• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 10:10
CET 16:10
KST 00:10
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book13Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14
Community News
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)1Weekly Cups (Feb 2-8): Classic, Solar, MaxPax win2Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker7PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar)11Weekly Cups (Jan 26-Feb 1): herO, Clem, ByuN, Classic win2
StarCraft 2
General
How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker Terran Scanner Sweep
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16) RSL Season 4 announced for March-April WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
Custom Maps
Modalert 200 for Focus and Alertness Map Editor closed ? [A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 512 Overclocked The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 511 Temple of Rebirth Mutation # 510 Safety Violation
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates StarCraft player reflex TE scores Gypsy to Korea
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Diablo 2 thread ZeroSpace Megathread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Sex and weight loss YouTube Thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Play, Watch, Drink: Esports …
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1663 users

[H/D]copying Clem's Macro TvT

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
alpenrahm
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany629 Posts
May 13 2021 13:15 GMT
#1
My wise and dear old friends I have never met, today is the day I write to you in a selfish attempt to gain your trust and affection!

For I am in need of your wisdom! (maybe not really? Who knows?)

I have recently come across a replay that intrigued me It came from somewhere and was played in a tournament somewhen, but it matters not (Clem vs Byun dunno any more). What does matter is that it provides an excellent blueprint for how to do a safe super smooth and lightning fast no scout macro TvT. I have been trying to copy this marvellous Bo for a bit to get it ready for ladder play. In preparation for this I did make some notes and put a little thought into why some things get build and why others don't, but honestly the tech route and choice of units is very, very standard and precise in its response to the various potential attacks that can be thrown at one in TvT. What did impress me the most about this was the fact that Clem managed to edge out an economic early game lead against Byun! When they were essentially doing the exact same build (both go double gas --> double Raven), and converted it to a superior unit count, earlier upgrades and an earlier third and fourth all the while being perfectly untouchable.

Here is the Game in question Replay

Here is a VoD of the game

And this is me practising the Bo (8th try or something like that )


And here are my personal notes:

Clems 2 Raven Macro TvT / Build

Rax - Gas - opening
2nd Gas 13 @supply
Depot
Rax -> 2Reaper -> @27/31 (shortly after hellion starts) Reactor -> 6 marines total (cut marines for earlier third!) 2 asap
(OC natural before Rine 3/4) after 6 rines leave on reactor for emergencies
but dont use. Then swap onto Starport Tlab for upgrades

Factory asap ---> pull 3 scvs out of gas
Fact --- >Hellion ->widowmine -> Tlab -> Cyclone -> tank (Factory never idle!)
CC

@Fact 100% resaturate main gas with newly made scvs keep 15/16 on minerals

after Reactor ---> starport asap
SUPPLYDEPOT 30/31! after Starport!
@Starport 100% -> Tlab -> Raven asap -> Raven --- switch onto Reactor
->> double vikings (BEFORE STIM!) --> 8 vikings

3rd gas done @Natural CC (35/54)
@(44/54) spotting depot in main dead space
@
@(59/62) (4:37) 3rd CC in main
@(66/70) 2 rax ---> 2Reac asap
@Natural saturated --> 4th gas + double ebay --> armory in time for 2/2 --> +1Vehicle attack
@6:00 3rd CC on location
@~7:40 4th and 5th rax
@ 8:00 4th CC Turrets and Sensors
@9:00 second factory on Rax Tlab
Build new Reactor with the original Rax

Final Setup: 4 CCs (+More later in the game) 5Rax on Reac, 2Factories 1 Starport


Unit movement
1st reaper scout own natural and 3rd for proxies --> return to main ramp then chill in base until WM

@WM 100% defend natural with 2 reapers 2 rines 1 hellion and wm

3:45 - proxy drop timing - have 1 hellion 1 rine in main

4:20 - Push timing - unitz outside of natural to spot for tank push, WM forward, single marine to check
secondary attack path. Maybe use reaper hellion to scout map a bit

6:00 - expand vision circle, rally unitz to third.

~6:30 Use Cyclone to guard drop path to natural
m
@6:27 we have 52 Scvs, 1 hellion, 2 reapers, 1 cyclone, 4! Tanks, 6 marines, 2 ravens, 1WM

9:30 secure 4th with army saturate and build defences

!Leave 2 Tanks at 3rd!

after this it's all about positioning and killing enemy tanks and air.
Don't use tanks to break lines. Use marines! and Ravens!

From here on out its the usual 3/1/1 3base setup into 4 base whatever. Stop scvs on 3 Bases
build army to secure space and take 4th when reasonable. At this point sensor towers and 2-3 turrets might be in order


At this point, haven't had the opportunity to ruin another terrans day with this Bo but I did get to try it against a cheesy protoss and it worked out ok ish... (didn't win the game but i felt ok with how the macro side of it went considering its not meant to do well vs toss)

So what I would like to gain some insight in is; Is this actually viable or am I missing some glaring weaknesses here?

I will be doing a ladder session now and hopefully get some replays to upload here!

neptunusfisk
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
2286 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-05-15 09:02:13
May 15 2021 08:57 GMT
#2
Interesting notes and happy to see Clem's builds being analysed because he's such a wonderful player to copy in my opinion.

Found the notes quite confusing prior to looking at the game (I'm not so good at TvT build orders) so here's short summary of the opening for anyone who's as confused as I am:
  • barracks and double gas into 2 reapers and a factory
  • 2nd cc and starport (hellion, reactor, starport, widow mine, techlab, cyclone)
  • and then ravens, tanks, marines
  • and a 3rd cc and 2 extra barracks
  • swap starport to reactor and barracks to tech lab, get vikings and stim

Will definitely try it out but I have a feeling I'm going to mess it up quite severly.. :p
maru G5L pls
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26242 Posts
May 20 2021 18:41 GMT
#3
Oh nice, might have a look at this!
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States680 Posts
May 20 2021 21:13 GMT
#4
Gotta try this one out.
Mostly a troll, bi-polar by design, occasionally brain malfunction. Please forgive me. xD
alpenrahm
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany629 Posts
May 20 2021 22:08 GMT
#5
You can check the vods from the recent Inno vs special matches. They played very similar to this bo. Their unit choices had a bit of variety but the gas and building timings were exactly as described in the bo. Special used this 111 to transition into mech whereas inno takes the same build and goes marine tank with it.
IMSupervisor
Profile Joined June 2016
Australia138 Posts
May 28 2021 03:57 GMT
#6
Great post! Thanks for putting it all together.
PinoKotsBeer
Profile Joined February 2014
Netherlands1385 Posts
June 26 2021 13:59 GMT
#7
On May 21 2021 07:08 alpenrahm wrote:
You can check the vods from the recent Inno vs special matches. They played very similar to this bo. Their unit choices had a bit of variety but the gas and building timings were exactly as described in the bo. Special used this 111 to transition into mech whereas inno takes the same build and goes marine tank with it.

Do you have a link to those matches?
http://www.twitch.tv/pinokotsbeer
alpenrahm
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany629 Posts
June 28 2021 15:22 GMT
#8
On June 26 2021 22:59 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 21 2021 07:08 alpenrahm wrote:
You can check the vods from the recent Inno vs special matches. They played very similar to this bo. Their unit choices had a bit of variety but the gas and building timings were exactly as described in the bo. Special used this 111 to transition into mech whereas inno takes the same build and goes marine tank with it.

Do you have a link to those matches?


sure.



enjoy. Its a nice series
PinoKotsBeer
Profile Joined February 2014
Netherlands1385 Posts
July 01 2021 20:18 GMT
#9
On June 29 2021 00:22 alpenrahm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 26 2021 22:59 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
On May 21 2021 07:08 alpenrahm wrote:
You can check the vods from the recent Inno vs special matches. They played very similar to this bo. Their unit choices had a bit of variety but the gas and building timings were exactly as described in the bo. Special used this 111 to transition into mech whereas inno takes the same build and goes marine tank with it.

Do you have a link to those matches?


sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPDrecN7C0U

enjoy. Its a nice series

Thank you kindly
http://www.twitch.tv/pinokotsbeer
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 8h 50m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
TKL 188
Rex 100
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 43829
Horang2 2629
Snow 548
hero 329
actioN 316
Shuttle 308
Soma 295
Mong 205
Barracks 109
Zeus 65
[ Show more ]
JulyZerg 48
ToSsGirL 34
Hm[arnc] 29
910 29
Rock 29
Terrorterran 23
scan(afreeca) 21
Shine 19
Movie 16
soO 16
Noble 9
Sacsri 6
Dota 2
Gorgc2323
Dendi590
420jenkins199
syndereN161
Counter-Strike
allub332
adren_tv22
Other Games
singsing1820
hiko1068
B2W.Neo895
RotterdaM479
DeMusliM306
crisheroes264
Happy238
Fuzer 213
Sick196
Mew2King115
KnowMe77
ArmadaUGS67
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 15
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH282
• StrangeGG 101
• HeavenSC 13
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV449
• lizZardDota242
League of Legends
• Jankos2870
• TFBlade985
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
8h 50m
The PondCast
18h 50m
KCM Race Survival
18h 50m
LiuLi Cup
19h 50m
Scarlett vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs herO
Replay Cast
1d 8h
Online Event
1d 18h
LiuLi Cup
1d 19h
Serral vs Zoun
Cure vs Classic
Big Brain Bouts
2 days
Serral vs TBD
RSL Revival
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
[ Show More ]
LiuLi Cup
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
LiuLi Cup
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
LiuLi Cup
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
5 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-02-10
Rongyi Cup S3
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W8
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
WardiTV Winter 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.