EPTname: joroth
league : plat
would love too get another shot at this tourny
was int he last one tons of fun Micro Macro 2 - World Tournament - Page 12
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Joroth
United States318 Posts
name: joroth league : plat would love too get another shot at this tourny was int he last one tons of fun | ||
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RogerChillingworth
2880 Posts
I mean, fuck, have you ever rented a DVD? Netflix? | ||
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StewKer
United States301 Posts
On June 20 2010 00:54 IdrA wrote: well since you didnt respond to my last pm ill address it here live casts are retarded. this is an international tournament, you're inviting players from all over the world. this gives you a responsibility to be at least somewhat accommodating, instead of asking me to come play and then telling me that itll have to be at 5 am. also live casting means that people will be able to cheat, theres no way to check or prevent it. even if you do it with a decent sized delay they can still have a friend relaying information that could make a difference in the game. live casting also means that theres a very good chance that there will be technical problems that have to be solved on the spot resulting in dead time during the casts. it introduces so many problems and the only real benefit is appeasing the morons who cant appreciate a cast from replays. You didn't give me anything to respond to IdrA. All you did is reiterate your first message twice to me which was that you couldn't make certain times and as the current times are listed in the OP I left it at that, until I had something else to notify you about, which I didn't (times have not changed yet). You could of PM'd me with the concerns you have listed above but since we all know you are big on the drama (more power to ya), we'll continue it here. Live casting, yes it is prone to cheating and yes it is prone to technical issues, but nothing recorded can catch that magic of doing live events even if they are solely online. Being located in the South Korean scene as you are, you should know this best. What we can possibly do, and I'll have to talk to the streamers, is somehow introducing a time delay to the cast. 1 minute, 2 minutes, or etc, if there is anyway that is possible I'm sure that is something our casters can manage to do. These guys know their stuff as they are the best in the business. Perhaps I am just naive and have too much faith in people but I would LIKE to think that the people that are playing in the final games, are respectable people. I believe you are a respectable person IdrA, in the respect that you don't cheat. Which in any sport is the most important trait a person can have, in-fact it is THE trait to have. I think many of the better SC2 players out there are the same. The round of 128 through the round of 16 is not being casted though, as has been stated both in the PM I sent you and in the OP. The times there (as they currently stand) are flexible as long as you get in your replays for the rounds by their announced respective deadlines. The times mentioned, 12pm EST and 5PM EST, are flexible and are there solely to help and assist those player matchups that have trouble scheduling on their own. For example if two players cannot come to an agreement on when to play, their series(s) officially start at the noted times. If you can play IdrA we still would love to have you play. If you can play please send me a PM and we will add you to the confirmed list. We'll do our utmost accommodate you as best as we can. Note: Now yes we also have to depend on Blizzard to not screw things over as well (which frankly is the biggest issue in my eyes), but up-times on the weekends have tended to be very good. On June 20 2010 01:00 RogerChillingworth wrote: Yeah, seriously. Who gives a shit about live casts? Never understood why people couldn't get past the psychological block of having to see games as they're going down. I mean, fuck, have you ever rented a DVD? Netflix? Would you rather watch the World Cup live or recorded a week later with the knowledge that you may find out the results before hand. For example to use the HDH, as great a tournament as it was, as an example... It was extremely easy if you knew where to look to find out the results of all those matches before the recordings were livestreamed. From there it is only a simple thing for one person to spam every forum everywhere with the results to ruin it for basically everyone besides those living under a rock. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
what magic? live EVENTS are awesome because theyre live. live casts are nothing. you'll have a handful of idiots bitching that you're casting from a replay and otherwise itll be exactly the same. you have way too much faith in people. i hate to bring it up every time this discussion is had because hes a good guy who i respect a lot, but dimaga cheated in tsl. he was one of the best players in europe, hes an awesome guy. and he cheated. the honor system does not work, and you're gonna have a lot of players who are much less known and respected than him or me or whitera playing. on what basis do you trust them? "Ro8-Final is largely set in stone as those are casted live." from your pm. so accommodate as best you can means not at all? ill play but ill be forfeiting in the ro8 if you insist on this idiocy. disconnects in the middle of a live casted match, very high likelihood of cheating, me, artosis, tasteless, dapollo playing in the middle of the night... those things ruin the tournament far more than people digging through match lists and finding the results. admins were very good about deleting and banning spoiler posts in hdh. if you cast a few hours after the match is played that is not a legit concern. hdh delayed some of the broadcasts for a week or more and was a massive success. | ||
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StewKer
United States301 Posts
On June 20 2010 01:35 IdrA wrote: i told you what times i could not play, that certainly invites a response. what magic? live EVENTS are awesome because theyre live. live casts are nothing. you'll have a handful of idiots bitching that you're casting from a replay and otherwise itll be exactly the same. you have way too much faith in people. i hate to bring it up every time this discussion is had because hes a good guy who i respect a lot, but dimaga cheated in tsl. he was one of the best players in europe, hes an awesome guy. and he cheated. the honor system does not work, and you're gonna have a lot of players who are much less known and respected than him or me or whitera playing. on what basis do you trust them? "Ro8-Final is largely set in stone as those are casted live." from your pm. so accommodate as best you can means not at all? ill play but ill be forfeiting in the ro8 if you insist on this idiocy. Welcome to the tournament, IdrA.  Note: When I said "largely set in stone" I meant "not entirely set in stone, there is room for adjustment". Largely =/= entirely. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
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StewKer
United States301 Posts
On June 20 2010 01:42 IdrA wrote: ya cuz saying the match times are largely set in stone after already posting a broadcast schedule definitely implies that its gonna be a flexible schedule. You should have also noticed that there is a notice that says those times have the possibility of changing. | ||
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AcidiK
Canada19 Posts
Diamond Protoss | ||
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Euphoric
Canada49 Posts
------------ I doubt any of the top players will watch the stream, but it's always a possibility. The same problem with live television programming is present here. You never know what can happen. IE: "I'ma let you finish, but I just wanted you to know that beyonce had the best video of all time" A fanboy could randomly whisper his/her idol and tell him something important from the stream. That specific example of a potential problem depends on the communication set-up of phase 2 of the beta, but i'm sure other potential problems exist. Point being, when it's live, the door is open to just about any problem, and there is a lot more pressure to deal with problems as quickly as possible (and sometimes, quick isn't possible). It just adds a risk factor. I'll take a page out of one of my finance textbooks. Is the additional expected return of casting games live greater than the risk added? It all depends on the risk aversion parameters of the people in charge. Personally, I do find that watching games live is far more exciting than watching replays with commentating, but I understand the concerns. It's a tough call. In the last micro/macro tournament, it was abundantly clear that my opponent in the finals was getting fed information from the stream. Obviously players in a bronze to plat tournament aren't held to the same standards as the legitimate progamers involved in this second tournament, but we're still the same species. If one human being can decide to cheat in the finals of one of the biggest tournaments he's ever been involved in (ie: the last micro/macro for the bronze-plat players involved), it is entirely possible for someone else to do the same, whether he's a progamer or not. In summation... who knows meng. I'm sure at the end of the day, whether it's live or delayed, the tournament will still be a boatload of fun... which i think is the point of having tournaments and playing the game, no? | ||
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hellsan631
United States695 Posts
add a delay to the live cast of about 3-5 minuets. Either that, or cast from replays. I think there needs to be a bit more professionalism and/or respect when regarding the players in this tournament. doing a live stream of anyone (that can tune in), playing for competition would be irresponsible and disrespectful. Since if they play fair, and work really hard, and this can be all undone by the unfair advantage of the omniscient spectator. | ||
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Magus Zeal
2 Posts
Although, I must say to Idra, that in my opinion what you said about forfeiting in the round of 8 if he insists on this 'idiocy' is very unsportsmanlike and I would expect more from a player of your calibur. Ruining someones tournament because you didn't like the way he set it up would be very childish, and in my opinion, a much better way to get your opinion across would be to simply boycott the tournament and inform other players who may have scheduling issues to do so as well. Best of luck to you all! | ||
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Whole
United States6046 Posts
However, live casting has many problems. The first and big one is cheating. It is easy to cheat. Get a friend to watch the stream and relay you info via Battle.net itself or something like ventrilo. I don't see how you could just dismiss this possibility. This is a big deal. You could trust all you like, but not everyone is honorable, and in a high level tournament like this, you should make the elimination of cheating one of your top priorities. You also have technical difficulties to deal with. Sure, a replay cast has technical difficulties, but you could pause the replay and fix it. If the stream goes down or gets massive lag in a live cast, well we just missed part of the tournament and we have to wait a few days/weeks for VODs to be released, if they ever are released. If it is a crucial part of the match, I would hate to have a stream shut down or experience any kind of technical difficulty. The "magic" of live events doesn't exist for me. And I'm sure the "magic" would easily turn in to turmoil if technical difficulties would occur during crucial parts of the games. I still get the same "magic" from a replay because I don't know the results, and even if I would, I wet my pants just to see how the events unfold. I knew the results of the 3rd place HDH before I watched the VODs, but they were still exciting as ever because they were great games. Please replay cast the tournament. I don't want IdrA to (or anyone for that matter, but I'm IdrA fanboy) lose from cheating, nor do I want an event ruined because of technical difficulties. | ||
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scottyyy
United Kingdom796 Posts
On June 20 2010 06:21 hellsan631 wrote: The solution. Its simple. add a delay to the live cast of about 3-5 minuets. Either that, or cast from replays. I think there needs to be a bit more professionalism and/or respect when regarding the players in this tournament. doing a live stream of anyone (that can tune in), playing for competition would be irresponsible and disrespectful. Since if they play fair, and work really hard, and this can be all undone by the unfair advantage of the omniscient spectator. I don't think we have the facilities to add a specific delay, with ustream or livestream. The really simple solution is to just record the entire set of games, along with the casts, and simply stream the recorded video file straight afterwards. HDH did this for the final I believe. No need to cast from replays and worry about covering the progress bar, and we'll have the game streamed minutes after the games are played. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On June 20 2010 01:43 StewKer wrote: You should have also noticed that there is a notice that says those times have the possibility of changing. All following dates/times are approximate pending the release by Blizzard of start dates for the second phase of beta. you also need to change your disconnect rule, disconnect=auto loss given bnet2 is utterly retarded. | ||
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Roe
Canada6002 Posts
Race: Terran Rank: Diamond glad to just be on alt list! :D | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Do you know something TSL1-2 didn't? Because there is a reason the biggest online tourneys have not done that.. There is absolutely no logical reason aside from stubbornness or some ignorant notion of blind social faith (ignoring proof otherwise) to stick to something as Utopian as live casting final rounds of a cash tourney that is online. Additionally it looks WAY better to say "ro4 casted at 21 CET on X date" rather than "ro4 will start at 21 CET on X date" then discover that 1 of the casters can't do X or they lag or livestream goes down or 1 of the 3k people watching msgs one of the players who cannot block them because bnet2.0 is bad and then he KNOWS someone is going DT etc etc etc... That is all NOT COUNTING someone purposely cheating which is 1k% more likely with anything over 100$ on the line. | ||
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az2
United States62 Posts
Race: Random Rank: diamond | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
1.After the livestream, players have to send the replays ASAP. This way you can see if they got a person whispering them. I think that works.... Problems With this: Pretty sure there are other ways of communication you could get metagame info, for example ventrilo or something. If you could deal with that somehow also, maybe this would be better. 2.For the Ro8 and on, you could get the players to play on seperate accounts with hidden emails so then they can't be whispered. Problems with This: Players would have to have other accounts then, possibly they could share the hidden email. Just offering some suggestions. Since it seems that the host is really firm in wanting live games, maybe we could find another workaround like these solutions or (almost certainliy) better ones suggested by other people. | ||
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Whole
United States6046 Posts
On June 20 2010 13:01 Pandain wrote: So I have been thinking about what other people said about the possible faults in how the tornament is set up, but i really like the idea of this tournament so I've decided to offer some (almost certainly bad) solutions. 1.After the livestream, players have to send the replays ASAP. This way you can see if they got a person whispering them. I think that works.... Problems With this: Pretty sure there are other ways of communication you could get metagame info, for example ventrilo or something. If you could deal with that somehow also, maybe this would be better. 2.For the Ro8 and on, you could get the players to play on seperate accounts with hidden emails so then they can't be whispered. Problems with This: Players would have to have other accounts then, possibly they could share the hidden email. Just offering some suggestions. Since it seems that the host is really firm in wanting live games, maybe we could find another workaround like these solutions or (almost certainliy) better ones suggested by other people. You think it would reduce the cheating, but it only makes it more annoying to cheat. If the person is able and wants to cheat, then he will cheat. So doing this does nothing to stop cheating, just makes the tournament more tedious. | ||
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Dudeguy
United States12 Posts
Race: Protoss Rank: Platinum | ||
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