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On May 24 2010 02:41 haypro wrote:
meh zvz is a joke,its so hard to defend with ling/baneling and unfortunately its the only good counter to that strat. so in the end it all comes down to who can get baneling first to the opponents doorstep and keep them coming.
Indeed, this is the new 3 warp gate but seen in zvz instead. It is so much harder to defend against the banelings than to be aggressive with them. Also, you have to commit hardcore to roaches if you want to be able to hold against a baneling bust. If you do, you will be behind in pretty much every other strat the other zerg player does. Which results in a match up which really is rock paper scissors.
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I am just SHOCKED by how well Sen is playing vs TLO. TLO seems to be living up to his incredible potential, but is still being best'ed by Sen most of the time.
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op isn't updated with week 2 results T_T
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On May 24 2010 02:41 haypro wrote:
meh zvz is a joke,its so hard to defend with ling/baneling and unfortunately its the only good counter to that strat. so in the end it all comes down to who can get baneling first to the opponents doorstep and keep them coming.
I thought it was refreshing to see a micro win other then all these macro wins...
<3 micro battles
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Are there any VODs of all these games?
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On May 24 2010 02:31 Sfydjklm wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2010 01:50 MurMur wrote:
ZvZ is extremely broken right now, the games generally come down to 1 spot of lag where a baneling hits just perfect or a renegade baneling that happens to blow up in a good spot. I don't believe that it is a display of any skill atm.
Right now ZvZ is worse than it was when beta first came out and it was pure roach. thats why haypro got 3-0ed. cos its random. Thats why top korean zvzers went 3-0 in groups in world cup. ^^
i havent seen some of the games, but most of those situations its the "top koreans" doing the baneling allins and the other players trying something else. if you took all of the decent zergs and had them do a round robin and every one of them do 14 gas 13 pool ling baneling i dont think anyone would be over 60% win. the reason some of them are on top (not all, people like freedom and cool and whanot really are the best but gerrard is nothing but allins) is because theyre willing to just sit doing this build instead of trying to find something more stable and reliable.
its like when warpgates were even sillier and there were a bunch of random bad protosses beating everyone with it, including people who were more skilled pvp, just because theyve found a strong strategy that doesnt require very much in the way of execution and they do it every game.
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How would you compare it to ZvZ in BW?
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On May 24 2010 10:46 Azarkon wrote:
How would you compare it to ZvZ in BW?
in some ways its actually better, now that they finished neutering roaches ling baneling can beat any other build so you dont get the rock paper scissors aspect too much.
but in others so much worse, they took the skilled muta/scourge fights out and replaced it with the idiocy that is banelings. if a baneling explodes on another baneling the one that exploded dies while the one it explodes on lives, meaning the best thing you can do is just seperate banelings and move command them to your opponents min line and protect them with speedlings till they're close.
lack of scourge means that muta vs muta games are utterly retarded too. whoever has more mutas wins, flat out, and the ease of macro means that whoever gets more gas first has more mutas. so basically the whole matchup boils down to whoever gets their natural gasses up first without dying and then preventing ling raids.
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I really wish hydras move speed was better off of creep so that you'd have a chance to actually engage air units with them. That way you could have hydra+muta vs a larger muta army, to an extent.
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Scotland380 Posts
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On May 24 2010 01:21 ZlaSHeR wrote:
Ionno I think its pretty lame that asians, who mostly play zerg, do these sort of styles that never enter the macro game. If korea is supposed to still be so far ahead of US and EU, then why do they resort to cheesy styles? Why not show that you can be the better players straight up
So when Europeans/NA do obscure styles then they're being 'innovative' but if a Korean player does a non-macro play he/she is cheesing?
The fact of the matter is all strategies are fair and legal, and the Asians are winning. Are you seriously going to argue that Euros/NA favor a 'normal' macro style play and don't ever 'cheese'?
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The top gamers are all capable of a macro game. But when they can take a game quickly with early pressure, why not.
And wow, TLO vs Sen game 3 crashing 3 times. That really sucks. Great play by both of them too. Two of the best SC2 players in the world right now.
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On May 24 2010 15:50 IdrA wrote:in some ways its actually better, now that they finished neutering roaches ling baneling can beat any other build so you dont get the rock paper scissors aspect too much. but in others so much worse, they took the skilled muta/scourge fights out and replaced it with the idiocy that is banelings. if a baneling explodes on another baneling the one that exploded dies while the one it explodes on lives, meaning the best thing you can do is just seperate banelings and move command them to your opponents min line and protect them with speedlings till they're close. lack of scourge means that muta vs muta games are utterly retarded too. whoever has more mutas wins, flat out, and the ease of macro means that whoever gets more gas first has more mutas. so basically the whole matchup boils down to whoever gets their natural gasses up first without dying and then preventing ling raids.
Yea, sounds pretty bad. Has any Zerg tried to work in infestors with hydras to regain map control from muta users? I can see a well-timed fungal growth killing a lot of mutas, but it seems hard to transition into once you lose map control to mutaling.
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Thanks for posting those links wodger I was having trouble finding the sen tlo series on day9's bliptv page for some reason. After rewatching it for the second time, + Show Spoiler +I was surprised by how well tlo played and sen is f'ing disgusting. I'm not sure if I can learn all the transitions and timing that he goes for in the second game on steppes of war against the build tlo did. When I watched these games live I thought tlo might have been playing bad or something but I didn't notice how close the games were at first even though tlo was down 0-2. He could have easily have gone 2-0 instead.
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On May 25 2010 04:51 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2010 15:50 IdrA wrote:On May 24 2010 10:46 Azarkon wrote:
How would you compare it to ZvZ in BW? in some ways its actually better, now that they finished neutering roaches ling baneling can beat any other build so you dont get the rock paper scissors aspect too much. but in others so much worse, they took the skilled muta/scourge fights out and replaced it with the idiocy that is banelings. if a baneling explodes on another baneling the one that exploded dies while the one it explodes on lives, meaning the best thing you can do is just seperate banelings and move command them to your opponents min line and protect them with speedlings till they're close. lack of scourge means that muta vs muta games are utterly retarded too. whoever has more mutas wins, flat out, and the ease of macro means that whoever gets more gas first has more mutas. so basically the whole matchup boils down to whoever gets their natural gasses up first without dying and then preventing ling raids. Yea, sounds pretty bad. Has any Zerg tried to work in infestors with hydras to regain map control from muta users? I can see a well-timed fungal growth killing a lot of mutas, but it seems hard to transition into once you lose map control to mutaling.
you dont keep going muta if they go ground, you just use the mutas to get an econ advantage and then beat them on the ground
but ya hydra/fungal rapes mutas if you do
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week 3! lets see if maka's tvp has improved enough to challenge whitera ^^;
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