zergs in the world" yet he hasn't beat a big name player still.
How can you guys blame maps? Map 1 was not imba and he didn't make any units in game 3, what do you expect to happen?
Because the map was the reason he lost. If it was cross positions then IdrA already had banelings and more speedlings.
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On December 01 2010 20:54 adeezy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2010 20:53 Sfydjklm wrote:On December 01 2010 20:50 Shikyo wrote:
GG, close spawns. But yeah I don't understand why Idra didn't make more units, he had like no chance of surviving vs even half the amount of units MVP had. because MVP never has half the units he had. He's either gonna have as much as he did and roll idra or he gonna delay his attack. Close positions are simply unwinnable vs competent terran because as a zerg you can never be ahead- if terran scans you and sees that u made units he simply does nothing and is automatically ahead. If you made drones he goes out and kills you. You could say the same about steppes of war... obviously wasnt the case for IdrA or fruitdealer.
metal is closer, and the natural is much more open so marines can micro better.. obviously from time to time a good player will pull off a win on a hard map.. it's not unwinnable, but that doesn't make it fair and balanced.
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On December 01 2010 20:52 darth_hater wrote:
go into work everyday...get trolled by the internet. artosis life.
haha
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On December 01 2010 20:54 Abstrkt wrote:
Getting through the GSL is more about the maps you get than your skil level it seems. Idra should switch to quake live..
Actually it would be the opposite. The higher your skill level the less the maps would matter. Only the best have overcome map disadvantages consistently throughtout their careers.
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MVP had TWO BASE with a BETTER ECON than Idra before he pushed out.
Please stop this one base all-in bs you keep spouting.
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On December 01 2010 20:55 bokeevboke wrote:
whos potential opponent for jinro in r16?
I looked at the bracket a while ago and I think it's boxer.
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On December 01 2010 20:54 SKtheAnathema wrote:
lol at people. if you watch game 1 and really look at how mvp handles his units and composition... you'd be asking yourself how he even won 2-1 instead of 2-0. he's fucking GODLIKE
it was great but the important part was the map/terrain here. he only could survive all those moves by grack cause of the very nice layout there with a protected tank and the ramp to funnel Z stuff. his whole build was just perfect for that.
note that im not saying "OMG BLISTERING T FAVORED LOLOLOL" but that he abused that specific terrain well .
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hard luck Idra, no shame in going out to MVP 2:1 on those maps.
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Steppes of War, Delta Quadrant and Xel'Naga Cavern for CheckPrime. He has his hands fulled this match.
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On December 01 2010 20:57 ch33psh33p wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2010 20:56 5unrise wrote:
I'm going have to say quite bluntly that it's not fair for zergs to have to play on positions like that. I'm not saying that Immvp is not good enough to defeat Idra or only won because of the map imbalance, but that it is not giving the zerg player a fair chance. This is something so obviously remediable, and in my opinion, bringing out new maps to balance this game (with longer rush distances, better natural chokes, etc) is so simple to do and would not trigger negative reactions from players (as opposed to a nerf/ buff, that sort of thing). Its not fair Zerg can't get an expansion up and gimp on units? What?
Zerg needs one more base than terran if you have any understanding of TvZ.
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Idra's ability to defend early pressure is so good. I'm not sure what he could have done to win given MVP's incredible timing, but he was definitely played a very solid game against one of the best opponents he could have faced.
One thing that might help is for the game to be given more time to evolve. As people figure the game out to a larger degree I would think that idra will be able to build up a more specific knowledge of these early-midgame timings, which should allow him to more consistently hold the attacks off and press through into the late game, which is undoubtedly his comfort zone. Terran's army was pretty huge right there, but if he had morphed his banelings sooner(and potentially a few more of them) I think he might be ok.
On a side note, these games definitely allowed MVP to show why two rax pressure into expand is so strong even without a successful bunker rush. It's definitely not all-in at all (not sure why people keep calling it that). One thing about it that I really like is that it allows you to build up a bunch of marines early game, giving you an incredibly powerful army once stim finishes as long as you're able to keep them alive. It seems like this leads to two very powerful timings. There's the powerful early timing that people are familiar with that allows bunker rush and win if zerg does not hold it off well, but there's also the timing that MVP finished idra off with that happens as soon as stim finishes.
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On December 01 2010 20:53 Pawshter wrote:
Jinro is going to rape the shit out of IMMvP in the Ro8
Jinro's gonna play winner of Polt vs Boxer first. Boxer's TvT is pretty scary.
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I'm sure Check win.
Because HopeTorture drop out at Ro64.
:D
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On December 01 2010 20:59 5unrise wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2010 20:57 ch33psh33p wrote:On December 01 2010 20:56 5unrise wrote:
I'm going have to say quite bluntly that it's not fair for zergs to have to play on positions like that. I'm not saying that Immvp is not good enough to defeat Idra or only won because of the map imbalance, but that it is not giving the zerg player a fair chance. This is something so obviously remediable, and in my opinion, bringing out new maps to balance this game (with longer rush distances, better natural chokes, etc) is so simple to do and would not trigger negative reactions from players (as opposed to a nerf/ buff, that sort of thing). Its not fair Zerg can't get an expansion up and gimp on units? What? Zerg needs one more base than terran if you have any understanding of TvZ.
You missed the point completely, so I'm not evne gonna bother arguing with you.
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GAME STARTING!
choya spawns at 7 o clock, check at 2 on Steppes of War.
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Finland33997 Posts
On December 01 2010 20:57 Sfydjklm wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2010 20:56 Shikyo wrote:On December 01 2010 20:53 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:On December 01 2010 20:52 dapierow wrote:
IdrA lost right when artosis said 14 drones to 19 scvs but he forgot to mention the one mule... it was gg then Yeah and the problem is that he played somewhat perfect until then. Got his Hatch and a Spine. What to do when you're still at a fucking huge disadvantage economy and army-wise? I mean I have no idea what he could've done better. Maybe losing 1-2 Drones less at those early Marine pushes? Maybe, but that's peanuts. 14hatch doesn't work, the current IN is overpool, and it's totally safe vs that with better econ than 14hatch. Ret metioned in other thread that you simply die to marines rallying if you dont hatch first because you can't get enough lings up in time.
I'll just say he's wrong >_> the first spawn larvae is so fast that you actually get way more lings than with hatch-first. So if that doesn't get enough lings, then hatch-first at least won't. It gets more larvae than hatch-first, you know.
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On December 01 2010 20:57 Sfydjklm wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2010 20:56 Shikyo wrote:On December 01 2010 20:53 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:On December 01 2010 20:52 dapierow wrote:
IdrA lost right when artosis said 14 drones to 19 scvs but he forgot to mention the one mule... it was gg then Yeah and the problem is that he played somewhat perfect until then. Got his Hatch and a Spine. What to do when you're still at a fucking huge disadvantage economy and army-wise? I mean I have no idea what he could've done better. Maybe losing 1-2 Drones less at those early Marine pushes? Maybe, but that's peanuts. 14hatch doesn't work, the current IN is overpool, and it's totally safe vs that with better econ than 14hatch. Ret metioned in other thread that you simply die to marines rallying if you dont hatch first because you can't get enough lings up in time.
Oh shit, I didn't know that. So hatch first is almost necessary vs 2 rax on close positions or steps?
That seems...broken.It delays lings so you must battle with workers, and according to Ret, one base leads to lack of proper amount of lings.
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The better player won, and people know it. But when someone you're rooting for loses, you get unreasonable and start questioning balance, even though you know that MVP is better than IdrA.
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EPT
