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On August 16 2010 19:45 ondik wrote:
Pretty bad decission to let Idra back again just because he's one of the best players and has big fanbase supporting him. I respect him as a player but he should learn a lesson, fact that people got used to his rude behaviour doesn't mean it's right and sholdn't be punished.
all.
We're not in an ethics lesson here. We don't need to punish someone because they're wrong. We should punish them if there's something beneficial to be gained from doing so. I don't think there is.
On August 16 2010 17:51 Kantutan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2010 17:39 Tachyon wrote:
G2Wolff (G2Wolff@G2Wolf.users.quakenet.org) has joined #teamliquid
<G2Wolff> 1 PP removed, 3!=4 so ban has been removed, I'm going back to bed
G2Wolff (G2Wolff@G2Wolf.users.quakenet.org) has left #teamliquid Too bad they kept that 3rd PP that IdrA shouldn't have.
To me it feels like they're still not admitting that they were at fault by only removing one point for a "we're right but we're gonna let you play" fix.
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On August 16 2010 22:45 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2010 22:42 robertdinh wrote:On August 16 2010 22:37 setzer wrote:On August 16 2010 21:59 robertdinh wrote:On August 16 2010 21:52 Sfydjklm wrote:
Wait, what happened, summary please^^ BigT wants to cover idra's games in the 3rd esl qualifier, idra doesn't want bigt shoutcasting, idra is very difficult and rude when bigt tries to cast. BigT says idra is being a dick, idra becomes even more difficult and rude because of what BigT said, Beef a tourney admin apparently tells idra he has to let bigt cast, idra thinking he is larger than life rejects what the admin says and is verbally combative with beef. Power struggle ensues.... eventually idra realizes he can not defy the admin, bigt casts. At the start of every game idra says some other shoutcaster is way better than BigT. Later on ESL realizes the brackets messed up and idra must replay a corrected match, idra unhappy with the situation can not control his temper and gets verbally combative again.... ESL decides to disqualify/ban him for previous behavior in other qualifiers building up to this qualifer. (Basically they felt they had put up with his insults and attitude for long enough and it was time to take action) Drama ensues on TL and irc. ESL feeling the backlash lacks the courage of their convictions and reverses the ban. This is ridiculous. The casters and tournaments should help the player play the matches in the best possible conditions. You claim Idra is "larger than life and verbally combative" when everything you have done leading up to that is ridiculous. It's not Idra's fault you fucked up the bracket. It is not Idra's fault you guys use a horrible cheating caster who thinks he is ABOVE the players, and will do anything for a bit of publicity. Did you ever once listen to BigT cast? If you think Idra should be punished for 1 season because of disrespect you should ban BigT for life for the same thing. Just because you run a tournament doesn't give you godmode over everything. You have just lost one more viewer. I think you've misunderstood... I am not a part of ESL, I was just giving a run down for the guy that wanted to know what happened. My mistake. Either way, whoever came to this decision makes this tournament a lot less interesting when you get rid of the absolute best American (and foreigner, period). Everything to do with American starcraft has been dominated by Idra for the last year and a half. I can guarantee they will lose viewers because of this.
Well the question becomes this, is it good for sc2 as an esport if people who act in an unprofessional manner are in the spotlight? Or is it better to develop professional players who may not be as skillful now but make sc2 as an esport actually look professional?
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On August 16 2010 22:43 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2010 22:31 Obvious wrote:
I feel the BM stuff is a completely useless arguement. It is impossible to apply the same set of rules to Esports as you can apply to more social-teambased sports. We are all probably long time internet-users, do you seriously still get offended if people call you anything? If you beat someone, and they do call you something, you should take it as a compliment, as it means you frustrated them to no end, and they saw no other way then to drop their rage upon you. I think a different set of rules should be sought, and applied. There is no reason to be pretentious on the Esports scene, everyone knows how it is to lose, and how gamers and internet users are, and as long as its just words, what is the problem. there is a big diffrence. idra is suppose to be a PROFESSIONAL player and he should conduct himself in a professional manner. not insult ppl just because he looses a game (or wins a game in alot of cases). you dont see idras kind of shit being pulled over in korea now do u.
If the rules of game state "don't chat" or "don't insult your opponent" IdrA has never broken these rules. What players do/think outside of that is irrelevant. Basically you're all being biased because you don't like the guy. If the ESL guys take this bias into the tournament then THAT is unprofessional.
He's professional to turn up on time, professional to fly to Germany, he plays professionally. This is what matters.
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51589 Posts
On August 16 2010 22:45 robertdinh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2010 22:43 Ballistixz wrote:On August 16 2010 22:31 Obvious wrote:
I feel the BM stuff is a completely useless arguement. It is impossible to apply the same set of rules to Esports as you can apply to more social-teambased sports. We are all probably long time internet-users, do you seriously still get offended if people call you anything? If you beat someone, and they do call you something, you should take it as a compliment, as it means you frustrated them to no end, and they saw no other way then to drop their rage upon you. I think a different set of rules should be sought, and applied. There is no reason to be pretentious on the Esports scene, everyone knows how it is to lose, and how gamers and internet users are, and as long as its just words, what is the problem. there is a big diffrence. idra is suppose to be a PROFESSIONAL player and he should conduct himself in a professional manner. not insult ppl just because he looses a game (or wins a game in alot of cases). you dont see idras kind of shit being pulled over in korea now do u. Nope you don't, the leagues in korea would not stand for that type of behavior. If EU and US want esports to be taken seriously the players need to grow up and act like professionals. Right now the sponsors don't even really take it seriously, they just use players and teams for advertising.
... and welcome to the brick wall Western ESPORTS has tried to bypass for the last decade. The attitudes are not going to change in a million years.
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On August 16 2010 22:47 Klive5ive wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2010 22:43 Ballistixz wrote:On August 16 2010 22:31 Obvious wrote:
I feel the BM stuff is a completely useless arguement. It is impossible to apply the same set of rules to Esports as you can apply to more social-teambased sports. We are all probably long time internet-users, do you seriously still get offended if people call you anything? If you beat someone, and they do call you something, you should take it as a compliment, as it means you frustrated them to no end, and they saw no other way then to drop their rage upon you. I think a different set of rules should be sought, and applied. There is no reason to be pretentious on the Esports scene, everyone knows how it is to lose, and how gamers and internet users are, and as long as its just words, what is the problem. there is a big diffrence. idra is suppose to be a PROFESSIONAL player and he should conduct himself in a professional manner. not insult ppl just because he looses a game (or wins a game in alot of cases). you dont see idras kind of shit being pulled over in korea now do u. If the rules of game state "don't chat" or "don't insult your opponent" IdrA has never broken these rules. What players do/think outside of that is irrelevant. Basically you're all being biased because you don't like the guy. If the ESL guys take this bias into the tournament then THAT is unprofessional. He's professional to turn up on time, professional to fly to Germany, he plays professionally. This is what matters.
Oh but the rules do not allow you to insult your opponent and be verbally abusive to admins and players alike. So he isn't following the rules and isn't being professional.
On August 16 2010 22:48 GTR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2010 22:45 robertdinh wrote:On August 16 2010 22:43 Ballistixz wrote:On August 16 2010 22:31 Obvious wrote:
I feel the BM stuff is a completely useless arguement. It is impossible to apply the same set of rules to Esports as you can apply to more social-teambased sports. We are all probably long time internet-users, do you seriously still get offended if people call you anything? If you beat someone, and they do call you something, you should take it as a compliment, as it means you frustrated them to no end, and they saw no other way then to drop their rage upon you. I think a different set of rules should be sought, and applied. There is no reason to be pretentious on the Esports scene, everyone knows how it is to lose, and how gamers and internet users are, and as long as its just words, what is the problem. there is a big diffrence. idra is suppose to be a PROFESSIONAL player and he should conduct himself in a professional manner. not insult ppl just because he looses a game (or wins a game in alot of cases). you dont see idras kind of shit being pulled over in korea now do u. Nope you don't, the leagues in korea would not stand for that type of behavior. If EU and US want esports to be taken seriously the players need to grow up and act like professionals. Right now the sponsors don't even really take it seriously, they just use players and teams for advertising. ... and welcome to the brick wall Western ESPORTS has tried to bypass for the last decade. The attitudes are not going to change in a million years.
That is why I am very skeptical of sc2 as an esport, a lot of people argue that the US and EU don't need Korea to like SC2 for it to flourish as an esport, but the US and EU have hardly proven they can sustain a professional esports scene.
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On August 16 2010 22:25 Lighioana wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2010 22:14 Thunderfist wrote:
Can i see more IdrA's lame excuses and tears ? Oh and his talking how he's the best and everyone are a joke. Plox :3 Said the gold player ![[image loading]](http://sc2sig.com/s/eu/959598-1.png?1281965073)
ad hominem doesnt make you any better than him, 300 diamond player.
Also his criticism towards IdrA's attitude is warranted.
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On August 16 2010 22:49 ChickenLips wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2010 22:25 Lighioana wrote:On August 16 2010 22:14 Thunderfist wrote:
Can i see more IdrA's lame excuses and tears ? Oh and his talking how he's the best and everyone are a joke. Plox :3 Said the gold player ad hominem doesnt make you any better than him, 300 diamond player. Also his criticism towards IdrA's attitude is warranted.
"If he's an arse it's okay if we're arseholes to him"
I never understood how popular that mindset is here.
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On August 16 2010 22:47 robertdinh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2010 22:45 setzer wrote:On August 16 2010 22:42 robertdinh wrote:On August 16 2010 22:37 setzer wrote:On August 16 2010 21:59 robertdinh wrote:On August 16 2010 21:52 Sfydjklm wrote:
Wait, what happened, summary please^^ BigT wants to cover idra's games in the 3rd esl qualifier, idra doesn't want bigt shoutcasting, idra is very difficult and rude when bigt tries to cast. BigT says idra is being a dick, idra becomes even more difficult and rude because of what BigT said, Beef a tourney admin apparently tells idra he has to let bigt cast, idra thinking he is larger than life rejects what the admin says and is verbally combative with beef. Power struggle ensues.... eventually idra realizes he can not defy the admin, bigt casts. At the start of every game idra says some other shoutcaster is way better than BigT. Later on ESL realizes the brackets messed up and idra must replay a corrected match, idra unhappy with the situation can not control his temper and gets verbally combative again.... ESL decides to disqualify/ban him for previous behavior in other qualifiers building up to this qualifer. (Basically they felt they had put up with his insults and attitude for long enough and it was time to take action) Drama ensues on TL and irc. ESL feeling the backlash lacks the courage of their convictions and reverses the ban. This is ridiculous. The casters and tournaments should help the player play the matches in the best possible conditions. You claim Idra is "larger than life and verbally combative" when everything you have done leading up to that is ridiculous. It's not Idra's fault you fucked up the bracket. It is not Idra's fault you guys use a horrible cheating caster who thinks he is ABOVE the players, and will do anything for a bit of publicity. Did you ever once listen to BigT cast? If you think Idra should be punished for 1 season because of disrespect you should ban BigT for life for the same thing. Just because you run a tournament doesn't give you godmode over everything. You have just lost one more viewer. I think you've misunderstood... I am not a part of ESL, I was just giving a run down for the guy that wanted to know what happened. My mistake. Either way, whoever came to this decision makes this tournament a lot less interesting when you get rid of the absolute best American (and foreigner, period). Everything to do with American starcraft has been dominated by Idra for the last year and a half. I can guarantee they will lose viewers because of this. Well the question becomes this, is it good for sc2 as an esport if people who act in an unprofessional manner are in the spotlight? Or is it better to develop professional players who may not be as skillful now but make sc2 as an esport actually look professional?
Idra is the only professional SC2 player. Period. It isn't about arbitrary image ESL wants to set up for how a player must act within the framework their "rules allow." Any case with Idra has to be reviewed different given the situation he is in. Banning someone over an altercations about casters is ludicrous. The organization should always do its best to accommodate the player's wishes.
Idra doesn't lose much being banned (1 season? One tournament?) but ESL loses a lot for banning the best American.
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i just checked the German ESL site.
i only see 3 Penalty Point against IdrA, was the 4th awarded outside of games?
he has two in IdrA vs PoorBilly and one in IdrA vs. ajtls, could not find the 4th?
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On August 16 2010 22:47 robertdinh wrote:
Well the question becomes this, is it good for sc2 as an esport if people who act in an unprofessional manner are in the spotlight? Or is it better to develop professional players who may not be as skillful now but make sc2 as an esport actually look professional?
Sports are about having the most talented people compete. Sure they might get a slap on the wrist but the bottom line is they are the most talented people at what they do and they get to play.
On August 16 2010 22:54 PulseSUI wrote:
i just checked the German ESL site.
i only see 3 Penalty Point against IdrA, was the 4th awarded outside of games?
he has two in IdrA vs PoorBilly and one in IdrA vs. ajtls, could not find the 4th?
They removed one because they realized what it was doing to their credibility in the SC2 community.
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Thanks to BigT for doing an awesome job yesterday, the 3k+ viewers were well deserved. I also want to thank all the players for putting up such awesome and epic games, thanks.
I want to thank Intel and ESL for giving us this great action packed tournament, it truly is good entertainment.
Thanks to Blizzard for this awesome game, very nice job to you guys, I see a great future for SC2.
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bm by everyone involved and lol @ everyone point fingers at each other.
big lolz go out to the directors of the tourney that allowed this to take place, what would have happened if you message Idra saying 'This is your final warning - you talk shit to us again or anyone here you're out.'
and another big lolz to Idra for not knowing when he should stfu and just play the game.
tl;dr - lullz all around
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On August 16 2010 22:52 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2010 22:47 robertdinh wrote:On August 16 2010 22:45 setzer wrote:On August 16 2010 22:42 robertdinh wrote:On August 16 2010 22:37 setzer wrote:On August 16 2010 21:59 robertdinh wrote:On August 16 2010 21:52 Sfydjklm wrote:
Wait, what happened, summary please^^ BigT wants to cover idra's games in the 3rd esl qualifier, idra doesn't want bigt shoutcasting, idra is very difficult and rude when bigt tries to cast. BigT says idra is being a dick, idra becomes even more difficult and rude because of what BigT said, Beef a tourney admin apparently tells idra he has to let bigt cast, idra thinking he is larger than life rejects what the admin says and is verbally combative with beef. Power struggle ensues.... eventually idra realizes he can not defy the admin, bigt casts. At the start of every game idra says some other shoutcaster is way better than BigT. Later on ESL realizes the brackets messed up and idra must replay a corrected match, idra unhappy with the situation can not control his temper and gets verbally combative again.... ESL decides to disqualify/ban him for previous behavior in other qualifiers building up to this qualifer. (Basically they felt they had put up with his insults and attitude for long enough and it was time to take action) Drama ensues on TL and irc. ESL feeling the backlash lacks the courage of their convictions and reverses the ban. This is ridiculous. The casters and tournaments should help the player play the matches in the best possible conditions. You claim Idra is "larger than life and verbally combative" when everything you have done leading up to that is ridiculous. It's not Idra's fault you fucked up the bracket. It is not Idra's fault you guys use a horrible cheating caster who thinks he is ABOVE the players, and will do anything for a bit of publicity. Did you ever once listen to BigT cast? If you think Idra should be punished for 1 season because of disrespect you should ban BigT for life for the same thing. Just because you run a tournament doesn't give you godmode over everything. You have just lost one more viewer. I think you've misunderstood... I am not a part of ESL, I was just giving a run down for the guy that wanted to know what happened. My mistake. Either way, whoever came to this decision makes this tournament a lot less interesting when you get rid of the absolute best American (and foreigner, period). Everything to do with American starcraft has been dominated by Idra for the last year and a half. I can guarantee they will lose viewers because of this. Well the question becomes this, is it good for sc2 as an esport if people who act in an unprofessional manner are in the spotlight? Or is it better to develop professional players who may not be as skillful now but make sc2 as an esport actually look professional? Idra is the only professional SC2 player. Period. It isn't about arbitrary image ESL wants to set up for how a player must act within the framework their "rules allow." Any case with Idra has to be reviewed different given the situation he is in. Banning someone over an altercations about casters is ludicrous. The organization should always do its best to accommodate the player's wishes. Idra doesn't lose much being banned (1 season? One tournament?) but ESL loses a lot for banning the best American.
And everyone that wants sc2 to be a longlasting esport loses out when they try to hype it up as the next big thing and then people laugh at it because of how unprofessional the "pros" are.
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On August 16 2010 23:00 robertdinh wrote:
And everyone that wants sc2 to be a longlasting esport loses out when they try to hype it up as the next big thing and then people laugh at it because of how unprofessional the "pros" are.
LeBron James is the most professional person in the world.
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On August 16 2010 23:00 robertdinh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2010 22:52 setzer wrote:On August 16 2010 22:47 robertdinh wrote:On August 16 2010 22:45 setzer wrote:On August 16 2010 22:42 robertdinh wrote:On August 16 2010 22:37 setzer wrote:On August 16 2010 21:59 robertdinh wrote:On August 16 2010 21:52 Sfydjklm wrote:
Wait, what happened, summary please^^ BigT wants to cover idra's games in the 3rd esl qualifier, idra doesn't want bigt shoutcasting, idra is very difficult and rude when bigt tries to cast. BigT says idra is being a dick, idra becomes even more difficult and rude because of what BigT said, Beef a tourney admin apparently tells idra he has to let bigt cast, idra thinking he is larger than life rejects what the admin says and is verbally combative with beef. Power struggle ensues.... eventually idra realizes he can not defy the admin, bigt casts. At the start of every game idra says some other shoutcaster is way better than BigT. Later on ESL realizes the brackets messed up and idra must replay a corrected match, idra unhappy with the situation can not control his temper and gets verbally combative again.... ESL decides to disqualify/ban him for previous behavior in other qualifiers building up to this qualifer. (Basically they felt they had put up with his insults and attitude for long enough and it was time to take action) Drama ensues on TL and irc. ESL feeling the backlash lacks the courage of their convictions and reverses the ban. This is ridiculous. The casters and tournaments should help the player play the matches in the best possible conditions. You claim Idra is "larger than life and verbally combative" when everything you have done leading up to that is ridiculous. It's not Idra's fault you fucked up the bracket. It is not Idra's fault you guys use a horrible cheating caster who thinks he is ABOVE the players, and will do anything for a bit of publicity. Did you ever once listen to BigT cast? If you think Idra should be punished for 1 season because of disrespect you should ban BigT for life for the same thing. Just because you run a tournament doesn't give you godmode over everything. You have just lost one more viewer. I think you've misunderstood... I am not a part of ESL, I was just giving a run down for the guy that wanted to know what happened. My mistake. Either way, whoever came to this decision makes this tournament a lot less interesting when you get rid of the absolute best American (and foreigner, period). Everything to do with American starcraft has been dominated by Idra for the last year and a half. I can guarantee they will lose viewers because of this. Well the question becomes this, is it good for sc2 as an esport if people who act in an unprofessional manner are in the spotlight? Or is it better to develop professional players who may not be as skillful now but make sc2 as an esport actually look professional? Idra is the only professional SC2 player. Period. It isn't about arbitrary image ESL wants to set up for how a player must act within the framework their "rules allow." Any case with Idra has to be reviewed different given the situation he is in. Banning someone over an altercations about casters is ludicrous. The organization should always do its best to accommodate the player's wishes. Idra doesn't lose much being banned (1 season? One tournament?) but ESL loses a lot for banning the best American. And everyone that wants sc2 to be a longlasting esport loses out when they try to hype it up as the next big thing and then people laugh at it because of how unprofessional the "pros" are.
I think you're taking it way out of proportion. I don't think any newcomers are going to look at the actions of 1 player and decide the entire Starcraft community is a bunch of bad mannered idiots. Every sport has their trouble maker. I can't think of one sport that doesn't have at least one Idra. It's more likely that a new person who sees Idra's are going to decide "oh, this guy must be the John Terry of Starcraft or something", rather than "oh my god I am so offended by one guy insulting another player, I will never watch this crap ever again".
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51589 Posts
On August 16 2010 23:05 scottyyy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2010 23:00 robertdinh wrote:On August 16 2010 22:52 setzer wrote:On August 16 2010 22:47 robertdinh wrote:On August 16 2010 22:45 setzer wrote:On August 16 2010 22:42 robertdinh wrote:On August 16 2010 22:37 setzer wrote:On August 16 2010 21:59 robertdinh wrote:On August 16 2010 21:52 Sfydjklm wrote:
Wait, what happened, summary please^^ BigT wants to cover idra's games in the 3rd esl qualifier, idra doesn't want bigt shoutcasting, idra is very difficult and rude when bigt tries to cast. BigT says idra is being a dick, idra becomes even more difficult and rude because of what BigT said, Beef a tourney admin apparently tells idra he has to let bigt cast, idra thinking he is larger than life rejects what the admin says and is verbally combative with beef. Power struggle ensues.... eventually idra realizes he can not defy the admin, bigt casts. At the start of every game idra says some other shoutcaster is way better than BigT. Later on ESL realizes the brackets messed up and idra must replay a corrected match, idra unhappy with the situation can not control his temper and gets verbally combative again.... ESL decides to disqualify/ban him for previous behavior in other qualifiers building up to this qualifer. (Basically they felt they had put up with his insults and attitude for long enough and it was time to take action) Drama ensues on TL and irc. ESL feeling the backlash lacks the courage of their convictions and reverses the ban. This is ridiculous. The casters and tournaments should help the player play the matches in the best possible conditions. You claim Idra is "larger than life and verbally combative" when everything you have done leading up to that is ridiculous. It's not Idra's fault you fucked up the bracket. It is not Idra's fault you guys use a horrible cheating caster who thinks he is ABOVE the players, and will do anything for a bit of publicity. Did you ever once listen to BigT cast? If you think Idra should be punished for 1 season because of disrespect you should ban BigT for life for the same thing. Just because you run a tournament doesn't give you godmode over everything. You have just lost one more viewer. I think you've misunderstood... I am not a part of ESL, I was just giving a run down for the guy that wanted to know what happened. My mistake. Either way, whoever came to this decision makes this tournament a lot less interesting when you get rid of the absolute best American (and foreigner, period). Everything to do with American starcraft has been dominated by Idra for the last year and a half. I can guarantee they will lose viewers because of this. Well the question becomes this, is it good for sc2 as an esport if people who act in an unprofessional manner are in the spotlight? Or is it better to develop professional players who may not be as skillful now but make sc2 as an esport actually look professional? Idra is the only professional SC2 player. Period. It isn't about arbitrary image ESL wants to set up for how a player must act within the framework their "rules allow." Any case with Idra has to be reviewed different given the situation he is in. Banning someone over an altercations about casters is ludicrous. The organization should always do its best to accommodate the player's wishes. Idra doesn't lose much being banned (1 season? One tournament?) but ESL loses a lot for banning the best American. And everyone that wants sc2 to be a longlasting esport loses out when they try to hype it up as the next big thing and then people laugh at it because of how unprofessional the "pros" are. I think you're taking it way out of proportion. I don't think any newcomers are going to look at the actions of 1 player and decide the entire Starcraft community is a bunch of bad mannered idiots. Every sport has their trouble maker. I can't think of one sport that doesn't have at least one Idra.
Lawn Bowls?
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On August 16 2010 23:05 scottyyy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2010 23:00 robertdinh wrote:On August 16 2010 22:52 setzer wrote:On August 16 2010 22:47 robertdinh wrote:On August 16 2010 22:45 setzer wrote:On August 16 2010 22:42 robertdinh wrote:On August 16 2010 22:37 setzer wrote:On August 16 2010 21:59 robertdinh wrote:On August 16 2010 21:52 Sfydjklm wrote:
Wait, what happened, summary please^^ BigT wants to cover idra's games in the 3rd esl qualifier, idra doesn't want bigt shoutcasting, idra is very difficult and rude when bigt tries to cast. BigT says idra is being a dick, idra becomes even more difficult and rude because of what BigT said, Beef a tourney admin apparently tells idra he has to let bigt cast, idra thinking he is larger than life rejects what the admin says and is verbally combative with beef. Power struggle ensues.... eventually idra realizes he can not defy the admin, bigt casts. At the start of every game idra says some other shoutcaster is way better than BigT. Later on ESL realizes the brackets messed up and idra must replay a corrected match, idra unhappy with the situation can not control his temper and gets verbally combative again.... ESL decides to disqualify/ban him for previous behavior in other qualifiers building up to this qualifer. (Basically they felt they had put up with his insults and attitude for long enough and it was time to take action) Drama ensues on TL and irc. ESL feeling the backlash lacks the courage of their convictions and reverses the ban. This is ridiculous. The casters and tournaments should help the player play the matches in the best possible conditions. You claim Idra is "larger than life and verbally combative" when everything you have done leading up to that is ridiculous. It's not Idra's fault you fucked up the bracket. It is not Idra's fault you guys use a horrible cheating caster who thinks he is ABOVE the players, and will do anything for a bit of publicity. Did you ever once listen to BigT cast? If you think Idra should be punished for 1 season because of disrespect you should ban BigT for life for the same thing. Just because you run a tournament doesn't give you godmode over everything. You have just lost one more viewer. I think you've misunderstood... I am not a part of ESL, I was just giving a run down for the guy that wanted to know what happened. My mistake. Either way, whoever came to this decision makes this tournament a lot less interesting when you get rid of the absolute best American (and foreigner, period). Everything to do with American starcraft has been dominated by Idra for the last year and a half. I can guarantee they will lose viewers because of this. Well the question becomes this, is it good for sc2 as an esport if people who act in an unprofessional manner are in the spotlight? Or is it better to develop professional players who may not be as skillful now but make sc2 as an esport actually look professional? Idra is the only professional SC2 player. Period. It isn't about arbitrary image ESL wants to set up for how a player must act within the framework their "rules allow." Any case with Idra has to be reviewed different given the situation he is in. Banning someone over an altercations about casters is ludicrous. The organization should always do its best to accommodate the player's wishes. Idra doesn't lose much being banned (1 season? One tournament?) but ESL loses a lot for banning the best American. And everyone that wants sc2 to be a longlasting esport loses out when they try to hype it up as the next big thing and then people laugh at it because of how unprofessional the "pros" are. I think you're taking it way out of proportion. I don't think any newcomers are going to look at the actions of 1 player and decide the entire Starcraft community is a bunch of bad mannered idiots. Every sport has their trouble maker. I can't think of one sport that doesn't have at least one Idra.
It's called setting standards, if one player can be BM and unprofessional what's to stop others. The internet isn't exactly a shining beacon of professional attitudes, which is why esports growth has been stunted so much in the west.
On August 16 2010 23:01 Zingerac wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2010 23:00 robertdinh wrote:
And everyone that wants sc2 to be a longlasting esport loses out when they try to hype it up as the next big thing and then people laugh at it because of how unprofessional the "pros" are.
LeBron James is the most professional person in the world.
Yes because we all know basketball a sport that is solidified in it's professional scene, is the same as a video game that is trying to create a future of longevity in the western esports scene.
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On August 16 2010 23:06 robertdinh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2010 23:05 scottyyy wrote:On August 16 2010 23:00 robertdinh wrote:On August 16 2010 22:52 setzer wrote:On August 16 2010 22:47 robertdinh wrote:On August 16 2010 22:45 setzer wrote:On August 16 2010 22:42 robertdinh wrote:On August 16 2010 22:37 setzer wrote:On August 16 2010 21:59 robertdinh wrote:On August 16 2010 21:52 Sfydjklm wrote:
Wait, what happened, summary please^^ BigT wants to cover idra's games in the 3rd esl qualifier, idra doesn't want bigt shoutcasting, idra is very difficult and rude when bigt tries to cast. BigT says idra is being a dick, idra becomes even more difficult and rude because of what BigT said, Beef a tourney admin apparently tells idra he has to let bigt cast, idra thinking he is larger than life rejects what the admin says and is verbally combative with beef. Power struggle ensues.... eventually idra realizes he can not defy the admin, bigt casts. At the start of every game idra says some other shoutcaster is way better than BigT. Later on ESL realizes the brackets messed up and idra must replay a corrected match, idra unhappy with the situation can not control his temper and gets verbally combative again.... ESL decides to disqualify/ban him for previous behavior in other qualifiers building up to this qualifer. (Basically they felt they had put up with his insults and attitude for long enough and it was time to take action) Drama ensues on TL and irc. ESL feeling the backlash lacks the courage of their convictions and reverses the ban. This is ridiculous. The casters and tournaments should help the player play the matches in the best possible conditions. You claim Idra is "larger than life and verbally combative" when everything you have done leading up to that is ridiculous. It's not Idra's fault you fucked up the bracket. It is not Idra's fault you guys use a horrible cheating caster who thinks he is ABOVE the players, and will do anything for a bit of publicity. Did you ever once listen to BigT cast? If you think Idra should be punished for 1 season because of disrespect you should ban BigT for life for the same thing. Just because you run a tournament doesn't give you godmode over everything. You have just lost one more viewer. I think you've misunderstood... I am not a part of ESL, I was just giving a run down for the guy that wanted to know what happened. My mistake. Either way, whoever came to this decision makes this tournament a lot less interesting when you get rid of the absolute best American (and foreigner, period). Everything to do with American starcraft has been dominated by Idra for the last year and a half. I can guarantee they will lose viewers because of this. Well the question becomes this, is it good for sc2 as an esport if people who act in an unprofessional manner are in the spotlight? Or is it better to develop professional players who may not be as skillful now but make sc2 as an esport actually look professional? Idra is the only professional SC2 player. Period. It isn't about arbitrary image ESL wants to set up for how a player must act within the framework their "rules allow." Any case with Idra has to be reviewed different given the situation he is in. Banning someone over an altercations about casters is ludicrous. The organization should always do its best to accommodate the player's wishes. Idra doesn't lose much being banned (1 season? One tournament?) but ESL loses a lot for banning the best American. And everyone that wants sc2 to be a longlasting esport loses out when they try to hype it up as the next big thing and then people laugh at it because of how unprofessional the "pros" are. I think you're taking it way out of proportion. I don't think any newcomers are going to look at the actions of 1 player and decide the entire Starcraft community is a bunch of bad mannered idiots. Every sport has their trouble maker. I can't think of one sport that doesn't have at least one Idra. It's called setting standards, if one player can be BM and unprofessional what's to stop others. The internet isn't exactly a shining beacon of professional attitudes, which is why esports growth has been stunted so much in the west. Show nested quote +On August 16 2010 23:01 Zingerac wrote:On August 16 2010 23:00 robertdinh wrote:
And everyone that wants sc2 to be a longlasting esport loses out when they try to hype it up as the next big thing and then people laugh at it because of how unprofessional the "pros" are.
LeBron James is the most professional person in the world. Yes because we all know basketball a sport that is solidified in it's professional scene, is the same as a video game that is trying to create a future of longevity in the western esports scene.
I personally think it's unreasonable for you to expect such high standards from a player base that is mostly teenagers playing an incredibly competitive game over the internet.
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Read the last 20 pages of the thread, wow did a shitstorm happen after I went to bed O_o
So as far as I understand idra now has only 3 penalty points and will be allowed to continue to play? But what happens since he is flying to Germany now?
ESL really dropped the ball on this one, but at the same time idra's attitude does not help matters.
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I can't believe so many people watched BigT's stream yesterday, hes a self righteous idiot with an ego bigger than even idra's and to top it all off hes probably the worse caster I've ever heard (not to mention the constant fucking whining).
Also shit like this wouldn't happen if these were REAL tourneys not these terribly organised "oh yeah X game is going on get a caster in there who cares what the players need" If you are going to have a tournament casted you should at least make an effort to set out which games are to be cast and when they will be casted beforehand.
For all the talk of "professionalism" in this thread surely you can see these huge online signup tournaments are a far cry from anything resembling a "professional" tourney.
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EPT
