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I have two question about zvt
vs mech
i open 3 hatch before pool, gain control with few lings, go for roach if i see heavy commit in hellion harass or just stay on ling bane tech.
I gain macro advantage easly - 5-6 base vs 3 base terran usually. But I totally fail the composition vs mech
tried:
swarmhost -> units get killed before they reach ground by thors
broodlords -> get killed by thors and hellbats
Usually mix them with low tech units.
I read I should add vipers, how do I use them? Why using infestors?
The other question is vs bio.
Again, i manage to control mid game, then when terran manage to place 3rd base it starts the multidrop and I can't defend. What kind of units should I use? Muta ling bane is still viable?
Feel like hydra bane is too slow to move across the map..
any tips?
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if your units are not working against mech it's probably your macro and engagements that are wrong. swarmhosts and broodlords are both reasonable choices against mech. vipers can be used in any way you choose: blinding clouds on tanks, abducts to kill tanks, thors or vikings, and parasitic bomb if you are facing a very large number of vikings. in midgame against mech you do not need anything more than viper hydra or viper hydra roach to attempt to trade effectively.
your goal is to trade and then tech switch based on what terran has left. if you kill his anti air you can go into broods or sometimes muta (muta is risky and unreliable though). if you kill his ground you can make ultra hydra ling. queens and infestors are good support against air only if you can control them well. queens transfuse ultras, brood lords and vipers
when using swarmhosts you start by harassing his base (killing addons and factories/starports) and then move them around to hit weak spots. if you make SH and he pushes you MUST defend with locusts, if they are on cooldown you buy time until you can engage with army + locusts, even sacrificing a base if necessary
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On December 23 2017 09:16 brickrd wrote:
if your units are not working against mech it's probably your macro and engagements that are wrong. swarmhosts and broodlords are both reasonable choices against mech. vipers can be used in any way you choose: blinding clouds on tanks, abducts to kill tanks, thors or vikings, and parasitic bomb if you are facing a very large number of vikings. in midgame against mech you do not need anything more than viper hydra or viper hydra roach to attempt to trade effectively.
your goal is to trade and then tech switch based on what terran has left. if you kill his anti air you can go into broods or sometimes muta (muta is risky and unreliable though). if you kill his ground you can make ultra hydra ling. queens and infestors are good support against air only if you can control them well. queens transfuse ultras, brood lords and vipers
when using swarmhosts you start by harassing his base (killing addons and factories/starports) and then move them around to hit weak spots. if you make SH and he pushes you MUST defend with locusts, if they are on cooldown you buy time until you can engage with army + locusts, even sacrificing a base if necessary
everytime i have huge macro advantage (like i have half map and he is on 3 bases).
my problem is everything i throw at him gets killed with 0 damage done.
last time i had maxed broodlord swarmhost and he just killed everything with hellbat thors and vikings. Half locusts are dead while flyng, when they land toghter with broodlings they get melted by hellbats.
Never tried hydra, are they really good?
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Start infestation pit, 1/1, hydra den (in that order) while droning up to 70 on 4 bases. Make only roach/hydra after that. Hive done -> all gas into vipers. Hit the first timing when vipers have full energy. Start spire after attack, take a base or 2 more, drone up and go for a brood lord attack next.
Behind that you should be getting 3/3 and all tech you can afford (2nd spire for upgrades, ultra cavern, crack)
Eventually you'll just win enough fights in a row to starve them.
In longer games, I also do a lot of attacks with roaches on satelite bases while poking the main army with abducts.
Keep in mind that as long as you are killing tanks and thors, you are ahead. The goal is to trade and rebuild constantly. One bad fight means that they can push onto creep and go for the kill before you have time to remax
Roach hydra with good upgrades beats all mech units but tanks. You need to abduct exposed ones in fights and blinding cloud big clumps. When they attack, clouds are also good on thors that you have a concave over.
If they have a lot of vikings, parasitic bomb them first and then abduct whatever you can before losing vipers.
Beforr your viper attack, keep your roaches and creep queens in position to defend hellion runbies. Later on in the game, spine and spore up 3rd/4th/5th/... /nth against counters while fighting out on the map.
I'll post a few replays when I'm home.
REPLAYS (D1/M3 level, around 4600mmr)
http://sc2replaystats.com/replay/6091821 - textbook game vs mech
http://sc2replaystats.com/replay/6091838 - mech player dies to first RHV attack, I later start trading units to starve him out after 10 minutes
http://sc2replaystats.com/replay/6091877 - I get a huge lead after the early game, but obviously merz is a much better player so it takes me a while to end the game
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Do you guys know why aren't pros using vipers in ZvP anymore? I understand lurkers are all the rage now and that they have replaced banelings, but some games in Leipzig left me scratching my head. For example, why no vipers against colossus? In the final game of Elazer vs Neeb, I had the impression Elazer was seeing the colossus for the first time.
Similarly, in the crazy late game of Showtime vs Serral game3, Serral never produced vipers to abduct motherships and carriers. I know they are susceptible to feedbacks, but they also were back in Hots days (or just 6 months ago) when they were used frequently.
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I heard isn't that good using speelcasters. So maybe he just doesnt wanna use them.
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i think you can still use vipers against skytoss but you have to have really really strong caster control because of the templar threat ej mentioned. because of the feedback risk it's probably only worth it if you have a huge bank. i think they're still fine against colossus openers, like if protoss goes mass colossus before templar archives, but i don't know how common that is.
in hots when going roach hydra viper against colossus even back then you had to take a fight around the third base before templar tech or you would just get feedbacked then too
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the patch has been out for a few days, can anyone point me to a video where a pro/content creator offers some answers to how to change up the mid-game in order to not die/get behind because of the hydra-upgrade nerf?
i played some ladder, and really felt the difference
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On February 02 2018 18:50 Geo.Rion wrote:
the patch has been out for a few days, can anyone point me to a video where a pro/content creator offers some answers to how to change up the mid-game in order to not die/get behind because of the hydra-upgrade nerf?
i played some ladder, and really felt the difference
Creep spread and defensive hydras until your speed finishes. Almost always get range first, I find also going roach ravager into hydra is better than ling bane into hydra. Aggressive roach play allows you to play with less pressure, delay his third and don't attack without hydra speed unless you are vastly ahead. They should still be a core part of your army you just have to adjust how you get to it
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On February 02 2018 18:50 Geo.Rion wrote:
the patch has been out for a few days, can anyone point me to a video where a pro/content creator offers some answers to how to change up the mid-game in order to not die/get behind because of the hydra-upgrade nerf?
i played some ladder, and really felt the difference
For videos is say watch the recent IEM vods good mechanics is usually a sound strategy. Using your lings more early game is good too. Hydras dps hasn't changed so maybe your early/mid game needs work?
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
Can I still 3 base ling bane bust and make master league
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On February 11 2018 07:12 KelsierSC wrote:
Can I still 3 base ling bane bust and make master league
You can make litterally any army unit and get to masters
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On February 11 2018 07:12 KelsierSC wrote:
Can I still 3 base ling bane bust and make master league
Just assuming you can execute it well and alter how hard you go, definitely.
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Why don't Zerg players spread creep nearly as much in ZvP or ZvZ as they do in ZvT?
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On February 13 2018 03:34 geokilla wrote:
Why don't Zerg players spread creep nearly as much in ZvP or ZvZ as they do in ZvT?
Because you can't afford to mass queens early vs Z or P.
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Hey guys,
I'm a (filthy) Terran player but I was wondering if you guys could grace me with some simple Zerg build orders. I play Zerg every now and then for fun, so I have a bit of familiarity of how they operate, but some concrete openings would be much appreciated. Especially versus Protoss, but I won't be picky.
And on that note, what do you guys usually build in terms of army composition against Protoss? Is Zergling/Hydralisk/Lurker any good?
Thanks guys!
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On February 18 2018 15:22 Frudgey wrote:
Hey guys,
I'm a (filthy) Terran player but I was wondering if you guys could grace me with some simple Zerg build orders. I play Zerg every now and then for fun, so I have a bit of familiarity of how they operate, but some concrete openings would be much appreciated. Especially versus Protoss, but I won't be picky.
And on that note, what do you guys usually build in terms of army composition against Protoss? Is Zergling/Hydralisk/Lurker any good?
Thanks guys!
![[image loading]](https://i.redd.it/1xhyp77tpf101.png)
Hydra/ling into lurkers is standard vs toss now
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Standard macro build is
17 hatch
18 gas
17 pool
31 hatch
Compositions are usually
vP ling hydra lurker
vZ Roaches or Mutas
vT ling bane hydra
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Thanks for the quick responses! Much appreciated!
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EPT
