• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 18:08
CET 00:08
KST 08:08
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)1Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win2RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge2[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation14
StarCraft 2
General
When will we find out if there are more tournament Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket
Tourneys
Tenacious Turtle Tussle RSL Revival: Season 3 $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest
Strategy
Ride the Waves in Surf City: Why Surfing Lessons H
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle soO on: FanTaSy's Potential Return to StarCraft Data analysis on 70 million replays 2v2 maps which are SC2 style with teams together? [BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)
Tourneys
[BSL21] GosuLeague T1 Ro16 - Tue & Thu 22:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO16 Tie Breaker - Group B - Sun 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Tie Breaker - Group A - Sat 21:00 CET
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? Current Meta PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Clair Obscur - Expedition 33
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Health Impact of Joining…
TrAiDoS
Dyadica Evangelium — Chapt…
Hildegard
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1968 users

[H/D]copying Clem's Macro TvT

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
alpenrahm
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany629 Posts
May 13 2021 13:15 GMT
#1
My wise and dear old friends I have never met, today is the day I write to you in a selfish attempt to gain your trust and affection!

For I am in need of your wisdom! (maybe not really? Who knows?)

I have recently come across a replay that intrigued me It came from somewhere and was played in a tournament somewhen, but it matters not (Clem vs Byun dunno any more). What does matter is that it provides an excellent blueprint for how to do a safe super smooth and lightning fast no scout macro TvT. I have been trying to copy this marvellous Bo for a bit to get it ready for ladder play. In preparation for this I did make some notes and put a little thought into why some things get build and why others don't, but honestly the tech route and choice of units is very, very standard and precise in its response to the various potential attacks that can be thrown at one in TvT. What did impress me the most about this was the fact that Clem managed to edge out an economic early game lead against Byun! When they were essentially doing the exact same build (both go double gas --> double Raven), and converted it to a superior unit count, earlier upgrades and an earlier third and fourth all the while being perfectly untouchable.

Here is the Game in question Replay

Here is a VoD of the game

And this is me practising the Bo (8th try or something like that )


And here are my personal notes:

Clems 2 Raven Macro TvT / Build

Rax - Gas - opening
2nd Gas 13 @supply
Depot
Rax -> 2Reaper -> @27/31 (shortly after hellion starts) Reactor -> 6 marines total (cut marines for earlier third!) 2 asap
(OC natural before Rine 3/4) after 6 rines leave on reactor for emergencies
but dont use. Then swap onto Starport Tlab for upgrades

Factory asap ---> pull 3 scvs out of gas
Fact --- >Hellion ->widowmine -> Tlab -> Cyclone -> tank (Factory never idle!)
CC

@Fact 100% resaturate main gas with newly made scvs keep 15/16 on minerals

after Reactor ---> starport asap
SUPPLYDEPOT 30/31! after Starport!
@Starport 100% -> Tlab -> Raven asap -> Raven --- switch onto Reactor
->> double vikings (BEFORE STIM!) --> 8 vikings

3rd gas done @Natural CC (35/54)
@(44/54) spotting depot in main dead space
@
@(59/62) (4:37) 3rd CC in main
@(66/70) 2 rax ---> 2Reac asap
@Natural saturated --> 4th gas + double ebay --> armory in time for 2/2 --> +1Vehicle attack
@6:00 3rd CC on location
@~7:40 4th and 5th rax
@ 8:00 4th CC Turrets and Sensors
@9:00 second factory on Rax Tlab
Build new Reactor with the original Rax

Final Setup: 4 CCs (+More later in the game) 5Rax on Reac, 2Factories 1 Starport


Unit movement
1st reaper scout own natural and 3rd for proxies --> return to main ramp then chill in base until WM

@WM 100% defend natural with 2 reapers 2 rines 1 hellion and wm

3:45 - proxy drop timing - have 1 hellion 1 rine in main

4:20 - Push timing - unitz outside of natural to spot for tank push, WM forward, single marine to check
secondary attack path. Maybe use reaper hellion to scout map a bit

6:00 - expand vision circle, rally unitz to third.

~6:30 Use Cyclone to guard drop path to natural
m
@6:27 we have 52 Scvs, 1 hellion, 2 reapers, 1 cyclone, 4! Tanks, 6 marines, 2 ravens, 1WM

9:30 secure 4th with army saturate and build defences

!Leave 2 Tanks at 3rd!

after this it's all about positioning and killing enemy tanks and air.
Don't use tanks to break lines. Use marines! and Ravens!

From here on out its the usual 3/1/1 3base setup into 4 base whatever. Stop scvs on 3 Bases
build army to secure space and take 4th when reasonable. At this point sensor towers and 2-3 turrets might be in order


At this point, haven't had the opportunity to ruin another terrans day with this Bo but I did get to try it against a cheesy protoss and it worked out ok ish... (didn't win the game but i felt ok with how the macro side of it went considering its not meant to do well vs toss)

So what I would like to gain some insight in is; Is this actually viable or am I missing some glaring weaknesses here?

I will be doing a ladder session now and hopefully get some replays to upload here!

neptunusfisk
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
2286 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-05-15 09:02:13
May 15 2021 08:57 GMT
#2
Interesting notes and happy to see Clem's builds being analysed because he's such a wonderful player to copy in my opinion.

Found the notes quite confusing prior to looking at the game (I'm not so good at TvT build orders) so here's short summary of the opening for anyone who's as confused as I am:
  • barracks and double gas into 2 reapers and a factory
  • 2nd cc and starport (hellion, reactor, starport, widow mine, techlab, cyclone)
  • and then ravens, tanks, marines
  • and a 3rd cc and 2 extra barracks
  • swap starport to reactor and barracks to tech lab, get vikings and stim

Will definitely try it out but I have a feeling I'm going to mess it up quite severly.. :p
maru G5L pls
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26134 Posts
May 20 2021 18:41 GMT
#3
Oh nice, might have a look at this!
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States675 Posts
May 20 2021 21:13 GMT
#4
Gotta try this one out.
Mostly a troll, bi-polar by design, occasionally brain malfunction. Please forgive me. xD
alpenrahm
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany629 Posts
May 20 2021 22:08 GMT
#5
You can check the vods from the recent Inno vs special matches. They played very similar to this bo. Their unit choices had a bit of variety but the gas and building timings were exactly as described in the bo. Special used this 111 to transition into mech whereas inno takes the same build and goes marine tank with it.
IMSupervisor
Profile Joined June 2016
Australia138 Posts
May 28 2021 03:57 GMT
#6
Great post! Thanks for putting it all together.
PinoKotsBeer
Profile Joined February 2014
Netherlands1385 Posts
June 26 2021 13:59 GMT
#7
On May 21 2021 07:08 alpenrahm wrote:
You can check the vods from the recent Inno vs special matches. They played very similar to this bo. Their unit choices had a bit of variety but the gas and building timings were exactly as described in the bo. Special used this 111 to transition into mech whereas inno takes the same build and goes marine tank with it.

Do you have a link to those matches?
http://www.twitch.tv/pinokotsbeer
alpenrahm
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany629 Posts
June 28 2021 15:22 GMT
#8
On June 26 2021 22:59 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 21 2021 07:08 alpenrahm wrote:
You can check the vods from the recent Inno vs special matches. They played very similar to this bo. Their unit choices had a bit of variety but the gas and building timings were exactly as described in the bo. Special used this 111 to transition into mech whereas inno takes the same build and goes marine tank with it.

Do you have a link to those matches?


sure.



enjoy. Its a nice series
PinoKotsBeer
Profile Joined February 2014
Netherlands1385 Posts
July 01 2021 20:18 GMT
#9
On June 29 2021 00:22 alpenrahm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 26 2021 22:59 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
On May 21 2021 07:08 alpenrahm wrote:
You can check the vods from the recent Inno vs special matches. They played very similar to this bo. Their unit choices had a bit of variety but the gas and building timings were exactly as described in the bo. Special used this 111 to transition into mech whereas inno takes the same build and goes marine tank with it.

Do you have a link to those matches?


sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPDrecN7C0U

enjoy. Its a nice series

Thank you kindly
http://www.twitch.tv/pinokotsbeer
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 52m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
UpATreeSC 211
elazer 206
CosmosSc2 41
StarCraft: Brood War
Bisu 2307
BeSt 167
ZZZero.O 162
Artosis 136
Hyun 130
Killer 61
ggaemo 35
SilentControl 24
NaDa 8
Dota 2
syndereN289
Counter-Strike
Foxcn153
Fnx 79
Other Games
Grubby7280
Liquid`Hasu230
C9.Mang0143
ViBE111
Maynarde90
Trikslyr46
fpsfer 1
minikerr1
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream176
StarCraft 2
angryscii 27
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 24 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 79
• sitaska45
• musti20045 29
• davetesta20
• Adnapsc2 13
• Migwel
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 34
• Pr0nogo 5
• mYiSmile12
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• Ler71
League of Legends
• Doublelift3596
• TFBlade1480
Other Games
• Scarra1610
• imaqtpie1452
• Shiphtur590
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
1h 52m
Replay Cast
9h 52m
Wardi Open
12h 52m
OSC
13h 52m
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
1d
The PondCast
1d 10h
Replay Cast
1d 23h
OSC
2 days
LAN Event
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

SOOP Univ League 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
SLON Tour Season 2
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.