On March 02 2016 11:20 Hotshot wrote: I am new to zerg, and I am wondering if there are there any good vods and tutorials how to beat meching terran in WOL as zerg? In the second time in one week I had a brutal and unfun game vs a meching terran. I am top 8 diamond in wol (currently 1st), yet my last game was vs some 7 time plat (and he played badly too), but I just can't seem to get anything to work vs a meching terrran.
Its like thors kills every unit I use (hydra/roach/mutas/corruptors/broods) and marines kill lings easily while tanks and planataries make some positions unbreakable. In the meantime terran has the air for free.
I keep hearing broods/infestors, but I can't seem to get it to work. Seems broods just die to vikings, ravens or thors while the terran laughs with his planateries.
how to fight mech is a complicated subject but you don't mention queens - when youre going for a hive deathball as zerg having queens to transfuse units like ultras, brood lords, overseers, vipers and infestors really helps (anywhere from 5-15 depending on the game). queens are also really good at damaging fragile air units in engagements because of their high AA range. massing vipers and evolution chambers (to consume for more viper energy) is also useful
there are so many different compositions a mech player can have that there's no one answer, it's really all about doing hard, massive tech switches to reduce his army size or deny bases at critical moments while continuing to expand. focus on holding important positions - like if he's on 3 base , set up your army in an open area near where he wants to take his 4th and be very careful and patient, then try to take the best engagement you can and remax on units he will be weak to after the fight. but you don't want to just force into a base he already has set up with a planetary, that's where mech is strong
I was thinking about this yesterday night... And I did think of queens (as they are 2 supply like hydra, but have +1 air range). Problem is they are slow off creep, and they run out of energy. But I think its definitely something I want to try next time (especially considering I usually cover the entire map with creep in these mech games)
I also keep wondering, what is the primary point of infestors? To cast Infested Terran to soak up dmg? To Fungal Growth air and/or marines? To Neural Parasite tanks and/or bc's/ravens?
I am also completely unsure what to do about thors, they just seem to kill absolutely everything expect maybe lings (and links quickly die to the marines)... The only thing that seems to work is Neural Parasite, and hoping my infestor does not get targeted down.
As a protoss I can look at a planatary and think I can burst it down, especially with some immortals... And even 1-2 colossus can make short work of any repairing scv's... but with zerg I feel I need to put in so much more gas into the bust, all to kill a 150 gas.
And once again, if you can think of any good classic wol games I can watch with mech vs zerg, that would be nice to study.
On March 02 2016 11:20 Hotshot wrote: I am new to zerg, and I am wondering if there are there any good vods and tutorials how to beat meching terran in WOL as zerg? In the second time in one week I had a brutal and unfun game vs a meching terran. I am top 8 diamond in wol (currently 1st), yet my last game was vs some 7 time plat (and he played badly too), but I just can't seem to get anything to work vs a meching terrran.
Its like thors kills every unit I use (hydra/roach/mutas/corruptors/broods) and marines kill lings easily while tanks and planataries make some positions unbreakable. In the meantime terran has the air for free.
I keep hearing broods/infestors, but I can't seem to get it to work. Seems broods just die to vikings, ravens or thors while the terran laughs with his planateries.
how to fight mech is a complicated subject but you don't mention queens - when youre going for a hive deathball as zerg having queens to transfuse units like ultras, brood lords, overseers, vipers and infestors really helps (anywhere from 5-15 depending on the game). queens are also really good at damaging fragile air units in engagements because of their high AA range. massing vipers and evolution chambers (to consume for more viper energy) is also useful
there are so many different compositions a mech player can have that there's no one answer, it's really all about doing hard, massive tech switches to reduce his army size or deny bases at critical moments while continuing to expand. focus on holding important positions - like if he's on 3 base , set up your army in an open area near where he wants to take his 4th and be very careful and patient, then try to take the best engagement you can and remax on units he will be weak to after the fight. but you don't want to just force into a base he already has set up with a planetary, that's where mech is strong
What I found to be really strong in LotV is Nydus vs mech. Because they are unkillable now, they are guaranteed to at least let 5-10 lings in. Nydus are extremely good at pulling the mech army out of position because Terran have to defend the nydus or they will lose their productions.
On March 03 2016 06:05 Hotshot wrote: And once again, if you can think of any good classic wol games I can watch with mech vs zerg, that would be nice to study.
I think you should go and google replays with WOL players like Stephano, DongRaeGu or Leenock. Most ppl on this forum probably ain't playing WOL no more as everyone moved to LOTV.
As far as i know back then the best counter is Broodlord infestor. Infestor's fungal growth on the vikings while broodlord clear anything on the ground.
A protoss composition of immortal/stalker/adept gets me time after time in the mid game, and I don't have a clue how can I counter this composition. Are there any suggestions for what unit combo I should go for vs such protoss combo?
On March 05 2016 11:50 bulya wrote: A protoss composition of immortal/stalker/adept gets me time after time in the mid game, and I don't have a clue how can I counter this composition. Are there any suggestions for what unit combo I should go for vs such protoss combo?
Lurkers are pretty good, if the protoss has to many Immortels, morph all Roaches to Ravagers and build hydras instead.
On March 05 2016 11:50 bulya wrote: A protoss composition of immortal/stalker/adept gets me time after time in the mid game, and I don't have a clue how can I counter this composition. Are there any suggestions for what unit combo I should go for vs such protoss combo?
You go roach/hydra into lurker. Honestly ravagers are a waste of money, they are 100/100 but weaker than roach on fight, bile never touch vs any decent player, better get roach then hydra, so you can tech lurker too. You don't need a lot of roach if he hasn't a lot of zealot/archons. If he has a lot zealot/adept you can consider adding baneling to your roach.
Only make a few ravagers when he has sentries and you want to break them. Unless it's a two base all-in, you don't have a lot of larvas, so it's good to morph low life roach into ravagers (and try to shot the warprism).
Don't forget upgrades, then when you have lurker you can zone him.
Personnally i like adding a lot of queen to defend two base timing/phoenix harass, as it's gaz free, and transfuse give a lot of survivibility to your units, while queen have the same DPS than a roach + 7 range anti-air.
On March 05 2016 19:49 Tyrhanius wrote: bile never touch vs any decent player
I think you are more qualified than me to give advice, but this feels like an exaggeration. I see biles connect frequently even in GSL. If they are indeed that easy to dodge we wouldn't see ravagers in televised Korean games I think?
It can be frustrating when you play against someone that controls their army all the time and never miss a dodge, but then chances are that they are not warping in zealots in your natural, building probes, defending your ling drop, picking up drones with their phoenixes and spending their resources at the same time, which you should be happy about.
It depends a lot in what level you play at I guess... Mine is pretty low.
It's not worth getting a 100/100 3 supply unit with 14 dps instead of a 100/50 2 supply unit with 22.4 dps that can shoot air too unless you'r all-in and can't tech hydra, or you defend an all-in and can't tech hydra.
On March 01 2016 02:37 TequilaMockingbird wrote: Guys what exactly am I supposed to do against mech ? It seems to be some new trend to revive the good old turtle mech (after having cried countless tears about how mech is absolutely not viable in Legacy..QQ..Qq...) and I find it close to impossible to beat.
6 out of my last 10 ZvTs were against mech and while I won all the bio games, I lost every single game vs mech.
So far my approach has been to mass expand (usually 4th and 5th at the same time, upon scouting that its mech) and then trying to delay their 4th with creep / burrowed lings. But even on 4 base Terran is more than easily able to max out a seemingly random composition of tank/thor/hellbat/viking/liberator/Battle Cruisers.
I tried to fight it with Corrupter/viper/BL and some ravagers but got stomped every time by some 90 apm gosu.
Any ideas ?
Vipers destroy mech, at least in my opinion. Vibe had a few good games on his stream the other day where he went hydra / roach / viper into brood lord vs mech. The main strategy was to abuse abduct as much much as possible. It's basically a free kill on every unit it's used on, and mech units aren't as expendable as bio so it really hurts Terran.
He said the only time mech tends to beats Zerg is if you can hit a strong timing and end the game before Vipers are out
On March 06 2016 01:40 Tyrhanius wrote: I mean 95% of the bile don't touch.
It's not worth getting a 100/100 3 supply unit with 14 dps instead of a 100/50 2 supply unit with 22.4 dps that can shoot air too unless you'r all-in and can't tech hydra, or you defend an all-in and can't tech hydra.
mass ravager is different from like 5-10 though... if you get critical mass you can guarantee either hits or forcing your opponent to back up. it just depends on whether youre using them for army composition or just for support while you transition
I'm about 100 or so games into LOTV atm. I'm rank 1 diamond right now, so I'm getting a few master players and a lot of diamond. So I am completely lost on playing toss. I feel I have an understanding against the other races. However, when it comes to toss I just don't know what I'm doing.
So if you watch the replay besides the obviously eco mechanics/upgrades and little things that I will get better at with time, my real question is the engage/unit composition. I'm playing this guy and I see he's going gateway and robo units. I make hydra and lurkers. I am able to hold off the mid game attacks decent enough and not lose a base. I'm teching to hive behind this. I make corrupters into broods and push forward. I sack his 4th.
At this point in retrospect I could have backed off a little bit maybe and remaxxed and probably have saved a lot more of my army. However, he was starting tempest production and it was not exactly what I wanted to do I wanted to keep pressure(whats going on in my mind while playing).
So if you could just give me an idea of how I could have engaged this army better. What unit composition do I need to transition into when I start seeing tempest? Anytime I play airtoss I just get melted it seems like. If I see him going heavy air in the start, what is my ideal army? If I see him going gateway shit I usually go lurkers into broodlords and eventually a few ultras . I'm really lost, any help is appreciated.
I'm about 100 or so games into LOTV atm. I'm rank 1 diamond right now, so I'm getting a few master players and a lot of diamond. So I am completely lost on playing toss. I feel I have an understanding against the other races. However, when it comes to toss I just don't know what I'm doing.
So if you watch the replay besides the obviously eco mechanics/upgrades and little things that I will get better at with time, my real question is the engage/unit composition. I'm playing this guy and I see he's going gateway and robo units. I make hydra and lurkers. I am able to hold off the mid game attacks decent enough and not lose a base. I'm teching to hive behind this. I make corrupters into broods and push forward. I sack his 4th.
At this point in retrospect I could have backed off a little bit maybe and remaxxed and probably have saved a lot more of my army. However, he was starting tempest production and it was not exactly what I wanted to do I wanted to keep pressure(whats going on in my mind while playing).
So if you could just give me an idea of how I could have engaged this army better. What unit composition do I need to transition into when I start seeing tempest? Anytime I play airtoss I just get melted it seems like. If I see him going heavy air in the start, what is my ideal army? If I see him going gateway shit I usually go lurkers into broodlords and eventually a few ultras . I'm really lost, any help is appreciated.
Your macro is really bad. You bank too much: build gateways and spam units. Also, in lotv, protoss starts far behind vs zergs. You need to make damage in first 5 mins with adepts or you will loose, even if you opponent is bad.
You did good vs BL since u already had tempests, but your ground army was weak. You need more archons and expecially more zealots. Do more gateways and more zealots man, 2 prism is standard: one to reinforce ur main army, the other one to backdoor zerg when you face if main army
Your macro is really bad. You bank too much: build gateways and spam units. Also, in lotv, protoss starts far behind vs zergs. You need to make damage in first 5 mins with adepts or you will loose, even if you opponent is bad.
You did good vs BL since u already had tempests, but your ground army was weak. You need more archons and expecially more zealots. Do more gateways and more zealots man, 2 prism is standard: one to reinforce ur main army, the other one to backdoor zerg when you face if main army
I'm the zerg 4Head. Weltall a tribute to xenogears? Top 3 rpgs for me.
I usually make roach/hydra/lurker vs P and it's fine for mid game but when my opponent goes for a death ball of inmortal, archon, disruptor I don't know what Tier 3 unit add to my army. Ultras fall vs inmortals and BL aren't viable. Any advice?
On March 09 2016 17:58 Destruktor wrote: I usually make roach/hydra/lurker vs P and it's fine for mid game but when my opponent goes for a death ball of inmortal, archon, disruptor I don't know what Tier 3 unit add to my army. Ultras fall vs inmortals and BL aren't viable. Any advice?
I started using lurker/hydra/corruptor/overseer/BL vs the massive prottoss ground armies in the late game (archon, immortal, stalker, disruptor, collosi, DTs). I start by spreading creep, putting a few spores and the lurkers behind them, and when I get to the combo mentioned above I can snipe the observers and advance my lurkers as well as the brood lords. You can try it out, although I'm gold and I guess there are more to see in the higher leagues.
I usually make roach/hydra/lurker vs P and it's fine for mid game but when my opponent goes for a death ball of inmortal, archon, disruptor I don't know what Tier 3 unit add to my army. Ultras fall vs inmortals and BL aren't viable. Any advice?
I think bulya gave you good advice. Why do you say that broodlords aren't viable? Sounds like the perfect counter to archon-immortal-disruptor. If you dont have BL in time, make sure to have vipers to use abduct on disruptors . Have also a spire ready to make a huge muta switch once traded armies.
I have way more trouble when facing large phoenix armies. They pin me in 3 or 4 bases for too long completely blind. Is it wise to make non stop queens until the number of phoenix is stabilized? I also get killed pretty often with 3 base chargelot-immortal-archon pushes before lurker-den. What do you do first? Get the hydra upgrade or the lurker den?
EPT
the question was about "how to handle these air-toss-plays?" 
