[ 12:28:45 ] [ BigT ] i have [ 12:28:51 ] [ BigT ] official news as to the banning of idra! [ 12:29:16 ] [ BigT ] he received 2 points for not allowing me to cast and the other 2 points for the BM afterwards... all of which were handed down directly from me :D
Another caster who thinks he's more important than the players.
know whats sad ??? yesterday in the Gosu Cup.. GosuGamers was trying to stream a HuK game and BigT was in the game too.. HuK said the game was lagging and BigT was like ye who the hell are this GoseGamers streamers this cup is mine and bang they remade the game and didnt let GosuGamers stream the game.. and BigT was all happy...
so i dont know why he got so mad for a player not letting him stream a game cause of lag cause he just did the same with other player and liked it..
On August 16 2010 18:22 Zumms wrote: BigT's casting isn't bad at all. And when you say his casting is bad are you just trying to insult the guy or do you actually have someone to compare him to to show that he is actually a bad caster?
And btw, how was anyone supposed to know idra wasn't inviting the casters because of the "lag". He never actually told BigT. Idra getting banned is just result in lack of communication between the players and the admins.
While I havent heard BigT's casting, you do realize that there are a LOT of casters out there to compare him to, right?
Also, I am pretty sure BigT and Idra had a conversation about inviting him.
You have no idea what you are talking about first of all, BigT is the caster, BigT and Idra would not have a conversation about inviting "him". (I assume this is a typo) Yeah, I do realize there are alot of casters, you misread what I said. I asked if the people who are saying he is bad have someone that they like more to actually know if BigT is a bad caster. And from my point of view, he's just as good as everyone else. People are just insulting his casting because they are mad the Idra got banned, which wasn't at all BigT's fault nor did he ever suggest it.
BigT was just wondering if he was going to cast Idra's game or not, and if Idra said no he was going to move on. But there was a problem, Beef (the admin) was trying to force Idra to let BigT cast. And BigT wasn't complaining to beef saying "omg let me cast idra dude wtf" or anything like that.
I am confused. BigT and Idra clearly had a conversation since Idra had at some point told him (BigT) that he lags and doesnt want him to cast his games.
Also, it is apparently BigT's fault for Idra getting banned, considering he said: "[ 12:29:16 ] [ BigT ] he received 2 points for not allowing me to cast and the other 2 points for the BM afterwards... all of which were handed down directly from me :D"
Even if it wasnt serious, he is at least partially responsible considering Idra got a 2 point penalty for not letting him cast. It is BigT's responsibility to inform the admins of the situation (that is to say, "I lag and can not cast Idra's game), not just say "am I casting or not?"
Honestly, did you join TL just to play devils advocate on the situation or something? The point you try to make about people possibly not knowing other casters to compare to BigT reeks of something that is not normal. Maybe you are BigT yourself?
Yeah, I'm totally BigT. BigT doesn't lag in the games, that wasn't the problem. Idra was apparently having lag issues, and so was Haypro. When I played in the Gosucup I experienced some myself. (but that's probably because my dad was watching some football stream). Since Idra was having lag issues he didn't want to make it worse by inviting spectators...so I guess that is what he was on about. Did you actually watch BigT's live stream and look at the conversations he had or are you just knowing about this from a forum post? It seems like that's where you're coming from, the forum post.
On August 16 2010 18:22 Zumms wrote: BigT's casting isn't bad at all. And when you say his casting is bad are you just trying to insult the guy or do you actually have someone to compare him to to show that he is actually a bad caster?
And btw, how was anyone supposed to know idra wasn't inviting the casters because of the "lag". He never actually told BigT. Idra getting banned is just result in lack of communication between the players and the admins.
While I havent heard BigT's casting, you do realize that there are a LOT of casters out there to compare him to, right?
Also, I am pretty sure BigT and Idra had a conversation about inviting him.
You have no idea what you are talking about first of all, BigT is the caster, BigT and Idra would not have a conversation about inviting "him". (I assume this is a typo) Yeah, I do realize there are alot of casters, you misread what I said. I asked if the people who are saying he is bad have someone that they like more to actually know if BigT is a bad caster. And from my point of view, he's just as good as everyone else. People are just insulting his casting because they are mad the Idra got banned, which wasn't at all BigT's fault nor did he ever suggest it.
BigT was just wondering if he was going to cast Idra's game or not, and if Idra said no he was going to move on. But there was a problem, Beef (the admin) was trying to force Idra to let BigT cast. And BigT wasn't complaining to beef saying "omg let me cast idra dude wtf" or anything like that.
I am confused. BigT and Idra clearly had a conversation since Idra had at some point told him (BigT) that he lags and doesnt want him to cast his games.
Also, it is apparently BigT's fault for Idra getting banned, considering he said: "[ 12:29:16 ] [ BigT ] he received 2 points for not allowing me to cast and the other 2 points for the BM afterwards... all of which were handed down directly from me :D"
Even if it wasnt serious, he is at least partially responsible considering Idra got a 2 point penalty for not letting him cast. It is BigT's responsibility to inform the admins of the situation (that is to say, "I lag and can not cast Idra's game), not just say "am I casting or not?"
Honestly, did you join TL just to play devils advocate on the situation or something? The point you try to make about people possibly not knowing other casters to compare to BigT reeks of something that is not normal. Maybe you are BigT yourself?
Yeah, I'm totally BigT. BigT doesn't lag in the games, that wasn't the problem. Idra was apparently having lag issues, and so was Haypro. When I played in the Gosucup I experienced some myself. (but that's probably because my dad was watching some football stream). Since Idra was having lag issues he didn't want to make it worse by inviting spectators...so I guess that is what he was on about. Did you actually watch BigT's live stream and look at the conversations he had or are you just knowing about this from a forum post? It seems like that's where you're coming from, the forum post.
Do you know that BigT wasnt lagging in the games? The internet isnt exactly stable, so it is very possible he was. Even if he wasnt, if a player says you do then you should be well mannered and just say "OK then, I guess I wont be casting this game".
And no, I didnt watch the stream because I was at work at the time. All I know is what has been posted in this thread, and I havent read anything about what you are saying until now.
PS: If your internet isnt good enough to watch a stream and play then you should understand that casting a stream is even more difficult.
On August 16 2010 17:59 Kishkumen wrote: I watched some of the games from last Sunday, but I couldn't watch any of the games this Sunday because I'm on vacation. I wasn't very impressed with the casting last Sunday, so it's no surprise that it seems to have been terrible today as well. The unprofessionalism in the cast really annoyed me, especially the IdrA bashing. Regardless of whether you like IdrA or not, you should leave your personal opinions at the door while casting a major tournament.
Of course, after this whole debacle, I can definitely say I won't be watching any more ESL events. The unprofessionalism throughout the whole thing just seems to have spoiled any possibility of it being a tournament I'd enjoy watching. I was mostly watching it for IdrA, but now that he was screwed over by the admins, I have really no more reason to watch it.
Day[9] said that IdrA was very well mannered during the KotB tournament. I would suspect that if you treat him with respect that you'll run into a lot less bm. I'd be frustrated too if I were in a tournament being run this unprofessionally. This tournament is a disgrace, plain and simple.
That's not how it works man... first and foremost when you are playing in some sorta league you gotta respect the admins. Everyone knows idra is pretty arrogant, so the level of respect he demands for himself is ridiculous, especially with how he behaves.
He needs to understand that admins > him, not him > admins.
His BM came AFTER he was banned, not before. It was completely justified. Seriously, I think reading all the comments before posting should be a requirement now. Everyone seems to just read one post then decide to comment, when the past 10 pages explain what actually happened.
I was online watching the stream while all of this happened. Idra was BM the entire time, he was blatantly ignoring beef when beef said to let bigt cast. If a tourney admin tells you to do something you shut up and you do it, you don't sit there flexing your e-peen trying to act like you are more relevant than they are.
To the people who are supportive of idra, you don't understand, maybe esl handled the situation poorly with their timings and such, but the reality of it is that idra did deserve to be DQ'd. His behavior was so far beyond tolerable that if I was running a tourney his ass woulda been booted after an initial warning.
The flaw here is ESL letting idra play out his matches and then trying to take action. Not that their ban was unwarranted, because it was warranted very clearly based on idra's behavior towards admins.
It's a paradox because you claim the admins need to operate on a level of professionalism to earn idra's respect and for him to respond with decent behavior, but if they were acting on a level of professionalism he would have been banned for his attitude and disruption from the get go.
If you want to run a professional tourney you follow the rules completely, you don't give into community or player QQ, you don't worry about public image, you worry about running a legitimate tournament that doesn't have skewed results for any reason.
so after reading this thread it seems some people think the players should have no power and its admins>casters>players essentially. Cool stuff guys. If by being in the game you're lagging it and compromising the game you get the hell out. You dont dictate a damn thing and it should be a PRIVILEGE to cast a game at this level of play. But I guess common sense and respect for the integrity of the game just doesn't matter.
On August 16 2010 18:22 Zumms wrote: BigT's casting isn't bad at all. And when you say his casting is bad are you just trying to insult the guy or do you actually have someone to compare him to to show that he is actually a bad caster?
And btw, how was anyone supposed to know idra wasn't inviting the casters because of the "lag". He never actually told BigT. Idra getting banned is just result in lack of communication between the players and the admins.
While I havent heard BigT's casting, you do realize that there are a LOT of casters out there to compare him to, right?
Also, I am pretty sure BigT and Idra had a conversation about inviting him.
You have no idea what you are talking about first of all, BigT is the caster, BigT and Idra would not have a conversation about inviting "him". (I assume this is a typo) Yeah, I do realize there are alot of casters, you misread what I said. I asked if the people who are saying he is bad have someone that they like more to actually know if BigT is a bad caster. And from my point of view, he's just as good as everyone else. People are just insulting his casting because they are mad the Idra got banned, which wasn't at all BigT's fault nor did he ever suggest it.
BigT was just wondering if he was going to cast Idra's game or not, and if Idra said no he was going to move on. But there was a problem, Beef (the admin) was trying to force Idra to let BigT cast. And BigT wasn't complaining to beef saying "omg let me cast idra dude wtf" or anything like that.
I am confused. BigT and Idra clearly had a conversation since Idra had at some point told him (BigT) that he lags and doesnt want him to cast his games.
Also, it is apparently BigT's fault for Idra getting banned, considering he said: "[ 12:29:16 ] [ BigT ] he received 2 points for not allowing me to cast and the other 2 points for the BM afterwards... all of which were handed down directly from me :D"
Even if it wasnt serious, he is at least partially responsible considering Idra got a 2 point penalty for not letting him cast. It is BigT's responsibility to inform the admins of the situation (that is to say, "I lag and can not cast Idra's game), not just say "am I casting or not?"
Honestly, did you join TL just to play devils advocate on the situation or something? The point you try to make about people possibly not knowing other casters to compare to BigT reeks of something that is not normal. Maybe you are BigT yourself?
Yeah, I'm totally BigT. BigT doesn't lag in the games, that wasn't the problem. Idra was apparently having lag issues, and so was Haypro. When I played in the Gosucup I experienced some myself. (but that's probably because my dad was watching some football stream). Since Idra was having lag issues he didn't want to make it worse by inviting spectators...so I guess that is what he was on about. Did you actually watch BigT's live stream and look at the conversations he had or are you just knowing about this from a forum post? It seems like that's where you're coming from, the forum post.
Do you know that BigT wasnt lagging in the games? The internet isnt exactly stable, so it is very possible he was. Even if he wasnt, if a player says you do then you should be well mannered and just say "OK then, I guess I wont be casting this game".
And no, I didnt watch the stream because I was at work at the time. All I know is what has been posted in this thread, and I havent read anything about what you are saying until now.
PS: If your internet isnt good enough to watch a stream and play then you should understand that casting a stream is even more difficult.
Well, that is kind of what BigT said. "Ok then, I'm gonna move on if Beef confirms that I'm not casting Idra's game." But BigT did want to cast idra especially because the chat was spamming: "WE WANT IDRA!"
I've been listening to BiggerT. I really thought he was just some troll but he's a pretty nice caster. Alot more knowledge on the game than BigT.
Pretty bad decission to let Idra back again just because he's one of the best players and has big fanbase supporting him. I respect him as a player but he should learn a lesson, fact that people got used to his rude behaviour doesn't mean it's right and sholdn't be punished.
"IdrA is a Professional Gamer on the Professional Gaming Team CJ Entus in Seoul, South Korea."
how ironic is that? he's the only foreign "professional" yet he acts the least professionally of all.
On August 16 2010 19:45 ondik wrote: Pretty bad decission to let Idra back again just because he's one of the best players and has big fanbase supporting him. I respect him as a player but he should learn a lesson, fact that people got used to his rude behaviour doesn't mean it's right and sholdn't be punished.
"IdrA is a Professional Gamer on the Professional Gaming Team CJ Entus in Seoul, South Korea."
how ironic is that? he's the only foreign "professional" yet he acts the least professionally of all.
Agreed, it is for this reason that sc2 will fade away over time, people don't take games seriously when the pros are whiny little brats.
He was banned unjustly. If you've read the last 20 pages you will have a much better understanding of the situation instead of coming in after the fact saying that IdrA shouldn't be let back in.
On August 16 2010 19:45 ondik wrote: Pretty bad decission to let Idra back again just because he's one of the best players and has big fanbase supporting him. I respect him as a player but he should learn a lesson, fact that people got used to his rude behaviour doesn't mean it's right and sholdn't be punished.
"IdrA is a Professional Gamer on the Professional Gaming Team CJ Entus in Seoul, South Korea."
how ironic is that? he's the only foreign "professional" yet he acts the least professionally of all.
Agreed, it is for this reason that sc2 will fade away over time, people don't take games seriously when the pros are whiny little brats.
You're right, just like the bm in SC:BW made it fade away. Who has even heard of Brood War today?
On August 16 2010 19:49 iShA. wrote: He was banned unjustly. If you've read the last 20 pages you will have a much better understanding of the situation instead of coming in after the fact saying that IdrA shouldn't be let back in.
Should I read through the misinformation or base it on what I actually saw on stream? I saw how idra was behaving, I saw beef trying to reason with him, and I saw him completely disregard beef the admin.
On August 16 2010 19:45 ondik wrote: Pretty bad decission to let Idra back again just because he's one of the best players and has big fanbase supporting him. I respect him as a player but he should learn a lesson, fact that people got used to his rude behaviour doesn't mean it's right and sholdn't be punished.
"IdrA is a Professional Gamer on the Professional Gaming Team CJ Entus in Seoul, South Korea."
how ironic is that? he's the only foreign "professional" yet he acts the least professionally of all.
Agreed, it is for this reason that sc2 will fade away over time, people don't take games seriously when the pros are whiny little brats.
If SC2 didnt come out he was going to be pro for BW, so I guess BW will fade over time.
From what I can see now, this is purely bad administration and bad communication. Keep the BM penalty, drop the not allowing the cast penalty and things are how they should be. If he continues to BM and gets another penalty then he gets the ban he should have, however he should not be banned from this incident.
On August 16 2010 19:45 ondik wrote: Pretty bad decission to let Idra back again just because he's one of the best players and has big fanbase supporting him. I respect him as a player but he should learn a lesson, fact that people got used to his rude behaviour doesn't mean it's right and sholdn't be punished.
"IdrA is a Professional Gamer on the Professional Gaming Team CJ Entus in Seoul, South Korea."
how ironic is that? he's the only foreign "professional" yet he acts the least professionally of all.
Agreed, it is for this reason that sc2 will fade away over time, people don't take games seriously when the pros are whiny little brats.
On August 16 2010 19:45 ondik wrote: Pretty bad decission to let Idra back again just because he's one of the best players and has big fanbase supporting him. I respect him as a player but he should learn a lesson, fact that people got used to his rude behaviour doesn't mean it's right and sholdn't be punished.
"IdrA is a Professional Gamer on the Professional Gaming Team CJ Entus in Seoul, South Korea."
how ironic is that? he's the only foreign "professional" yet he acts the least professionally of all.
Agreed, it is for this reason that sc2 will fade away over time, people don't take games seriously when the pros are whiny little brats.
If SC2 didnt come out he was going to be pro for BW, so I guess BW will fade over time.
From what I can see now, this is purely bad administration and bad communication. Keep the BM penalty, drop the not allowing the cast penalty and things are how they should be. If he continues to BM and gets another penalty then he gets the ban he should have, however he should not be banned from this incident.
Except that Idra was a b-teamer nonfactor in bw.
The bw scene has been stable and highly professional for years. You can not compare fluff esports in europe and america to it on any serious level.
On August 16 2010 19:45 ondik wrote: Pretty bad decission to let Idra back again just because he's one of the best players and has big fanbase supporting him. I respect him as a player but he should learn a lesson, fact that people got used to his rude behaviour doesn't mean it's right and sholdn't be punished.
"IdrA is a Professional Gamer on the Professional Gaming Team CJ Entus in Seoul, South Korea."
how ironic is that? he's the only foreign "professional" yet he acts the least professionally of all.
Agreed, it is for this reason that sc2 will fade away over time, people don't take games seriously when the pros are whiny little brats.
On August 16 2010 19:45 ondik wrote: Pretty bad decission to let Idra back again just because he's one of the best players and has big fanbase supporting him. I respect him as a player but he should learn a lesson, fact that people got used to his rude behaviour doesn't mean it's right and sholdn't be punished.
"IdrA is a Professional Gamer on the Professional Gaming Team CJ Entus in Seoul, South Korea."
how ironic is that? he's the only foreign "professional" yet he acts the least professionally of all.
Agreed, it is for this reason that sc2 will fade away over time, people don't take games seriously when the pros are whiny little brats.
If SC2 didnt come out he was going to be pro for BW, so I guess BW will fade over time.
From what I can see now, this is purely bad administration and bad communication. Keep the BM penalty, drop the not allowing the cast penalty and things are how they should be. If he continues to BM and gets another penalty then he gets the ban he should have, however he should not be banned from this incident.
Except that Idra was a b-teamer nonfactor in bw.
The bw scene has been stable and highly professional for years. You can not compare fluff esports in europe and america to it on any serious level.
It is so obvious you have no idea what happened. A player was unjustly banned, BM or not.
On August 16 2010 19:49 iShA. wrote: He was banned unjustly. If you've read the last 20 pages you will have a much better understanding of the situation instead of coming in after the fact saying that IdrA shouldn't be let back in.
I read it. I didn't say the ban was justified or not. But the impression I got from all of it is that letting him back in was caused more by raging fans than admins realizing their mistake. Had it happened to some unknown player they wouldn't have change their minds. That's just my opinion.
On August 16 2010 19:45 ondik wrote: Pretty bad decission to let Idra back again just because he's one of the best players and has big fanbase supporting him. I respect him as a player but he should learn a lesson, fact that people got used to his rude behaviour doesn't mean it's right and sholdn't be punished.
"IdrA is a Professional Gamer on the Professional Gaming Team CJ Entus in Seoul, South Korea."
how ironic is that? he's the only foreign "professional" yet he acts the least professionally of all.
Agreed, it is for this reason that sc2 will fade away over time, people don't take games seriously when the pros are whiny little brats.
You're right, just like the bm in SC:BW made it fade away. Who has even heard of Brood War today?
Yea because we all know how the BW scene has pros blatantly disrespecting the leagues and not listening to their commands.
On August 16 2010 19:51 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On August 16 2010 19:47 robertdinh wrote:
On August 16 2010 19:45 ondik wrote: Pretty bad decission to let Idra back again just because he's one of the best players and has big fanbase supporting him. I respect him as a player but he should learn a lesson, fact that people got used to his rude behaviour doesn't mean it's right and sholdn't be punished.
"IdrA is a Professional Gamer on the Professional Gaming Team CJ Entus in Seoul, South Korea."
how ironic is that? he's the only foreign "professional" yet he acts the least professionally of all.
Agreed, it is for this reason that sc2 will fade away over time, people don't take games seriously when the pros are whiny little brats.
If SC2 didnt come out he was going to be pro for BW, so I guess BW will fade over time.
From what I can see now, this is purely bad administration and bad communication. Keep the BM penalty, drop the not allowing the cast penalty and things are how they should be. If he continues to BM and gets another penalty then he gets the ban he should have, however he should not be banned from this incident.
Except that Idra was a b-teamer nonfactor in bw.
The bw scene has been stable and highly professional for years. You can not compare fluff esports in europe and america to it on any serious level.
It is so obvious you have no idea what happened. A player was unjustly banned, BM or not.
I watched live as the whole thing unraveled. The ban was just, the execution of the ban was unprofessional though, they should have done it swiftly, not after he played out a few more rounds and qualified.
Don't accuse me of having no idea of what happened when you are the one that has no idea. If you had seen what actually went down you would understand that he clearly deserved a ban for ongoing disruptive and rebellious behavior towards tourney admin.
You should get your facts straight before developing an opinion on the situation. I guarantee you that if it had been day9 getting the run around and a TL tourney admin getting disrespected all the fanbois would be on their side.
On August 16 2010 14:43 Artosis wrote: IdrA is a Professional Gamer on the Professional Gaming Team CJ Entus in Seoul, South Korea. He has a designated time to eat every single day of his life. If he misses this meal, he will not be able to eat.
IdrA agreed to play this match, despite it not in any way being his fault, but only after he ate.
He is now banned? Completely unjust and uncalled for.
"He's being punished for everything else during this cup and the past 2 IEM Qualifiers. He's had his fair share of warnings and instead he continues to BM against players, casters, and admins. Protip: Telling an admin to f-off ingame doesn't go unpunished."
Tell me what he's being punished for. This is an unprofessional post. You don't just ban someone because you are angry at them. You banned him for an unjust reason, and now you are trying to cover that up by saying you banned him for other reasons.
This is the most professional and logical post throughout the thread that I have read so far. I'm quoting it to provide people who just popped in here a good opinion on the situation, although biased, admittedly. I agree with Artosis on this.
Meh, the proper (lag-free) environment for players should always be a priority. If an admin or especially a caster does not cooperate to help ensure that, or in fact does exactly the opposite by demanding their "right" to cast, they are incompetent self-important assholes.
On August 16 2010 14:43 Artosis wrote: IdrA is a Professional Gamer on the Professional Gaming Team CJ Entus in Seoul, South Korea. He has a designated time to eat every single day of his life. If he misses this meal, he will not be able to eat.
IdrA agreed to play this match, despite it not in any way being his fault, but only after he ate.
He is now banned? Completely unjust and uncalled for.
"He's being punished for everything else during this cup and the past 2 IEM Qualifiers. He's had his fair share of warnings and instead he continues to BM against players, casters, and admins. Protip: Telling an admin to f-off ingame doesn't go unpunished."
Tell me what he's being punished for. This is an unprofessional post. You don't just ban someone because you are angry at them. You banned him for an unjust reason, and now you are trying to cover that up by saying you banned him for other reasons.
This is the most professional and logical post throughout the thread that I have read so far. I'm quoting it to provide people who just popped in here a good opinion on the situation, although biased, admittedly. I agree with Artosis on this.
Uh all I got from that post is artosis asking to be told what idra is being punished for, after he quoted them saying he is being punished for all his BM and gave an example of him telling an admin to f-off.
EPT
