EPTThe LotV Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 31
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WeenMalkov
4 Posts
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loginn
France815 Posts
 On a more serious note, cancel the hatch at the last moment if you think you're going to lose it and try to sneak a few lings and a drone and setup at another base. | ||
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bulya
Israel386 Posts
Here is an example by a masters player: I implemented this counter as well many times. | ||
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BigRedDog
461 Posts
Usually when a toss successfully canon rush you and block your natural, he will look for the other expansion you have some where on the map and at the same time prepare a Nydus rush. I won't be surprised if the Toss will prepare against a OL drop as well but it is one more option for you to consider. | ||
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Aelendis
Belgium892 Posts
Recently, I've been totaly owned on ladder by terrans going for three raxs reapers (~mid-masters on EU). The issue is not really scouting them, or the defense in the early game, but when they keep massing them. I usually go for an early roach warren and defend on two bases with roaches, queens and lings. But I really feel like I'm contained on two bases and, when they mass reapers, I absolutely can't move out with roaches, as the combined damage of the bombs rekts my army. Also, by the time I feel like I should move out, they usually have established a good economy, so I'm quite behind. So my question is: How do you guys react when you see the terran massing reapers? Thanks! | ||
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dalaiisc2
18 Posts
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Aelendis
Belgium892 Posts
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Beelzebub1
1005 Posts
Just curious if anyone is doing it at all on any maps, obviously most of the maps currently in the pool have tons and tons of air space so of course that makes it inherently worse then Spire play, or does it? | ||
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dalaiisc2
18 Posts
try not to attack into a sieged terran. this will most likely fail because tanks + a critical number of bio just destroys roach rav. you have to stay passive and defend everything, the terran is throwing at you, so you can get to broodlords or ultralisks. which you choose doesnt matter, but ultralisks are pretty damn good. if you struggle to get to that point, add some infestors while you transition into ultralisks/broods. anyway, i feel like this style isnt the best, even if rly alot of zergs play it atm. you just give up the mapcontrol, which you would have with speedlings + mutas, but is a little bit better at defending an attack (you dont have to gamble, if the banes will connect or not). | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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Beelzebub1
1005 Posts
I started to pick up some steam with Darks little +1 speedling/baneling thing but I kind of feel like it got weak once Protoss remember they spent years practicing clean force fields. I watch every ZvP replay where I lose and I seem to never ever be able to secure a supply lead or a superior economy when I open with 17 hatch/17 gas/16 pool. I feel like the only games I really secure that good economy lead is when I go 3 hatch before pool but I always feel super vulnerable to pretty much anything the Protoss throws at me (because they will punish it no question). With the really late speed I am scared of even mildly determined Adept pressure, even the initial two alot of Protoss players seems to be able to eek out justifiable or better damage if I don't have speed on the map to lock him into his third base. Should I just be opening 3 hatch pool and learn to scout defend better? Seems like when I open safe 90% of the time a Protoss player will just take a greedy and not really contestable third and crush me with a higher tech army so should I just start playing very greedy in the match up? | ||
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RichardNPL
185 Posts
i'm never sure when i should take my third a replay would be nice or you can hit me up on NA easyrolling#1612 | ||
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IcemanAsi
Israel681 Posts
On May 14 2016 01:58 RichardNPL wrote: looking for a standard 2 base muta opener vs terran i'm never sure when i should take my third a replay would be nice or you can hit me up on NA easyrolling#1612 By TangSC: Build Order: 13 Overlord 17 Hatchery 18 Pool 18 Gas 19 Overlord 19-21 Zerglings 21-25 Queens 29 Zergling Speed (@ 100 -- remain mining gas) 32 Queen 34 Overlord/Injects (2:45) 36 Lair (3:00) 36 2nd Gas (3:20) @3:30 Overlord scout (Hellbats) 44 Spine (3:30~ -- can be earlier) 46 Double gas expansion (3:40) 44 Overlord 44-52 Drones (optional Speedlings/2nd Spine for Hellbat timings) 52 Spire/Overseer (4:05) 52 Overlordsx2 52-60 Drones (optional Speedlings) 60 Third Hatchery (5:10) 60-76 Mutaliskx8 (5:20) 8 Mutalisks pop by 6:00 76+ Evolution Chamberx2, Baneling Nest Drone third base fully while pressuring with Mutalisks Start +1/+1 and Baneling Speed @ 60 Workers, macro hatchery and switch into Ling-Bane production 8:20 – Engage Aggressively with +1/+1 Ling-Bane-Muta OR Play defensively while teching and taking a fourth. This build is reminiscent of two-base Mutalisk openings in HotS; however it is more focused on mass Zerglings in the mid-game. The first goal is to quickly saturate two bases while teching to a 4:00 Spire. Starting 8 Mutalisks by 5:30, you'll be able to repel any early drops or banshees and apply counter-aggression of your own. The goal is never to mass Mutalisks because Liberators are so powerful; 8 is the perfect amount to give you map control, force turrets and anti-air, and keep you safe from most types of pressure. It also gives you freedom to drone up your third base by 6:30, at which point you'll be able to afford 4-5 Hatcheries worth of Zergling production. Essential you use a 3-base economy with 4 gas to fuel a massive mid-game with +1/+1 Speedling-Baneling (upgrades finish around 8:00). You'd be surprised how many Zergling-Baneling you can afford on a 60 Drone economy; and if your opponent goes heavy Liberator you can add some Corruptors and go more Zergling-heavy. One of the awesome things about this build is its versatility in the mid-game. Early on, you’re very limited and contained to your two bases because you’re trying to maximize your economy so that you can afford those early Mutalisks. But once the Mutas are out, sky’s the limit. | ||
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Hungry101
25 Posts
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Aelendis
Belgium892 Posts
On May 16 2016 14:38 Hungry101 wrote: As a Plat player, ZvT, I should stay away from Muta openers right? It just seems so easy to scout (No 3rd for Zerg @3:15ish) and counter for Terran. Walk up to the front with 16 cheap Marines with Stim and game over no? A couple of turrets at home with SCV repair and maybe 4 Marines and 8 Mutas won't do much. But I know some pros do this build so what am I missing here? If it's unscouted, this 16 marines push is really strong against a muta opener (see Iaguz vs viOlet at DH Tours on Ruins of Endion). However, if you scout it, a few more queens (you have an excedent in minerals anyways), a well placed spore and an earlier banneling nest can do wonders. As to why to go for early mutas, you don't really have to deal damage in the terran main, because the purpose of your mutas is mainly to keep him at home while you macro like crazy behind it. If the terran builds a few turrets, you can just counter-attack with your mutas and make him retreat. If he builds a lot of turrets, that's a lot of money spent that is not spent on army. You have to be really active with your mutas, so your APM needs to be on point. | ||
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MadaoDotaSc2
Greece35 Posts
Thanks in advance hope to enjoy my stay in Sc2 comming from 8 years in dota  | ||
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Beelzebub1
1005 Posts
On May 16 2016 14:38 Hungry101 wrote: As a Plat player, ZvT, I should stay away from Muta openers right? It just seems so easy to scout (No 3rd for Zerg @3:15ish) and counter for Terran. Walk up to the front with 16 cheap Marines with Stim and game over no? A couple of turrets at home with SCV repair and maybe 4 Marines and 8 Mutas won't do much. But I know some pros do this build so what am I missing here? Yes you should, every build has it's time and it's place but the fact of the matter is that Liberators are still fantastic against Mutalisks (especially rushed Mutalisks which as you aptly pointed out are easy to scout for) and builds like this require extremely good mechanics and scouting to pull off. Dedicated 2 base pushes will kill you straight up, banelings defeats the entire purpose of this build and even if you defend the aggression you're on 2 hatchery, not good. Study Scarletts greedy ZvT, pretty good in my opinion, it's still a bit risky like this 2 base Mutalisk build but it turns your midgame into a powerhouse, she also goes for Mutalisks. It sucks, Mutalisk harassment used to be what made ZvT so good, now that Liberators (along with marines, non stingy turrets, widow mines, Thors, and even Vikings in sufficient numbers) can counter Mutalisks, there really isn't much point in building more then 8 of them and keeping them on patrol in your dead air space to defend drops. Once enough Liberators hit the field, Mutalisks are literally a waste of gas. | ||
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Beelzebub1
1005 Posts
On May 17 2016 00:32 MadaoDotaSc2 wrote: i just bought the games some days ago and i play with AI in par with next lvl of hard but keep going up and down. When should i start playing vs humans? Also is there somewhere a video that explains what all units in sc2 do ? and how to counter em as zerg? also some starting guide videos about not only a build but the explain of why its good and in which condition. i searched on utube but didn't find more than some things about mechanics and B.O. alone :S Thanks in advance hope to enjoy my stay in Sc2 comming from 8 years in dota Welcome to the hardest game on the planet. Start playing against humans right now, forget the AI, bathe yourself in the fires of 1v1, the computer is retarded won't make you a better player. Go on SC2 Reddit AllThings Zerg there is alot of build order and mechanics information. | ||
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MadaoDotaSc2
Greece35 Posts
On May 17 2016 03:48 Beelzebub1 wrote: Welcome to the hardest game on the planet. Start playing against humans right now, forget the AI, bathe yourself in the fires of 1v1, the computer is retarded won't make you a better player. Go on SC2 Reddit AllThings Zerg there is alot of build order and mechanics information. i won someone :O http://i.imgur.com/gDOjQ0M.jpg | ||
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InfCereal
Canada1759 Posts
Good job | ||
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