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On November 26 2016 17:15 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2016 11:43 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:as a protoss, what am i supposed to do now? always 2-base all in? im not one to balance, but this patch has present some serious problems. i know im only diamond but whenever i play a zerg its pretty much an auto loss. i dont get what to do  carriers. I am not kidding. Carriers are very strong now and void rays actually got a speed buff which makes them 100% more annoying. If you don't believe in the multitasking to set Z behind before hydras are out, just play skytoss.
I'm yet to see a P opt for the lategame. What's your go to response right now? Still queen hydra viper/infestor?
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On November 26 2016 18:22 Probe1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2016 17:15 Ej_ wrote:On November 26 2016 11:43 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:as a protoss, what am i supposed to do now? always 2-base all in? im not one to balance, but this patch has present some serious problems. i know im only diamond but whenever i play a zerg its pretty much an auto loss. i dont get what to do carriers. I am not kidding. Carriers are very strong now and void rays actually got a speed buff which makes them 100% more annoying. If you don't believe in the multitasking to set Z behind before hydras are out, just play skytoss. I'm yet to see a P opt for the lategame. What's your go to response right now? Still queen hydra viper/infestor?
supposedly you can abduct them into neural/spore, but I haven't yet played vs a macro skytoss
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I played a game vs skytoss, I wasn't good against it, but its even harder now.
Carriers melt my army, and carriers means I must get the carapace upgrade which I usually skip vs P.
I tried queen hydra because I though there will be a switch to robo tech after the first few stargate units and started greedy, but I guess had to get a spire/infestors/vipers (at least 1 of the 3, may be 2), even though I was ahead in eco.
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On November 26 2016 18:58 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2016 18:22 Probe1 wrote:On November 26 2016 17:15 Ej_ wrote:On November 26 2016 11:43 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:as a protoss, what am i supposed to do now? always 2-base all in? im not one to balance, but this patch has present some serious problems. i know im only diamond but whenever i play a zerg its pretty much an auto loss. i dont get what to do carriers. I am not kidding. Carriers are very strong now and void rays actually got a speed buff which makes them 100% more annoying. If you don't believe in the multitasking to set Z behind before hydras are out, just play skytoss. I'm yet to see a P opt for the lategame. What's your go to response right now? Still queen hydra viper/infestor? supposedly you can abduct them into neural/spore, but I haven't yet played vs a macro skytoss
The thing is there is no such thing as "macro skytoss", at least not for me - it's macro HT + sky that is killing me.
No idea how to beat that - as I said earlier I just try to bust Protoss before that or die trying. :/
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I am totally lost against Terran now with the new tanks, tbh.
Is Muta/Ling/Bling even viable atm? (I thought it would get better because of the liberator nerf.) The Terrans I am struggling the most against are those that go for a rather early Marine+Tank push. I'm always getting into a hard contain with a few tanks + marines and if I decide to move out, my army just melts against the tanks.
Might give Roach/Ravager a try soon, but I think there is still a timing I can't defend it.
edit: okay, definitely totally lost. I have no idea what to do in ZvT atm. Whatever they do, they just kill me as soon as tanks are involved.
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On November 27 2016 04:46 Swisslink wrote:
I am totally lost against Terran now with the new tanks, tbh.
Is Muta/Ling/Bling even viable atm? (I thought it would get better because of the liberator nerf.) The Terrans I am struggling the most against are those that go for a rather early Marine+Tank push. I'm always getting into a hard contain with a few tanks + marines and if I decide to move out, my army just melts against the tanks.
Might give Roach/Ravager a try soon, but I think there is still a timing I can't defend it.
edit: okay, definitely totally lost. I have no idea what to do in ZvT atm. Whatever they do, they just kill me as soon as tanks are involved.
Just do what all zergs do on ladder on most maps right now... Rush for Hydra ling and it's basically over if you handle the harass before probably... It's pretty broken in my eyes...
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On November 27 2016 09:01 GaliX wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2016 01:00 KeksX wrote:
If you don't believe in the multitasking to set Z behind before hydras are out, just play skytoss. I'm yet to see a P opt for the lategame. What's your go to response right now? Still queen hydra viper/infestor?
supposedly you can abduct them into neural/spore, but I haven't yet played vs a macro skytoss[/QUOTE]
The thing is there is no such thing as "macro skytoss", at least not for me - it's macro HT + sky that is killing me.
No idea how to beat that - as I said earlier I just try to bust Protoss before that or die trying. :/[/QUOTE]
Just do what all zergs do on ladder on most maps right now... Rush for Hydra ling and it's basically over if you handle the harass before probably... It's pretty broken in my eyes...[/QUOTE]
I faced skytoss a few times today, and I can't beat carriers with hydras (they were well upgraded).
I lost a game even though I was ahead in supply and eco, simply because the carriers are harder to beat now.
The P can either harass (which was the meta before the changes), or sit quiet and turtle to skytoss. The second option is the hard one currently.
I'm cannon rushed quite often recently, which shows that many P players don't really know what to do...
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On November 27 2016 09:26 bulya wrote:
I'm cannon rushed quite often recently, which shows that many P players don't really know what to do...
I can understand it... I am at like 20% winrate against zerg right now @ master level as a protoss...
Either I win by going Carrier rush which is pretty easy and lame to play kinda or I lose by going every thing else without getting super lucky... I mean the new hydras just bust throught you like nothing even if you get early Colossi with disrupters... It's pretty frustrating to play tbh.
Even early bane-ling all-ins can be hard to hold. Especially the one with overlord speed and drop...
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On November 27 2016 09:43 GaliX wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2016 09:26 bulya wrote:
I'm cannon rushed quite often recently, which shows that many P players don't really know what to do... I can understand it... I am at like 20% winrate against zerg right now @ master level as a protoss... Either I win by going Carrier rush which is pretty easy and lame to play kinda or I lose by going every thing else without getting super lucky... I mean the new hydras just bust throught you like nothing even if you get early Colossi with disrupters... It's pretty frustrating to play tbh. Even early bane-ling all-ins can be hard to hold. Especially the one with overlord speed and drop...
so why bother making Roaches now when you can just win with all Hydra? I do not understand this patch at all...
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I've never been good at mid game pushes because my game sense is pretty bad and it's hard to tell if I'm far ahead enough or not. So, I am used to winning late game but now that just isn't happening. Im 2-10 vs Terran this season so far and the two I did win tried bio.
Hydra/Viper/BL/Corruptor ISNT ENOUGH to crack turtle terran for a Diamond league player like me, is there any other way? I'm seriously at a loss right now, it seems impossible.
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On November 27 2016 14:00 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
I've never been good at mid game pushes because my game sense is pretty bad and it's hard to tell if I'm far ahead enough or not. So, I am used to winning late game but now that just isn't happening. Im 2-10 vs Terran this season so far and the two I did win tried bio.
Hydra/Viper/BL/Corruptor ISNT ENOUGH to crack turtle terran for a Diamond league player like me, is there any other way? I'm seriously at a loss right now, it seems impossible.
Why even make BL/Corruptor against turtle mech?
Take six bases, max out on hydra viper with about six-eight vipers, then yank and cloud everything again and again. Remember cloud shuts down PF and keeps injects up so when he kills your army you just insta-max again on hydra viper.
I haven't lost once to late game mech since I started doing this.
It's actually bio I'm having much more trouble with now, probably because I'm over commingling to muta in the mid-game, so I can't go tier 3 effectively, you need ultras+infestors again, just ultra ling isn't enough, and my infestor micro isn't exactly sharp ( who even made infestors in the last year?! )
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On November 27 2016 14:00 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
I've never been good at mid game pushes because my game sense is pretty bad and it's hard to tell if I'm far ahead enough or not. So, I am used to winning late game but now that just isn't happening. Im 2-10 vs Terran this season so far and the two I did win tried bio.
Hydra/Viper/BL/Corruptor ISNT ENOUGH to crack turtle terran for a Diamond league player like me, is there any other way? I'm seriously at a loss right now, it seems impossible.
here's some reps from a slow diamond player shitting on diamond and master mechers:
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6879476 (my standard 3hatch spire opening into hydra/viper/MASS EXPAND once I scout it's mech)
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6879481 (this kind of opens stupid cuz of the ghosts, but the rule is the same hydra/viper/hatchery/ is your composition and you beat every non bio unit)
(i didn't have any more games vs remotely decent mech players)
test map replays here:
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6879484 (here I die to a mech timing, but hydralisks resurrect me)
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6879485 (here I fuck up and lose to the 200/200 push, but then win, because of the bank+mech immobility)
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6879518 (here I get behind significantly in the early game, but hydralisk good unit)
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6879519 (again I'm behind in the early after losing 3rd base, but hydra/viper with SH harass brings me back. The guy later destroyed me every next game after doing the same push, but transitioning into bio)
tl;dw: make enough hydras to defend pre-viper push, then make only hydra/viper for the rest of the game
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Hi, i am a Diamond player with have some struggle vs Protoss. I try Bling,Hydra and have a question, witch hydra upgrate first, speed or range?
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On November 27 2016 19:37 OnlyZerg wrote:
Hi, i am a Diamond player with have some struggle vs Protoss. I try Bling,Hydra and have a question, witch hydra upgrate first, speed or range?
Range first. Speed is nice, but range adds so much to hydras
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My biggest problem with mech so far isn't the late game ( hydra viper FTW ) but the correct response after I scout the reactor factory at the front. Against 2-1-1 you know you can pretty much skip units until 4:30, but here they can come at you with just a few helions, they can go for hellbats, they can go for helion banshee or even a mine drop.
Even if I get a scout in and see the two factories knowing what they are exactly going for and how safe am I is turning out to be very diffcult.
Anyone got a good tip on scouting the mech opening deviations and best responses?
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On November 28 2016 00:05 IcemanAsi wrote:
My biggest problem with mech so far isn't the late game ( hydra viper FTW ) but the correct response after I scout the reactor factory at the front. Against 2-1-1 you know you can pretty much skip units until 4:30, but here they can come at you with just a few helions, they can go for hellbats, they can go for helion banshee or even a mine drop.
Even if I get a scout in and see the two factories knowing what they are exactly going for and how safe am I is turning out to be very diffcult.
Anyone got a good tip on scouting the mech opening deviations and best responses?
I simply mass queens from the early on (even if it costs me some drones).
Queen ling is enough to stop the early 2-1-1, and mass queen is what you really need for the hellion, hellbat, cylcone, or any mix of those. (may be some lings in the mix if its hellions)
The only early pushes which catch me off-guard is liberator tank 2 base pushes. But they come way later then a 2-1-1 or hellbats (about 7-8 minute compared to 3.5 - 5 minute).
I guess the response to those pushes is ravagers, unlike ling bane or hydras which are the go to depends upon what I scout.
Its about identifying the terran goes for that which is a bit tricky.
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It's weird, for some reason I have massive troubles playing vs bio after the patch, went from my best matchup to my worst.
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On November 30 2016 17:48 mCon.Hephaistas wrote:
It's weird, for some reason I have massive troubles playing vs bio after the patch, went from my best matchup to my worst.
What has changed?
The map pool? The builds of your terran opponents?
May be you play people who lost a lot of MMR due to the new patch... (I lost about 200 MMR because I wanted to make new builds which involve the new SH, and on the way lost to many cheeses which people threw out on me on the new maps).
If you play the roach ravager style vs bio I think its power is less effective without infestors.
I switched to ling bane before the patch so the patch didn't effect my play vs bio that much (banes even got buffed in the mid game).
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are hydra timings supposed to win against carrier rushes off of 2 oracles? cus i feel like they arent and we're stuck in retarded rush hive games again
EDIT: what happens to the tiny carrier fucks once you neural the bigboi carrier?
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how do people play standard ZvZs these days, do they go straight roach hydra? cus i keep losing to roach hydra with roach ravager and its pissing me off
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EPT
