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isM
United States735 Posts
On November 23 2010 16:09 Subversion wrote: It's really not hard to scout with an ovie or overseer. By the time overseer tech is out its too late, and overlords aren't exactly the fastest units in sc2. | ||
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Lunares
United States909 Posts
On November 23 2010 16:28 mizU wrote: what should he have done instead? 1 based? 6 pooled? How about 14 pool 15 hatch so he has more lings? | ||
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Krehlmar
Sweden1149 Posts
Anyway Haypro you know we love your melancholy face, go get em next time ! | ||
Liquid`Ret
Netherlands4511 Posts
Anyway, of course haypro shouldve had a baneling nest and a ling infront of terrans base, and he should have won these games. I just wanted to explain what I think happend in those games...and I just want to say again that I think Haypro is an amazing player, and he will definately produce good results in the future, he has the potential. | ||
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billyX333
United States1360 Posts
On November 23 2010 16:27 Subversion wrote: thats kinda weird. artosis has been twittering about it a shit ton and saying its all korean terrans do right now. but ret u say u haven't faced it - but have u been 14hatching? no. artosis has been saying the 2rax is unscoutable you dont know if hes gonna commit to marine + scvs or just scan and then throw down a fast CC instead so you'll have completely wasted all your money/larva on lings/spine/baneling nest when hes just going to expand and if you drone and he scans it, he'll just bring 10 scvs and 12 marines and win | ||
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dutpotd
Canada49 Posts
On November 23 2010 16:10 mcleod wrote: do you agree with Artosis that zergs have to blindly make a baneling nest because it really seems to be a neccesity now in TvZ i assume haypro wasnt suprised by this 2 barracks opening, and pherhaps nerves got the best of him Interesting discussion. I don't think an expansion as early as 14 should be 'safe', which is the only way to justify having (being forced) to go banelings for defense in response. i.e. You are expanding blindly, it stands to reason you might have to do a few other things blind to compensate. I don't think it is a matter of psychic abilities or perfect scouting for that matter, there are safety nets that need to be inserted into any sort of fast expand build that players sometimes omit - especially when they don't have positive confirmation (from scouting) that they are 'needed'. It sucks that Haypro lost, I am a big fan. But I just couldn't imagine any sort of high level performance 'consistency' in a game that has been on the markets for about a quarter, and that is still enduring balance changes monthly. I don't think it is fair to credit starcraft 2, citing the prevalence of build order losses, for inconsistent performances. I think it is inevitable due to the stage of development starcraft 2 is in - infancy. I would be highly surprised if within a year there isn't the emergence of some very consistent performances by many a player, in fact Ret/Haypro/Jinro/Huk/Idra/et.al are top of my spectator wish-list to become said competitors. I highly doubt that any of these players, once "there" will say it is their psychic performance that keeps them there; well, they will likely credit luck being that they are humble, but honestly the consistent players will find the competitive edge which I'd wager will be found with either safety netting economic footholds or with agressive or forceful tech/scouting, everything in between I agree to be a guessing game. | ||
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DaCruise
Denmark2457 Posts
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theriv
United States149 Posts
On November 23 2010 16:31 DaCruise wrote: In next patch: "Orbital command now requires factory" lol....prob  | ||
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shutdown_exploded
United States133 Posts
On November 23 2010 16:31 DaCruise wrote: In next patch: "Orbital command now requires factory" nah: mules now require you have scv's mining EDIT: On November 23 2010 16:33 Logican wrote: mules need a nerf looolz hey guys, remember protoss? lol me neither. | ||
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Serpico
4285 Posts
On November 23 2010 16:31 DaCruise wrote: In next patch: "Orbital command now requires factory" costs 100min/100gas :D | ||
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mrkent
United States160 Posts
On November 23 2010 16:24 Liquid`Ret wrote: actually I have not even once played against 2 rax into 4 rax and ive been laddering for a week. Ive only seen intotherainbow do it before against the wind in Gstar tournament. lol. Why are you at home posting on TL instead of at the studio cheering Haypro on? Also, do TL players consult artosis for advise or discuss strategy/metagame usually? | ||
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Lunares
United States909 Posts
In the interview he said that it was so that he could deploy an autoturret to absorb baneling damage | ||
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Veritassong
Canada393 Posts
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
On November 23 2010 16:29 Liquid`Ret wrote: I have played against 2 rax a TON.. It's usually a lot more allin, with 3-5 scvs at the start.but after that the usual follow-up seems to be a CC after the initial pressure fades off. This 4 rax thing is an obvious timing attack that aims at zergs who feel comfortable after the 2 rax seems to have 'not worked'. Terran never even planned on doing initial damage, that's why he only sent 1 scv with his marines. He added the quick 2 rax to come with a very large force marines at a timing hayder is not used to. Anyway, of course haypro shouldve had a baneling nest and a ling infront of terrans base, and he should have won these games. I just wanted to explain what I think happend in those games...and I just want to say again that I think Haypro is an amazing player, and he will definately produce good results in the future, he has the potential. okay, this post is the winner lol. i think u summed up the terran skill and haypro's faults quite succintly there. best of luck to you ret, i really expect you to go deep and will be rooting for you | ||
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Stoned
United States69 Posts
On November 23 2010 16:29 Liquid`Ret wrote: I have played against 2 rax a TON.. It's usually a lot more allin, with 3-5 scvs at the start.but after that the usual follow-up seems to be a CC after the initial pressure fades off. This 4 rax thing is an obvious timing attack that aims at zergs who feel comfortable after the 2 rax seems to have 'not worked'. Terran never even planned on doing initial damage, that's why he only sent 1 scv with his marines. He added the quick 2 rax to come with a very large force marines at a timing hayder is not used to. Anyway, of course haypro shouldve had a baneling nest and a ling infront of terrans base, and he should have won these games. I just wanted to explain what I think happend in those games...and I just want to say again that I think Haypro is an amazing player, and he will definately produce good results in the future, he has the potential. thanks for the input if we could go into imaginary land and you were playing on scrap station and had banelings waht do you think the auto turret would have done in that situation? would enough banelings still crush through everything? | ||
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RinoZerg
Australia130 Posts
C'arn Hayder! Get em next time!  | ||
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
On November 23 2010 16:29 KashmirAZ wrote: By the time overseer tech is out its too late, and overlords aren't exactly the fastest units in sc2. by the time u have lair its too late? u realise im talking about game 2 not game 1 ^^ | ||
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blackh3d
Australia49 Posts
On November 23 2010 16:17 Ojahh wrote: Whats wrong with you people?? Stop shitting up threads when you don't know what you are talking about. MAN it's HayprO!!!!! He has probably been playing SC longer than you can hold a Mouse sheeeshh.... http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/HayprO edit: spell-check I am HayprO's age. So maybe you should retract your statement about the mouse. Perhaps you assume everyone here is juvenile apart from you. I beg to differ. Also, this is not 'shitting up threads' as you so claim it is. I merely asked for some reference to him being a 'phenomenal player'. From today's showing, he clearly did not fit that bill. I provided my opinion and if you are unhappy with it, so be it. In any case, thanks for providing the link to Haypro's page. | ||
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GP
United States1056 Posts
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Corrik
United States1416 Posts
This forced Haypro to go Roach Warren and Roaches. By making one hellion, the opponent made Haypro tech into something he wanted and made him also, to an extent, build more in response to the hellion than he should have (this is why he put the factory on the tech lab, giving impression of blue hellion drop). Then he put the starport in exactly the same position to show banshee. As Artosis and Tasteless commented "I can't believe he didn't go a second banshee", this is exactly what Haypro probably was thinking also. With the starport on the techlab and the first banshee out, this forced Haypro to overreact and build a overseer, an extra queen, a Spire, and I believe a few spore crawlers also. While it may seem like this provided no advantage, the Terran was slowly getting small advantages each time he forced a tech change and an overreaction. This was all in preparation for a timing attack / I guess All-In which the Terran seemed to have planned from the start. Thus, Haypro's loss wasn't scouting because he saw everything coming... the opponent made sure that he did. | ||
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