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On July 19 2010 20:17 Mattes wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2010 20:02 Entropic wrote:
No seriously... HDH and especially Husky don't do any real analysis... they just try to hype up whatever is going on. If that's what you prefer then kudos, but otherwise look elsewhere. And that is bad in what kind of way? In can honestly say, i enjoy Husky much more than HD, even if he might have less knowledge, but, as a shoutcaster, which he refers to be, thats exactly what i expect. Some _entertaining_ commentary, kind of reminiscent of those korean commentators, screaming like there is no tomorrow. You cant honestly compare Day9, who does analysis for the more hardcore-sc2lers (which i deeply love him for <3), with husky/hd, doing it for the broad youtube-community, perhaps encouraging more people to actually play/watch starcraft than any other recent commentator. Sure, its not nearly as profound as Day9, but otherwise, it does not have to be. f.e. + Show Spoiler +I really enjoyed those 2 games. Very "passionate" cast. And exactly what i expect of him. But well, i guess its kind of the approach you take watching different commentators. Expecting a day9 everywhere is just plain stupid. You all now those persons are damn rare.
I think it is bad, because people watch them and then have no idea how to actually play or understand how to play. Sure it maybe entertaining but you need to also know what you are talking about or you are just misinforming your audience, you don't have to be as technical as day is but at least not just yell stuff that makes no sense for the game.
Honestly, its not the you tube community that has kept BW or will keep SC2 popular and evolving for years to come, it will draw people in but will they stay actually contribute to the community and make it better?
Korean commentators are for the most part like  Nal_rA former players of some sorts they know what they are doing more than any foreigner.
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Cant wait to see Tester play Idra. Last time I watched them I loved the games, Tester is so damn good and he plays so well. Also, first prize is so large, 2k would really help people out!
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On July 20 2010 01:48 jax1492 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2010 20:17 Mattes wrote:On July 19 2010 20:02 Entropic wrote:
No seriously... HDH and especially Husky don't do any real analysis... they just try to hype up whatever is going on. If that's what you prefer then kudos, but otherwise look elsewhere. And that is bad in what kind of way? In can honestly say, i enjoy Husky much more than HD, even if he might have less knowledge, but, as a shoutcaster, which he refers to be, thats exactly what i expect. Some _entertaining_ commentary, kind of reminiscent of those korean commentators, screaming like there is no tomorrow. You cant honestly compare Day9, who does analysis for the more hardcore-sc2lers (which i deeply love him for <3), with husky/hd, doing it for the broad youtube-community, perhaps encouraging more people to actually play/watch starcraft than any other recent commentator. Sure, its not nearly as profound as Day9, but otherwise, it does not have to be. f.e. + Show Spoiler +I really enjoyed those 2 games. Very "passionate" cast. And exactly what i expect of him. But well, i guess its kind of the approach you take watching different commentators. Expecting a day9 everywhere is just plain stupid. You all now those persons are damn rare. I think it is bad, because people watch them and then have no idea how to actually play or understand how to play. Sure it maybe entertaining but you need to also know what you are talking about or you are just misinforming your audience, you don't have to be as technical as day is but at least not just yell stuff that makes no sense for the game. Honestly, its not the you tube community that has kept BW or will keep SC2 popular and evolving for years to come, it will draw people in but will they stay actually contribute to the community and make it better? Korean commentators are for the most part like Nal_rA former players of some sorts they know what they are doing more than any foreigner.
You're arguing about two seperate points. Husky is all shout and explain what is currently happening whereas Sean is more in depth analysis of the game and what can be done differently.
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There is a typo in the calendar. HuK vs Tester is listed twice. HuK is playing Idra on one of those days.
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Netherlands19135 Posts
Stay on topic, if there is more nonsense derailing and negative posting gonna show up in this thread it will have consequences for the posters involved.
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This caster debate is getting annoying. Personally I like them both, Now, it just depends on the target audience what will be best received. For people who don't know much about the game, or are more in it for the general entertainment, a HD/Husky type cast will probably appeal to them more. There's a reason sports commentators act like this. Another example would be those poker shows we have on TV, we often have laughs about how dumb the commentary is, but I've heard they've been told by the execs to dumb it down even more! It's better that way for the average crowd.
I'm very much into the strategic aspect of sc2, so the Day9 casts are more enjoyable for me if I had to choose (at times a HD/Husky will have "dumb" comments that make me think, come on don't be so simplistic) but all in all they're both fine (and there's some BAD ones out there too, I'm not just saying this).. so whichever you prefer will depend on how into the game you are, so it's futile to diss one over the other for that, they both have their niche.
And TLO is definately one of the most creative players in sc2 atm. The things we've seen him do in the past with all 3 races, he has brought some of the most entertaining and surprising games for sure.. maybe some other people are being creative too, but TLO is doing it at the highest level of play and in the important tournaments and getting results with it, that is why it stands out.
Even now against Huk we can see so many atypical things. Supply drops, Raven HSM the protoss army, tanklines moving to cover his 2 expansions, battlecruisers.. only have to say one thing, TLO should really research concussive shells, would have netted him a ton more kills in that second game. Huk's play was nice too, that probe harass was very solid, and mass Archons is not something you see very often either. He might have stood a better chance if he hadn't gotten so many probes roasted in games 2 and 3.
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8748 Posts
Day[9] focuses on StarCraft's biggest asset: strategy.
If what you really love is a bunch of screaming and emotion whenever a player performs an awesome move, then you should really be watching competitive FPS. It's a ton of fun.
If you're watching StarCraft, sure you love the cool moves, cute tricks and epic battles, but the best part of the game is the strategy. If you don't have a commentator that is in tune with the strategy, you are really really missing out. You're getting only a small percentage of what spectating competitive StarCraft has to offer.
While I think Husky is doing great things for the SC2 scene, I don't think his commentating setup is ideal. Neither is Day[9] solo casting (though personally I love it). Someday, all the greatest things will be combined and we'll have perfect SC2 commentating. Until then, enjoy the good things about what we've got, cuz what we've got is pretty damn good!
More on topic: Loved the HuK vs TLO series, of course =] Go TLO!
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I daresay TLO is still more than worth of being called creative, simply because he doesn't stick to very fixed styles of play and alters his builds a lot, relying also on very good micro. He adds small innovative elements here and there, which have usually not been seen done by others at this top level. If not, then I dare those who claim TLO isn't a creative player in SC2 to show one creative player in SC2.
And I couldn't even begin to understand the whole argument about Day9's commentary - I thought it was extremely entertaining, exciting and witty.  The man is clearly enjoying it too, you can hear how genuinely happy he is to cast. (who wouldn't be, with such a great tournament?!) Ahh, can't wait for next days.
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On July 20 2010 01:04 wintergt wrote:
Btw anyone else notice that in TLO vs Huk game 2, Day9 comments on a certain hellion harass that it was a total waste as the "8 hellions only killed one probe", while in actuality they killed a zealot, a HT and 6-7 probes.
aww, thats too bad.
I thought Day[9] was perfect in every way.. now you have ruined it for me!
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Hey I just realized that if you are really impatient (or have a bet on this tournement), couldnt you check the players BNet profiles to see if they won or lost since the games are being pre-played? I guess recent games only shows the last 20 or so, so this window of opportunity is probably gone.
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On July 20 2010 01:16 cive wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 01:04 Whole wrote:On July 19 2010 19:47 IdrA wrote:On July 19 2010 19:13 ChickenLips wrote:
i also think the games should be live casted (without a stream) and recorded and then streamed at a later date. With the HDH we could really see the commentators get excited whereas i found Day9 to be lacking in the enthusiasm department, merely describing what was going on. they start yelling to cover up the fact that they dont know whats going on listen to what he says instead of how loudly he says it and you'll find day is a million times more enjoyable to listen to. Fucking epic quote. Much <3 to IdrA. Anyway, I don't get why people are calling TLO creative. He got popular when he was doing nukes and stuff in the early Beta stages. But even then, he said he cannot promise more of that because I'm sure most people are aware of gimmicky strategies now. I still think he is a good player, but people need to let his hype die down. It is all carried over from when he was first popular, now he is just a normal good player. Now thats just not true. Just a normal good player cannot compete with these high profiles and wouldnt be invited to tournaments, consistently. Creativity in SC is not using units that are not used frequently. Its mostly the timing and the unit combination that makes the opponent feel uncomfortable. There is not doubt in anyone's mind that he is really creative in that sense and he wins with it.
But what he means is there's only so much creativity TLO can do. Its not like hes pioneering a standard army composition / timing. His plays are gimmicky and as amazing as they were to watch, they won't work more than twice, even he said such. TLO is still amazing but his mechanics are gonna have to be even better if he wants to achieve any lasting power. Even though his harass is great I find many times hes painfully passive with his army
On July 20 2010 01:30 nam nam wrote:
Why the fuck does each and every thread have to turn into a competition between HD, Husky and Day9.It's getting old... fast.
Seriously wtf its pathetic. Who really cares who's better, just listen to who you like.
Are people really coming into day9's tournament thread JUST to say hes better than HD and husky?
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The huk TLO series last night was one of the best series of games I have seen all beta. It maybe cause my favorite player is TLO, and my favorite toss player is Huk and I'm biased, but man those were some good games
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[+ Show Spoiler +QUOTE] On July 19 2010 22:14 danbel1005 wrote:On July 19 2010 19:47 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2010 19:13 ChickenLips wrote:
i also think the games should be live casted (without a stream) and recorded and then streamed at a later date. With the HDH we could really see the commentators get excited whereas i found Day9 to be lacking in the enthusiasm department, merely describing what was going on. they start yelling to cover up the fact that they dont know whats going on listen to what he says instead of how loudly he says it and you'll find day is a million times more enjoyable to listen to.
Agreed, also I kinda get the same feeling when I listen to Tasteless casts. [/QUOTE]
Mr Nick Plott is well known for his wide knowledge about starcraft and he is a very good commentator. On top of that I find him very funny.
I dont want to be rude, but suggesting he doesnt know whats going on is pretty much ingnorance.
I would love to see Tasteless and Day9 casting toghether SC2. I hope Tasteless gets in to SC2 soon enough.
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On July 19 2010 15:22 reza wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2010 15:02 javy925 wrote:On July 19 2010 14:58 reza wrote:On July 19 2010 14:42 javy925 wrote:On July 19 2010 12:48 reza wrote:
you're asking me how many people sit back and turtle with 15 siege tanks at their choke..rendering the enemies ground force useless ..and than pump out 8-10 BC's from two starports?? Really? Is that what creative is nowadays? TLO actually was not turtling. If you actually bothered to pay attention to the match rather than rage in chat, you would have noticed that TLO was, in fact, out expanding HuK on Steppes of War. The player who is out-expanding his opponent is not a turtler. On July 19 2010 12:57 reza wrote:
People like to throw down the word 'creativity' around too easily. Creativity was boxer and his amazing micro in his prime.. not a tech switch to battlecruisers while turtling with tanks at your choke point. Oh how i miss those days.. TLO did not "tech switch" into BCs. There was no "switch" involved at all. He already had the Starport + tech lab and was making lots of Ravens. He just needed the necessary number of bases to provide a good flow of income to maintain constant BC production. He merely transitioned into BCs; he didn't do something like go bio and switch to a different tech tree like mech, abandoning his bio buildings. I don't really care if TLO was "creative" or not. Both players put on a great match and played damn well, which is what matters. What are you talking about there was no 'switch' involved at all. The whole point of the argument is that I disagree that transitioning to BC's is creative and i question the fact that he did especially after having a distinctive advantage. If there was no switch involved at all we wouldn't be arguing the fact that his play was 'creative'. And I think you need to watch the game again, because there was definitely some degree of turtling going on. exactly, there was no switch. That is EXACTLY what I said in the first line of that paragraph. I was responding to your quote where YOU said it was a "tech switch." Also, yes, there was some turtling going on but the way you stated it made it seem as if he was sitting on one base with mass tanks and bunkers. You overstated the extent to which TLO "turtled." All I'm saying is that the way his tanks were positioned was a very good idea considering he had to cover THREE bases. When you have an immobile army like that you can't just wander around the entire map. It's very easy for you, as a spectator, to complain why isn't he attacking. The player and the spectator don't see the same things. I don't think you comprehend the term ..'tech' switch. liquipedia it and come back to me. Thank you.
No you Idiot i was saying "what are you talking about..." when you said there was no tech switch.
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TLO pulled some awesome shit in game 2. Battlecruisers seemed imba. Thank you TLO for an another gem.
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On July 20 2010 05:04 s.a.y wrote:
TLO pulled some awesome shit in game 2. Battlecruisers seemed imba. Thank you TLO for an another gem.
whenever you get something like 10-12 battlecruisers it going to seem imba, especially against what was basically a pure ground army. You need tons and tons of void rays to counter that, because you'll basically lose 10-12 void rays off just the yamatos
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On July 20 2010 02:26 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Day[9] focuses on StarCraft's biggest asset: strategy.
If what you really love is a bunch of screaming and emotion whenever a player performs an awesome move, then you should really be watching competitive FPS. It's a ton of fun.
If you're watching StarCraft, sure you love the cool moves, cute tricks and epic battles, but the best part of the game is the strategy. If you don't have a commentator that is in tune with the strategy, you are really really missing out. You're getting only a small percentage of what spectating competitive StarCraft has to offer.
While I think Husky is doing great things for the SC2 scene, I don't think his commentating setup is ideal. Neither is Day[9] solo casting (though personally I love it). Someday, all the greatest things will be combined and we'll have perfect SC2 commentating. Until then, enjoy the good things about what we've got, cuz what we've got is pretty damn good!
More on topic: Loved the HuK vs TLO series, of course =] Go TLO!
Quake 1v1 requires a great deal of strategy in terms of positioning, timing, reading the other players next move etc. Insane mousing skill is also needed to be a top player. It is really enjoyable for a knowledgeable spectator. If anybody is interested in seeing a well commentated intense match, check out "ESL Classics: Rapha vs. Cooller" on youtube. "Pro-player playing Quake III Arena" is also a good example of the potential skill.
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On July 20 2010 05:31 JayDee_ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 02:26 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Day[9] focuses on StarCraft's biggest asset: strategy.
If what you really love is a bunch of screaming and emotion whenever a player performs an awesome move, then you should really be watching competitive FPS. It's a ton of fun.
If you're watching StarCraft, sure you love the cool moves, cute tricks and epic battles, but the best part of the game is the strategy. If you don't have a commentator that is in tune with the strategy, you are really really missing out. You're getting only a small percentage of what spectating competitive StarCraft has to offer.
While I think Husky is doing great things for the SC2 scene, I don't think his commentating setup is ideal. Neither is Day[9] solo casting (though personally I love it). Someday, all the greatest things will be combined and we'll have perfect SC2 commentating. Until then, enjoy the good things about what we've got, cuz what we've got is pretty damn good!
More on topic: Loved the HuK vs TLO series, of course =] Go TLO! Quake 1v1 requires a great deal of strategy in terms of positioning, timing, reading the other players next move etc. Insane mousing skill is also needed to be a top player. It is really enjoyable for a knowledgeable spectator. If anybody is interested in seeing a well commentated intense match, check out "ESL Classics: Rapha vs. Cooller" on youtube. "Pro-player playing Quake III Arena" is also a good example of the potential skill.
He's not saying Quake doesn't have "strategy", but it doesn't have "strategy" in the sense of RTS. That's all he's saying. The other things are a lot more visceral. Grabbing the powerups and armor and weapons, running good routes with good timing, are great skills. You need to know how to play the maps, but there's not the depth to the actual planning going on in the middle of the game. It's more visceral, more reactive, and faster-paced. SC2 would be slightly more cerebral, hopefully proactive, and slightly-slower. I don't think Nony is saying that it RTS games are "easy" or "simple".
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Is anyone else having problems with the blip.tv replays? I can't get them to load.
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Blip tv was definitely not made for those of us with 1.5 mbs....cant watch vods without interruptions  is there a possible alternative way to watch the vods by chance??
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EPT
