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therealkillemall
Spain30 Posts
I have been trouble against mech lately. I struggle before vipers are out. It seems to me that preventing the terran from getting a 4th base is needed. At the same time, part of the army have to stay at home to prevent hellion runbies. And the worst thing is to engage properly a mech push before vipers. Everything dies to tanks and mutalisks are not a solution once there are 3 or 4 thors. What can I do to stop this pushes before vipers? Maybe my viper timings are just late. Thanks a lot. | ||
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Obamarauder
697 Posts
On April 03 2018 06:05 therealkillemall wrote: Hi all. I have been trouble against mech lately. I struggle before vipers are out. It seems to me that preventing the terran from getting a 4th base is needed. At the same time, part of the army have to stay at home to prevent hellion runbies. And the worst thing is to engage properly a mech push before vipers. Everything dies to tanks and mutalisks are not a solution once there are 3 or 4 thors. What can I do to stop this pushes before vipers? Maybe my viper timings are just late. Thanks a lot. with good macro you can hit at around 8:30 - 9:00 with a good amount of roach ravager before he can get the critical amount of tanks. of course this is also map dependent and depends greatly on the way you engage. Good creep spread with 1 spine on outer bases will defend against hellions easily. The 2nd route is to go up to 88 drones asap + 7:30 hive and play a standard game from there. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On April 03 2018 06:05 therealkillemall wrote: Hi all. I have been trouble against mech lately. I struggle before vipers are out. It seems to me that preventing the terran from getting a 4th base is needed. At the same time, part of the army have to stay at home to prevent hellion runbies. And the worst thing is to engage properly a mech push before vipers. Everything dies to tanks and mutalisks are not a solution once there are 3 or 4 thors. What can I do to stop this pushes before vipers? Maybe my viper timings are just late. Thanks a lot. Start infestation pit before hydra den (you can even skip 1 evo sometimes for even faster hive), vipers should be out early enough to stop any +2 or 2/1 timing from mech. If he pushes out earlier, just a good flank on creep should be enough. | ||
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therealkillemall
Spain30 Posts
with good macro you can hit at around 8:30 - 9:00 with a good amount of roach ravager before he can get the critical amount of tanks. of course this is also map dependent and depends greatly on the way you engage. Good creep spread with 1 spine on outer bases will defend against hellions easily. The 2nd route is to go up to 88 drones asap + 7:30 hive and play a standard game from there. It didn't occured to me that mech can be attacked up front without vipers. Thanks for the tips. Start infestation pit before hydra den (you can even skip 1 evo sometimes for even faster hive), vipers should be out early enough to stop any +2 or 2/1 timing from mech. If he pushes out earlier, just a good flank on creep should be enough. I'll also try that. Thanks a lot. | ||
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Koivusto
Finland542 Posts
Can you ever win against roach/hydra/lurker with roach/hydra/ravager? Playing against ravagers in ZvZ is one of headaches. | ||
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
On April 06 2018 01:34 Koivusto wrote: Just started playing 1v1s again. Climbed to dia3 as zerg and started losing. One major problem is zvz and lurkers. Can you ever win against roach/hydra/lurker with roach/hydra/ravager? Playing against ravagers in ZvZ is one of headaches. Or you push early so you may kill him before he gets lurkers as he has less, or you go straight to hive tech to get vipers ( and faster +3) or you go lurker yourself, or hive/vipers and later lurker with the speed, or fast broodlords, or you go roach into mutas switch. It's all about the timing, the excecution and your macro there isn't a single good way and bad ways. | ||
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Regisko
Ukraine20 Posts
I'm feeling a big pain lately, it called cannon rush into shield batteries into immortals (+disruptors). There's a chance to use corrosive biles to shut down the agression before immortals, but when they come I'm just unable to kill them - shields are recharging faster. I've tried early pool and runby - Protoss makes one cannon at home. I've tried ravagers, but they just die, in case Protoss is not 100% stupid to make Robo in front. Is there any more or less proven/optimal way/build to counter that? As sometimes I don't even need to scout, just knowing that it will come based on the player I'm playing with. Thanks in advance. | ||
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AkashSky
United States257 Posts
On April 14 2018 05:55 Regisko wrote: Dear all, I'm feeling a big pain lately, it called cannon rush into shield batteries into immortals (+disruptors). There's a chance to use corrosive biles to shut down the agression before immortals, but when they come I'm just unable to kill them - shields are recharging faster. I've tried early pool and runby - Protoss makes one cannon at home. I've tried ravagers, but they just die, in case Protoss is not 100% stupid to make Robo in front. Is there any more or less proven/optimal way/build to counter that? As sometimes I don't even need to scout, just knowing that it will come based on the player I'm playing with. Thanks in advance. You should be looking to get an economy advantage over the protoss and then win with more, less cost effective units. Why? well nothing zerg has early on can be more cost effective than immortals and shield batteries in a straight up fight (ravager biles can generate more value over time). As a result, its really important that you sneak 1, maybe 2 drones on the map before you get cannon contained so you can take some ninja bases. The protoss will almost always be on 1 base with this cheese so try to get 1 base saturation on your main and 4-8 drones at a ninja. If you stay on 1 base, you will lose the game even if the protoss can't push you. The protoss can long distance mine and you cannot cause his proxy is outside of your base. Also, going 1 base spire can be strong specifically vs the immortal follow up, but you will need a lot of queens and spines to hold your high ground. It's especially strong if you can get any amount of gas from a ninja base. | ||
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hegemony
27 Posts
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bulya
Israel386 Posts
Make sure you have the third by 3:30, and if you can put it earlier unless its something like 1 base play (the first ovie can spot if there is an expo). | ||
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
It's like playing chess. You're just taking a third when you think your opponent will simply follow his most standard build order. I feel like you guys are missing about WHY you're taking a third that fast. We need to explain why you're taking that third. What are the benefits of taking a third. Is it for more larvaes ? More economy ? Or more units ? Or perhaps a little of everything ? Although I'm not sure about the later because you can basically do the same sh.t with your 2 bases. Taking a third @ 3 min is way too early and we need to have a clear plan about why we're taking it. Personally I hate getting that third. I'd rather do it when I feel like I'd saturated my 2 bases first. It's much more solid against ladder for the most majority of time. Pros are doing that because they also know their opponents. They have a clear plan about why they want to do that. I doubt it's the case for all of us. I'm pretty sure the majority of us are facing unknown opponents. | ||
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ArtyK
France3143 Posts
On April 16 2018 09:06 bulya wrote: Vs zerg [...] you also want an early third (before 3:30, and the macro builds go for a 3rd way earlier). You can only do that while going ling bane, nothing else will allow you to protect it unless your opponent skips ling bane themselves. On April 16 2018 18:17 RaiZ wrote: I'll never understnad those zerg going for a relatively fast third. Against Z ? It's a freelose against mass lings banes. Against terrans ? I'd rather make 2 more queens and creep spread while doing a 3rd but ONLY after I've made those queens. Against protoss ? Well... If you like making spore in each base while making more drones which results in less units to defend against early pushes, then by all means be my guest. It's like playing chess. You're just taking a third when you think your opponent will simply follow his most standard build order. I feel like you guys are missing about WHY you're taking a third that fast. We need to explain why you're taking that third. What are the benefits of taking a third. Is it for more larvaes ? More economy ? Or more units ? Or perhaps a little of everything ? Although I'm not sure about the later because you can basically do the same sh.t with your 2 bases. Taking a third @ 3 min is way too early and we need to have a clear plan about why we're taking it. Personally I hate getting that third. I'd rather do it when I feel like I'd saturated my 2 bases first. It's much more solid against ladder for the most majority of time. Pros are doing that because they also know their opponents. They have a clear plan about why they want to do that. I doubt it's the case for all of us. I'm pretty sure the majority of us are facing unknown opponents. How late do you usually take it? Pros aren't doing it because they know their opponent, slowing down your larva production is just bad. In fact while it sounds counter intuitive, taking your third too late is not safe and puts you behind : - later inject on 3rd = less units for defense / less economy vs passive players - slower creep spread When i take my third at 3.00 i'm already past 16 drones per base when it finishes. So the only reasons i can think of why you would need to wait longer to be able to saturate 2 bases, are either you're overmaking army in the early game, or taking too many gases. So why are we taking the third that "fast"? For the larvaes, which translates into more economy and more units. Like i said to bulya though, in zvz it's only doable if you plan on going ling bane | ||
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
On April 16 2018 20:10 ArtyK wrote: How late do you usually take it? Pros aren't doing it because they know their opponent, slowing down your larva production is just bad. In fact while it sounds counter intuitive, taking your third too late is not safe and puts you behind : - later inject on 3rd = less units for defense / less economy vs passive players - slower creep spread When i take my third at 3.00 i'm already past 16 drones per base when it finishes. So the only reasons i can think of why you would need to wait longer to be able to saturate 2 bases, are either you're overmaking army in the early game, or taking too many gases. So why are we taking the third that "fast"? For the larvaes, which translates into more economy and more units. Like i said to bulya though, in zvz it's only doable if you plan on going ling bane If we assume you're taking 2 drones off gas after speed, and you take a 3rd @ 3min, and you didn't skip a single inject, and you make 2 queens afterwards, then you won't have enough minerals to transform all of the larvaes to drones. Which means it's also counter intuitive. For the record, I usually take it after making the 2 queens and converted all my larvaes from 1st inject to drones. But I can also take it earlier just in case I don't want that reaper or hellions fucking me up. | ||
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ArtyK
France3143 Posts
On April 16 2018 23:31 RaiZ wrote: If we assume you're taking 2 drones off gas after speed, and you take a 3rd @ 3min, and you didn't skip a single inject, and you make 2 queens afterwards, then you won't have enough minerals to transform all of the larvaes to drones. Which means it's also counter intuitive. For the record, I usually take it after making the 2 queens and converted all my larvaes from 1st inject to drones. But I can also take it earlier just in case I don't want that reaper or hellions fucking me up. So you take it at like 3.30? Not uncommon but it's the latest acceptable timing. Past that it just means the 3rd might not even be finished when real pressure comes your way like hellbats. Trading an earlier third for more drones doesn't really help vs anything as you'll be oversaturated and unable to make use of all the extra income | ||
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jackacea
66 Posts
do you guys know some fun builds and compositions to play against Terran? I'm sitting at 22% winrate vs T so it doesnt have to be very effective, just enjoyable to play for a change. | ||
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Haku
Germany550 Posts
On April 17 2018 01:55 jackacea wrote: hey all, do you guys know some fun builds and compositions to play against Terran? I'm sitting at 22% winrate vs T so it doesnt have to be very effective, just enjoyable to play for a change. Depends on what you mean by fun. What league are you kn? I think a 1 Base Ravager Allin can be fun: https://sc2swarm.com/zerg-vs-terran/soos-1-base-ravager-all-in-zvt/ Viable in all Leagues but if your opponent SCV Scouts its basically over for you. Nydus Roach Play on 2 Bases can be fun. Both builds are viable but Allins. A fun composition could be Standard Ling/Bane but with mass Dropperlords to just destroy his economy non-stop. So like i said, depends a bit on your league, but if you just wanna have fun, be creative! You can get to masters with basically anything if thats your goal lol | ||
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jackacea
66 Posts
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AbouSV
Germany1278 Posts
Personally, I still play my ZvT as ling-bane-corruptor, unless I see too many tanks. Ignoring turrets and taking down CCs with corruptors is still as fun :D Also, many terrans don't remake enough medivacs (corruptors gun them down pretty quickly in fights), and end up over-stiming. | ||
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AllHailLulu
16 Posts
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Ryndika
1489 Posts
I used to do the stephano roach stuff long time ago but now protosses start with gateway and it's spooky. | ||
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