• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:59
CEST 11:59
KST 18:59
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out0RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-2212Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-69SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-64
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out SC4ALL: II Talent Announcement! Protoss AoE skill expression August World Ranking: Clem climbs to #2 Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)
Tourneys
RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Tasteless Time Warp: SC Evo Showmatch (May 25)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 538 Media Blackout The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL22 General Discussion Are you ready for ASL 22? NEW HYPE VIDEO How FlaSh Nearly Forfeited MSL Finals being late BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2v2v2v2 Tournament KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3 Escore Tournament - Season 3
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Any training maps people recommend? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread EVE Corporation Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Diablo 2 thread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Iain M Banks Says He Has Cancer And Months To Live European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Are High-Level Gamers more A…
TrAiDoS
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3709 users

[H/D]copying Clem's Macro TvT

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
alpenrahm
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany629 Posts
May 13 2021 13:15 GMT
#1
My wise and dear old friends I have never met, today is the day I write to you in a selfish attempt to gain your trust and affection!

For I am in need of your wisdom! (maybe not really? Who knows?)

I have recently come across a replay that intrigued me It came from somewhere and was played in a tournament somewhen, but it matters not (Clem vs Byun dunno any more). What does matter is that it provides an excellent blueprint for how to do a safe super smooth and lightning fast no scout macro TvT. I have been trying to copy this marvellous Bo for a bit to get it ready for ladder play. In preparation for this I did make some notes and put a little thought into why some things get build and why others don't, but honestly the tech route and choice of units is very, very standard and precise in its response to the various potential attacks that can be thrown at one in TvT. What did impress me the most about this was the fact that Clem managed to edge out an economic early game lead against Byun! When they were essentially doing the exact same build (both go double gas --> double Raven), and converted it to a superior unit count, earlier upgrades and an earlier third and fourth all the while being perfectly untouchable.

Here is the Game in question Replay

Here is a VoD of the game

And this is me practising the Bo (8th try or something like that )


And here are my personal notes:

Clems 2 Raven Macro TvT / Build

Rax - Gas - opening
2nd Gas 13 @supply
Depot
Rax -> 2Reaper -> @27/31 (shortly after hellion starts) Reactor -> 6 marines total (cut marines for earlier third!) 2 asap
(OC natural before Rine 3/4) after 6 rines leave on reactor for emergencies
but dont use. Then swap onto Starport Tlab for upgrades

Factory asap ---> pull 3 scvs out of gas
Fact --- >Hellion ->widowmine -> Tlab -> Cyclone -> tank (Factory never idle!)
CC

@Fact 100% resaturate main gas with newly made scvs keep 15/16 on minerals

after Reactor ---> starport asap
SUPPLYDEPOT 30/31! after Starport!
@Starport 100% -> Tlab -> Raven asap -> Raven --- switch onto Reactor
->> double vikings (BEFORE STIM!) --> 8 vikings

3rd gas done @Natural CC (35/54)
@(44/54) spotting depot in main dead space
@
@(59/62) (4:37) 3rd CC in main
@(66/70) 2 rax ---> 2Reac asap
@Natural saturated --> 4th gas + double ebay --> armory in time for 2/2 --> +1Vehicle attack
@6:00 3rd CC on location
@~7:40 4th and 5th rax
@ 8:00 4th CC Turrets and Sensors
@9:00 second factory on Rax Tlab
Build new Reactor with the original Rax

Final Setup: 4 CCs (+More later in the game) 5Rax on Reac, 2Factories 1 Starport


Unit movement
1st reaper scout own natural and 3rd for proxies --> return to main ramp then chill in base until WM

@WM 100% defend natural with 2 reapers 2 rines 1 hellion and wm

3:45 - proxy drop timing - have 1 hellion 1 rine in main

4:20 - Push timing - unitz outside of natural to spot for tank push, WM forward, single marine to check
secondary attack path. Maybe use reaper hellion to scout map a bit

6:00 - expand vision circle, rally unitz to third.

~6:30 Use Cyclone to guard drop path to natural
m
@6:27 we have 52 Scvs, 1 hellion, 2 reapers, 1 cyclone, 4! Tanks, 6 marines, 2 ravens, 1WM

9:30 secure 4th with army saturate and build defences

!Leave 2 Tanks at 3rd!

after this it's all about positioning and killing enemy tanks and air.
Don't use tanks to break lines. Use marines! and Ravens!

From here on out its the usual 3/1/1 3base setup into 4 base whatever. Stop scvs on 3 Bases
build army to secure space and take 4th when reasonable. At this point sensor towers and 2-3 turrets might be in order


At this point, haven't had the opportunity to ruin another terrans day with this Bo but I did get to try it against a cheesy protoss and it worked out ok ish... (didn't win the game but i felt ok with how the macro side of it went considering its not meant to do well vs toss)

So what I would like to gain some insight in is; Is this actually viable or am I missing some glaring weaknesses here?

I will be doing a ladder session now and hopefully get some replays to upload here!

neptunusfisk
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
2286 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-05-15 09:02:13
May 15 2021 08:57 GMT
#2
Interesting notes and happy to see Clem's builds being analysed because he's such a wonderful player to copy in my opinion.

Found the notes quite confusing prior to looking at the game (I'm not so good at TvT build orders) so here's short summary of the opening for anyone who's as confused as I am:
  • barracks and double gas into 2 reapers and a factory
  • 2nd cc and starport (hellion, reactor, starport, widow mine, techlab, cyclone)
  • and then ravens, tanks, marines
  • and a 3rd cc and 2 extra barracks
  • swap starport to reactor and barracks to tech lab, get vikings and stim

Will definitely try it out but I have a feeling I'm going to mess it up quite severly.. :p
maru G5L pls
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27251 Posts
May 20 2021 18:41 GMT
#3
Oh nice, might have a look at this!
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States704 Posts
May 20 2021 21:13 GMT
#4
Gotta try this one out.
Mostly a troll, bi-polar by design, occasionally brain malfunction. Please forgive me. xD
alpenrahm
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany629 Posts
May 20 2021 22:08 GMT
#5
You can check the vods from the recent Inno vs special matches. They played very similar to this bo. Their unit choices had a bit of variety but the gas and building timings were exactly as described in the bo. Special used this 111 to transition into mech whereas inno takes the same build and goes marine tank with it.
IMSupervisor
Profile Joined June 2016
Australia138 Posts
May 28 2021 03:57 GMT
#6
Great post! Thanks for putting it all together.
PinoKotsBeer
Profile Joined February 2014
Netherlands1385 Posts
June 26 2021 13:59 GMT
#7
On May 21 2021 07:08 alpenrahm wrote:
You can check the vods from the recent Inno vs special matches. They played very similar to this bo. Their unit choices had a bit of variety but the gas and building timings were exactly as described in the bo. Special used this 111 to transition into mech whereas inno takes the same build and goes marine tank with it.

Do you have a link to those matches?
http://www.twitch.tv/pinokotsbeer
alpenrahm
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany629 Posts
June 28 2021 15:22 GMT
#8
On June 26 2021 22:59 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 21 2021 07:08 alpenrahm wrote:
You can check the vods from the recent Inno vs special matches. They played very similar to this bo. Their unit choices had a bit of variety but the gas and building timings were exactly as described in the bo. Special used this 111 to transition into mech whereas inno takes the same build and goes marine tank with it.

Do you have a link to those matches?


sure.



enjoy. Its a nice series
PinoKotsBeer
Profile Joined February 2014
Netherlands1385 Posts
July 01 2021 20:18 GMT
#9
On June 29 2021 00:22 alpenrahm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 26 2021 22:59 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
On May 21 2021 07:08 alpenrahm wrote:
You can check the vods from the recent Inno vs special matches. They played very similar to this bo. Their unit choices had a bit of variety but the gas and building timings were exactly as described in the bo. Special used this 111 to transition into mech whereas inno takes the same build and goes marine tank with it.

Do you have a link to those matches?


sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPDrecN7C0U

enjoy. Its a nice series

Thank you kindly
http://www.twitch.tv/pinokotsbeer
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 3291
Hyuk 1251
Bisu 1046
firebathero 897
Jaedong 411
Larva 302
Killer 253
Mini 209
EffOrt 198
JulyZerg 185
[ Show more ]
Dewaltoss 98
Free 80
Pusan 78
Stork 69
sorry 60
Barracks 56
soO 34
hero 28
Sharp 23
Light 12
Terrorterran 10
Dota 2
XBOCT1396
febbydoto28
League of Legends
JimRising 373
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1862
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King106
Other Games
singsing1667
ceh9587
crisheroes208
Sick159
QueenE11
Livibee11
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick474
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 11
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 68
• LUISG 34
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP5
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2268
Other Games
• WagamamaTV86
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1m
CranKy Ducklings13
PiG Sty Festival
2h 1m
PiGosaur Cup
14h 1m
Replay Cast
23h 1m
Kung Fu Cup
1d 1h
Replay Cast
1d 14h
The PondCast
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Escore
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Rush vs Hm
Bisu vs Shuttle
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
The Patches Monday
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-10
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
Acropolis #5
RSL Revival: Season 6
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W7
CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
Escore Tournament S3: W8
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
META DYMY #4
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ.
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.