• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:27
CEST 11:27
KST 18:27
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection2Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026)7
Community News
Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th126Weekly Cups (May 18-24): MaxPax wins doubles0Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League5Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double1
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League GSL Code S Season 2 (2026)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 528 Infection Detected Welcome to the External Content forum Mutation # 527 Hell Train
Brood War
General
Data analysis on 70 million replays FlaShFTW vs A.Alm Grudge Match Event Data needed BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ?
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [BSL22] WB Final & LB Semis - Saturday 21:00 CEST
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne ZeroSpace Megathread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Dating: How's your luck? Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
McBoner: A hockey love story 2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Esportsmanship: How to NOT B…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5323 users

[H/D]copying Clem's Macro TvT

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
alpenrahm
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany629 Posts
May 13 2021 13:15 GMT
#1
My wise and dear old friends I have never met, today is the day I write to you in a selfish attempt to gain your trust and affection!

For I am in need of your wisdom! (maybe not really? Who knows?)

I have recently come across a replay that intrigued me It came from somewhere and was played in a tournament somewhen, but it matters not (Clem vs Byun dunno any more). What does matter is that it provides an excellent blueprint for how to do a safe super smooth and lightning fast no scout macro TvT. I have been trying to copy this marvellous Bo for a bit to get it ready for ladder play. In preparation for this I did make some notes and put a little thought into why some things get build and why others don't, but honestly the tech route and choice of units is very, very standard and precise in its response to the various potential attacks that can be thrown at one in TvT. What did impress me the most about this was the fact that Clem managed to edge out an economic early game lead against Byun! When they were essentially doing the exact same build (both go double gas --> double Raven), and converted it to a superior unit count, earlier upgrades and an earlier third and fourth all the while being perfectly untouchable.

Here is the Game in question Replay

Here is a VoD of the game

And this is me practising the Bo (8th try or something like that )


And here are my personal notes:

Clems 2 Raven Macro TvT / Build

Rax - Gas - opening
2nd Gas 13 @supply
Depot
Rax -> 2Reaper -> @27/31 (shortly after hellion starts) Reactor -> 6 marines total (cut marines for earlier third!) 2 asap
(OC natural before Rine 3/4) after 6 rines leave on reactor for emergencies
but dont use. Then swap onto Starport Tlab for upgrades

Factory asap ---> pull 3 scvs out of gas
Fact --- >Hellion ->widowmine -> Tlab -> Cyclone -> tank (Factory never idle!)
CC

@Fact 100% resaturate main gas with newly made scvs keep 15/16 on minerals

after Reactor ---> starport asap
SUPPLYDEPOT 30/31! after Starport!
@Starport 100% -> Tlab -> Raven asap -> Raven --- switch onto Reactor
->> double vikings (BEFORE STIM!) --> 8 vikings

3rd gas done @Natural CC (35/54)
@(44/54) spotting depot in main dead space
@
@(59/62) (4:37) 3rd CC in main
@(66/70) 2 rax ---> 2Reac asap
@Natural saturated --> 4th gas + double ebay --> armory in time for 2/2 --> +1Vehicle attack
@6:00 3rd CC on location
@~7:40 4th and 5th rax
@ 8:00 4th CC Turrets and Sensors
@9:00 second factory on Rax Tlab
Build new Reactor with the original Rax

Final Setup: 4 CCs (+More later in the game) 5Rax on Reac, 2Factories 1 Starport


Unit movement
1st reaper scout own natural and 3rd for proxies --> return to main ramp then chill in base until WM

@WM 100% defend natural with 2 reapers 2 rines 1 hellion and wm

3:45 - proxy drop timing - have 1 hellion 1 rine in main

4:20 - Push timing - unitz outside of natural to spot for tank push, WM forward, single marine to check
secondary attack path. Maybe use reaper hellion to scout map a bit

6:00 - expand vision circle, rally unitz to third.

~6:30 Use Cyclone to guard drop path to natural
m
@6:27 we have 52 Scvs, 1 hellion, 2 reapers, 1 cyclone, 4! Tanks, 6 marines, 2 ravens, 1WM

9:30 secure 4th with army saturate and build defences

!Leave 2 Tanks at 3rd!

after this it's all about positioning and killing enemy tanks and air.
Don't use tanks to break lines. Use marines! and Ravens!

From here on out its the usual 3/1/1 3base setup into 4 base whatever. Stop scvs on 3 Bases
build army to secure space and take 4th when reasonable. At this point sensor towers and 2-3 turrets might be in order


At this point, haven't had the opportunity to ruin another terrans day with this Bo but I did get to try it against a cheesy protoss and it worked out ok ish... (didn't win the game but i felt ok with how the macro side of it went considering its not meant to do well vs toss)

So what I would like to gain some insight in is; Is this actually viable or am I missing some glaring weaknesses here?

I will be doing a ladder session now and hopefully get some replays to upload here!

neptunusfisk
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
2286 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-05-15 09:02:13
May 15 2021 08:57 GMT
#2
Interesting notes and happy to see Clem's builds being analysed because he's such a wonderful player to copy in my opinion.

Found the notes quite confusing prior to looking at the game (I'm not so good at TvT build orders) so here's short summary of the opening for anyone who's as confused as I am:
  • barracks and double gas into 2 reapers and a factory
  • 2nd cc and starport (hellion, reactor, starport, widow mine, techlab, cyclone)
  • and then ravens, tanks, marines
  • and a 3rd cc and 2 extra barracks
  • swap starport to reactor and barracks to tech lab, get vikings and stim

Will definitely try it out but I have a feeling I'm going to mess it up quite severly.. :p
maru G5L pls
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26924 Posts
May 20 2021 18:41 GMT
#3
Oh nice, might have a look at this!
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States686 Posts
May 20 2021 21:13 GMT
#4
Gotta try this one out.
Mostly a troll, bi-polar by design, occasionally brain malfunction. Please forgive me. xD
alpenrahm
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany629 Posts
May 20 2021 22:08 GMT
#5
You can check the vods from the recent Inno vs special matches. They played very similar to this bo. Their unit choices had a bit of variety but the gas and building timings were exactly as described in the bo. Special used this 111 to transition into mech whereas inno takes the same build and goes marine tank with it.
IMSupervisor
Profile Joined June 2016
Australia138 Posts
May 28 2021 03:57 GMT
#6
Great post! Thanks for putting it all together.
PinoKotsBeer
Profile Joined February 2014
Netherlands1385 Posts
June 26 2021 13:59 GMT
#7
On May 21 2021 07:08 alpenrahm wrote:
You can check the vods from the recent Inno vs special matches. They played very similar to this bo. Their unit choices had a bit of variety but the gas and building timings were exactly as described in the bo. Special used this 111 to transition into mech whereas inno takes the same build and goes marine tank with it.

Do you have a link to those matches?
http://www.twitch.tv/pinokotsbeer
alpenrahm
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany629 Posts
June 28 2021 15:22 GMT
#8
On June 26 2021 22:59 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 21 2021 07:08 alpenrahm wrote:
You can check the vods from the recent Inno vs special matches. They played very similar to this bo. Their unit choices had a bit of variety but the gas and building timings were exactly as described in the bo. Special used this 111 to transition into mech whereas inno takes the same build and goes marine tank with it.

Do you have a link to those matches?


sure.



enjoy. Its a nice series
PinoKotsBeer
Profile Joined February 2014
Netherlands1385 Posts
July 01 2021 20:18 GMT
#9
On June 29 2021 00:22 alpenrahm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 26 2021 22:59 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
On May 21 2021 07:08 alpenrahm wrote:
You can check the vods from the recent Inno vs special matches. They played very similar to this bo. Their unit choices had a bit of variety but the gas and building timings were exactly as described in the bo. Special used this 111 to transition into mech whereas inno takes the same build and goes marine tank with it.

Do you have a link to those matches?


sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPDrecN7C0U

enjoy. Its a nice series

Thank you kindly
http://www.twitch.tv/pinokotsbeer
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 33m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 976
Hyun 431
BeSt 106
actioN 97
Mind 94
Dewaltoss 90
Rush 83
Pusan 81
EffOrt 74
Soma 61
[ Show more ]
Backho 49
hero 46
Sharp 30
NaDa 26
Shinee 25
Bale 18
soO 10
IntoTheRainbow 5
Dota 2
Gorgc1231
League of Legends
JimRising 506
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1931
allub229
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King84
Other Games
ceh9662
singsing161
Sick112
RuFF_SC232
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick485
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 80
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 80
• LUISG 38
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis4179
• Jankos2719
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
33m
WardiTV Spring Champion…
1h 33m
Maestros of the Game
6h 3m
The PondCast
1d
Kung Fu Cup
1d 1h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 5h
Maestros of the Game
1d 6h
Replay Cast
1d 14h
Replay Cast
1d 23h
WardiTV Spring Champion…
2 days
[ Show More ]
Maestros of the Game
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
Maestros of the Game
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Solar vs Classic
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
GSL
4 days
herO vs Rogue
Maru vs Cure
Patches Events
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
BSL
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KK 2v2 League Season 1
RSL Revival: Season 5
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Heroes Pulsing #3
Heroes Pulsing #2
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.