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Ling bane queen does really well.
You surround the cyclones with lings and kill the hellbats with banes while using queens to finish it all.
You probably need like 6-7 queens to hold comfortably. Number of lings/banes depends on how early they hit
I guess it could work, but surrounding the hellions is needed too. I'll try, thanks.
Roach alone don't work, but ravagers do as they are faster, more range, and not armored, and bile can touch hellbat.
But you need at least 3 gas mining to build enough ravagers.
I didn't think about ravagers. I'll also try that, thanks.
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On May 18 2018 07:29 RaiZ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2018 07:10 brickrd wrote:
burrow roach might work. terran would need medivacs to chase over the minerals and you might force a lot of scans. just theorycrafting. baneling drops maybe? even a few swarm hosts in drop overlords?
gold maps are notoriously silly and imba. blizz obviously just likes to experiment I don't care about burrow roaches. It needs lair + upgrade from roach warren. Which is like 5 minutes late. I'm talking about how to take your gold without being "disturbed" by any ranged units that the others race can easily abuse while you, you can't. At least not until you have a roach warren. What stop terran and protoss to take their gold ASAP when you can't take yours ? That's the main problem I have with this map.
Ravagers ?
Else send a queen, it's slow but has 5 range.
Also queen + drone, you hatch cancel, put a tumor and build a spine :D.
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Another issue that I wanted to discuss: is it worth it to invest into swarmhosts when playing against mech? I know that they are great to harrass, but it seems to me that locusts die very quickly against hellbats (leaving you with much less supply in direct engagements). What do you think? Thanks.
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As you said, they are absolutely terrible vs properly built mech armies (because hellbats melt locusts), but they are generally great harass tools and trade fantastically vs mech units that cost gas. They are very good in scrappy games OR if you have map control and can provide SHs safety with vision and creep.
They are also the best comeback tool vs mech in my experience.
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I have a simple chart for this :
Does he have a lot of tanks ?
--> Make a lot of SH
Does he play with a lot of Thors and Hellbats ?
--> Make some hydra & banes
Although SHs can still be extremely useful. 10 SH will shutdown a base pretty fast and if you can micro the locusts, they can also take down thors and other expensive units.
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On May 25 2018 03:19 therealkillemall wrote:
Another issue that I wanted to discuss: is it worth it to invest into swarmhosts when playing against mech? I know that they are great to harrass, but it seems to me that locusts die very quickly against hellbats (leaving you with much less supply in direct engagements). What do you think? Thanks.
The key is really avoiding the hellbats and to micro your locuts by splitting them and going where the hellbats aren't. That allows you to abuse tank splash and avoid the hellbats splash which is the most effective at clearing your locuts.
But i feel like swarm hosts are a unit that you have to baby sit quiet a lot which can hurt your macro of you're not careful.
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Hi everyone.
I just got back into the he after a long hiatus. So far everything is kinda coming back at a satisfying pace.
Meta wise though, I am a bit confused, mainly for zvp.
I really dig the Hydra ling bane style that I see from the pros, but it really doesn't seem effective at the diamond level.
Should I only use this style against zealot heavy builds and use roach Hydra the rest of the time?
Is this a matter of scouting better or a matter of execution?
Thanks for helping out.
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Hey guys, also coming back after a veeeeery long hiatus. Can someone point me to a place with buildorders? I'm low level so preferably I just want a build that gets me in a good position verus al races and then take it from there.
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On July 18 2018 06:54 Psychotikah wrote:
Hi everyone.
I just got back into the he after a long hiatus. So far everything is kinda coming back at a satisfying pace.
Meta wise though, I am a bit confused, mainly for zvp.
I really dig the Hydra ling bane style that I see from the pros, but it really doesn't seem effective at the diamond level.
Should I only use this style against zealot heavy builds and use roach Hydra the rest of the time?
Is this a matter of scouting better or a matter of execution?
Thanks for helping out.
Probably scouting and execution
First you want to make only around 16 hydras and the rest ling/bane
In defense, make sure you fight on creep, and use flanks if possible. After A-moving, select banelings and try to kill the high templars. Getting rid of storm is a priority. Ideally the hydras kill archons and the lings tank damage from immortals.
In offense, unless going for a committed timing attack, you want to split your army.
Ling or bane runbys while attacking somewhere else, Neuro's 70/30 is a nice and simple tactic.
For example I often attack a protoss' 3rd/4th with all hydras banes and some lings, and send like 40 lings in another location to kill probes or tech (best case scenario they forgot to wall their natural with a zealot).
Your army is weaker but you're more mobile and max out faster, hence why you generally want to avoid fighting their whole army with your whole army.
The lategame transition is generally hive+spire then greater spire and ~8 broodlords which end the game if they didn't transition air fast enough.
On July 18 2018 16:40 Amestir wrote:
Hey guys, also coming back after a veeeeery long hiatus. Can someone point me to a place with buildorders? I'm low level so preferably I just want a build that gets me in a good position verus al races and then take it from there.
https://lotv.spawningtool.com/build/zvx/
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ZvT, when you attack throughout the game, as a general rule how much do you leave at home to defend and where?
I lost a game recently where I was way ahead mid-game because I had my whole army out on the map and a drop of some marine/mine/cyclone wrecked my main. I felt like just a couple hydras at home would have stopped it but all I had was 1 spore and a queen. It went on my minimap and I should have seen it but missed it because I wasn't looking....
anyway, what are some general rules/tips on leaving units home for drop defense? Thanks!
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If you don't have a big advantage/aren't doing a prepared timing:
don't attack Terran before you have brood lords.
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I think it's more map dependant than just "never attack into a T before BLs".
On many maps you can pull a T apart with good ling bane hydra multitask.
Most important thing is vision though. Spread creep and OVs. Try to see drop before they are in your base. If my opponent is playing drop heavy, I usually leave 6-8 hydras and some lings in my main and possibly more lings near the 4th-5th
Dont forget that queens are extremely efficient at shutting down drops. If you see the drop early, it's ok to move 4-5 queens to shut it down.
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yeah queens are great against drops, but you MUST target fire them. 4 full energy queens get roflstomped by 2 medivacs if you don't start targeting the medivacs before they're over the ground.
if you're on hydra tech it's also definitely worth it to leave about 4-5 hydras alone in the main where you expect medivacs to fly in (this is a regular thing i've seen pros do in games moreso than something i personally do). yes, the hydras are a little vulnerable without ling support, but if you're in position then medivacs will melt to a small pack of target fired hydras. it makes boosting in very risky for terran. it will also help you train your minimap awareness, and the better you get at that the more effective those 4-5 hydras will be
another cool thing to do is: if your army is out on the map when a drop hits you and you have to retreat home to defend, queue up a small runby into terran's 3rd or 4th base first. a lot of terrans will start heavily microing a drop when they see no defense and won't be ready for a counterattack until they pick up and leave with the drop, especially if they have a lazy rally point etc
finally, i'm also a huge believer in spreading creep throughout your main base no matter what. it's a horrible feeling to be waddling queens off of creep in a large main base, you KNOW the drop is coming, but you can't get there fast enough to target the medivacs and your whole defense fails. i make my first or second tumor a main base tumor, then once your creep is out on the map far enough you can hop the active tumor down a cliff to keep using it effectively.
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Just wanted to drop back in and thank you guys for helping me get back in the game. After a 4 years hiatus I did my placement matches, went 4-1 and got in to platinum tier 3! Thats higher then I have ever been :D
All thanks to spawningtool and Pigs zvx economic build. Just by sticking to the basic build I was so far ahead every game I basicly couldn't lose.
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Hi, I've been playing off and on lately but I'm really really struggling with ZvP atm, especially Storm/Carrier. I have never ever beaten this comp, even going to Ling/Hydra/Bane into Corrupter/BL. What's an effective way to combat this comp? Especially when combined with Immortal/Zealot/Archon or with Void/Storm/Phoenix? Thank you! It's been really frustrating and completely sapping all the fun out of the match up for me and discouraging me from playing at all.
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On July 24 2018 15:33 theanticitizen wrote:
Hi, I've been playing off and on lately but I'm really really struggling with ZvP atm, especially Storm/Carrier. I have never ever beaten this comp, even going to Ling/Hydra/Bane into Corrupter/BL. What's an effective way to combat this comp? Especially when combined with Immortal/Zealot/Archon or with Void/Storm/Phoenix? Thank you! It's been really frustrating and completely sapping all the fun out of the match up for me and discouraging me from playing at all.
This is a very broad question. Could be fast carrier into storm, or immortal/zealot/archon into carriers, or phoenixes into carriers/void into storm, etc...
These are dealt with very differently so I'll just go to the end game composition vs skytoss for now.
Against turtle skytoss you should be able to reach 80 drones and more bases way faster, allowing you to support your army with mass spore crawlers.
The composition you want is mass corruptor/infestor with a few ultras :
- Ultras kill the high templars easily to remove storms
- Infestors neural archons/VRs/carriers
- Corruptors focus down carriers one by one
Against the more common immortal/zealot/archon, they usually go carriers only in response to your ling-bane-hydra into BLs. You can probably kill them before they have enough to defend the BLs. Otherwise I'd still go hydra-BL, but adjust the number of corruptors you add depending on how much they commit to air.
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Is there a good guide somewhere on ZvZ 2 base muta strategy? I've watched a few replays but that only helps me to copy a build... it's more difficult to understand the decision-making tree that goes into the strategy. Thanks for any tips!
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On July 25 2018 03:52 hegemony wrote:
Is there a good guide somewhere on ZvZ 2 base muta strategy? I've watched a few replays but that only helps me to copy a build... it's more difficult to understand the decision-making tree that goes into the strategy. Thanks for any tips!
generally you want to go ling bane up to 3 base, then lair and spire once the early game stabilizes rather than 2 base spire which is slightly cheesy and will make your opponent suspicious. the decision tree for spire is if he commits to roach tech you need a combination of a lot of spines and /or a lot of zerglings to hold a potential push. spines can be canceled if he plays passive. from there you either go quickly back to roach and ground tech while harassing with muta or you add more muta with many speed banes and ling counterattacks hoping to take a big fight against hydras with banes microed past roaches. if he also goes muta you get air armor and try to control the map and win the muta fight, then play as you want from there. in the late game you can transition to ultras, brood lords or really whatever you want because with muta you want to stay ahead in bases and economy. also scout for nydus if you are scouted.
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Hey guys,
back to playing after a REALLY long time (was watching a lot but didnt play anymore). Is there a website with some of the most standard BOs in the 3 MUs?
Thanks a lot! :-)
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Can't call it the most standard build orders, but if you are looking for a site you can check this one:
https://sc2swarm.com/
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EPT
