EPTHave GM-level mechanics and hope that your opponent doesn't have them - I guess.
The LotV Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 50
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
Have GM-level mechanics and hope that your opponent doesn't have them - I guess. | ||
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reapsen
Germany559 Posts
I am now concerned that my rustyness might send me on an initial losing streak and i miss my shot of a direct promotion :D | ||
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ArtyK
France3143 Posts
On December 21 2016 22:19 reapsen wrote: Is anyone on EU willing to help me out with some practice games?? Last season i made it to diamond 3, then i stopped playing for 3 weeks and now i played my placement which i barely won and got into diamond 1 with the league progress bar almost "full". I am now concerned that my rustyness might send me on an initial losing streak and i miss my shot of a direct promotion :D Theres this thread at the top of the strategy section :p : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/515228-practice-partner-thread-season-5-2016 Considering MMR requirements are higher to get master now compared to previous season (4800 instead of 4500), it's pretty weird that one win gets you from dia3 to dia1. Wouldn't be surprised if your inactivity and the last patches with separate race MMR are at fault, you might win/lose a ton of MMR per game in the next 20-25 matches. So don't get your hopes too high, maybe i'm wrong i don't know :p add me from the thread if you want. | ||
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reapsen
Germany559 Posts
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SKN1995
Japan204 Posts
edit: never mind I realized how I could've held - still it always surprises me just bad shit roaches are against cyclones | ||
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Thraundil
Denmark278 Posts
Bought Legacy of the Void yesterday and managed 3-2 placement, for a mid diamond ranking. So far I am learning to deal with liberators quite well. ZvZ is a total mess which I cant even being to put a finger on my issues. But the biggie is protoss. I encountered a very nasty example just now. He goes nexus first, I go 3 hatch before gas, he takes a fast 3rd, I take a fast 4th and saturate everything unpunished. He does some unsuccessful oracle harass, I scout him and see stargates with carriers being warped in. I upgrade hydralisks, go for a big push at his 4th base. I manage to cancel, kill several carriers and the mothership core, but lose all the hydras. I remax on hydras, push again, deny the 4th again while taking my own 5th and 6th. Again, I severely reduce the carrier number, but again lose all hydralisks to the insane damage of those carriers. He finally secures his 4th, and moves for 5th, I switch to corruptor zergling, but its too late. He has 6 or 7 carriers and a gateway force, and everything I have seem to melt. I know I should have added vipers or infestors. But can this be right? I am way ahead of him on the income tab, I go for the strong anti-air hydralisk, I cant crack him. All the while it seems the only thing he needs to do is click hold position on his carriers, and my army melts with 0 apm while if I want to counter it, I need so many different units and very strong micro. Am I missing something? I have a replay I can post, but right now im just looking for a "how to handle turtling carrier protoss". | ||
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bulya
Israel386 Posts
If it was adepts, zealots or cannons (the three most likely ways to spend his minerals) then you should have added banes. Its still hard to counter stargate play with hydra bane ling, but possible if you don't give him too much time. If its carriers make sure you upgrade carapace. With each engagement, the moment the banes are gone you should retreat, remake banes wait for the reinforcing hydras, and you can engage again. Late game can be also about full armored ultras looking where the carriers aren't (abusing the mobility), although I didn't have that much success with it (if he switched to immortals it won't work). So if its stargate, I'm saturating 3 bases, taking a 4th so that I can transfer drones, while preparing a timing with hydra bane ling, trying to end it in the mid game (upgrading carapce and missile, vs carriers the carapace is huge). | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
As I said in the first post of this page, no one really knows how you beat carriers reliably. Ask 10 people you'll get 10 answers. What works for me: A mix of Ling/Bling/Hydra with a spire to get corruptors to clean up the leftover carriers (should he have them). Build is pretty much the Dark roach max but with Hydras. | ||
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bulya
Israel386 Posts
I was beaten 2 times by protosses who went very greedy into 3 base eco and eventually transitioned into carriers. One opened with glaved adepts after his third, and may be I could have defended better, but the other went into straight stargate (oracle) while taking a third (only 1 gate). Both was way earlier then most of the builds, because I scout at about 40 supply and the tech is usually followed by some gates (at least 2) and only then a third is taken. I'm fine with a protoss who gets to 3 bases and goes carriers as my respond is a hydra bane ling timing while upgrading carapace as well in case the game lasts longer, and the goal is containing the protoss on his 3 base eco while expanding and trading with the hydra ling bane constantly (even if the trades are poor for me). But with these 2 cases by the time I hit they had 3.5 base eco (70 probes), some cannons at each base and carriers. Which means I should have probably hit earlier while he was going for this composition, and the early third was a first tell for his greed. But I don't really know how can I punish or deny it if I'm going for greed myself (early 3 hatch, ling speed as the only tech, and mostly drones apart for the 3 queens and 8 lings for scout and defend). The only things which come to my mind is a ling bane bust or a quick roach ravager push with no upgrades and no lair. | ||
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ArtyK
France3143 Posts
On January 13 2017 09:42 bulya wrote: Is there a way of punishing a protoss player who went for a very early third base (before any tech, or straight after the first tech structure)? I was beaten 2 times by protosses who went very greedy into 3 base eco and eventually transitioned into carriers. One opened with glaved adepts after his third, and may be I could have defended better, but the other went into straight stargate (oracle) while taking a third (only 1 gate). Both was way earlier then most of the builds, because I scout at about 40 supply and the tech is usually followed by some gates (at least 2) and only then a third is taken. I'm fine with a protoss who gets to 3 bases and goes carriers as my respond is a hydra bane ling timing while upgrading carapace as well in case the game lasts longer, and the goal is containing the protoss on his 3 base eco while expanding and trading with the hydra ling bane constantly (even if the trades are poor for me). But with these 2 cases by the time I hit they had 3.5 base eco (70 probes), some cannons at each base and carriers. Which means I should have probably hit earlier while he was going for this composition, and the early third was a first tell for his greed. But I don't really know how can I punish or deny it if I'm going for greed myself (early 3 hatch, ling speed as the only tech, and mostly drones apart for the 3 queens and 8 lings for scout and defend). The only things which come to my mind is a ling bane bust or a quick roach ravager push with no upgrades and no lair. Feels like if the guy is THAT greedy you can kill him just with mass lings and a dropperlord. He won't be able to save his third and defend 2 extra mineral lines even if he makes an msc, because he'll have 2 overcharges at most by the time you kill him. Ravager are good too to break his defense with biles, otherwise going super greedy just like him but i wouldn't recommend it against this specific style, considering you're vulnerable to adepts, and then just let him go to carriers uncontested which seems to be a mistake in the current meta :p If you send your 2nd overlord (or first depending on map layout) towards your opponents third you'll reach it before 30 supply, allowing you to quickly make the call on wether you want to punish him or not. | ||
InfCereal
Canada1759 Posts
On January 13 2017 17:47 ArtyK wrote: Feels like if the guy is THAT greedy you can kill him just with mass lings and a dropperlord. He won't be able to save his third and defend 2 extra mineral lines even if he makes an msc, because he'll have 2 overcharges at most by the time you kill him. Ravager are good too to break his defense with biles, otherwise going super greedy just like him but i wouldn't recommend it against this specific style, considering you're vulnerable to adepts, and then just let him go to carriers uncontested which seems to be a mistake in the current meta :p If you send your 2nd overlord (or first depending on map layout) towards your opponents third you'll reach it before 30 supply, allowing you to quickly make the call on wether you want to punish him or not. You'd need to prepare in advance to do that. Which is a gamble because the toss might not expand that fast. | ||
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ArtyK
France3143 Posts
On January 13 2017 21:51 InfCereal wrote: You'd need to prepare in advance to do that. Which is a gamble because the toss might not expand that fast. You don't gamble, you just react as soon as you see the fast third. Your attack is delayed but so is his tech and production. Can he really hold lings at his 3rd main and natural when he opened gate nexus cyber nexus or whatever this is? And letting a guy get away with this into carriers seems unbeatable considering their current strength imo. Now if i'm wrong i'm still curious as to what you think should be the best reponse for my use as well  | ||
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jeeeKyyy
35 Posts
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ArtyK
France3143 Posts
On January 14 2017 04:22 jeeeKyyy wrote: Any general tips on playing vs widow mines? they are so annoying especially when playing Ling/Bling/Muta, which i had to stop using cause of them. Overlord speed for overseers. At least one overseer for your ling bane army, and one for your mutas. You can train splitting vs mines with ling bane on the unit test map LOTV in the arcade. The thing you don't want to see happening is mines shooting more than once, so making sure they die after each fight with the help of detection is a must. | ||
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Psychotikah
Canada101 Posts
I have recently started playing LOTV again and decided to fully switch to zerg from Protoss. I used to be a Master level protoss in HOTS but I have only played the first month of LOTV. Protoss is very frustrating to play now. Anyway, I absolutely love zerg and I don't regret the switch at all... I am actually sad that I didn't switch earlier. So far I am slowly climbing the ladder. I am nearly Diamond at this point. My big problem match up was zvz but I am getting the hang of it. I had one question about zvt though. Fighting against Bio with mines/tanks and liberators, should I go ling bane muta? Or is roach ravager better? I have tried both with success. Terrans at the platinum level have terrible mechanics and I feel I could roll them with slow lings only. But I feel like I am about to get better opponents now. Is the composition a question of preference? I think both styles are very fun to play. Ling Bane Muta is more hectic and I kind of love it. But I feel better equipped against a more tank/liberator heavy terran using roach ravager. I know that this is a pretty vague question, but I would be very grateful if you guys send a bit of time to share your preferences and knowledge with me. Thank you very much. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
With roach/ravager you aim to hit timings, before it's impossible to win fights head on. I generally either open roach aggression early on (RW after pool first-> 3 roaches) and then transition into roaches or go standard hatch gas pool into LBM. The maps where I really don't like playing roaches are Vaani and Echo because 1 choke with a turret (where T also rallies their units) can protect 3 bases from tunneling claws harass. On Vaani you also can't kill SCV building the natural with pool first lings and drops arw troublesome. Tanks and libs are also pretty poor vs LBM because mutas can snipe either before Terran has any meaningful number in their push. 4M is more troublesome as they can send a constant stream of units and attacl relentlessly. It's mostly matter of preference I'd say. | ||
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bulya
Israel386 Posts
On January 17 2017 23:53 Psychotikah wrote: Hello everyone. I have recently started playing LOTV again and decided to fully switch to zerg from Protoss. I used to be a Master level protoss in HOTS but I have only played the first month of LOTV. Protoss is very frustrating to play now. Anyway, I absolutely love zerg and I don't regret the switch at all... I am actually sad that I didn't switch earlier. So far I am slowly climbing the ladder. I am nearly Diamond at this point. My big problem match up was zvz but I am getting the hang of it. I had one question about zvt though. Fighting against Bio with mines/tanks and liberators, should I go ling bane muta? Or is roach ravager better? I have tried both with success. Terrans at the platinum level have terrible mechanics and I feel I could roll them with slow lings only. But I feel like I am about to get better opponents now. Is the composition a question of preference? I think both styles are very fun to play. Ling Bane Muta is more hectic and I kind of love it. But I feel better equipped against a more tank/liberator heavy terran using roach ravager. I know that this is a pretty vague question, but I would be very grateful if you guys send a bit of time to share your preferences and knowledge with me. Thank you very much. HI, I'm only Diamond 2, so treat my comments accordingly. I was going for roach ravager compositions about half a year ago every game, but with the announced changes then I switched to ling bane compositions. In my opinion roach ravager or ling bane compositions is a preference. Both can work, and each has its own cons and pros. On one hand, a roach ravager composition is less mobile, and I don't think it can break a terran in a frontal push like it could before the patch. So its a more defensive composition which you can use before the higher tech is available to you. An advantage it has now is that its way easier to switch from a roach ravager composition to a mech counter composition, so early scouting is less crucial. But with the new tanks you cant stuck on this composition for too long (some infestor support and a switch to Ultras or Brood Lords is necessary if you face bio tank). On the other hand the ling bane compositions (muta ling bane, corruptor ling bane, even queen ling bane), are more mobile, and you can be aggressive with it as well (I lost my third yesterday to a 2-1-1, but cleared the marines, counter attacked with what I had and made a comeback to the game even though he had his third, and I eventually won). One problem with it is that it isn't great vs mech. You can hold helion cyclone pushes with it if you have enough queens, once there are hellbats you must have banes as well and make sure you don't lose lings to those hellbats, and if he transitions into a mech based composition you must abandon the ling bane (if he doesn't have thors mutas can do the job, but if he does ling bane muta is useless). Another issue is getting rid of the mines and making sure they don't do too much damage. As a single hit can take a lot of you army away. But its part of the bio mine vs the ling bane (each side must split vs the other's splash damage). | ||
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Psychotikah
Canada101 Posts
Following up on this. Is there a build order somewhere with sharpish timings for l b m build? I'm still pretty much winging it from a gas pool hatch build but I feel like I will need to be sharper going forward. I would like to know when to get the third/baneling nest (against no funky agression), lair and muta spire. Also, I have tried corruptors instead of mutas and it seemed to give a lot of beef to my army. Is this a question or preference again? | ||
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AbouSV
Germany1278 Posts
-You only make a few (~8), so much more gas for other units (banes)/no need for early gas saturation. -You need much more larvae, since your army will have mainly ling/banes -You don't force turrets from terran, your harass has to be done with lings and banes also, only very occasionally will you be able to costic spray buildings! -Corruptors are way cooler. Watch Dark's games, he's the most known for corruptor play. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
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