EPTVs Bio. vs mech. Does not seem to matter.
What has changed that its viable and whats the reason behind this playstyle? Is it superior to mech and bio than other playstyles?
The LotV Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 56
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Haku
Germany550 Posts
Vs Bio. vs mech. Does not seem to matter. What has changed that its viable and whats the reason behind this playstyle? Is it superior to mech and bio than other playstyles? | ||
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Kerdinand
Germany113 Posts
It is pretty much you go-to composition in most scenarios now, like MMM is for terran. | ||
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bulya
Israel386 Posts
Its quite a defensive way to play the game, even though with some vipers you can break terrans that are massing tanks with that. But most of the zergs aim for ultras with that defensive play. The difference between mech and bio are the transitions and the upgrades. Vs mech you want swarm hosts with that, and vipers later. Carapace lose value if the terrean stopped (or didn't ) making cyclones while melee and missile are important. On other hand, if its bio then carapace is the ultimate upgrade. And either vipers or Ultras are the transition, you can go for both. Yes it is very common. There are still players like Snute that play roach ravager infestor, and muta ling bane still viable so more aggressive players prefer that. But the ultra lovers go for hydra ling bane rather then muta ling bane. | ||
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AllHailLulu
16 Posts
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
I've been playing like before patch and have 0% winrate vs protoss | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Umuryum
Turkey35 Posts
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bretfart
114 Posts
On November 16 2017 16:44 Umuryum wrote: What is the common style against mech? You've got different options: 1) Swarmhosts: Swarmhosts in general are very effective against mech. Combine them with nydus worms and some protection. 2) Hydra / Viper: Use Vipers for blinding clouds on siege tanks and abducts to pull the mech units into your hydras from safe distance 3) Broodlords: Use Broodlords to kill your opponent with corruptors, infestors and some grouznd units. | ||
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
On November 08 2017 19:07 AllHailLulu wrote: Guys, shell any zerg add armor upgrade in zvt vs mech ? Or even +1 on armor is not important in late ? And does anybody add +3 missile attack for hydra in zvp or everyone go to melle attack for broodlords and banes ? Ty Armor is important if the unit you face have fast attack speed, like cyclon/carrier/bio or it needs one more shot to kill the unit (zealots with +1 2 shots lings, while they need 3 shots normally, if you have +1 armor they need 3 shots again). +1 melee is the most important on ZvP because it add +2and +2 vs light to baneling, missile attack is cool, but you must think : does +1.87 dps for all your army is better or getting 4 hydras with the 200 gas. 4 hydras with +2 is +104.6 DPS on your army, With +1.87 per hydras, you need more than 56 hydras to get more than 104.6 DPS So it doesn't really worth it, unless you're maxed and you can't increase the number of hydras. | ||
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Be9he
8 Posts
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ArtyK
France3143 Posts
On November 18 2017 22:27 Be9he wrote: Hi everyone. I have a question: how to counter the late game terran mech? I'd like to explain better. It seems that the combination of tanks, thors and hellbats is really hard to engage and counter, especially while libs/vikings/ravens support it. Add mules to the equation and results are clear. Someone have any suggestion? I've tried a lot of different strategies but it seems that in the really late game, cost/benefit of mechs units is too powerful. Thanks for your replies Hydra + 7-8 vipers is pretty good, can abduct vikings/liberators/thors/tanks, blind cloud tanks/turrets/PFs to snipe bases. I usually add 4-5 ultras when i can to protect the hydras from hellbats when engaging. Also pretty good vs tanks once they reach them obviously. Hydra bane is safer vs certain timings with hellbats but it delays your hive, so find what works best for you. Then theres the swarm host option which you can abuse but it makes you vulnerable once the locusts die. I don't use them so i can't help for this particular style, but it can be really effective. Hopefully someone else will know. When you're defending, always always try to gain as much time as possible, and always flank, on creep if possible. Being on his side of the map once you have a sizeable force is a good way to delay any push, and deny him more expands. Keep moving around, abduct vulnerable units, and snipe PFs using blinding cloud, but don't overcommit if you're not sure of what he has. Don't wanna lose 15 hydras to a tank volley. Meanwhile you're trading while getting higher tech, and once your ultra den is done you can be a bit more adventurous as you need to free supply for them. Goal vs mech is usually to starve them out, not kill them outright, but it's easier said than done depending on the map. Since the thor buffs i'm not a fan of broodlord transition, as most people also make vikings before that anyway. If he makes so many that your vipers can barely abduct without dying, you can throw some parasitic bomb instead and go recharge energy. Their composition will tell you what to go for after a big trade, broodlords vs low AA count, ultras vs lots of hellbats, hydras vs low tank count... | ||
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Be9he
8 Posts
On November 19 2017 01:48 ArtyK wrote: Hydra + 7-8 vipers is pretty good, can abduct vikings/liberators/thors/tanks, blind cloud tanks/turrets/PFs to snipe bases. I usually add 4-5 ultras when i can to protect the hydras from hellbats when engaging. Also pretty good vs tanks once they reach them obviously. Hydra bane is safer vs certain timings with hellbats but it delays your hive, so find what works best for you. Then theres the swarm host option which you can abuse but it makes you vulnerable once the locusts die. I don't use them so i can't help for this particular style, but it can be really effective. Hopefully someone else will know. When you're defending, always always try to gain as much time as possible, and always flank, on creep if possible. Being on his side of the map once you have a sizeable force is a good way to delay any push, and deny him more expands. Keep moving around, abduct vulnerable units, and snipe PFs using blinding cloud, but don't overcommit if you're not sure of what he has. Don't wanna lose 15 hydras to a tank volley. Meanwhile you're trading while getting higher tech, and once your ultra den is done you can be a bit more adventurous as you need to free supply for them. Goal vs mech is usually to starve them out, not kill them outright, but it's easier said than done depending on the map. Since the thor buffs i'm not a fan of broodlord transition, as most people also make vikings before that anyway. If he makes so many that your vipers can barely abduct without dying, you can throw some parasitic bomb instead and go recharge energy. Their composition will tell you what to go for after a big trade, broodlords vs low AA count, ultras vs lots of hellbats, hydras vs low tank count... Thank you, really useful! I agree with what you wrote, right now is the matchup I have more problems. I think the Thor+viking antiair is right now brutal, i'll try with your advice. Thanks again | ||
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redloser
Korea (South)1721 Posts
So against what P composition should you go roach hydra, not hydra ling bane? | ||
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bulya
Israel386 Posts
On November 29 2017 12:18 redloser wrote: Hydra ling bane became the standard composition, but still I see some pros playing roach hydra here and there in ZvP. So against what P composition should you go roach hydra, not hydra ling bane? Hydra ling bane gradually becomes less popular vs Protoss, simply because with the new chrono a Protoss can get to storm way quicker then before. Once they have storm hydra ling bane begins to expire unless you can hit them in several places at once. Collosus styles are also popular which make hydra ling bane not that strong. On the other hand the lurker got a buff (can get there quicker, and get an upgrade on Hive), so roach hydra is an ok way to get to lurkers. Some were playing this way even though hydra ling bane was that popular, so its not something completely new. Simply a buff to those who opened roaches, and a nerf for those who opened banes. | ||
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Dopella
3 Posts
How do I hold an early mass adept push? The problem here is I don't always have enough gas for banelings, but I'm not too keen on taking early gases just in case. How do I recognize it before it hits? | ||
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bulya
Israel386 Posts
Scouting, and pulling some drones on time is key (3 drones at first to slow the bunker, more drones later to get surround on the marines. once the pool is done you can switch into lings. Regarding adepts, if they don't have glaves then queen ling can also hold it, but if they do have glaves then banes or roaches are a must. Even on pro level glaved adepts won't hit you before 4:30, so putting a 3:50 bane nest or a RW can help. If you didn't scout then making a 4:00 RW and about 8 roaches is important, because of not only adepts, DTs into archons can also hit you. If you went for ovie speed then you should know its coming (twilight, no robo, 3 gates, and he mostly have adepts) so making a bane nest or RW on time as well as skipping early spores so that the investment into the ovie speed pays for itself. Most builds take into account that adepts can hit quite early and have some sort of preparation (or reaction to scouting info) for adepts, as well as the other early protoss aggression. | ||
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
On November 19 2017 01:48 ArtyK wrote: Hydra + 7-8 vipers is pretty good, can abduct vikings/liberators/thors/tanks, blind cloud tanks/turrets/PFs to snipe bases. I usually add 4-5 ultras when i can to protect the hydras from hellbats when engaging. Also pretty good vs tanks once they reach them obviously. Hydra bane is safer vs certain timings with hellbats but it delays your hive, so find what works best for you. Then theres the swarm host option which you can abuse but it makes you vulnerable once the locusts die. I don't use them so i can't help for this particular style, but it can be really effective. Hopefully someone else will know. When you're defending, always always try to gain as much time as possible, and always flank, on creep if possible. Being on his side of the map once you have a sizeable force is a good way to delay any push, and deny him more expands. Keep moving around, abduct vulnerable units, and snipe PFs using blinding cloud, but don't overcommit if you're not sure of what he has. Don't wanna lose 15 hydras to a tank volley. Meanwhile you're trading while getting higher tech, and once your ultra den is done you can be a bit more adventurous as you need to free supply for them. Goal vs mech is usually to starve them out, not kill them outright, but it's easier said than done depending on the map. Since the thor buffs i'm not a fan of broodlord transition, as most people also make vikings before that anyway. If he makes so many that your vipers can barely abduct without dying, you can throw some parasitic bomb instead and go recharge energy. Their composition will tell you what to go for after a big trade, broodlords vs low AA count, ultras vs lots of hellbats, hydras vs low tank count... Could you provide us a few replays ? I've fixed my ZvP but i've trouble vs mech now. | ||
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Dopella
3 Posts
On December 07 2017 05:30 bulya wrote: ... Thanks a huge load, you're the man! | ||
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ArtyK
France3143 Posts
On December 07 2017 07:36 Tyrhanius wrote: Could you provide us a few replays ? I've fixed my ZvP but i've trouble vs mech now. To be honest my non swarmhost style is having a tough time lately as well. I actually don't have any ZvMech worthy of demonstrating my gameplan in the last patch (i play random, so 3 times as less ZvT material :p) Closest thing i could find is 1.5 month old and it only started ressembling a normal ZvMech around 20 minutes in x) We both lost 80 workers that game and the start was so nonsensical that my brain made me took expands in a similar nonsical way, don't judge :p http://drop.sc/replay/5961301 Once we get to the lategame it's important to note how my army is almost always moving around trying to find weak spots and force him to keep track of me. I also try to kill expands and not his army to starve him out. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23570 Posts
One of the best guides I've ever seen, so cool to see something more advanced instead of all the complete beginner guides. Can't wait for more Lambo guides. | ||
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