On August 16 2010 14:43 Artosis wrote: IdrA is a Professional Gamer on the Professional Gaming Team CJ Entus in Seoul, South Korea. He has a designated time to eat every single day of his life. If he misses this meal, he will not be able to eat.
IdrA agreed to play this match, despite it not in any way being his fault, but only after he ate.
He is now banned? Completely unjust and uncalled for.
"He's being punished for everything else during this cup and the past 2 IEM Qualifiers. He's had his fair share of warnings and instead he continues to BM against players, casters, and admins. Protip: Telling an admin to f-off ingame doesn't go unpunished."
Tell me what he's being punished for. This is an unprofessional post. You don't just ban someone because you are angry at them. You banned him for an unjust reason, and now you are trying to cover that up by saying you banned him for other reasons.
This is the most professional and logical post throughout the thread that I have read so far. I'm quoting it to provide people who just popped in here a good opinion on the situation, although biased, admittedly. I agree with Artosis on this.
Uh all I got from that post is artosis asking to be told what idra is being punished for, after he quoted them saying he is being punished for all his BM and gave an example of him telling an admin to f-off.
There's more to this than just that one post. A lot more.
On August 16 2010 14:43 Artosis wrote: IdrA is a Professional Gamer on the Professional Gaming Team CJ Entus in Seoul, South Korea. He has a designated time to eat every single day of his life. If he misses this meal, he will not be able to eat.
IdrA agreed to play this match, despite it not in any way being his fault, but only after he ate.
He is now banned? Completely unjust and uncalled for.
"He's being punished for everything else during this cup and the past 2 IEM Qualifiers. He's had his fair share of warnings and instead he continues to BM against players, casters, and admins. Protip: Telling an admin to f-off ingame doesn't go unpunished."
Tell me what he's being punished for. This is an unprofessional post. You don't just ban someone because you are angry at them. You banned him for an unjust reason, and now you are trying to cover that up by saying you banned him for other reasons.
This is the most professional and logical post throughout the thread that I have read so far. I'm quoting it to provide people who just popped in here a good opinion on the situation, although biased, admittedly. I agree with Artosis on this.
Uh all I got from that post is artosis asking to be told what idra is being punished for, after he quoted them saying he is being punished for all his BM and gave an example of him telling an admin to f-off.
There's more to this than just that one post. A lot more.
Well the context of that post specifically had artosis asking why idra was punished, after quoting them already stating why he was punished, which doesn't make sense unless he is too biased to see that as a proper reason. (Apparently you shouldn't be accountable for your behavior)
And then the poster quoting artosis saying it is a logical post.
On August 16 2010 14:43 Artosis wrote: IdrA is a Professional Gamer on the Professional Gaming Team CJ Entus in Seoul, South Korea. He has a designated time to eat every single day of his life. If he misses this meal, he will not be able to eat.
IdrA agreed to play this match, despite it not in any way being his fault, but only after he ate.
He is now banned? Completely unjust and uncalled for.
"He's being punished for everything else during this cup and the past 2 IEM Qualifiers. He's had his fair share of warnings and instead he continues to BM against players, casters, and admins. Protip: Telling an admin to f-off ingame doesn't go unpunished."
Tell me what he's being punished for. This is an unprofessional post. You don't just ban someone because you are angry at them. You banned him for an unjust reason, and now you are trying to cover that up by saying you banned him for other reasons.
This is the most professional and logical post throughout the thread that I have read so far. I'm quoting it to provide people who just popped in here a good opinion on the situation, although biased, admittedly. I agree with Artosis on this.
Uh all I got from that post is artosis asking to be told what idra is being punished for, after he quoted them saying he is being punished for all his BM and gave an example of him telling an admin to f-off.
He was being punished for BM which was observed earlier by esl and not punished. Yet they used it as an excuse to justify a ban. That is the problem. His conduct was not penalized earlier with penalty points yet they then decided to go back in time and use that as an excuse for banning. If they were truly being impaired by his BM and he deserved punishment, they would have penalized him earlier. Because they did not, it just showed that it was an excuse for a hasty banning.
On August 16 2010 19:45 ondik wrote: Pretty bad decission to let Idra back again just because he's one of the best players and has big fanbase supporting him. I respect him as a player but he should learn a lesson, fact that people got used to his rude behaviour doesn't mean it's right and sholdn't be punished.
"IdrA is a Professional Gamer on the Professional Gaming Team CJ Entus in Seoul, South Korea."
how ironic is that? he's the only foreign "professional" yet he acts the least professionally of all.
Agreed, it is for this reason that sc2 will fade away over time, people don't take games seriously when the pros are whiny little brats.
A bit like when Jon McEnroe ruined Wimbledon forever.
That argument is so pathetic I don't know where to start. Re-adjust your panties, realise you are in fact watching SC2 even if it is just to see Idra lose and that heroes and villians are part of the reason we watch sports.
On August 16 2010 19:45 ondik wrote: Pretty bad decission to let Idra back again just because he's one of the best players and has big fanbase supporting him. I respect him as a player but he should learn a lesson, fact that people got used to his rude behaviour doesn't mean it's right and sholdn't be punished.
"IdrA is a Professional Gamer on the Professional Gaming Team CJ Entus in Seoul, South Korea."
how ironic is that? he's the only foreign "professional" yet he acts the least professionally of all.
Agreed, it is for this reason that sc2 will fade away over time, people don't take games seriously when the pros are whiny little brats.
A bit like when Jon McEnroe ruined Wimbledon forever.
That argument is so pathetic I don't know where to start. Re-adjust your panties, realise you are in fact watching SC2 even if it is just to see Idra lose and that heroes and villians are part of the reason we watch sports.
Are you really trying to compare tennis with the unstable esport market of america and europe?
Tennis is a solidified sport with a stable professional scene. Esports in america and europe are based off of hyped up big name titles that come and go.
If you want to solidify esports it can not have a negative connotation to it, and it can not be unprofessional.
On August 16 2010 19:45 ondik wrote: Pretty bad decission to let Idra back again just because he's one of the best players and has big fanbase supporting him. I respect him as a player but he should learn a lesson, fact that people got used to his rude behaviour doesn't mean it's right and sholdn't be punished.
"IdrA is a Professional Gamer on the Professional Gaming Team CJ Entus in Seoul, South Korea."
how ironic is that? he's the only foreign "professional" yet he acts the least professionally of all.
Agreed, it is for this reason that sc2 will fade away over time, people don't take games seriously when the pros are whiny little brats.
A bit like when Jon McEnroe ruined Wimbledon forever.
That argument is so pathetic I don't know where to start. Re-adjust your panties, realise you are in fact watching SC2 even if it is just to see Idra lose and that heroes and villians are part of the reason we watch sports.
Are you really trying to compare tennis with the unstable esport market of america and europe?
look at hd's youtube channel which has more hits, me scolding a newbie for cheesing or me vs whitera in the finals of the first big sc2 tournament?
people are stupid, theyd rather watch drama than esports. sponsors go where the hits are.
On August 16 2010 19:45 ondik wrote: Pretty bad decission to let Idra back again just because he's one of the best players and has big fanbase supporting him. I respect him as a player but he should learn a lesson, fact that people got used to his rude behaviour doesn't mean it's right and sholdn't be punished.
"IdrA is a Professional Gamer on the Professional Gaming Team CJ Entus in Seoul, South Korea."
how ironic is that? he's the only foreign "professional" yet he acts the least professionally of all.
Agreed, it is for this reason that sc2 will fade away over time, people don't take games seriously when the pros are whiny little brats.
A bit like when Jon McEnroe ruined Wimbledon forever.
That argument is so pathetic I don't know where to start. Re-adjust your panties, realise you are in fact watching SC2 even if it is just to see Idra lose and that heroes and villians are part of the reason we watch sports.
Are you really trying to compare tennis with the unstable esport market of america and europe?
look at hd's youtube channel which has more hits, me scolding a newbie for cheesing or me vs whitera in the finals of the first big sc2 tournament?
people are stupid, theyd rather watch drama than esports. sponsors go where the hits are.
Yes the 4chan mentality might drift towards drama and gobble it up, but are we trying to have another fluff game that lasts a year or two here, or are we actually trying for longevity and professionalism?
On August 16 2010 18:45 JPSke wrote: Simple lessons to be learned from all this:
1. Don't be a prick, or your reputation will precede you. 2. Organize in advance, because if you leave anything unsettled it will bite you in the ass. In the future tourney admins need to have the casting, the timing, and the rules clearly stated and ensure that their players are aware of them. 3. BigT needs to understand that his "jokes" infer a level of familiarity that most people he's conversing with don't have with him. This is especially true when you're operating in a text format, where something can be taken many different ways. He also needs to learn to keep some discussions private(especially with players and tournament organizers) rather than streaming what are ostensibly private conversations to his stream, often without the other party's knowledge. While I enjoyed seeing how haphazardly things are done today, you would be better served in the future by simply updating your status to the stream every so often and letting all the legwork of finding matches to cast go on behind the scenes. With that said your efforts are appreciated and your passion is great to see.
Seriously on the third one. You need to get a 2nd monitor/computer so not all the shit you do will be on the stream. When you were searching for player's name/character code to add to your friends' list, anyone could of easily copied it down, added them to their friend's list and spam the crap out of them.
And I thought the gosugamers incident was immature. It was pretty much:
Huk: we're lagging, obs please out bigT waits for the other obs to get out because he's streaming GosuGamer streamers: we're the official streamers, bigT please leave. BigT: I don't recognize them. Huk: leave now or i'll remake and only invite BigT to cast the game. < no one leaves, so Huk remakes and only invites bigT>
I can see why the guys at GG were pissed. They're setting up the whole event and can't even cast the games they want because the other caster "doesn't recognize" them. I think the most annoying part was that BigT didn't even try to talk to the GG streamers to see if they are the official streamers. He just said "Oh I don't recognize them" several times in the stream and that's his excuse. I know that morrow, huk and bigT seems to be good friends, but wouldn't it be the logical and polite (and smart) thing to not screw over the people who actually put in a ton of effort into running the tournament?
On August 16 2010 19:45 ondik wrote: Pretty bad decission to let Idra back again just because he's one of the best players and has big fanbase supporting him. I respect him as a player but he should learn a lesson, fact that people got used to his rude behaviour doesn't mean it's right and sholdn't be punished.
"IdrA is a Professional Gamer on the Professional Gaming Team CJ Entus in Seoul, South Korea."
how ironic is that? he's the only foreign "professional" yet he acts the least professionally of all.
Agreed, it is for this reason that sc2 will fade away over time, people don't take games seriously when the pros are whiny little brats.
A bit like when Jon McEnroe ruined Wimbledon forever.
That argument is so pathetic I don't know where to start. Re-adjust your panties, realise you are in fact watching SC2 even if it is just to see Idra lose and that heroes and villians are part of the reason we watch sports.
Are you really trying to compare tennis with the unstable esport market of america and europe?
look at hd's youtube channel which has more hits, me scolding a newbie for cheesing or me vs whitera in the finals of the first big sc2 tournament?
people are stupid, theyd rather watch drama than esports. sponsors go where the hits are.
Yes the 4chan mentality might drift towards drama and gobble it up, but are we trying to have another fluff game that lasts a year or two here, or are we actually trying for longevity and professionalism?
It's not just 4chan. Check any major gaming community and look up a Starcraft 2 thread. The name IdrA gets mentioned which results in ten different folks linking Idra v Silver, Idra v Masq, Idra loses to a six pool etc. and talking about his rage. I can't remember the last time I saw Idra v WhiteRa linked anywhere, Idra v Tester isn't even talked about much.
On August 16 2010 19:45 ondik wrote: Pretty bad decission to let Idra back again just because he's one of the best players and has big fanbase supporting him. I respect him as a player but he should learn a lesson, fact that people got used to his rude behaviour doesn't mean it's right and sholdn't be punished.
"IdrA is a Professional Gamer on the Professional Gaming Team CJ Entus in Seoul, South Korea."
how ironic is that? he's the only foreign "professional" yet he acts the least professionally of all.
Agreed, it is for this reason that sc2 will fade away over time, people don't take games seriously when the pros are whiny little brats.
A bit like when Jon McEnroe ruined Wimbledon forever.
That argument is so pathetic I don't know where to start. Re-adjust your panties, realise you are in fact watching SC2 even if it is just to see Idra lose and that heroes and villians are part of the reason we watch sports.
Are you really trying to compare tennis with the unstable esport market of america and europe?
look at hd's youtube channel which has more hits, me scolding a newbie for cheesing or me vs whitera in the finals of the first big sc2 tournament?
people are stupid, theyd rather watch drama than esports. sponsors go where the hits are.
Yes the 4chan mentality might drift towards drama and gobble it up, but are we trying to have another fluff game that lasts a year or two here, or are we actually trying for longevity and professionalism?
It's not just 4chan. Check any major gaming community and look up a Starcraft 2 thread. The name IdrA gets mentioned which results in ten different folks linking Idra v Silver, Idra v Masq, Idra loses to a six pool etc. and talking about his rage. I can't remember the last time I saw Idra v WhiteRa linked anywhere, Idra v Tester isn't even talked about much.
I wasn't saying it is just 4chan, I was saying it was the mentality.
I don't want to get into an argument with Idra fanboys or talk about this situation with him and the ESL.
The one thing i still don't understand about this, is why so many people like this kid. Hes one of the most arrogant, disrepectful and whiniest person ive every seen. Out of all the comments to come out of last night. The one that stood out the most for me was something on the lines of " Im there biggest draw". Which bascially means he thinks he can do whatever he likes for this reason. Whether this is true or not, this type of comment only backs up the comments made about him. I watch SC streams like many other people, to watch some good SC. Regardless of whether big headed Idra is playing or any other person in fact.
Also one common theme ive seen from watching a lot of SC tournaments recently is that organisation isn't there greatest strength and definetly needs to be improved. But most of the gamers who take part in them of course don't seem to be happy about it, but just get on with them. Idra however being the Mighty Idra he is, can't seem to do so.
If the kid put as much effort into his whining than he did into SC play he'd be as famous and as good as he thinks he actually is. If Idra just grew up, played the game and showed us how well he can play. While keeping his mouth shut. Id have no complaints and wouldn't be posting this right now, but this is without a doubt not going to happen and people like him need to learn some respect and act there age.
Pezo, always good to start your first sentence of your first post, to label anyone who might disagree with you as a 'fanboy'. Ad-hominem is a very good skill to have.
I'm sure everyone has an opinion on this, about the people involved or the circumstances. But I'm curious as to the structure behind the ESL. How is the administration structured, and what oversight is there and review processes?
Looking at this idra/big-t/esl situation, the biggest, most fundamental factor at play is a lack of organisational structure and poor communication.
Regardless of what the fall out is from this controversy, I wonder what steps are being taken to ensure a repeat doesn't occur? Otherwise nothing will be gained from this (admittedly amusing) shitstorm.
As for Big-T, if those irc logs are legit. Nothing more really needs to be said here...
On August 16 2010 19:45 ondik wrote: Pretty bad decission to let Idra back again just because he's one of the best players and has big fanbase supporting him. I respect him as a player but he should learn a lesson, fact that people got used to his rude behaviour doesn't mean it's right and sholdn't be punished.
"IdrA is a Professional Gamer on the Professional Gaming Team CJ Entus in Seoul, South Korea."
how ironic is that? he's the only foreign "professional" yet he acts the least professionally of all.
Agreed, it is for this reason that sc2 will fade away over time, people don't take games seriously when the pros are whiny little brats.
You're right, just like the bm in SC:BW made it fade away. Who has even heard of Brood War today?
Hah, can't believe that didn't come to mind. I also find it kind of amusing that 99% of the people defending the ESL side have less than 100 posts.
On August 16 2010 18:45 JPSke wrote: Simple lessons to be learned from all this:
1. Don't be a prick, or your reputation will precede you. 2. Organize in advance, because if you leave anything unsettled it will bite you in the ass. In the future tourney admins need to have the casting, the timing, and the rules clearly stated and ensure that their players are aware of them. 3. BigT needs to understand that his "jokes" infer a level of familiarity that most people he's conversing with don't have with him. This is especially true when you're operating in a text format, where something can be taken many different ways. He also needs to learn to keep some discussions private(especially with players and tournament organizers) rather than streaming what are ostensibly private conversations to his stream, often without the other party's knowledge. While I enjoyed seeing how haphazardly things are done today, you would be better served in the future by simply updating your status to the stream every so often and letting all the legwork of finding matches to cast go on behind the scenes. With that said your efforts are appreciated and your passion is great to see.
Seriously on the third one. You need to get a 2nd monitor/computer so not all the shit you do will be on the stream. When you were searching for player's name/character code to add to your friends' list, anyone could of easily copied it down, added them to their friend's list and spam the crap out of them.
And I thought the gosugamers incident was immature. It was pretty much:
Huk: we're lagging, obs please out bigT waits for the other obs to get out because he's streaming GosuGamer streamers: we're the official streamers, bigT please leave. BigT: I don't recognize them. Huk: leave now or i'll remake and only invite BigT to cast the game. < no one leaves, so Huk remakes and only invites bigT>
I can see why the guys at GG were pissed. They're setting up the whole event and can't even cast the games they want because the other caster "doesn't recognize" them. I think the most annoying part was that BigT didn't even try to talk to the GG streamers to see if they are the official streamers. He just said "Oh I don't recognize them" several times in the stream and that's his excuse. I know that morrow, huk and bigT seems to be good friends, but wouldn't it be the logical and polite (and smart) thing to not screw over the people who actually put in a ton of effort into running the tournament?
you gotta realize that since the game release there has been major issues with lag/delay, so players want to limit observers as much as possible so in any given game the first people out should be:
1. randoms 2. people known (team managers / mates / friends / w/e) 3. streamers (except 1) 4. last streamer
and if the player chooses to let all these people in to begin with. Either way if it comes down to it and a player chooses he should be aloud to ask everyone except his opponent out of the game if there are issues, there are replays; cast them. There is no way to justify the quality of the game just so viewers can watch the games "live".
You have to understand from a players perspective that me personally on any given tournament day(s) I will get messaged by literally 20 different people asking to cast the game claiming to be this or that, representing this or that site, having w/e amount of viewers etc. (not even including random people who just want to observe which would probably mean like 40+ people) As much as I would like to accommodate everyone it is a HUGE hassle day after day after day as a player trying to just play, then have to add all these casters, invite them, wait for all them, one disconnects then wants remake; so on and so on.
TO's should have 1-2 official streamers who are posted as such clearly so everyone knows who they are and they should have priority over all other streamers. Even then, if the player wishes it so they should have the god given right to have them leave if they are having issues with lag or delay.
I am friendly with bigt but he like many other streamers claim to be something their not (offical gg.net streamer) almost every single tournament these days are some issues with streamers, rules, admins, brackets, w/e.
EPT
