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[H/D]copying Clem's Macro TvT

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
alpenrahm
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany628 Posts
May 13 2021 13:15 GMT
#1
My wise and dear old friends I have never met, today is the day I write to you in a selfish attempt to gain your trust and affection!

For I am in need of your wisdom! (maybe not really? Who knows?)

I have recently come across a replay that intrigued me It came from somewhere and was played in a tournament somewhen, but it matters not (Clem vs Byun dunno any more). What does matter is that it provides an excellent blueprint for how to do a safe super smooth and lightning fast no scout macro TvT. I have been trying to copy this marvellous Bo for a bit to get it ready for ladder play. In preparation for this I did make some notes and put a little thought into why some things get build and why others don't, but honestly the tech route and choice of units is very, very standard and precise in its response to the various potential attacks that can be thrown at one in TvT. What did impress me the most about this was the fact that Clem managed to edge out an economic early game lead against Byun! When they were essentially doing the exact same build (both go double gas --> double Raven), and converted it to a superior unit count, earlier upgrades and an earlier third and fourth all the while being perfectly untouchable.

Here is the Game in question Replay

Here is a VoD of the game

And this is me practising the Bo (8th try or something like that )


And here are my personal notes:

Clems 2 Raven Macro TvT / Build

Rax - Gas - opening
2nd Gas 13 @supply
Depot
Rax -> 2Reaper -> @27/31 (shortly after hellion starts) Reactor -> 6 marines total (cut marines for earlier third!) 2 asap
(OC natural before Rine 3/4) after 6 rines leave on reactor for emergencies
but dont use. Then swap onto Starport Tlab for upgrades

Factory asap ---> pull 3 scvs out of gas
Fact --- >Hellion ->widowmine -> Tlab -> Cyclone -> tank (Factory never idle!)
CC

@Fact 100% resaturate main gas with newly made scvs keep 15/16 on minerals

after Reactor ---> starport asap
SUPPLYDEPOT 30/31! after Starport!
@Starport 100% -> Tlab -> Raven asap -> Raven --- switch onto Reactor
->> double vikings (BEFORE STIM!) --> 8 vikings

3rd gas done @Natural CC (35/54)
@(44/54) spotting depot in main dead space
@
@(59/62) (4:37) 3rd CC in main
@(66/70) 2 rax ---> 2Reac asap
@Natural saturated --> 4th gas + double ebay --> armory in time for 2/2 --> +1Vehicle attack
@6:00 3rd CC on location
@~7:40 4th and 5th rax
@ 8:00 4th CC Turrets and Sensors
@9:00 second factory on Rax Tlab
Build new Reactor with the original Rax

Final Setup: 4 CCs (+More later in the game) 5Rax on Reac, 2Factories 1 Starport


Unit movement
1st reaper scout own natural and 3rd for proxies --> return to main ramp then chill in base until WM

@WM 100% defend natural with 2 reapers 2 rines 1 hellion and wm

3:45 - proxy drop timing - have 1 hellion 1 rine in main

4:20 - Push timing - unitz outside of natural to spot for tank push, WM forward, single marine to check
secondary attack path. Maybe use reaper hellion to scout map a bit

6:00 - expand vision circle, rally unitz to third.

~6:30 Use Cyclone to guard drop path to natural
m
@6:27 we have 52 Scvs, 1 hellion, 2 reapers, 1 cyclone, 4! Tanks, 6 marines, 2 ravens, 1WM

9:30 secure 4th with army saturate and build defences

!Leave 2 Tanks at 3rd!

after this it's all about positioning and killing enemy tanks and air.
Don't use tanks to break lines. Use marines! and Ravens!

From here on out its the usual 3/1/1 3base setup into 4 base whatever. Stop scvs on 3 Bases
build army to secure space and take 4th when reasonable. At this point sensor towers and 2-3 turrets might be in order


At this point, haven't had the opportunity to ruin another terrans day with this Bo but I did get to try it against a cheesy protoss and it worked out ok ish... (didn't win the game but i felt ok with how the macro side of it went considering its not meant to do well vs toss)

So what I would like to gain some insight in is; Is this actually viable or am I missing some glaring weaknesses here?

I will be doing a ladder session now and hopefully get some replays to upload here!

neptunusfisk
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
2286 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-05-15 09:02:13
May 15 2021 08:57 GMT
#2
Interesting notes and happy to see Clem's builds being analysed because he's such a wonderful player to copy in my opinion.

Found the notes quite confusing prior to looking at the game (I'm not so good at TvT build orders) so here's short summary of the opening for anyone who's as confused as I am:
  • barracks and double gas into 2 reapers and a factory
  • 2nd cc and starport (hellion, reactor, starport, widow mine, techlab, cyclone)
  • and then ravens, tanks, marines
  • and a 3rd cc and 2 extra barracks
  • swap starport to reactor and barracks to tech lab, get vikings and stim

Will definitely try it out but I have a feeling I'm going to mess it up quite severly.. :p
maru G5L pls
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25020 Posts
May 20 2021 18:41 GMT
#3
Oh nice, might have a look at this!
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States652 Posts
May 20 2021 21:13 GMT
#4
Gotta try this one out.
Mostly a troll, bi-polar by design, occasionally brain malfunction. Please forgive me. xD
alpenrahm
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany628 Posts
May 20 2021 22:08 GMT
#5
You can check the vods from the recent Inno vs special matches. They played very similar to this bo. Their unit choices had a bit of variety but the gas and building timings were exactly as described in the bo. Special used this 111 to transition into mech whereas inno takes the same build and goes marine tank with it.
IMSupervisor
Profile Joined June 2016
Australia138 Posts
May 28 2021 03:57 GMT
#6
Great post! Thanks for putting it all together.
PinoKotsBeer
Profile Joined February 2014
Netherlands1385 Posts
June 26 2021 13:59 GMT
#7
On May 21 2021 07:08 alpenrahm wrote:
You can check the vods from the recent Inno vs special matches. They played very similar to this bo. Their unit choices had a bit of variety but the gas and building timings were exactly as described in the bo. Special used this 111 to transition into mech whereas inno takes the same build and goes marine tank with it.

Do you have a link to those matches?
http://www.twitch.tv/pinokotsbeer
alpenrahm
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany628 Posts
June 28 2021 15:22 GMT
#8
On June 26 2021 22:59 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 21 2021 07:08 alpenrahm wrote:
You can check the vods from the recent Inno vs special matches. They played very similar to this bo. Their unit choices had a bit of variety but the gas and building timings were exactly as described in the bo. Special used this 111 to transition into mech whereas inno takes the same build and goes marine tank with it.

Do you have a link to those matches?


sure.



enjoy. Its a nice series
PinoKotsBeer
Profile Joined February 2014
Netherlands1385 Posts
July 01 2021 20:18 GMT
#9
On June 29 2021 00:22 alpenrahm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 26 2021 22:59 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
On May 21 2021 07:08 alpenrahm wrote:
You can check the vods from the recent Inno vs special matches. They played very similar to this bo. Their unit choices had a bit of variety but the gas and building timings were exactly as described in the bo. Special used this 111 to transition into mech whereas inno takes the same build and goes marine tank with it.

Do you have a link to those matches?


sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPDrecN7C0U

enjoy. Its a nice series

Thank you kindly
http://www.twitch.tv/pinokotsbeer
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