EPTHow do you deal with the latter, especially the phoenix adept composition?
(The former is also hard, but at least I beat them from time to time in such a game)
The LotV Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 52
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bulya
Israel386 Posts
How do you deal with the latter, especially the phoenix adept composition? (The former is also hard, but at least I beat them from time to time in such a game) | ||
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IcemanAsi
Israel681 Posts
On February 13 2017 21:14 bulya wrote: Lately ZvP started being either the protoss sits in their base and builds the ultimate army, or quite the opposite. They come with phoenix adept composition and hurt my eco by quite a lot. How do you deal with the latter, especially the phoenix adept composition? (The former is also hard, but at least I beat them from time to time in such a game) Against adepts I found a great trick is to rally each hatchery to its own mineral line, that enables you to very naturally defend multiple locations as anywhere they go they will run into just hatched roaches giving you just the amount of time you need to actually arrive with your mobile force, combined with blind spores at 4:00 and an additional spore per mineral line if you see them commit to pheonix I've found holding that kind of aggresion much easier. Combined with a single evo upgrading ranged attacks you should be able to eventually clean up the attack and be ahead in upgrades and economy. | ||
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MoosyDoosy
United States4519 Posts
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loginn
France815 Posts
17 hatch 18 gas 17 pool Take third between 30 and 40 supply For more details : http://allthingszerg.com | ||
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
On February 18 2017 06:59 Tyrhanius wrote: What beats mass archons/chargelots/immortal (i mean except broodlords) ? I've seen Stephano work wonders with mass infestors using neural parasite on the archons and immortals (his composition ends up being like 7 ultra's, 10 queens, a group of ling bane for runby's and the rest infestors). | ||
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Railgan
Switzerland1507 Posts
On February 18 2017 06:59 Tyrhanius wrote: What beats mass archons/chargelots/immortal (i mean except broodlords) ? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/518963-zvp-swarmhost-infestor-vs-all-protoss-styles Ling Bane Infestor Swarmhost is what I use. | ||
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Decendos
Germany1338 Posts
Lost vs different bio styles like bio mine, bio liberator, 2 medivac drops, bio tank mine etc. ...oh and just destroyed 3 rax reaper just to see I was still behind economically 2 minutes later thx to mules etc.and him teching while doing 3 rax reaper?! Whats the go to meta right now vs bio? Still ling bane muta? How about the opening and going for a 3rd? A standard BO would be much appreciated :-) | ||
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bulya
Israel386 Posts
On February 25 2017 07:09 Decendos wrote: Hey guys, started playing again some days ago and am having REALLY big trouble in ZvT. I lost 11 out of 12 ZvTs high dia atm. Biggest problem is getting my eco up without dying to bio. Lost vs different bio styles like bio mine, bio liberator, 2 medivac drops, bio tank mine etc. ...oh and just destroyed 3 rax reaper just to see I was still behind economically 2 minutes later thx to mules etc.and him teching while doing 3 rax reaper?! Whats the go to meta right now vs bio? Still ling bane muta? How about the opening and going for a 3rd? A standard BO would be much appreciated :-) If you want to be safe vs 3 rax reaper you can open pool first (17 pool, 18 hatch, 17 gas), send 2 lings when the pool finishes over the map in a path which a single reaper won't find, and then you have a scout for what is going of, if its a fast expand you can delay his CC and also scout for what is the follow-up for the rax (go to the top of the ramp, and you can check if its a 1-1-1 or a 2-1-1, both are common). It also allows you taking a third without interacting with the scouting reaper as he either goes home or his CC is heavily delayed. If there is no CC and more rax without add-ons building then its probably a 3 rax reaper which is best defended (in my opinion, and as far as I see on pro level) with roaches. Just have ovies at the locations they can jump to your base and move your roaches to the point they will probably jump from next. Target fire single reapers instead of a-moving the roaches (a reaper that didn't die will regenerate its health), and morph low HP roaches to ravagers. It isn't that common on the current map pool, but rarely I'll play against it, and I'm quite used defending it from the map pool of 3.7.1. Muta ling bane is a path you can go for and quite common vs bio. Although there are other routes, roach ravager infestor is still playable (even on pro level). Even pure ling bane with mass queens can get you into Ultras later in the game. And other ling bane compositions are viable. A first push will come at about 5 minutes (a poke with 2 helions can hit a bit earlier, but if you scouted a 1-1-1 you can be ready for it with either queens and a spine or just a round of lings at 3:30), so if you didn't scout just make sure you have the defense for it by that time. If you want to go for muta ling bane, or any ling bane composition you can check PiG's rule of 1 gas build: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/519150-pig-strategy-articles-rule-of-1-gas-zvt If you want to be safe vs the 3 rax reaper you can switch the pool and the hatch there, just make sure you make a queen before the ovie and move the first queen down to the natural. | ||
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Decendos
Germany1338 Posts
On February 25 2017 07:32 bulya wrote: If you want to be safe vs 3 rax reaper you can open pool first (17 pool, 18 hatch, 17 gas), send 2 lings when the pool finishes over the map in a path which a single reaper won't find, and then you have a scout for what is going of, if its a fast expand you can delay his CC and also scout for what is the follow-up for the rax (go to the top of the ramp, and you can check if its a 1-1-1 or a 2-1-1, both are common). It also allows you taking a third without interacting with the scouting reaper as he either goes home or his CC is heavily delayed. If there is no CC and more rax without add-ons building then its probably a 3 rax reaper which is best defended (in my opinion, and as far as I see on pro level) with roaches. Just have ovies at the locations they can jump to your base and move your roaches to the point they will probably jump from next. Target fire single reapers instead of a-moving the roaches (a reaper that didn't die will regenerate its health), and morph low HP roaches to ravagers. It isn't that common on the current map pool, but rarely I'll play against it, and I'm quite used defending it from the map pool of 3.7.1. Muta ling bane is a path you can go for and quite common vs bio. Although there are other routes, roach ravager infestor is still playable (even on pro level). Even pure ling bane with mass queens can get you into Ultras later in the game. And other ling bane compositions are viable. A first push will come at about 5 minutes (a poke with 2 helions can hit a bit earlier, but if you scouted a 1-1-1 you can be ready for it with either queens and a spine or just a round of lings at 3:30), so if you didn't scout just make sure you have the defense for it by that time. If you want to go for muta ling bane, or any ling bane composition you can check PiG's rule of 1 gas build: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/519150-pig-strategy-articles-rule-of-1-gas-zvt If you want to be safe vs the 3 rax reaper you can switch the pool and the hatch there, just make sure you make a queen before the ovie and move the first queen down to the natural. Thanks a lot!! Will try this out, especially the opening and scouting part will help a lot. Thanks man! :-) | ||
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AndreasHeideman
Sweden30 Posts
Never really been an RTS player however I'm highly skilled at other games. I've been watching SC2 matches lately and it is inspiring me to want to try it out. I'm going to need some help along the way though. I remember a couple years ago Day9 had tutorials/guides/etc however it seems his channel has moved on and is no longer interested in SC2 content, also the game is on LotV now so that stuff seems outdated. So what I'm looking for is someone who is decent at the game and is interested in helping somebody become competent - I guess at least Platinum level play(?) I completely understand if nobody is interested, but I thought I'd give it a shot and I don't see how it's conceivable for an RTS newb to jump into SC2. | ||
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InfCereal
Canada1759 Posts
On February 28 2017 16:49 AndreasHeideman wrote: Hey guys, Never really been an RTS player however I'm highly skilled at other games. I've been watching SC2 matches lately and it is inspiring me to want to try it out. I'm going to need some help along the way though. I remember a couple years ago Day9 had tutorials/guides/etc however it seems his channel has moved on and is no longer interested in SC2 content, also the game is on LotV now so that stuff seems outdated. So what I'm looking for is someone who is decent at the game and is interested in helping somebody become competent - I guess at least Platinum level play(?) I completely understand if nobody is interested, but I thought I'd give it a shot and I don't see how it's conceivable for an RTS newb to jump into SC2. Getting to platinum is just mechanics, which is just playing a bunch. No amount of external coaching is going to improve your mechanics. So just play - when you lose, watch the replay and find out why you lost. 99% of the time, it's going to be because you're not producing units, or your forgot to make workers for 5 minutes, or what have you. | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On February 28 2017 23:06 InfCereal wrote: Getting to platinum is just mechanics, which is just playing a bunch. No amount of external coaching is going to improve your mechanics. So just play - when you lose, watch the replay and find out why you lost. 99% of the time, it's going to be because you're not producing units, or your forgot to make workers for 5 minutes, or what have you. i don't really agree with "coaching can't improve your mechanics," a coach can tell you what things are important and what to focus on. if you don't know what you're supposed to be doing then your mechanics will improve very slowly. really what a coach does is direct your thoughts, and a positive attitude helps you focus on improving your flaws rather than whining about balance or difficulty i mean, what you're saying is true - mass gaming is the surefire way to level up your play from scratch - but i don't see the point of discouraging someone from getting a coach. as long as they aren't looking to waste actual money on sub masters coaching | ||
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
Learn all the hotkeys, the unit, how they work. After : Learn the macro : get build order, learn to improve your economy, take bases, and spend your money in army units without floating toons of bank or being supplied block. After it's a lot of about knowledge, and improving want you know (improving macro, refining your hotkeys, learning advanced tips about the game), and understanding what the other do, and how you should play to win : For example : If he stays on 2 bases at this timing, he will all-in, so i need to cut drone and don't saturate my third bases, but produce army sooner, and you want to know with units you need : Mass adept push : well i make roach +/- baneling A lot of sentry : ravagers will be great. And sometimes : I dunno what is building but his natural is a bit late, or i manage to scout, or I get spores to protect me from some DT or oracles. People sometimes forgot it's a strategic game, not an hack and splash, and your decision are more importants that your micro/APM, even you need to improve them too, good understanding/good scouting/good decision will carry you more than APM. But you need to know macro first, as at low level you can afford to do bad decision and compensate by your macro. | ||
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Phaenoman
568 Posts
On February 28 2017 16:49 AndreasHeideman wrote: Hey guys, Never really been an RTS player however I'm highly skilled at other games. I've been watching SC2 matches lately and it is inspiring me to want to try it out. I'm going to need some help along the way though. I remember a couple years ago Day9 had tutorials/guides/etc however it seems his channel has moved on and is no longer interested in SC2 content, also the game is on LotV now so that stuff seems outdated. So what I'm looking for is someone who is decent at the game and is interested in helping somebody become competent - I guess at least Platinum level play(?) I completely understand if nobody is interested, but I thought I'd give it a shot and I don't see how it's conceivable for an RTS newb to jump into SC2. Hi, in order to learn the game you will have to play some games to get familiar with the gameplay and the units in specific. There is no way around it. As some pointed out, building workers, building infrastructure, building units constantly, i.e. macroing, will be your next step. The best way to do that is to follow a certain build order until you do it as well as possible. Meanwhile learning to use hotkeys slowly but steadily will improve your overall performace by a lot. With that you will reach your goal of Platinum easily. In short:
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Solar424
United States4001 Posts
drop.sc Diamond Z (me) vs Gold P. 3 cannons in my natural. Scout it immediately. Cannon in my main. Scout it and respond immediately. One pylon manages to get up, kills my natural and I can't even attempt to fight back. Should have just left the game right there, but tried to make something happen with drop overlords, but LO AND BEHOLD he has cannons in his base. Is there some sort of strategy against this, or do I just pull drones and pray? | ||
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Secionared
8 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On March 04 2017 14:26 Solar424 wrote: How am I supposed to beat this? drop.sc Diamond Z (me) vs Gold P. 3 cannons in my natural. Scout it immediately. Cannon in my main. Scout it and respond immediately. One pylon manages to get up, kills my natural and I can't even attempt to fight back. Should have just left the game right there, but tried to make something happen with drop overlords, but LO AND BEHOLD he has cannons in his base. Is there some sort of strategy against this, or do I just pull drones and pray? don't make 2 OLs before hatchery for starters if you want to defend with drone pull (which really works only if they do something like this and don't sim city between mineral lines): put 3 drones on every building cannon, ignore pylons. You are fine when pool finishes. If they commit to 3 cannons in your natural, you might as well let the hatchery die and do a ling elevetor all-in as a counter or just drone up main and clear cannons with ravagers. Nydus is an option too, but not as reliable | ||
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B.L.u.B.
Germany36 Posts
What kind of units are good vs. a full mech terra ? Do i play to passive in general against a full mech style ? | ||
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Roxas_
United States51 Posts
On March 14 2017 04:44 B.L.u.B. wrote: any tipps or guides vs. full mech terra, just lost 5 games in a row vs. hellion opening into full mech (tanks / Thors / Hellbats). What kind of units are good vs. a full mech terra ? Do i play to passive in general against a full mech style ? Assuming you scout the mech build in time (more than 1 factory, 3 gasses or more, lack of engr bays, etc), I have had success with not droning my 3rd and getting some extra gas for roaches. This is also assuming that you've opened with Dark's ZvT opener, which is a Pool-Hatch-Hatch build that is great against Reaper openings. Regardless, by the time I've scouted it, I usually have 3 queens, 3 hatches, and 30 or so drones. Make sure your queens protect your natural. Saturate your natural, and take up to 3 gasses with a Roach Warren. The roaches you build will be able to hold off hellions in the mean time. Keep making roaches/overlords until you see your opponent with a 3rd command center (which you should be continually scouting with your speed overlord, since hellion/hellbat is bad at denying OL scouting). If you can afford it, get +1 attack for range, too. Whenever I hold off the initial push, I've had success morphing my weak roaches into ravagers and counterattacking. Focus the corrosive biles on the sieged tanks and try to bust him then. I haven't played enough against good Terran mech past that stage of the game to give any solid advice. I am only in Diamond, so keep that in mind. Hope anything helps. | ||
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