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The LotV Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 48

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
November 26 2016 09:22 GMT
#941
On November 26 2016 17:15 Ej_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 26 2016 11:43 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:
as a protoss, what am i supposed to do now? always 2-base all in? im not one to balance, but this patch has present some serious problems. i know im only diamond but whenever i play a zerg its pretty much an auto loss. i dont get what to do

carriers. I am not kidding. Carriers are very strong now and void rays actually got a speed buff which makes them 100% more annoying.
If you don't believe in the multitasking to set Z behind before hydras are out, just play skytoss.

I'm yet to see a P opt for the lategame. What's your go to response right now? Still queen hydra viper/infestor?
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
November 26 2016 09:58 GMT
#942
On November 26 2016 18:22 Probe1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 26 2016 17:15 Ej_ wrote:
On November 26 2016 11:43 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:
as a protoss, what am i supposed to do now? always 2-base all in? im not one to balance, but this patch has present some serious problems. i know im only diamond but whenever i play a zerg its pretty much an auto loss. i dont get what to do

carriers. I am not kidding. Carriers are very strong now and void rays actually got a speed buff which makes them 100% more annoying.
If you don't believe in the multitasking to set Z behind before hydras are out, just play skytoss.

I'm yet to see a P opt for the lategame. What's your go to response right now? Still queen hydra viper/infestor?

supposedly you can abduct them into neural/spore, but I haven't yet played vs a macro skytoss
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
bulya
Profile Joined February 2016
Israel386 Posts
November 26 2016 11:59 GMT
#943
I played a game vs skytoss, I wasn't good against it, but its even harder now.

Carriers melt my army, and carriers means I must get the carapace upgrade which I usually skip vs P.
I tried queen hydra because I though there will be a switch to robo tech after the first few stargate units and started greedy, but I guess had to get a spire/infestors/vipers (at least 1 of the 3, may be 2), even though I was ahead in eco.
KeksX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany3634 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-26 16:01:10
November 26 2016 16:00 GMT
#944
On November 26 2016 18:58 Ej_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 26 2016 18:22 Probe1 wrote:
On November 26 2016 17:15 Ej_ wrote:
On November 26 2016 11:43 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:
as a protoss, what am i supposed to do now? always 2-base all in? im not one to balance, but this patch has present some serious problems. i know im only diamond but whenever i play a zerg its pretty much an auto loss. i dont get what to do

carriers. I am not kidding. Carriers are very strong now and void rays actually got a speed buff which makes them 100% more annoying.
If you don't believe in the multitasking to set Z behind before hydras are out, just play skytoss.

I'm yet to see a P opt for the lategame. What's your go to response right now? Still queen hydra viper/infestor?

supposedly you can abduct them into neural/spore, but I haven't yet played vs a macro skytoss


The thing is there is no such thing as "macro skytoss", at least not for me - it's macro HT + sky that is killing me.

No idea how to beat that - as I said earlier I just try to bust Protoss before that or die trying. :/
Swisslink
Profile Joined March 2011
2958 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-26 20:03:21
November 26 2016 19:46 GMT
#945
I am totally lost against Terran now with the new tanks, tbh.
Is Muta/Ling/Bling even viable atm? (I thought it would get better because of the liberator nerf.) The Terrans I am struggling the most against are those that go for a rather early Marine+Tank push. I'm always getting into a hard contain with a few tanks + marines and if I decide to move out, my army just melts against the tanks.

Might give Roach/Ravager a try soon, but I think there is still a timing I can't defend it.

edit: okay, definitely totally lost. I have no idea what to do in ZvT atm. Whatever they do, they just kill me as soon as tanks are involved.
GaliX
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany380 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-27 00:28:41
November 27 2016 00:01 GMT
#946
On November 27 2016 04:46 Swisslink wrote:
I am totally lost against Terran now with the new tanks, tbh.
Is Muta/Ling/Bling even viable atm? (I thought it would get better because of the liberator nerf.) The Terrans I am struggling the most against are those that go for a rather early Marine+Tank push. I'm always getting into a hard contain with a few tanks + marines and if I decide to move out, my army just melts against the tanks.

Might give Roach/Ravager a try soon, but I think there is still a timing I can't defend it.

edit: okay, definitely totally lost. I have no idea what to do in ZvT atm. Whatever they do, they just kill me as soon as tanks are involved.


Just do what all zergs do on ladder on most maps right now... Rush for Hydra ling and it's basically over if you handle the harass before probably... It's pretty broken in my eyes...
bulya
Profile Joined February 2016
Israel386 Posts
November 27 2016 00:26 GMT
#947
On November 27 2016 09:01 GaliX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 27 2016 01:00 KeksX wrote:
If you don't believe in the multitasking to set Z behind before hydras are out, just play skytoss.

I'm yet to see a P opt for the lategame. What's your go to response right now? Still queen hydra viper/infestor?

supposedly you can abduct them into neural/spore, but I haven't yet played vs a macro skytoss[/QUOTE]

The thing is there is no such thing as "macro skytoss", at least not for me - it's macro HT + sky that is killing me.

No idea how to beat that - as I said earlier I just try to bust Protoss before that or die trying. :/[/QUOTE]


Just do what all zergs do on ladder on most maps right now... Rush for Hydra ling and it's basically over if you handle the harass before probably... It's pretty broken in my eyes...[/QUOTE]

I faced skytoss a few times today, and I can't beat carriers with hydras (they were well upgraded).
I lost a game even though I was ahead in supply and eco, simply because the carriers are harder to beat now.

The P can either harass (which was the meta before the changes), or sit quiet and turtle to skytoss. The second option is the hard one currently.

I'm cannon rushed quite often recently, which shows that many P players don't really know what to do...
GaliX
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany380 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-27 00:45:12
November 27 2016 00:43 GMT
#948
On November 27 2016 09:26 bulya wrote:
I'm cannon rushed quite often recently, which shows that many P players don't really know what to do...

I can understand it... I am at like 20% winrate against zerg right now @ master level as a protoss...

Either I win by going Carrier rush which is pretty easy and lame to play kinda or I lose by going every thing else without getting super lucky... I mean the new hydras just bust throught you like nothing even if you get early Colossi with disrupters... It's pretty frustrating to play tbh.

Even early bane-ling all-ins can be hard to hold. Especially the one with overlord speed and drop...
HelpMeGetBetter
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
United States766 Posts
November 27 2016 02:59 GMT
#949
On November 27 2016 09:43 GaliX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 27 2016 09:26 bulya wrote:
I'm cannon rushed quite often recently, which shows that many P players don't really know what to do...

I can understand it... I am at like 20% winrate against zerg right now @ master level as a protoss...

Either I win by going Carrier rush which is pretty easy and lame to play kinda or I lose by going every thing else without getting super lucky... I mean the new hydras just bust throught you like nothing even if you get early Colossi with disrupters... It's pretty frustrating to play tbh.

Even early bane-ling all-ins can be hard to hold. Especially the one with overlord speed and drop...


so why bother making Roaches now when you can just win with all Hydra? I do not understand this patch at all...
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-27 05:01:30
November 27 2016 05:00 GMT
#950
I've never been good at mid game pushes because my game sense is pretty bad and it's hard to tell if I'm far ahead enough or not. So, I am used to winning late game but now that just isn't happening. Im 2-10 vs Terran this season so far and the two I did win tried bio.

Hydra/Viper/BL/Corruptor ISNT ENOUGH to crack turtle terran for a Diamond league player like me, is there any other way? I'm seriously at a loss right now, it seems impossible.
Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
IcemanAsi
Profile Joined March 2011
Israel681 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-27 07:22:13
November 27 2016 07:17 GMT
#951
On November 27 2016 14:00 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
I've never been good at mid game pushes because my game sense is pretty bad and it's hard to tell if I'm far ahead enough or not. So, I am used to winning late game but now that just isn't happening. Im 2-10 vs Terran this season so far and the two I did win tried bio.

Hydra/Viper/BL/Corruptor ISNT ENOUGH to crack turtle terran for a Diamond league player like me, is there any other way? I'm seriously at a loss right now, it seems impossible.


Why even make BL/Corruptor against turtle mech?

Take six bases, max out on hydra viper with about six-eight vipers, then yank and cloud everything again and again. Remember cloud shuts down PF and keeps injects up so when he kills your army you just insta-max again on hydra viper.
I haven't lost once to late game mech since I started doing this.

It's actually bio I'm having much more trouble with now, probably because I'm over commingling to muta in the mid-game, so I can't go tier 3 effectively, you need ultras+infestors again, just ultra ling isn't enough, and my infestor micro isn't exactly sharp ( who even made infestors in the last year?! )
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
November 27 2016 10:20 GMT
#952
On November 27 2016 14:00 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
I've never been good at mid game pushes because my game sense is pretty bad and it's hard to tell if I'm far ahead enough or not. So, I am used to winning late game but now that just isn't happening. Im 2-10 vs Terran this season so far and the two I did win tried bio.

Hydra/Viper/BL/Corruptor ISNT ENOUGH to crack turtle terran for a Diamond league player like me, is there any other way? I'm seriously at a loss right now, it seems impossible.

here's some reps from a slow diamond player shitting on diamond and master mechers:
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6879476 (my standard 3hatch spire opening into hydra/viper/MASS EXPAND once I scout it's mech)
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6879481 (this kind of opens stupid cuz of the ghosts, but the rule is the same hydra/viper/hatchery/ is your composition and you beat every non bio unit)
(i didn't have any more games vs remotely decent mech players)

test map replays here:
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6879484 (here I die to a mech timing, but hydralisks resurrect me)
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6879485 (here I fuck up and lose to the 200/200 push, but then win, because of the bank+mech immobility)
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6879518 (here I get behind significantly in the early game, but hydralisk good unit)
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6879519 (again I'm behind in the early after losing 3rd base, but hydra/viper with SH harass brings me back. The guy later destroyed me every next game after doing the same push, but transitioning into bio)

tl;dw: make enough hydras to defend pre-viper push, then make only hydra/viper for the rest of the game

"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
OnlyZerg
Profile Joined October 2015
5 Posts
November 27 2016 10:37 GMT
#953
Hi, i am a Diamond player with have some struggle vs Protoss. I try Bling,Hydra and have a question, witch hydra upgrate first, speed or range?
loginn
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
France815 Posts
November 27 2016 14:11 GMT
#954
On November 27 2016 19:37 OnlyZerg wrote:
Hi, i am a Diamond player with have some struggle vs Protoss. I try Bling,Hydra and have a question, witch hydra upgrate first, speed or range?

Range first. Speed is nice, but range adds so much to hydras
Stephano, Taking skill to the bank since IPL3. Also Lucifron and FBH
IcemanAsi
Profile Joined March 2011
Israel681 Posts
November 27 2016 15:05 GMT
#955
My biggest problem with mech so far isn't the late game ( hydra viper FTW ) but the correct response after I scout the reactor factory at the front. Against 2-1-1 you know you can pretty much skip units until 4:30, but here they can come at you with just a few helions, they can go for hellbats, they can go for helion banshee or even a mine drop.
Even if I get a scout in and see the two factories knowing what they are exactly going for and how safe am I is turning out to be very diffcult.

Anyone got a good tip on scouting the mech opening deviations and best responses?

bulya
Profile Joined February 2016
Israel386 Posts
November 27 2016 15:48 GMT
#956
On November 28 2016 00:05 IcemanAsi wrote:
My biggest problem with mech so far isn't the late game ( hydra viper FTW ) but the correct response after I scout the reactor factory at the front. Against 2-1-1 you know you can pretty much skip units until 4:30, but here they can come at you with just a few helions, they can go for hellbats, they can go for helion banshee or even a mine drop.
Even if I get a scout in and see the two factories knowing what they are exactly going for and how safe am I is turning out to be very diffcult.

Anyone got a good tip on scouting the mech opening deviations and best responses?


I simply mass queens from the early on (even if it costs me some drones).
Queen ling is enough to stop the early 2-1-1, and mass queen is what you really need for the hellion, hellbat, cylcone, or any mix of those. (may be some lings in the mix if its hellions)

The only early pushes which catch me off-guard is liberator tank 2 base pushes. But they come way later then a 2-1-1 or hellbats (about 7-8 minute compared to 3.5 - 5 minute).
I guess the response to those pushes is ravagers, unlike ling bane or hydras which are the go to depends upon what I scout.
Its about identifying the terran goes for that which is a bit tricky.
mCon.Hephaistas
Profile Joined May 2014
Netherlands891 Posts
November 30 2016 08:48 GMT
#957
It's weird, for some reason I have massive troubles playing vs bio after the patch, went from my best matchup to my worst.
bulya
Profile Joined February 2016
Israel386 Posts
November 30 2016 11:40 GMT
#958
On November 30 2016 17:48 mCon.Hephaistas wrote:
It's weird, for some reason I have massive troubles playing vs bio after the patch, went from my best matchup to my worst.

What has changed?
The map pool? The builds of your terran opponents?

May be you play people who lost a lot of MMR due to the new patch... (I lost about 200 MMR because I wanted to make new builds which involve the new SH, and on the way lost to many cheeses which people threw out on me on the new maps).

If you play the roach ravager style vs bio I think its power is less effective without infestors.
I switched to ling bane before the patch so the patch didn't effect my play vs bio that much (banes even got buffed in the mid game).
Aocowns
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway6070 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-30 14:07:17
November 30 2016 13:09 GMT
#959
are hydra timings supposed to win against carrier rushes off of 2 oracles? cus i feel like they arent and we're stuck in retarded rush hive games again

EDIT: what happens to the tiny carrier fucks once you neural the bigboi carrier?
I'm a salt-lord and hater of mech and ForGG, don't take me seriously, it's just my salt-humour speaking i swear. |KadaverBB best TL gaoler| |~IdrA's #1 fan~| SetGuitarsToKill and Duckk are my martyr heroes |
Aocowns
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway6070 Posts
December 01 2016 12:23 GMT
#960
how do people play standard ZvZs these days, do they go straight roach hydra? cus i keep losing to roach hydra with roach ravager and its pissing me off
I'm a salt-lord and hater of mech and ForGG, don't take me seriously, it's just my salt-humour speaking i swear. |KadaverBB best TL gaoler| |~IdrA's #1 fan~| SetGuitarsToKill and Duckk are my martyr heroes |
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