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On August 16 2010 22:06 Zingerac wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2010 22:05 robertdinh wrote:
He wasn't banned for no reason, i think this is the part you don't understand. He has been giving esl admins attitude for weeks and weeks all culminating into an attempted punishment yesterday for his constantly poor behavior. And the ESL has not paid him for a tournament 7 months ago.
Ok but whether they pay him or not, if he is playing in their tourney based on their rules he should conduct himself in a professional manner.
This is a common problem in this day and age, youth don't understand the concept of accountability. You are responsible for your own actions, whatever your reasoning is for your actions, you still are responsible for them.
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On August 16 2010 22:09 robertdinh wrote:
This is a common problem in this day and age, youth don't understand the concept of accountability. You are responsible for your own actions, whatever your reasoning is for your actions, you still are responsible for them.
And the "admin" of this tournament need to be held accountable just as much as the players do.
This right here shows just how fucking clueless they are.
+ Show Spoiler +
ShadowDrgn: Strifeco never responded to Jobless' messages. By the time we saw it, it was after two rounds had been played.
IdrA: If you don't want to play, that's fine. Your lack of respect towards casters, ESL staff, players, and sponsors makes you an insult to pro gamers. You said it best...
"you're a joke" - Silver vs IdrA IEM Cup I
I hope you enjoyed you stay at National ESL's IEM, you're done for the season.
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Can i see more IdrA's lame excuses and tears ? Oh and his talking how he's the best and everyone are a joke. Plox :3
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idra is wide known for his BM and he is extremly unprofessional. whether esl screwed up or not i still dont know why u ppl blatanly ignores this fact. he insults the hell out of players for no real reason other then pure rage and gets away with it often. even posts on these very forums insulting people both directly and indirectly.
he is not justified at all and tbh idk why ppl put up with him. its obviously good entertainment but to try and say idra is justified is BS. both ESL and idra is at fault. dont be so one sided and actually look at how bad mannered idra naturally is. u can hardly take the guy seriously without busting out laughing because of his rage and BM.
infact all u have to do is say his name and people automatically think "BM" or "lol rage quit"
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On August 16 2010 22:05 robertdinh wrote:
If he is going to play in their league he should play by their rules.
Indeed, things should be done by the rules. That's the problem here though, isn't it 
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On August 16 2010 22:13 Zingerac wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2010 22:09 robertdinh wrote:
This is a common problem in this day and age, youth don't understand the concept of accountability. You are responsible for your own actions, whatever your reasoning is for your actions, you still are responsible for them. And the "admin" of this tournament need to be held accountable just as much as the players do. This right here shows just how fucking clueless they are. + Show Spoiler +
ShadowDrgn: Strifeco never responded to Jobless' messages. By the time we saw it, it was after two rounds had been played.
IdrA: If you don't want to play, that's fine. Your lack of respect towards casters, ESL staff, players, and sponsors makes you an insult to pro gamers. You said it best...
"you're a joke" - Silver vs IdrA IEM Cup I
I hope you enjoyed you stay at National ESL's IEM, you're done for the season.
See the difference between you and me is I am trying to conduct a civil conversation based on common sense and logic, you get defensive and call people "fucking clueless" because you think you have a point, but in reality your point doesn't have much merit.
Idra is responsible for his own actions, if he is breaking the rules of a tournament and they decide to punish him for it, there is no complaint to be had about his actions that he is responsible and has to be held accountable for. If an admin messes up some sorta aspect of a tournament that is his fault and he is responsible for it, but that does not give you the right as a player participating to go and verbally attack him in any way shape or form, as I said before, you are responsible for your actions.
You simply don't understand this concept it would seem.
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On August 16 2010 22:09 robertdinh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2010 22:06 Zingerac wrote:On August 16 2010 22:05 robertdinh wrote:
He wasn't banned for no reason, i think this is the part you don't understand. He has been giving esl admins attitude for weeks and weeks all culminating into an attempted punishment yesterday for his constantly poor behavior. And the ESL has not paid him for a tournament 7 months ago. Ok but whether they pay him or not, if he is playing in their tourney based on their rules he should conduct himself in a professional manner. This is a common problem in this day and age, youth don't understand the concept of accountability. You are responsible for your own actions, whatever your reasoning is for your actions, you still are responsible for them.
Showing up on time, playing the matches they ask, following the rules of the game that IS acting professionally.
What he happens to think of the tournament is completely irrelevant. Nowhere has he personally insulted anyone.
"youth don't understand the concept of accountability" - now you just sound like an intolerable jackass.
By your own logic of accountability you should be banned by now.
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On August 16 2010 22:19 Klive5ive wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2010 22:09 robertdinh wrote:On August 16 2010 22:06 Zingerac wrote:On August 16 2010 22:05 robertdinh wrote:
He wasn't banned for no reason, i think this is the part you don't understand. He has been giving esl admins attitude for weeks and weeks all culminating into an attempted punishment yesterday for his constantly poor behavior. And the ESL has not paid him for a tournament 7 months ago. Ok but whether they pay him or not, if he is playing in their tourney based on their rules he should conduct himself in a professional manner. This is a common problem in this day and age, youth don't understand the concept of accountability. You are responsible for your own actions, whatever your reasoning is for your actions, you still are responsible for them. Showing up on time, playing the matches they ask, following the rules of the game that IS acting professionally. What he happens to think of the tournament is completely irrelevant. Nowhere has he personally insulted anyone. "youth don't understand the concept of accountability" - now you just sound like an intolerable jackass. By your own logic of accountability you should be banned by now.
Ah but here is where you are misinformed, he personally insults players and admins on a frequent basis in these esl qualifier tourneys. He doesn't follow the rules, because i am pretty sure that the rules don't allow you to just flame everyone you encounter in a tourney.
If anything ESL has been extremely lenient towards his behavior.
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On August 16 2010 22:14 Thunderfist wrote:
Can i see more IdrA's lame excuses and tears ? Oh and his talking how he's the best and everyone are a joke. Plox :3
Said the gold player
![[image loading]](http://sc2sig.com/s/eu/959598-1.png?1281965073)
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I'll be the first to admit, Idra has every right to be mad because of the way this ESL thing played out and I have nothing but respect for Idra in regards to his gameplay and accomplishments in Korea.
That said, I'm suprised CJ and the esports community tolerates Idra's attitude. I have no problem with Idra being upset at balance, or complaining about lag or other factors but his personal attacks on players is offensive and disrespectful.
Idra is one of, if not the most sound mechanical player. Of course people are going to cheese him. Its the best chance they have to win. Idra can't possibly expect players to actively engage him in a macro game every time when they know they will lose 99% of those games. This is a game, and the goal of that game is to win. Personally attacking players for choosing the best strategy for that reflects poorly on Idra, CJ, and esports in general.
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On August 16 2010 22:22 robertdinh wrote:
Ah but here is where you are misinformed, he personally insults players and admins on a frequent basis in these esl qualifier tourneys. He doesn't follow the rules, because i am pretty sure that the rules don't allow you to just flame everyone you encounter in a tourney.
Then they have to specify the incident where the rule was broken instead of a vague "He is rude so I shall ban him". A referee cannot punish a player just because he is known as a dirty player. The playerhas to commit the foul first and the referee needs to punish him for the foul at that particular time. The referee cannot just retroactively punish him as and when it is convenient for the referee. In this case, the timing of the ban is just too suspicious and people are rightfully suspecting that the ban was to cover the screw up in the organization of the matches.
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On August 16 2010 22:14 Thunderfist wrote:
Can i see more IdrA's lame excuses and tears ? Oh and his talking how he's the best and everyone are a joke. Plox :3
I love idrA and i dont care about being bad mannered, the result ( win or lose ) is the important thing.
And he is pro not you so..
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On August 16 2010 22:18 robertdinh wrote:
See the difference between you and me is I am trying to conduct a civil conversation based on common sense and logic, you get defensive and call people "fucking clueless" because you think you have a point, but in reality your point doesn't have much merit.
Idra is responsible for his own actions, if he is breaking the rules of a tournament and they decide to punish him for it, there is no complaint to be had about his actions that he is responsible and has to be held accountable for. If an admin messes up some sorta aspect of a tournament that is his fault and he is responsible for it, but that does not give you the right as a player participating to go and verbally attack him in any way shape or form, as I said before, you are responsible for your actions.
You simply don't understand this concept it would seem.
The problem is you're arguing without facts. ESL themselves saw that the ban was unjustified and have removed it. They gave him 2 penalty points for refusing to let the caster cast. Whatever, he had his reasons whether they're valid to other people or not is not the issue.
In order to get banned for even a week you require 4 penalty points. (this is by their own rules after all) The reason he got "banned" was because ESL had their heads up their asses and let StrifeCro advance when they shouldn't of. This caused IdrA to of had to replay some of his rounds. He had no objection to doing this, it just had to wait until after his lunch.
As Artosis has pointed out IdrA lives in Korea in a PROFESSIONAL SC house with the PROFESSIONAL team he gets paid to play for. In this house they have scheduled time to eat if they don't eat during this time they don't get to take breaks for meals.
After he got back from his lunch he was DQ'd because he had been banned even though ESL had no valid reason to give him additional Penalty Points. THIS IS THE PROBLEM. ESL has forsaken its own rules to cover up a mistake it made by letting StrifeCro advance.
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I feel the BM stuff is a completely useless arguement. It is impossible to apply the same set of rules to Esports as you can apply to more social-teambased sports. We are all probably long time internet-users, do you seriously still get offended if people call you anything? If you beat someone, and they do call you something, you should take it as a compliment, as it means you frustrated them to no end, and they saw no other way then to drop their rage upon you. I think a different set of rules should be sought, and applied. There is no reason to be pretentious on the Esports scene, everyone knows how it is to lose, and how gamers and internet users are, and as long as its just words, what is the problem.
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I think BigT acted appropriately. I was watching the stream and didn't think he was whining at all. He was told by Beef (tourny admin) he'd get to cast the games, and in the stream I remember IdrA saying he wouldn't let BigT cast because ESL owed IdrA money from months prior (I didn't see the lag comment but it doesn't really change my point if it was). BigT got caught in the middle of IdrA and ESL. When it didn't look like it was going to work with IdrA, he went and casted a different game. He didn't just sit there crying out to Beef saying "make him let me cast him" or "I need to cast him." He continually said he just wanted to cast games and was looking for games to cast. Going and asking what's going on is a farcry from "whining." IMHO, I thought BigT was a quality caster but a little immature.
All that said, I'd have done the same as IdrA. If I was owed money by ESL for shit I won half a year ago, you'd better believe I'd be antagonistic to them too.
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On August 16 2010 21:59 robertdinh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2010 21:52 Sfydjklm wrote:
Wait, what happened, summary please^^ BigT wants to cover idra's games in the 3rd esl qualifier, idra doesn't want bigt shoutcasting, idra is very difficult and rude when bigt tries to cast. BigT says idra is being a dick, idra becomes even more difficult and rude because of what BigT said, Beef a tourney admin apparently tells idra he has to let bigt cast, idra thinking he is larger than life rejects what the admin says and is verbally combative with beef. Power struggle ensues.... eventually idra realizes he can not defy the admin, bigt casts. At the start of every game idra says some other shoutcaster is way better than BigT. Later on ESL realizes the brackets messed up and idra must replay a corrected match, idra unhappy with the situation can not control his temper and gets verbally combative again.... ESL decides to disqualify/ban him for previous behavior in other qualifiers building up to this qualifer. (Basically they felt they had put up with his insults and attitude for long enough and it was time to take action) Drama ensues on TL and irc. ESL feeling the backlash lacks the courage of their convictions and reverses the ban.
This is ridiculous. The casters and tournaments should help the player play the matches in the best possible conditions. You claim Idra is "larger than life and verbally combative" when everything you have done leading up to that is ridiculous. It's not Idra's fault you fucked up the bracket. It is not Idra's fault you guys use a horrible cheating caster who thinks he is ABOVE the players, and will do anything for a bit of publicity. Did you ever once listen to BigT cast? If you think Idra should be punished for 1 season because of disrespect you should ban BigT for life for the same thing. Just because you run a tournament doesn't give you godmode over everything. You have just lost one more viewer.
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On August 16 2010 22:37 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2010 21:59 robertdinh wrote:On August 16 2010 21:52 Sfydjklm wrote:
Wait, what happened, summary please^^ BigT wants to cover idra's games in the 3rd esl qualifier, idra doesn't want bigt shoutcasting, idra is very difficult and rude when bigt tries to cast. BigT says idra is being a dick, idra becomes even more difficult and rude because of what BigT said, Beef a tourney admin apparently tells idra he has to let bigt cast, idra thinking he is larger than life rejects what the admin says and is verbally combative with beef. Power struggle ensues.... eventually idra realizes he can not defy the admin, bigt casts. At the start of every game idra says some other shoutcaster is way better than BigT. Later on ESL realizes the brackets messed up and idra must replay a corrected match, idra unhappy with the situation can not control his temper and gets verbally combative again.... ESL decides to disqualify/ban him for previous behavior in other qualifiers building up to this qualifer. (Basically they felt they had put up with his insults and attitude for long enough and it was time to take action) Drama ensues on TL and irc. ESL feeling the backlash lacks the courage of their convictions and reverses the ban. This is ridiculous. The casters and tournaments should help the player play the matches in the best possible conditions. You claim Idra is "larger than life and verbally combative" when everything you have done leading up to that is ridiculous. It's not Idra's fault you fucked up the bracket. It is not Idra's fault you guys use a horrible cheating caster who thinks he is ABOVE the players, and will do anything for a bit of publicity. Did you ever once listen to BigT cast? If you think Idra should be punished for 1 season because of disrespect you should ban BigT for life for the same thing. Just because you run a tournament doesn't give you godmode over everything. You have just lost one more viewer.
I think you've misunderstood... I am not a part of ESL, I was just giving a run down for the guy that wanted to know what happened.
On August 16 2010 22:27 kheldorin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2010 22:22 robertdinh wrote:
Ah but here is where you are misinformed, he personally insults players and admins on a frequent basis in these esl qualifier tourneys. He doesn't follow the rules, because i am pretty sure that the rules don't allow you to just flame everyone you encounter in a tourney. Then they have to specify the incident where the rule was broken instead of a vague "He is rude so I shall ban him". A referee cannot punish a player just because he is known as a dirty player. The playerhas to commit the foul first and the referee needs to punish him for the foul at that particular time. The referee cannot just retroactively punish him as and when it is convenient for the referee. In this case, the timing of the ban is just too suspicious and people are rightfully suspecting that the ban was to cover the screw up in the organization of the matches.
Well they did mention that telling admins to f-off isn't a good way to go about things. That would be 1 example.
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On August 16 2010 22:31 Obvious wrote:
I feel the BM stuff is a completely useless arguement. It is impossible to apply the same set of rules to Esports as you can apply to more social-teambased sports. We are all probably long time internet-users, do you seriously still get offended if people call you anything? If you beat someone, and they do call you something, you should take it as a compliment, as it means you frustrated them to no end, and they saw no other way then to drop their rage upon you. I think a different set of rules should be sought, and applied. There is no reason to be pretentious on the Esports scene, everyone knows how it is to lose, and how gamers and internet users are, and as long as its just words, what is the problem.
there is a big diffrence. idra is suppose to be a PROFESSIONAL player and he should conduct himself in a professional manner. not insult ppl just because he looses a game (or wins a game in alot of cases). you dont see idras kind of shit being pulled over in korea now do u.
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On August 16 2010 22:43 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2010 22:31 Obvious wrote:
I feel the BM stuff is a completely useless arguement. It is impossible to apply the same set of rules to Esports as you can apply to more social-teambased sports. We are all probably long time internet-users, do you seriously still get offended if people call you anything? If you beat someone, and they do call you something, you should take it as a compliment, as it means you frustrated them to no end, and they saw no other way then to drop their rage upon you. I think a different set of rules should be sought, and applied. There is no reason to be pretentious on the Esports scene, everyone knows how it is to lose, and how gamers and internet users are, and as long as its just words, what is the problem. there is a big diffrence. idra is suppose to be a PROFESSIONAL player and he should conduct himself in a professional manner. not insult ppl just because he looses a game (or wins a game in alot of cases). you dont see idras kind of shit being pulled over in korea now do u.
Nope you don't, the leagues in korea would not stand for that type of behavior.
If EU and US want esports to be taken seriously the players need to grow up and act like professionals.
Right now the sponsors don't even really take it seriously, they just use players and teams for advertising.
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On August 16 2010 22:42 robertdinh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2010 22:37 setzer wrote:On August 16 2010 21:59 robertdinh wrote:On August 16 2010 21:52 Sfydjklm wrote:
Wait, what happened, summary please^^ BigT wants to cover idra's games in the 3rd esl qualifier, idra doesn't want bigt shoutcasting, idra is very difficult and rude when bigt tries to cast. BigT says idra is being a dick, idra becomes even more difficult and rude because of what BigT said, Beef a tourney admin apparently tells idra he has to let bigt cast, idra thinking he is larger than life rejects what the admin says and is verbally combative with beef. Power struggle ensues.... eventually idra realizes he can not defy the admin, bigt casts. At the start of every game idra says some other shoutcaster is way better than BigT. Later on ESL realizes the brackets messed up and idra must replay a corrected match, idra unhappy with the situation can not control his temper and gets verbally combative again.... ESL decides to disqualify/ban him for previous behavior in other qualifiers building up to this qualifer. (Basically they felt they had put up with his insults and attitude for long enough and it was time to take action) Drama ensues on TL and irc. ESL feeling the backlash lacks the courage of their convictions and reverses the ban. This is ridiculous. The casters and tournaments should help the player play the matches in the best possible conditions. You claim Idra is "larger than life and verbally combative" when everything you have done leading up to that is ridiculous. It's not Idra's fault you fucked up the bracket. It is not Idra's fault you guys use a horrible cheating caster who thinks he is ABOVE the players, and will do anything for a bit of publicity. Did you ever once listen to BigT cast? If you think Idra should be punished for 1 season because of disrespect you should ban BigT for life for the same thing. Just because you run a tournament doesn't give you godmode over everything. You have just lost one more viewer. I think you've misunderstood... I am not a part of ESL, I was just giving a run down for the guy that wanted to know what happened.
My mistake. Either way, whoever came to this decision makes this tournament a lot less interesting when you get rid of the absolute best American (and foreigner, period). Everything to do with American starcraft has been dominated by Idra for the last year and a half. I can guarantee they will lose viewers because of this.
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EPT
