|
On March 14 2017 04:44 B.L.u.B. wrote:
any tipps or guides vs. full mech terra, just lost 5 games in a row vs. hellion opening into full mech (tanks / Thors / Hellbats).
What kind of units are good vs. a full mech terra ?
Do i play to passive in general against a full mech style ?
Hold the first attacks with roaches/queens like Roxas said, and try to get to 80 drones and hive asap if he goes macro behind it. So you're mostly playing passive until he tries to get a 4th or you max out.
I personally exclusively play mass hydra vs any type of mech, even skyterran, and add vipers as soon as the hive finishes.
Then its a matter of denying expands while being greedy behind it so you can starve him out.
His army is slow so by the time he takes a 4th and you max out there'll be a weak spot somewhere, use a nydus if you have to.
It's almost impossible to take an even trade unless you crush him in the first fight but he'll eventually run out of ressources to remax while larvaes allow you to be back at his doorstep with 200/200 a minute after the fight.
Didn't lose in more than 6 months to mech using that strat, but it does require good positionning at all times, abduct on big units and blinding cloud on tanks do the rest.
|
Vs Mech, I like to play with roach hydra SH and vipers. Pretty much all that matters vs Mech is scouting it and getting a good economy.
Vs hellion openers, you basically don't need roaches before blue flame in my opinion, so before you invest in them, make sure to scout if it's mech or if the terran is going back to bio. You basically want to scout as soon as the threat of hellions is dealt with
You can get OV speed for cheap if you're not sure what the Terran is doing, although it should be fairly easy to scout on most maps, just by poking at the ramp with your overlord. Most mech builds also have a lot of trouble denying scouting since the two factory units that shoot up are not likely to be built early on.
A few good tells that this is NOT mech (in order of how likely it is not to be mech) :
-Extra barracks
-Engineering bay researching something
-Barracks with Techlab researching something
-Barracks with a finished add-on (he could be building it for a factory, but if the addon stays a while/is used it's probably bio)
A few good tells that this IS mech (in order of how likely it is to be mech)
-More than 1 factory on 2 bases.
-More than 2 factories on any number of bases
-Armory researching something before 7-8 minutes
-Factory with Techlab researching something
-Factory with TechLab (he could still play bio-tank so look for some more information)
Hellion openers hit a lot earlier than 2-1-1 so you need those lings earlier (around 4:00 mins) with at least 4 queens (I use 5). Then just move your extra queen(s) from base to base while keeping tab on the hellions with lings. If he dives in one of your mineral lines, just pull the drones, attack with queens and lings and you should be able to clear everything. I use about 20 lings.
Once you have creep between the nat and 3rd, you can pretty much resume droning/transfer drones to your 3rd. That's why the nat queen should build a tumor asap and make sure it is not denied by the reaper.
Don't hesitate to go high on drones and use the extra to build spines and spores in your bases. They will come in handy in the lategame vs hellion runbys.
You also need good vision. He is most likely to play passively so just make sure you creep all the way to his 3rd/4th base.
If you can force a siege with your roaches and hydras, just pull back with them, send the locusts in, go back in with your roach hydras and enjoy a nice clean stomp.
ArtyK is right about denying a 4th for as long as possible, and this should be doable with just a few roaches early on (lings will burn unless you have a lot of them). He usually will be too scared to move out with his mech army to shoo your roaches away, so you can probably do this for a while.
|
On March 04 2017 14:26 Solar424 wrote:How am I supposed to beat this? drop.scDiamond Z (me) vs Gold P. 3 cannons in my natural. Scout it immediately. Cannon in my main. Scout it and respond immediately. One pylon manages to get up, kills my natural and I can't even attempt to fight back. Should have just left the game right there, but tried to make something happen with drop overlords, but LO AND BEHOLD he has cannons in his base. Is there some sort of strategy against this, or do I just pull drones and pray?
Usually I cancel my natural, go to another location and plant another base. Usually he follows you and make more canons, just let them finished and cancel. Force as much canon as you can, it hurts his macro so he doesn't outmacro you.
On my main i just make roach warren/queen (sometimes 1 spine if canons are closed to my main), and drone to saturate my main and take second gas.
When it's finished i make 3-4 ravagers and kill canons with bile, while droning (sometimes he adds gateways to his canon to all-in in this case only make more ravagers/queens/spines).
You can kill infinite number of canon with your ravager while losing none, so just drone, clear canons, and double expand (except if he all-in you, just one base).
Pull off your drone off gas as soon as your base are finished.
The usual follow up is voidray on diamand, so make spore (in case of oracle, good vs DT too) extra queen, then hydras when your eco is good.
I don't counter attack after i cleared photon, because he will have photons at home, photon overcharge, and voidray so the odd you kill him with roach/ravager are low, and can cost you the game. Rather i prefer macro, just fear him to force canon/defensive/cut drone, so i outmacro him.
Later he usually goes for carrier, if you haven't kill him before with hydras, go for infestor burrow + neural.
Of course be careful, he can aslo go for some ground all-in, in this case go for normal composition.
|
I've been struggling vs carriers, and I'm trying to use infestors. Usually I mis-micro in a panic - but what should i be doing with them? Do you neural a single carrier or two off the edges of his army and float it over yours to try to chisel him down, or do a full-on engage and neural half of them or so?
Any advice on what the best response is when you scout him going carrier? Should i just take a bunch of expansions and try to win lategame, or attack as soon as I have a workable army? I feel like a quick tech to carrier should leave him vulnerable to a timing, but I have not been able to make it work yet.
|
On March 16 2017 18:05 Zrana1 wrote:
I've been struggling vs carriers, and I'm trying to use infestors. Usually I mis-micro in a panic - but what should i be doing with them? Do you neural a single carrier or two off the edges of his army and float it over yours to try to chisel him down, or do a full-on engage and neural half of them or so?
Any advice on what the best response is when you scout him going carrier? Should i just take a bunch of expansions and try to win lategame, or attack as soon as I have a workable army? I feel like a quick tech to carrier should leave him vulnerable to a timing, but I have not been able to make it work yet.
There isn't a go to strategy against carriers, there are dozen of things you can do, and each has his own way of dealing with them.
For example, in the last IEM Dark won vs Stats on Proxima by going melee upgrades, lings banes and ultras later.
I saw Snute going for a ton of spores at the late game.
Take into account that you will take worse trades so you must have a good eco (at least 70 drones, and it better be 80 or 90).
And preventing the further expansions while expanding all over the map seems to be the only common to all carrier solutions.
Hydra ling bane is also good (vipers can be added to abduct single carriers). Corruptors are good as they can not only engage carriers but piss on Nexues and deny their eco.
Railgan (a GM) using neurals vs them (and not only carriers), so you can check out his youtube videos.
Just make sure you know exactly what you do if you scout carriers and have it as something you practiced.
|
On March 16 2017 18:52 bulya wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2017 18:05 Zrana1 wrote:
I've been struggling vs carriers, and I'm trying to use infestors. Usually I mis-micro in a panic - but what should i be doing with them? Do you neural a single carrier or two off the edges of his army and float it over yours to try to chisel him down, or do a full-on engage and neural half of them or so?
Any advice on what the best response is when you scout him going carrier? Should i just take a bunch of expansions and try to win lategame, or attack as soon as I have a workable army? I feel like a quick tech to carrier should leave him vulnerable to a timing, but I have not been able to make it work yet. There isn't a go to strategy against carriers, there are dozen of things you can do, and each has his own way of dealing with them. For example, in the last IEM Dark won vs Stats on Proxima by going melee upgrades, lings banes and ultras later. I saw Snute going for a ton of spores at the late game. Take into account that you will take worse trades so you must have a good eco (at least 70 drones, and it better be 80 or 90). And preventing the further expansions while expanding all over the map seems to be the only common to all carrier solutions. Hydra ling bane is also good (vipers can be added to abduct single carriers). Corruptors are good as they can not only engage carriers but piss on Nexues and deny their eco. Railgan (a GM) using neurals vs them (and not only carriers), so you can check out his youtube videos. Just make sure you know exactly what you do if you scout carriers and have it as something you practiced.
Thanks for the advice! I like the ultra/ling/bane idea, I'm most comfortable with that composition anyway, reckon I'll practice that.
|
When I see carriers off of a stargate opener, I usually just mass hydras on 3 base eco and kill him with it. If it is a lategame switch then infestor corruptor is probably the best way to kill them. You can also just bypass them by playing with drops/nydus
|
I need tips. ZvT.
If I go ling-speed 3rd queen overlord-speed 3rd hatch, the Terran opponent is playing standard 2-1-1 or something.
If I skip overlord-speed, the Terran opponent is playing some crazy hellbat timings or something else crazy.
How do I know ahead of time whether or not investing into overlord-speed will be desirable or not.
|
On March 27 2017 01:25 SKNielsen1989 wrote:
I need tips. ZvT.
If I go ling-speed 3rd queen overlord-speed 3rd hatch, the Terran opponent is playing standard 2-1-1 or something.
If I skip overlord-speed, the Terran opponent is playing some crazy hellbat timings or something else crazy.
How do I know ahead of time whether or not investing into overlord-speed will be desirable or not.
Early ovie speed is an option which can be part of your build. But if you go for early ovie speed you must know where you can cut corners in your defense depending on the info you get with the ovie scouts. For example,there is no points going for ovie speed as well as safety spores for early banshees, as the ovies will scout the coming banshees which means you can put spores and cut ground defense while no banshees means you don't need spores and prepare the right defense for what he'll come with.
I was going for early ovie speed and an advice I got was watching at least 1 replay each day so that I'll know what kind of build terran players do and figure out how can I hold their pressure.
I'm not going for ovie speed now, a simple glimpse can tell whether its a 1-1-1 or a 2-1-1, another option is a pool first and sneak 2 lings to his natural (make sure they take a different path then the reaper). These lings can delay the natural, and peek at the ramp. The factory is earlier in a 1-1-1, its a gas firsts build, and usually the factory is built behind the rax so that it can switch with the reactor of the rax.
If its a 1-1-1 then expect some helions, may be even hellbats, and banshees are also an option there. If its a 2-1-1 the early marines with stim is what will usually hit you. There are plenty of follow-ups to these 2, but it can be scouted later (either another peek with an slow ovie, poke with some lings or roaches, timing of the 3rd, or just go for later ovie speed).
|
TBH on most maps you don't need OV speed to know if it's hellions or a 2-1-1
You can just park your overlord near his ramp and poke and tell from the timing of the factory/number of units which type of opener the T is playing.
|
yes yes yes I know the timings and I dont overinvest into defense (assuming I have confirmation on what the Terran is doing)
my question is this: say if Terran is going for Viking, I would like to have opened Overlord-speed. How do I know ahead of time whether or not Terran is doing a build against which I would have liked to have opened Overlord-speed?
|
On March 28 2017 00:30 SKNielsen1989 wrote:
yes yes yes I know the timings and I dont overinvest into defense (assuming I have confirmation on what the Terran is doing)
my question is this: say if Terran is going for Viking, I would like to have opened Overlord-speed. How do I know ahead of time whether or not Terran is doing a build against which I would have liked to have opened Overlord-speed?
you can't guess if he's gonna make a viking from the starport or not, plus even without speed you're supposed to poke with your ovi at ~3.30, so before the viking is even out
If he does make one just send back all your slow overlords home, he won't find that many and he delays his medivac/liberator production so it's not the end of the world if you lose 1 or 2. This isn't why you go overlord speed
|
Why, then, do you go overlord-speed, if not for the purpose of scouting?
|
On March 28 2017 03:09 SKNielsen1989 wrote:
Why, then, do you go overlord-speed, if not for the purpose of scouting?
I meant you don't go ovi speed to avoid vikings ^^
|
what do you do against people that go straight mass phoenix? i just straight up die every time, like he just fucking runs 10+ phoenix into 3 spores and snipe every drone then leaves again. rinse and repeat.
ive tried making like 6+ extra queens but theyre too slow to do shit, and hydras are obviously not AA. i tried rushing spire for corruptors with 4 spores at every base, and i still died before spire finished
what do?
|
On April 03 2017 05:15 Aocowns wrote:
what do you do against people that go straight mass phoenix? i just straight up die every time, like he just fucking runs 10+ phoenix into 3 spores and snipe every drone then leaves again. rinse and repeat.
ive tried making like 6+ extra queens but theyre too slow to do shit, and hydras are obviously not AA. i tried rushing spire for corruptors with 4 spores at every base, and i still died before spire finished
what do?
Its quite annoying to play against, but going for a hydra ling bane composition and pushing when the upgrades (hydra speed,bane speed and +1 range) finish will kill him.
Usually the phoenix slow your push while the P player transitions, but if you can push early enough he won't have that much at home.
Check your replays when you play vs this style, you'll find out there is very little at the P home early in the game.
If its 2 stargates you want 2 spores per mineral line (his transition will be slower so you have more time), if its only 1 stargate then a single spore is enough.
Each phoenix is one immortal less. Phoenix are good offensively but they are good defensively only if you aim for high tech units (such as lurkers) or mutas, but hydra ling bane is a simple composition which you can get quite quickly and it kills P players which open with a high phoenix count.
Hydras aren't bad vs them. They may seem bad if there are way more phoenix then hydras, but as soon as you get the numbers phoenix are helpless vs hydras. Just make sure you put your rally to the closest spore for each hatch, and push when you have the numbers.
There are other ways to deal with it, but for me, if I see a heavy phoenix opener then its almost a free win with my counter.
|
Target fire a single phx with the spores, he will lose stuff.
|
Yo guys, trying to get back in the game 
What are some really solid openers, BO wise, for the three matchups?
I like MLB vs T, LBHydra (with fast Brolords) vs P, i dont understand Zvz so I am open for anything 
|
On April 06 2017 17:46 SC2Toastie wrote:Yo guys, trying to get back in the game What are some really solid openers, BO wise, for the three matchups? I like MLB vs T, LBHydra (with fast Brolords) vs P, i dont understand Zvz so I am open for anything
Here is a solid opener which you can take into an MLB play:
http://lotv.spawningtool.com/build/45833/
I play LBHydra vs P if the protoss goes for stargate, but a BL transition isn't necessary as the timing usually kills him. I prepare a lurker transition in case there is a robo transition and I can't break him on time.
Here is an opener
You can get to almost any composition in the mid game and the late game out of the opener of this build (may seem outdated but its still valid), just make sure you adjust properly to stargate openers (spores on time if you see a stargate or a Dark Shrine):
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/512826-zvp-macro-into-ling-bane-ravager-midgame-timing
For ZvZ there is this guide:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/512411-zvz-lingbane-into-roach-play
At first I had problems switching to it after playing ling bane into muta for quite a while, but it turned to be more solid as with a ling bane into muta I'm vulnerable to roach bane pushes which force a spine forets, and I must scout such a push on time to make the spine forest work.
ZvZ isn't as simple by means of BO as the other 2 match-ups because early aggression is way more common, which force many reactions (playing the MU and adjusting your reactions to what you scout will open a macro build for you).
|
Good stuff bro, thanks !!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
