On December 15 2015 10:56 blade55555 wrote: Glad to see a Terran taking the time and effort to write a guide. Keep it up man
Yes. Now tell me how to beat Ultralisks.
I recently played with more success in TvZ. I don't know how to win vs Ultra if it is LBM vs 4M, i think libs could work as you get them anyways?
But if it is RR into Infestor into Ultra, THEN i got at least a solution that worked so far for me! Are you ready? Are you rly ready?
My answer is 4Starport cloak speed banshee!!! HYPE
And so far it worked! Normally my games are like 3 rax reaper Byun style into Macro, works quite well for me, for some reason i get better with reaper micro and macro behind. then into Bio Tank Medivac, vs RR, it rly worked so far only vs RR cant tell if it works vs LBM as well. I go grab a 3rd and by times a 4th, rly important is, get your macro flowing. If you can deny the 3rd from the Z while you set up your own, good stuff. So i try to max out on Bio Tank Medic with 2/2 and i go out and attack. With good micro you can trade, that hits around the 10 min mark, so normally Zerg wanna switch now on Ultra, BUT you traded, so OP Plating isnt finished and they remax on roaches, and ravager some new infestors and try to go maybe for some ultras. Behind then i take a 4th and get another armory for air upgrades (2 armorys in total) and ofc 4 more SPs, so i have 5, 1 with reactor and 4 with TL, AND i also get the Fusion Core! So i can produce 4 banshees a time, with cloak and speed, and speed is the real important thing here.
By the time the Zerg attacks you with ultras, he most likely has not much bank left, and guess what, when he attacks me, i got already 12-16 banshes out. and they wrek, ultras, inf, RR, Zerglings, Banelings, Queens, Spores, Hatcheries, basically everything Zerg got at this time. And you also got Tanks and Bio because of Mules and the 4th base. You can supply that, you might not have 3/3 on all your army, but that is ok, you hardcounter Zerg.
And yes i faced already Viper, und Muta, it is to late. Zerg doesnt scout, they have the mind "I go Ultra i win Kappa" and you can like "NOPE! Try again" The time you reveal your banshees it is to late, you wrek his army, and with your bio and banshees and tanks you can simply a move over him. Viper, split and get more banshees, dont stop aggression, go for it! Muta, you got 5 SPs get Libs man^^ also you got marines and medics, easy stuff. The only thing i am worried are corruptor, but you can outrun them with the speedbanshee. Try it. Maybe that is the way to go. For me at least it worked, if you argue it doesnt work in your league, i am currently Master, so, it can work, up till master league, if it is viable in GM or for pros i dont know But i rly start liking my speedbanshee switch *___*'
Avilo consistently beats Ultralisk/viper/infestor/broodlords/lings with Liberators/Thors/Ghosts/Hellbats, actually that is answer for everything and you have to fight on favorable terrain and hope Zerg doesnt get bullshit parasitic bombs off on too many Liberators.
On December 15 2015 19:40 cop354g wrote: Avilo consistently beats Ultralisk/viper/infestor/broodlords/lings with Liberators/Thors/Ghosts/Hellbats, actually that is answer for everything and you have to fight on favorable terrain and hope Zerg doesnt get bullshit parasitic bombs off on too many Liberators.
Liberators do alright until Zerg has the sense to make Vipers and Corruptors. Avilo plays purely mech so his transition is different and his playstyle suffers less vs Ultras. I'm feeling that Bio has to make *some* Liberators and a bunch of ghosts and then we have to micro our big fat asses off.
On December 15 2015 19:40 cop354g wrote: Avilo consistently beats Ultralisk/viper/infestor/broodlords/lings with Liberators/Thors/Ghosts/Hellbats, actually that is answer for everything and you have to fight on favorable terrain and hope Zerg doesnt get bullshit parasitic bombs off on too many Liberators.
Liberators do alright until Zerg has the sense to make Vipers and Corruptors. Avilo plays purely mech so his transition is different and his playstyle suffers less vs Ultras. I'm feeling that Bio has to make *some* Liberators and a bunch of ghosts and then we have to micro our big fat asses off.
Last night Avilo had game where he started bio, but realized that zerg was playing their little game of camping in base with lingblingmuta, so drops were out of question and he transitioned into mech because there is no way bio can handle zerg lategame. It was long game and map got mined out but Avilo once again showed his awesome terran skills and endured. Avilo beat the zerg army countless times with just liberators/thors/ghosts/hellbats. He was on the verge of losing few times, but eventually zerg ran out of steam.
Vipers are real bullshit unit currently, and terran has to play 100x better than zerg to win and hope for zerg making mistakes. In perfect world, zerg would of course win all ZvTs.
Libs/Thors are basicly only unit you need to make, everything else just sucks.
Hmm, as a zerg player, 2 base nydus will kill any helion opening almost all the time. Even with only 2 helion made, it's usually pretty hard to stop, let alone hellbat openings. Feels like the one you mentioned in your guide hits pretty late compared to what I've been doing (see FC vs MMA from HSC).
On January 06 2016 18:07 kottbullar wrote: Hmm, as a zerg player, 2 base nydus will kill any helion opening almost all the time. Even with only 2 helion made, it's usually pretty hard to stop, let alone hellbat openings. Feels like the one you mentioned in your guide hits pretty late compared to what I've been doing (see FC vs MMA from HSC).
I couldn't tell you 100% what the Nydus timings are yet, but my 2 Liberators are out and about by 4:30, and my armory is generally done around 4:55, but even 2 Liberators camped on top of a nydus with a bunch of hellions and SCVs should be a no go for Zerg. I'll look into it.
EDIT:
Worm starts around 4:35. All my shit is done in time to combat it, Hellbats and all. Even in the sample video I put (which was a top 8 KR Master) my liberators arrived seconds late and it still worked for me. Note that I threw down a third CC right in the face of the worm because I didn't care.
The one here hits a bit later so there may be a few more losses. Firecake did not open with zergling speed either so that was a cut to get the faster worm.
Good reasoning there. I think the key point in your defense that is not stressed enough in your guide is to keep your stuffs at home until you're sure its not a nydus allin. In my games usually people have their hellbats morphing in front of my base by the time Im starting my worm and thats almost always a win for the Zerg.
On January 06 2016 19:39 kottbullar wrote: Good reasoning there. I think the key point in your defense that is not stressed enough in your guide is to keep your stuffs at home until you're sure its not a nydus allin. In my games usually people have their hellbats morphing in front of my base by the time Im starting my worm and thats almost always a win for the Zerg.
Yea I look for the big tells. I always scout for ling speed so I can gauge how aggressive I can be with reaper hellion. I count the gas as well and see if they're going to follow up on speed or skip it at all.
Nydus all ins and 2 base muta both have similar tells: - Fast gas - Fast Lair - Late Thirds
The general difference is you need to poke their natural to spot roaches or a large number of unaggressive Queens. A scan doesn't hurt either. That's how I saw the opponent in my video was going Nydus. Poked with reaper/hellion and pulled back and scanned to be sure. I keep stuff at home for Nydus and I go aggressive vs 2 base mutas but I save the 2 libs during the attack and bring them back home while making 2 more for Mutas.
Updated OP with a Full Game Commentary on a Game played that went Liberator Hellbat into very fast Ultras (he cut a ton of corners) vs a Mid-High Master Zerg. Lots of late game Liberators and multi drops.
However, my opponent lacked:
- Mass banes - Infestors - More Vipers
So take the video with a grain of salt it's just a mediocre example.
Hey, just got back into SC2 for the first time since WoL.
I didn't use camera hotkeys back when I played SC2, but I did in BW, (i played z then, did it for my main, 2nd, 3rd.)
Even thought it's brand new to me, I've gotten into too much of a habit with "that key". I'm curious - it might seem slightly irrelevant to the majority of your post, but what do you do for your camera hotkeys? your main, natural/rally /harrassment point? I plan just to use f3/f4 because of my bad habit, so yeah!
On January 07 2016 21:32 coolprogrammingstuff wrote: Hey, just got back into SC2 for the first time since WoL.
I didn't use camera hotkeys back when I played SC2, but I did in BW, (i played z then, did it for my main, 2nd, 3rd.)
Even thought it's brand new to me, I've gotten into too much of a habit with "that key". I'm curious - it might seem slightly irrelevant to the majority of your post, but what do you do for your camera hotkeys? your main, natural/rally /harrassment point? I plan just to use f3/f4 because of my bad habit, so yeah!
F1 through F4 I just do my first 4 bases. I multi prong drop a ton and like to send single marines to scout or hold towers so using Select all Army is a big nono for me.
Great new replay of me losing to GM Zerg Tyranus on Prion Terraces. The game started normal had some drops and skirmishes and went to Ultralisks.
The main issues I had this game:
- I did not throw down 2-3 more Starports once I spotted the Hive - I wasn't responsible about dropping his 3 o clock bases and his 7 o clock bases when our fight was over when I could have denied him money - I was slow to remove his burrowed lings from my future expansions
EPT
But i rly start liking my speedbanshee switch *___*'
