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shimmering119
15 Posts
13 overlord 17 hatch 18 gas 17 pool 19 overlord 19 2x queens + 3x lings third base at 3-4 minutes at some point in this build should i be going for a roach warren? speed? say if i got a roach warren at any point in this build when would i start throwing down evo chambers? or is that necessary? feel pretty lost when it comes to zerg macro honestly | ||
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Venomsflame
United States613 Posts
Any tips or general strategies I'm missing or neglecting? Not a big fan of Muta wars ZvZ so I'd like to avoid going mutas myself is possible. Thank you friends! | ||
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bulya
Israel386 Posts
On March 16 2016 06:39 Venomsflame wrote: I'm having a little trouble with ZvZ, Roaches vs Muta. In Hots it was much easier to stabilize with roach hydra and then push with a larger roach based army providing you didn't take much damage. However, I'm running into a lot of mutas --> lots of lurkers. Is the only real response to be ready to counter push before Lurkers are up? Are going Lurkers yourself the best option? Running into a 10 lurker wall with roach ravager hydra hurts my feelings and the mutas give them complete map control. Any tips or general strategies I'm missing or neglecting? Not a big fan of Muta wars ZvZ so I'd like to avoid going mutas myself is possible. Thank you friends! As one of the players who plays the muta lurker style a lot (followed by cracklings and Brood lords), the one unit I afraid most in this matchup is the Viper. Vipers can make my air army collapse completely (5 parasitic bombs and an army of 15 mutas is dead), and the blinding cloud makes lurkers very vulnerable to ravagers. It takes a lot of time to get lurkers (lair, hydra den, morph to lurker den takes a lot of time, and just then I can prepare my lurkers), so you can have vipers by the time the opponent have his lurkers. Just make sure that this is what you are going against (Although in my opinion the vipers are good vs other combinations as well). I'm high gold (beat plat players from time to time with this strategy, although its starts with a good scout for what is my opponent doing), so in case you are much higher may be I'm not the one to suggest here. But you can still go for Vipers (I guess 5 - 8 vipers is enough to carry you throughout the end game). | ||
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ManiacTheZealot
United States490 Posts
On March 16 2016 06:39 Venomsflame wrote: I'm having a little trouble with ZvZ, Roaches vs Muta. In Hots it was much easier to stabilize with roach hydra and then push with a larger roach based army providing you didn't take much damage. However, I'm running into a lot of mutas --> lots of lurkers. Is the only real response to be ready to counter push before Lurkers are up? Are going Lurkers yourself the best option? Running into a 10 lurker wall with roach ravager hydra hurts my feelings and the mutas give them complete map control. Any tips or general strategies I'm missing or neglecting? Not a big fan of Muta wars ZvZ so I'd like to avoid going mutas myself is possible. Thank you friends! So if he's going mutas and lurkers then he's not gonna have a lot mutas and if he has a lot of mutas he's not gonna have a lot of lurkers. That's a pretty weak setup. And he can't really attack with it either. He's pretty much stuck on defense. So get a nydus and the appropriate amount of hydras to beat the mutas. Make sure you have spores to deter muta harrass. Walk to the front of his base set a nydus down there. Then send a speed upgraded overseer to one of his expansions or his main and nydus there too. Then distribute your army between both locations as needed. He will have to do the same only he's gonna lose lurkers and mutas when he does it cause they're slow and awkward. Don't commit to attacking a bunch of lurkers unless you can win doing it. Just back up and nydus somewhere else. Force him to defend everywhere and kill as many expos as you can while you work towards broodlords. If you don't kill him with the nydus, the broodlords will probably do the job. If you for some reason fall behind him you probably have to start using the same turtle tactics as he is. Don't die to crackling runbys. The whole idea is just avoid at all costs attacking into lurkers because it is never a good trade no matter what unit combo you have unless you're a protoss with a bunch of immortals ^.^;;. | ||
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BigRedDog
461 Posts
I've seen Snute vs Polt in IEM Katowice 2016 finals but never feel like Snute has an upper hand or an even hand. Playing right now as mid-high diamond. Thanks! | ||
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Beelzebub1
1004 Posts
On March 16 2016 10:42 BigRedDog wrote: Can someone show me a guide or videos on how to play roach/ravager style against terran bio? I feel like I am always stuck in mid tier and have trouble transiting to hive tech. I consider getting lurkers, infestors but i can never hold the bio/tank push. I've seen Snute vs Polt in IEM Katowice 2016 finals but never feel like Snute has an upper hand or an even hand. Playing right now as mid-high diamond. Thanks! I started having much more success in ZvT when I stopped trying to mimic the pro scene where Roach/Ravager vs. Terran and started going for Pigs "rule of 1 gas" build which is taking your third and teching to lair slightly later at 5 minutes off of only 1 mining gas. This allows you to either get an early 3 Ravager or said 5 minute Lair depending on what you scout, as well as a fast 3rd hatch, fast saturation, and about 4 Queens for defense or creep spread. With this, you enter the mid game with a great economy and you still played semi safe by having 4 queens, since you only mined off 1 gas, you'll be working with alot of minerals. Only build 8 - 10 Mutalisks, make a scary army and tech to Hive. | ||
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insitelol
845 Posts
On March 16 2016 10:42 BigRedDog wrote: Can someone show me a guide or videos on how to play roach/ravager style against terran bio? I feel like I am always stuck in mid tier and have trouble transiting to hive tech. I consider getting lurkers, infestors but i can never hold the bio/tank push. I've seen Snute vs Polt in IEM Katowice 2016 finals but never feel like Snute has an upper hand or an even hand. Playing right now as mid-high diamond. Thanks! Play mutaling and rejoice! | ||
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Destruktor
Spain60 Posts
I think it's because the larva nerf but I'm not sure. Thanks in advance | ||
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insitelol
845 Posts
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BigRedDog
461 Posts
On March 16 2016 19:31 Destruktor wrote: Hi! diamond Zerg here. I'm having a lot of problems with my economy vs T & P in LotV. I always make almost only drones during the first minutes of each game and I go to fast lair and heavy teching (+1/+1, infestation pit, etc..), my big surprise comes when I see the resorce mining graphs and I see I had less active workers than my opponent. If I made a lot of drones, how can it be? I'm afraid I spent too many of them into buildings. Is anyone else under this situation? or Should I just improve my macro? have you review your games and see if you missed any injects? How early are you taking your third (should be by 3:30 for Terran and less than that for Toss). Also, compare workers min by min with your opponents should help as well. | ||
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Hungry101
25 Posts
On March 16 2016 14:00 Beelzebub1 wrote: I started having much more success in ZvT when I stopped trying to mimic the pro scene where Roach/Ravager vs. Terran and started going for Pigs "rule of 1 gas" build which is taking your third and teching to lair slightly later at 5 minutes off of only 1 mining gas. This allows you to either get an early 3 Ravager or said 5 minute Lair depending on what you scout, as well as a fast 3rd hatch, fast saturation, and about 4 Queens for defense or creep spread. With this, you enter the mid game with a great economy and you still played semi safe by having 4 queens, since you only mined off 1 gas, you'll be working with alot of minerals. Only build 8 - 10 Mutalisks, make a scary army and tech to Hive. Using this style (1-gas rule), do you always get the Roach Warren and if not how do you decide? | ||
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ruypture
United States367 Posts
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TheSubtleArt
Canada2527 Posts
On March 17 2016 19:12 ruypture wrote: I too am a high diamond player and I'm confused as to the timings for when I need a roach warren vs terran and vs protoss depending on what I scout. It seems that against terran the roach warren always goes down and vs protoss the roach warren is more reactive It depends on what you're doing, but generally you need a roach warren a little earlier vs Terran to deal with liberators and hellbat pushes. ~4 minutes to ~4minutes 15 seconds is a decent time to suicide an overlord vs Terran to see what they're up to (any earlier might not give you much information about his tech path, and any later is probably too late). Hellbat pushes will hit around 5 minutes, and the first liberator around that time too, so a little after 4 minutes is a decent time to throw down a roach warren vs terran in my experience. I don't know the timings very well against Protoss, but you can generally get it quite a bit later since most Protoss tech rushes can reliably be stopped by Queens and very early aggression can be handled by speedings. | ||
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maximus_0
United States43 Posts
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jpg06051992
United States580 Posts
On March 17 2016 14:33 Hungry101 wrote: Using this style (1-gas rule), do you always get the Roach Warren and if not how do you decide? To be totally honest I know lots of Zergs like to scout for the Starport but I don't feel like it's always reliable, they may or may not be making a Liberator and the Overlord will certainly be dead before it see's anything, it can be a Medivac for fast drop play which massacres early Ravagers. Building the Warren + 3 roaches + the ravager morph, that's ALOT of gas and minerals spent where as 4 Queens are merely minerals with more long term applications in the game. Roaches just fall apart vs. bio once 3/3 hits with the double pronged drops. they just trade so incredibly bad with upgraded bio. I prefer to use Queens for Liberator defense and if I see that he isn't taking a greedy third CC I have almost never been let down by safety spores (1 outside the middle Mineral patch) you can be sure that either Liberators or Hellbat pushes are coming your way, in which case having the 4 defense Queens will be invaluable. I rarely even lose 1 Queen against the Liberator plays. I don't like to drop the Warren in ZvT at all, if sacrifices 4 drones worth of economy for a unit that is useless outside of super crisp timing pushes and suffers against late game drops. Hellbat pushes can be crushed with a few banes, a safety spine (which I drop if I see he's being very passive with his Hellions, almost always an indicator that he wants them banked up for a push) and the 4 Queens that you will easily be able to afford being on 1 gas. Plus, even if he sees the Queens and pulls his Liberator away, you will have ridiculous creep spread abilities available to you. tldr, if your scared of hellbat pushes and Liberators, more queens and better game sense will spare you having to waste the minerals on anything other then more queens and a safety spine. | ||
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DERASTAT
Germany99 Posts
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InfCereal
Canada1759 Posts
On March 20 2016 14:20 maximus_0 wrote: how to counter +1 att ling all in for zvz? The same way you would defend a normal ling all in. Use banelings to main damage, and zoning. Keep queens in chokes, don't fight in open areas, or with less lings. Zerglings with +1 attack will still die to a baneling in 1 hit, so not much changes. | ||
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Destruktor
Spain60 Posts
On March 21 2016 20:52 DERASTAT wrote: Hey, how to response to canon rush? I always drone scout, If I see a forge I send 5-6 drones to nat. One to catch the probe and 4 to attack the canon. You can aslo build a spine as soon as the hatch finish and remenber always to attack canons instead pilons. | ||
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IcemanAsi
Israel681 Posts
On March 21 2016 21:47 Destruktor wrote: I always drone scout, If I see a forge I send 5-6 drones to nat. One to catch the probe and 4 to attack the canon. You can aslo build a spine as soon as the hatch finish and remenber always to attack canons instead pilons. Not a huge fan of drone scouting a Protoss so I just send a drone down to check the natural at ~ 1:00 | ||
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
On March 22 2016 00:24 IcemanAsi wrote: Not a huge fan of drone scouting a Protoss so I just send a drone down to check the natural at ~ 1:00 I'm starting to think of doing it more and more because of all the protoss BS they can throw at us. You know, scout 'til you're confident enough with just a simple drone scouting expand, and overlords. | ||
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