EPTGlobal Gamers Invite: Episode 2 - Page 24
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On November 15 2010 15:03 iCCup.Diamond wrote: Here's my personal opinion on Capoch in an alternate form: Capoch's strategy in games from the GGI GGI Games Capoch vs. CheckPrime G1: 2 Gate Zealot Push into 4 Warpgate Rush Capoch vs. CheckPrime G2: 2 Gate Zealot Push into 4 Warpgate Rush Capoch vs. CheckPrime G3: 2 Gate Zealot Push into 4 Warpgate Rush Capoch vs. Azz G1: 4 Warpgate Rush Capoch vs. Azz G2: 2 Gate Robo Capoch vs. Blade: 4 Warpgate Rush Capoch vs. Ensnare G1: 1 Gate Zealot Push into 4 Warpgate Rush (Ensnare GG'd right as the warpgate research and additional gates were underway) Capoch vs. Ensnare G2: 4 Warpgate Rush Capoch vs. TT1 G1: 4 Warpgate Rush Capoch vs. TT1 G2: 4 Warpgate Rush Capoch vs. TT1 G3: 4 Warpgate Rush Capoch vs. TT1 G4: 4 Warpgate Rush Capoch vs. TT1 G5: 4 Warpgate Rush I have only EVER litreally seen TWO GAMES of Capoch's (in ANY event) where he wins with a build other then 4 Warpgate (for the record I have only seen him not go 4 warpgate 5 times). Can you say one dimensional? I have seen 1 game where he hasn't 4 gated and he got rolled. It is the only strategy he knows how to do wish I had known that when I played him back in june or whenever the qualifiers were  .I'm still sad to see all the forfeits but I know xeris you can't do anything about it :/ | ||
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TadH
Canada1846 Posts
On November 16 2010 05:10 blade55555 wrote: I have seen 1 game where he hasn't 4 gated and he got rolled. It is the only strategy he knows how to do wish I had known that when I played him back in june or whenever the qualifiers were .I'm still sad to see all the forfeits but I know xeris you can't do anything about it :/ Even if you had known, he would have likely beaten you. He's beaten much better players than you with 4 gate (no offense of course) I just don't see why everyone is hating on him, it obviously works for him, why stop using it? It's a strategy like any other, it has counters, use them? | ||
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palexhur
Colombia730 Posts
On November 15 2010 15:03 iCCup.Diamond wrote: Here's my personal opinion on Capoch in an alternate form: Capoch's strategy in games from the GGI GGI Games Capoch vs. CheckPrime G1: 2 Gate Zealot Push into 4 Warpgate Rush Capoch vs. CheckPrime G2: 2 Gate Zealot Push into 4 Warpgate Rush Capoch vs. CheckPrime G3: 2 Gate Zealot Push into 4 Warpgate Rush Capoch vs. Azz G1: 4 Warpgate Rush Capoch vs. Azz G2: 2 Gate Robo Capoch vs. Blade: 4 Warpgate Rush Capoch vs. Ensnare G1: 1 Gate Zealot Push into 4 Warpgate Rush (Ensnare GG'd right as the warpgate research and additional gates were underway) Capoch vs. Ensnare G2: 4 Warpgate Rush Capoch vs. TT1 G1: 4 Warpgate Rush Capoch vs. TT1 G2: 4 Warpgate Rush Capoch vs. TT1 G3: 4 Warpgate Rush Capoch vs. TT1 G4: 4 Warpgate Rush Capoch vs. TT1 G5: 4 Warpgate Rush I have only EVER litreally seen TWO GAMES of Capoch's (in ANY event) where he wins with a build other then 4 Warpgate (for the record I have only seen him not go 4 warpgate 5 times). Can you say one dimensional? That is a player or a game problem? If one strategy got you far in a tournament then it is a game problem, lol at Blade btw (you are that not so good player from AoE3? no offense but i want to know). | ||
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smash9le
Argentina11 Posts
? btw its like foxerits not his fault if u cant stop it am i right? Go capoch | ||
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Scoop
Finland482 Posts
On November 15 2010 15:03 iCCup.Diamond wrote: Here's my personal opinion on Capoch in an alternate form: Capoch's strategy in games from the GGI GGI Games Capoch vs. CheckPrime G1: 2 Gate Zealot Push into 4 Warpgate Rush Capoch vs. CheckPrime G2: 2 Gate Zealot Push into 4 Warpgate Rush Capoch vs. CheckPrime G3: 2 Gate Zealot Push into 4 Warpgate Rush Capoch vs. Azz G1: 4 Warpgate Rush Capoch vs. Azz G2: 2 Gate Robo Capoch vs. Blade: 4 Warpgate Rush Capoch vs. Ensnare G1: 1 Gate Zealot Push into 4 Warpgate Rush (Ensnare GG'd right as the warpgate research and additional gates were underway) Capoch vs. Ensnare G2: 4 Warpgate Rush Capoch vs. TT1 G1: 4 Warpgate Rush Capoch vs. TT1 G2: 4 Warpgate Rush Capoch vs. TT1 G3: 4 Warpgate Rush Capoch vs. TT1 G4: 4 Warpgate Rush Capoch vs. TT1 G5: 4 Warpgate Rush I have only EVER litreally seen TWO GAMES of Capoch's (in ANY event) where he wins with a build other then 4 Warpgate (for the record I have only seen him not go 4 warpgate 5 times). Can you say one dimensional? I heard there was this one guy in GSL that only went marines. He got pretty far with that if I remember correctly. | ||
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Makh
Canada143 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On November 18 2010 04:52 Makh wrote: Regardless, it's going to be very exciting to see Sen play WhiteRa -- and of course to see how the winner fares against the 'unbeatable'(?) Capoch 4gate Sen vs Whitera should be some very good games I can't wait :D | ||
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ChickenLips
2912 Posts
On November 15 2010 13:54 Alou wrote: I said Capoch is a good player who earned his spot through the qualifiers from this tournament. He beatEnsnare (OGS), and Check (Prime) in the qualifiers to become one of the final players who got invited into this portion of the tournament. He was also one of the players invited by Blizzard to Blizzcon. He is a good player who can compete with everyone else in this tournament. I said nothing about the future other than I was excited to see him play vs Morrow in his next round match. Edit + Show Spoiler + That's unfortunate. Capoch vs MorroW would have been a great series.  HAHAHAHAHAAHHAA Are you fucking serious? Like ... seriously? Capoch a good player? You should watch some of his games where he doesn't all in (which are quite rare tbh). The guy has NO game sense whatsoever. He doesn't have a game plan. He doesn't understand game theory or has developped even basic strategic thinking. He doesn't comprehend the concept of expanding, on how even mid-game (not gonna talk late-game lol) strategies are conceived and executed. He is terrible. His point/skill ratio is probably the WORST I've ever seen. He is mind-blowingly bad for how well known he is. There are players that have actual skill, they can sit and think about strategy, come up with new interesting build orders and know how to transition in and out of certain strategies, when to commit, how to control their army and when to scout. And then you have players that just stupidly take a build order and throw it at their opponent, to see what happens. Doesn't work? Try harder. Stil doesn't work? Well, 55% is good enough. For example drewbie is also well known and he is pretty bad. But I'm not gonna trash drewbie because I can see some potential, like ... there's flaws in his gameplay he can fix. Capoch on the other hand.... There's nothing to fix, it's just straight up shit and abuse from the ground up. He has no skill to base a standard game on, that's the reason he perfects his stupid cheeses to steal away tournament money and prestige from players that actually have the potential to entertain us with their gameplay in the future. Once people are going to figure out all the shitty cheeses and how to respond to them, we will finally not have to see good players taken out by cheesy trash all in players. Don't get me wrong. I don't hate cheese. It's a part of the game, but having players that you KNOW will do some idiotic build because of their apparent lack of skill is just frustrating. I enjoy cheese when players that could as well play a 40 minute game, do it, because it brings refreshment, a sense of excitement an element of surprise to a series. With players like Capoch you just look at it and say "oh yeah that retarded abusive build again" It's designed to work against better players and I think he is in essence deteriorating the quality of games we get to watch. He takes value away from tournaments (like this one). I hope he never gets invited to anything ever again and maybe, if he sits down and starts playing straight up, in a year he could be halfway decent, but as with what he shown so far, I have to say, it's a fucking shame. | ||
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
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ChickenLips
2912 Posts
On November 18 2010 05:45 Xeris wrote: who are you to talk trash o_O http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem You're welcome to refute the reasons I have outlined above on what compromises my opinion on him, however. | ||
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CheeseGrater
United States290 Posts
On November 18 2010 06:46 ChickenLips wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem You're welcome to refute the reasons I have outlined above on what compromises my opinion on him, however. In your rant you are just attacking his play style. There's nothing wrong with one-base play if you feel that is what suits you the best. The fact is Capoch is a 2500 point Protoss with a solid win-loss ratio who earned his place in this tournament. If he had "zero game sense whatsoever" I don't think he would have gotten there. That attack was completely unnecessary and I suspect there are some personal issues between you two that the public doesn't know about. | ||
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ChickenLips
2912 Posts
On November 18 2010 07:13 CheeseGrater wrote: In your rant you are just attacking his play style. There's nothing wrong with one-base play if you feel that is what suits you the best. The fact is Capoch is a 2500 point Protoss with a solid win-loss ratio who earned his place in this tournament. If he had "zero game sense whatsoever" I don't think he would have gotten there. That attack was completely unnecessary and I suspect there are some personal issues between you two that the public doesn't know about. I'm not going to continue the derailment of this thread by talking about the relationship between me and Capoch (HEE TURK ERR JURBS), I just wanted to publicly make a note of what I think about his playstyle, so people don't actually believe others that say he is good. And I think he has done considerable damage by taking out Ensnare and Check, but hell, that's just like ... my opinion, man. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On November 16 2010 15:43 TadH wrote: Even if you had known, he would have likely beaten you. He's beaten much better players than you with 4 gate (no offense of course) I just don't see why everyone is hating on him, it obviously works for him, why stop using it? It's a strategy like any other, it has counters, use them? I doubt it. As a zerg player whenever I know 100% fact that someones 4 gating its the easiest thing in the world too stop. I don't know about terran or pvp but in zvp if you know 100% absolute fact its coming its not hard to stop at all. (Also I have beaten more known better players then Capoch as well so that really doesn't mean anything lolol) The reason everyone hates on him is because he only wins with 1 build. So when 1 player only 4 gates and thats all he knows how to do whats going to happen when that build becomes easiest thing to counter by all races? Do you still see capoch at the top? No when 4 gate dies for whatever reason whether everyone knows the counter or whatever Capoch is going to go back to being a nobody just like all the other 4 gate toss players. If you really think about it its hard to respect a player who can only win with an all in build which is why he has alot of hate and even gets joked about by other casters when they see him play ("I predict a 4 gate"). I know he's your clan mate so you won't ever agree to this of course but that is why he gets all the hate. | ||
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Capoch
Argentina179 Posts
i didnt know i was a "joke" of a player, but hey, i respect both opinions.. anyways, it was a good read and made me laugh a bit lol.. gl & hf | ||
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TadH
Canada1846 Posts
55% ? look at this first | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
Yeah but when you see him play with better players on not on the Lain America server he has 57% http://www.sc2ranks.com/search/contains/us/capoch. Not bad though win % has nothing to do with how good a player is so dont' know why he brought that up lol. | ||
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Makh
Canada143 Posts
I always want to point out that there is, in fact, a fair bit of diversity in Capoch's play. Granted, all of his strategies revolve around 4 gate pressure, but the way he leverages that build into winning varies. He often aggressively places multiple pylons in his opponent's base - and keeps building more during the intense micro battles. He also likes to grab Warp Prisms to drop far earlier than most players are prepared to handle. He also varies in the proportions of Zealots/Stalkers/sentries depending on the situation. Capoch will be a very strong contender in the finals - and I very much look forward to casting those games. | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
The issue with this tourney is that, despite the solid prize money, it's fallen by the wayside in terms of attention. And I guess that just goes out to show the problem with lack of experience in the initial organizing, which was due to this being a "community tourney" that really should've taken place during Beta and not now that there's professional stuff like MLG, GSL, and IEM to compete with. The slow progression of the tournament and the lack of hype really put a damper on the potential impact. I'm not surprised a few of the players decided to be BM and not take things seriously. Regardless, the Sen vs. White-Ra games should be a success given how "hot" these two players are right now and how old this friendly rivalry is (Sen always seems to meet White-Ra in tournaments). I assume they played before as now Sen is preparing for the GSL Ro64 in Korea, but either way, hope for interesting games! | ||
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SiguR
Canada2039 Posts
There's constructive criticism and game-play analysis, and then there's whining I mean, really. You get to see white-ra play. How can you not be bursting with orgasmic euphoria at the very thought of more white-ra games? | ||
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