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On February 29 2016 15:33 IcemanAsi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2016 20:59 Cascade wrote:On February 28 2016 20:51 IcemanAsi wrote:On February 28 2016 20:16 Cascade wrote:On February 28 2016 18:26 IcemanAsi wrote:
Has anyone ever tried playing a dedicated sky zerg?
Like skytoss basically, nothing on the ground but spines, total 3/4 base turtle.
double spire upgrades, corruptor/viper/muta/broodlord?
*thinking aloud*
You could add Bane drops for mass trolling, escort the overlords in with your air army and then drop the banes and leave Also theory-crafting, what would you do with all the minerals? Just mass mass spines? >_> queens maybe? Which matchup are we talking? I assume this is a very late game build, as you don't have anything shooting down until brood lords.  Don't think you can survive unitl broodlords on only spines, so you have to do some real tech before you get the BLs, and that will suffer if you start dumping resources into spire upgrades. :/ so I can only see it being useful at a very late split map scenario, with like 7 bases on each side... And at that point I think BLs are just too slow to be useful. The other guy, independently of race, can just go and kill the three bases you don't defend, and then go and kill the other 4 while you are trying to chase to defend. At best you can get some base-trade scenario, but again, I think you'll be too slow to win consistently. But yeah, just making stuff up that sounds good, I'd be happy to hear an actually competent player comment on this.  What you are describing ( late game transition to air) is basically broodlord/infestor endgame, which I think was proven viable a couple of times :D I was just wondering if anyone tried to get directly there, without a ground based mid-game, I assume no one did because just as you said, Zergs static defense simply isn't up to the task. Thou a mass queen + spine turtle into the air tech could be interesting. And yeah, all the minerals go toward spines and queens and a wack-a-mole expansion strategy. I sincerely hope that strategy is not viable. At least do some muta-ling on the way... ling runby is a great complement to a slow air army I'd think, and the ground melee upgrades helps the broodlings anyway. After a night of some ridiculous games... it's not that bad, pro viable? probably not. But works. Sure, you can NOT do it in ZvZ but I think that was a given and me trying was more for laughs, it wasn't that funny. But in ZvT this build absolutely demolishes mech play, mass Queens easy hold the mech early game harass options and you have broodlords and air advantage so early it's a little sad to see them try to actually get aggressive. Then again how mech play do we really see? This was also not that bad against passive protos play as the economy just snowballs so fast as you are spending literally zero laravae on units. But a dedicated 2 base push from either protoss or terran just kills you. I also found myself floating a ton of gas before hive which gave way to a very intresting idea I'm going to try tonight - Queen Infestor mid game. So it's open gasless into quick three base and constantly produce queens. Get your gas geysers once you're saturated and go lair then infestation pit, and make queen infestor, this would let you actually defend a mid game push and dump a lot of that gas, then take spire and get some harass with mutas while going for broodlords. It's a broodlord/infestor rush where your mid game queen infestor is 100% effective for your late game composition, and your mutas can either keep your opponent in his base or demolish his econ if he moves out. And if he moves out you fungal him like mad while queens and spines out range everything. Will it blend? no idea, will try tonight.
If you float gas and depend on queens for DPS, do the ranged damage upgrade. The queen (ground attack) is the unit that depends the most on attack upgrades in the game, with only 4 damage per attack. So +25% damage for +1 against no armour target, and more if the opponent does have armour naturally or through upgrades.
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On February 29 2016 16:13 Cascade wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2016 15:33 IcemanAsi wrote:On February 28 2016 20:59 Cascade wrote:On February 28 2016 20:51 IcemanAsi wrote:On February 28 2016 20:16 Cascade wrote:On February 28 2016 18:26 IcemanAsi wrote:
Has anyone ever tried playing a dedicated sky zerg?
Like skytoss basically, nothing on the ground but spines, total 3/4 base turtle.
double spire upgrades, corruptor/viper/muta/broodlord?
*thinking aloud*
You could add Bane drops for mass trolling, escort the overlords in with your air army and then drop the banes and leave Also theory-crafting, what would you do with all the minerals? Just mass mass spines? >_> queens maybe? Which matchup are we talking? I assume this is a very late game build, as you don't have anything shooting down until brood lords. Don't think you can survive unitl broodlords on only spines, so you have to do some real tech before you get the BLs, and that will suffer if you start dumping resources into spire upgrades. :/ so I can only see it being useful at a very late split map scenario, with like 7 bases on each side... And at that point I think BLs are just too slow to be useful. The other guy, independently of race, can just go and kill the three bases you don't defend, and then go and kill the other 4 while you are trying to chase to defend. At best you can get some base-trade scenario, but again, I think you'll be too slow to win consistently. But yeah, just making stuff up that sounds good, I'd be happy to hear an actually competent player comment on this. What you are describing ( late game transition to air) is basically broodlord/infestor endgame, which I think was proven viable a couple of times :D I was just wondering if anyone tried to get directly there, without a ground based mid-game, I assume no one did because just as you said, Zergs static defense simply isn't up to the task. Thou a mass queen + spine turtle into the air tech could be interesting. And yeah, all the minerals go toward spines and queens and a wack-a-mole expansion strategy. I sincerely hope that strategy is not viable. At least do some muta-ling on the way... ling runby is a great complement to a slow air army I'd think, and the ground melee upgrades helps the broodlings anyway. After a night of some ridiculous games... it's not that bad, pro viable? probably not. But works. Sure, you can NOT do it in ZvZ but I think that was a given and me trying was more for laughs, it wasn't that funny. But in ZvT this build absolutely demolishes mech play, mass Queens easy hold the mech early game harass options and you have broodlords and air advantage so early it's a little sad to see them try to actually get aggressive. Then again how mech play do we really see? This was also not that bad against passive protos play as the economy just snowballs so fast as you are spending literally zero laravae on units. But a dedicated 2 base push from either protoss or terran just kills you. I also found myself floating a ton of gas before hive which gave way to a very intresting idea I'm going to try tonight - Queen Infestor mid game. So it's open gasless into quick three base and constantly produce queens. Get your gas geysers once you're saturated and go lair then infestation pit, and make queen infestor, this would let you actually defend a mid game push and dump a lot of that gas, then take spire and get some harass with mutas while going for broodlords. It's a broodlord/infestor rush where your mid game queen infestor is 100% effective for your late game composition, and your mutas can either keep your opponent in his base or demolish his econ if he moves out. And if he moves out you fungal him like mad while queens and spines out range everything. Will it blend? no idea, will try tonight. If you float gas and depend on queens for DPS, do the ranged damage upgrade. The queen (ground attack) is the unit that depends the most on attack upgrades in the game, with only 4 damage per attack. So +25% damage for +1 against no armour target, and more if the opponent does have armour naturally or through upgrades.
If you have excess gas, wouldn't you go melee and ranged upgrades? Armour isn't needed. Melee for broodlings and ranged for queens.
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On February 29 2016 16:59 ThePastor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2016 16:13 Cascade wrote:On February 29 2016 15:33 IcemanAsi wrote:On February 28 2016 20:59 Cascade wrote:On February 28 2016 20:51 IcemanAsi wrote:On February 28 2016 20:16 Cascade wrote:On February 28 2016 18:26 IcemanAsi wrote:
Has anyone ever tried playing a dedicated sky zerg?
Like skytoss basically, nothing on the ground but spines, total 3/4 base turtle.
double spire upgrades, corruptor/viper/muta/broodlord?
*thinking aloud*
You could add Bane drops for mass trolling, escort the overlords in with your air army and then drop the banes and leave Also theory-crafting, what would you do with all the minerals? Just mass mass spines? >_> queens maybe? Which matchup are we talking? I assume this is a very late game build, as you don't have anything shooting down until brood lords. Don't think you can survive unitl broodlords on only spines, so you have to do some real tech before you get the BLs, and that will suffer if you start dumping resources into spire upgrades. :/ so I can only see it being useful at a very late split map scenario, with like 7 bases on each side... And at that point I think BLs are just too slow to be useful. The other guy, independently of race, can just go and kill the three bases you don't defend, and then go and kill the other 4 while you are trying to chase to defend. At best you can get some base-trade scenario, but again, I think you'll be too slow to win consistently. But yeah, just making stuff up that sounds good, I'd be happy to hear an actually competent player comment on this. What you are describing ( late game transition to air) is basically broodlord/infestor endgame, which I think was proven viable a couple of times :D I was just wondering if anyone tried to get directly there, without a ground based mid-game, I assume no one did because just as you said, Zergs static defense simply isn't up to the task. Thou a mass queen + spine turtle into the air tech could be interesting. And yeah, all the minerals go toward spines and queens and a wack-a-mole expansion strategy. I sincerely hope that strategy is not viable. At least do some muta-ling on the way... ling runby is a great complement to a slow air army I'd think, and the ground melee upgrades helps the broodlings anyway. After a night of some ridiculous games... it's not that bad, pro viable? probably not. But works. Sure, you can NOT do it in ZvZ but I think that was a given and me trying was more for laughs, it wasn't that funny. But in ZvT this build absolutely demolishes mech play, mass Queens easy hold the mech early game harass options and you have broodlords and air advantage so early it's a little sad to see them try to actually get aggressive. Then again how mech play do we really see? This was also not that bad against passive protos play as the economy just snowballs so fast as you are spending literally zero laravae on units. But a dedicated 2 base push from either protoss or terran just kills you. I also found myself floating a ton of gas before hive which gave way to a very intresting idea I'm going to try tonight - Queen Infestor mid game. So it's open gasless into quick three base and constantly produce queens. Get your gas geysers once you're saturated and go lair then infestation pit, and make queen infestor, this would let you actually defend a mid game push and dump a lot of that gas, then take spire and get some harass with mutas while going for broodlords. It's a broodlord/infestor rush where your mid game queen infestor is 100% effective for your late game composition, and your mutas can either keep your opponent in his base or demolish his econ if he moves out. And if he moves out you fungal him like mad while queens and spines out range everything. Will it blend? no idea, will try tonight. If you float gas and depend on queens for DPS, do the ranged damage upgrade. The queen (ground attack) is the unit that depends the most on attack upgrades in the game, with only 4 damage per attack. So +25% damage for +1 against no armour target, and more if the opponent does have armour naturally or through upgrades. If you have excess gas, wouldn't you go melee and ranged upgrades? Armour isn't needed. Melee for broodlings and ranged for queens.
I still think that rushing for BL with nothing but queens and spines leaves a huge gap for almost any kind of timing attack. Or just two medivacs with marines in the main? What about the 10-15 adepts that will shade past the spines? Blink stalkers up the cliff? Tankivacs? Adding in an extra 100/100 early on that you won't benefit from until long into T3 will only make the gap larger. But I'm around gold, so there may be things with these timings that I don't understand.
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On February 29 2016 17:15 Cascade wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2016 16:59 ThePastor wrote:On February 29 2016 16:13 Cascade wrote:On February 29 2016 15:33 IcemanAsi wrote:On February 28 2016 20:59 Cascade wrote:On February 28 2016 20:51 IcemanAsi wrote:On February 28 2016 20:16 Cascade wrote:On February 28 2016 18:26 IcemanAsi wrote:
Has anyone ever tried playing a dedicated sky zerg?
Like skytoss basically, nothing on the ground but spines, total 3/4 base turtle.
double spire upgrades, corruptor/viper/muta/broodlord?
*thinking aloud*
You could add Bane drops for mass trolling, escort the overlords in with your air army and then drop the banes and leave Also theory-crafting, what would you do with all the minerals? Just mass mass spines? >_> queens maybe? Which matchup are we talking? I assume this is a very late game build, as you don't have anything shooting down until brood lords. Don't think you can survive unitl broodlords on only spines, so you have to do some real tech before you get the BLs, and that will suffer if you start dumping resources into spire upgrades. :/ so I can only see it being useful at a very late split map scenario, with like 7 bases on each side... And at that point I think BLs are just too slow to be useful. The other guy, independently of race, can just go and kill the three bases you don't defend, and then go and kill the other 4 while you are trying to chase to defend. At best you can get some base-trade scenario, but again, I think you'll be too slow to win consistently. But yeah, just making stuff up that sounds good, I'd be happy to hear an actually competent player comment on this. What you are describing ( late game transition to air) is basically broodlord/infestor endgame, which I think was proven viable a couple of times :D I was just wondering if anyone tried to get directly there, without a ground based mid-game, I assume no one did because just as you said, Zergs static defense simply isn't up to the task. Thou a mass queen + spine turtle into the air tech could be interesting. And yeah, all the minerals go toward spines and queens and a wack-a-mole expansion strategy. I sincerely hope that strategy is not viable. At least do some muta-ling on the way... ling runby is a great complement to a slow air army I'd think, and the ground melee upgrades helps the broodlings anyway. After a night of some ridiculous games... it's not that bad, pro viable? probably not. But works. Sure, you can NOT do it in ZvZ but I think that was a given and me trying was more for laughs, it wasn't that funny. But in ZvT this build absolutely demolishes mech play, mass Queens easy hold the mech early game harass options and you have broodlords and air advantage so early it's a little sad to see them try to actually get aggressive. Then again how mech play do we really see? This was also not that bad against passive protos play as the economy just snowballs so fast as you are spending literally zero laravae on units. But a dedicated 2 base push from either protoss or terran just kills you. I also found myself floating a ton of gas before hive which gave way to a very intresting idea I'm going to try tonight - Queen Infestor mid game. So it's open gasless into quick three base and constantly produce queens. Get your gas geysers once you're saturated and go lair then infestation pit, and make queen infestor, this would let you actually defend a mid game push and dump a lot of that gas, then take spire and get some harass with mutas while going for broodlords. It's a broodlord/infestor rush where your mid game queen infestor is 100% effective for your late game composition, and your mutas can either keep your opponent in his base or demolish his econ if he moves out. And if he moves out you fungal him like mad while queens and spines out range everything. Will it blend? no idea, will try tonight. If you float gas and depend on queens for DPS, do the ranged damage upgrade. The queen (ground attack) is the unit that depends the most on attack upgrades in the game, with only 4 damage per attack. So +25% damage for +1 against no armour target, and more if the opponent does have armour naturally or through upgrades. If you have excess gas, wouldn't you go melee and ranged upgrades? Armour isn't needed. Melee for broodlings and ranged for queens. I still think that rushing for BL with nothing but queens and spines leaves a huge gap for almost any kind of timing attack. Or just two medivacs with marines in the main? What about the 10-15 adepts that will shade past the spines? Blink stalkers up the cliff? Tankivacs? Adding in an extra 100/100 early on that you won't benefit from until long into T3 will only make the gap larger. But I'm around gold, so there may be things with these timings that I don't understand.
Nah, you're pretty much spot-on, the question is how you get through the mid game, but you are slightly underestimating mass queens. I agree with you that the problem is exactly that, handling that mid game gap. Which is why I'm gonna try infestors. Probably not gonna work but I'm having fun.
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Guys what exactly am I supposed to do against mech ? It seems to be some new trend to revive the good old turtle mech (after having cried countless tears about how mech is absolutely not viable in Legacy..QQ..Qq...) and I find it close to impossible to beat.
6 out of my last 10 ZvTs were against mech and while I won all the bio games, I lost every single game vs mech.
So far my approach has been to mass expand (usually 4th and 5th at the same time, upon scouting that its mech) and then trying to delay their 4th with creep / burrowed lings. But even on 4 base Terran is more than easily able to max out a seemingly random composition of tank/thor/hellbat/viking/liberator/Battle Cruisers.
I tried to fight it with Corrupter/viper/BL and some ravagers but got stomped every time by some 90 apm gosu.
Any ideas ?
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is ZvZ still fuckin stupid when it comes to build orders, or can i settle on a pool/hatch opening without dying every other game to an all in? and what is the "proper" way of playing ZvZ right now? i see people doing literally anything with like random muta switches, muta into ultra, muta in lurker, whatever
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On March 01 2016 02:37 TequilaMockingbird wrote:
Guys what exactly am I supposed to do against mech ? It seems to be some new trend to revive the good old turtle mech (after having cried countless tears about how mech is absolutely not viable in Legacy..QQ..Qq...) and I find it close to impossible to beat.
6 out of my last 10 ZvTs were against mech and while I won all the bio games, I lost every single game vs mech.
So far my approach has been to mass expand (usually 4th and 5th at the same time, upon scouting that its mech) and then trying to delay their 4th with creep / burrowed lings. But even on 4 base Terran is more than easily able to max out a seemingly random composition of tank/thor/hellbat/viking/liberator/Battle Cruisers.
I tried to fight it with Corrupter/viper/BL and some ravagers but got stomped every time by some 90 apm gosu.
Any ideas ?
Mech is super immobile, so it will help to float maybe 3 full overlords with zerglings, that's only 12 army supply, and take out his reinforcements at his base when he pushes out. From there, I think lots of banelings will help, they're cheap on supply, and you should have plenty of money to roll half his army even without the upgrades. After his hellbats at the front are done, the rest will fall pretty easily to mass cracklings. Battlecruisers should be handled with corruptors, unfortunately. So I guess Ling Bling Corruptor is my best answer, with a handful of broodlords and vipers in the mix.
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On March 01 2016 02:37 TequilaMockingbird wrote:
Guys what exactly am I supposed to do against mech ? It seems to be some new trend to revive the good old turtle mech (after having cried countless tears about how mech is absolutely not viable in Legacy..QQ..Qq...) and I find it close to impossible to beat.
6 out of my last 10 ZvTs were against mech and while I won all the bio games, I lost every single game vs mech.
So far my approach has been to mass expand (usually 4th and 5th at the same time, upon scouting that its mech) and then trying to delay their 4th with creep / burrowed lings. But even on 4 base Terran is more than easily able to max out a seemingly random composition of tank/thor/hellbat/viking/liberator/Battle Cruisers.
I tried to fight it with Corrupter/viper/BL and some ravagers but got stomped every time by some 90 apm gosu.
Any ideas ?
Don't ever let it get to the uber late game against mech or it's almost an auto loss unless you have some sick nasty caster control.
Execute a fast Roach/Hydra/Viper timing anytime it's scouted, the key is to spread it thin and kill it quick. Especially after the PB nerf went through Vipers aren;'t the end all be all mech killer they used to be.
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On March 01 2016 03:50 Aocowns wrote:
is ZvZ still fuckin stupid when it comes to build orders, or can i settle on a pool/hatch opening without dying every other game to an all in? and what is the "proper" way of playing ZvZ right now? i see people doing literally anything with like random muta switches, muta into ultra, muta in lurker, whatever
17h/17g/17p is a fine opener in ZvZ, I do it literally 100% of the time. Very rarely do I die in the early game. Every once in awhile I will get killed by an early pool/baneling all in. I want to say muta openings are probably the most standard. How you play is dependant on what you like, do you enjoy muta vs muta? If you do, open muta. Are you confident defending mass muta? Then go roach/ravager opener.
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On March 01 2016 05:37 ThePastor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2016 03:50 Aocowns wrote:
is ZvZ still fuckin stupid when it comes to build orders, or can i settle on a pool/hatch opening without dying every other game to an all in? and what is the "proper" way of playing ZvZ right now? i see people doing literally anything with like random muta switches, muta into ultra, muta in lurker, whatever 17h/17g/17p is a fine opener in ZvZ, I do it literally 100% of the time. Very rarely do I die in the early game. Every once in awhile I will get killed by an early pool/baneling all in. I want to say muta openings are probably the most standard. How you play is dependant on what you like, do you enjoy muta vs muta? If you do, open muta. Are you confident defending mass muta? Then go roach/ravager opener.
so whats the response to like 12 pool with some 17-19hatch when you go hatch first yourself? ling/bane all in and sac natural? or can i just pool larvae to build lings and wait until im sure hes not doing an early pool?
and if it ends up in a muta vs muta scenario, what is optimal? sacrificing muta production to get vipers for support, or literally just mass muta and try to pressure him if he wants to tech past it?
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On March 01 2016 05:46 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2016 05:37 ThePastor wrote:On March 01 2016 03:50 Aocowns wrote:
is ZvZ still fuckin stupid when it comes to build orders, or can i settle on a pool/hatch opening without dying every other game to an all in? and what is the "proper" way of playing ZvZ right now? i see people doing literally anything with like random muta switches, muta into ultra, muta in lurker, whatever 17h/17g/17p is a fine opener in ZvZ, I do it literally 100% of the time. Very rarely do I die in the early game. Every once in awhile I will get killed by an early pool/baneling all in. I want to say muta openings are probably the most standard. How you play is dependant on what you like, do you enjoy muta vs muta? If you do, open muta. Are you confident defending mass muta? Then go roach/ravager opener. so whats the response to like 12 pool with some 17-19hatch when you go hatch first yourself? ling/bane all in and sac natural? or can i just pool larvae to build lings and wait until im sure hes not doing an early pool? and if it ends up in a muta vs muta scenario, what is optimal? sacrificing muta production to get vipers for support, or literally just mass muta and try to pressure him if he wants to tech past it?
Depends on your situation in the Muta wars. I feel like whenenver I get the earlier Spire or the faster gas saturation on my third that I can probably out muscle him by sheer Mutalisk number advantage.
If the flip side happens and your behind I feel like you need to make the choice, can you survive and turtle under spores until Hive and Vipers come out or do you need to land that clutch fungal right now.
Honestly, PB feels pretty....weak....after the last patch.
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On March 01 2016 05:46 Aocowns wrote:
and if it ends up in a muta vs muta scenario, what is optimal? sacrificing muta production to get vipers for support, or literally just mass muta and try to pressure him if he wants to tech past it?
This you have to play by experience and by feel. There are so many variables that it is hard to tell you exactly what to do.
For example, if you and the other player have the same mass of mutas and you see him going Hive tech you can build more mutas in the short run and try to be super aggressive before the vipers come out and gathered enough energy to hurt your flock.
Even when the vipers are out, you can split your muta flocks to harrass in such a way that it is hard for the vipers to do any damage (if your micro are good enough).
The key though is to be adaptive and keep playing the game...take a 4th, 5th...tech up yourself...focus on another tech (Ultras and lurkers [for defense])...
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Does anyone have any advice for holding these proxy 4rax marine builds I've been seeing more of lately? I've seen this 3x in my past 15 ZvTs and haven't held it once. I'm a Platinum/Diamond player.
http://sc2replaystats.com/replay/2476383
Keep natural. 3x spines & speed and baneling nest. They can walk past my spines to kill the natural. I blow through all my units to kill his marines with banes and but they still has enough to push through.
http://sc2replaystats.com/replay/2476507
Okay, maybe I have to cancel the natural and build an in-base macro for production. 4x spines. They just contain and get tanks and the game ends up in a silly place.
I think next time I'll try keeping the natural (think this is required) and getting a spine over to the natural to defend. Suppose it might matter if the natural is backdoor or not. I'm usually scouting these out early w a drone scout, so it's not a total surprise.
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On March 01 2016 05:46 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2016 05:37 ThePastor wrote:On March 01 2016 03:50 Aocowns wrote:
is ZvZ still fuckin stupid when it comes to build orders, or can i settle on a pool/hatch opening without dying every other game to an all in? and what is the "proper" way of playing ZvZ right now? i see people doing literally anything with like random muta switches, muta into ultra, muta in lurker, whatever 17h/17g/17p is a fine opener in ZvZ, I do it literally 100% of the time. Very rarely do I die in the early game. Every once in awhile I will get killed by an early pool/baneling all in. I want to say muta openings are probably the most standard. How you play is dependant on what you like, do you enjoy muta vs muta? If you do, open muta. Are you confident defending mass muta? Then go roach/ravager opener. so whats the response to like 12 pool with some 17-19hatch when you go hatch first yourself? ling/bane all in and sac natural? or can i just pool larvae to build lings and wait until im sure hes not doing an early pool? and if it ends up in a muta vs muta scenario, what is optimal? sacrificing muta production to get vipers for support, or literally just mass muta and try to pressure him if he wants to tech past it?
If I scout an early pool coming (ie see the lings on the way out the door) I generally stop droning save minerals. Get two queens building ASAP, sneak a drone down to my natural and plant a spine instantly. Generally, your lings will be almost popping when they get to your base, it is about buying time while your lings get out. Do not commit to any fight with drones or lings unless it is 100% obvious you will trade super favourably. Remember, you have an extra hatch and queen. Even if you only trade equally you will end up ahead. Any moment you are feeling safe build one or two drones and then add a few lings if you feel unsure.
If you feel really uncomfortable opening hatch first you can drone scout on 14. Yes, this is less efficient and will put you slightly behind in hatch first vs hatch first. It will enable you to see the lings coming faster and enable you to start prepping what you are going to do, maybe place your pool earlier etc. I did this at first while I was getting used to the new LoTV timings, but stopped doing it when I got confident.
Every once in awhile you will just miss out on all scouting warnings due to RNG bad luck and 8 lings and 4 banes will just turn up on your doorstep and you insta lose, just gg out and accept that.
On top of this you can either skip speed and get a bane nest asap or just go speed. This really depends on what is going on in the game.
As for the Muta discussion the other guys covered it fairly well so I don't think you need to.
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How do you execute ravager/roach/infestor combo? I mean how do you control that army (control groups mainly and if you tab key).
I have a trouble doing FAST fungal -> corrosive bile combo. Often before I even cast the biles fungal fades and marines or whatever can move away.
Also how long does it take for corrosive bile to fall down since it's casted already? And fungal lasts 3 secs, right?
So perhaps I should cast bile first then fungal?
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On March 02 2016 06:35 Overfly wrote:
How do you execute ravager/roach/infestor combo? I mean how do you control that army (control groups mainly and if you tab key).
I have a trouble doing FAST fungal -> corrosive bile combo. Often before I even cast the biles fungal fades and marines or whatever can move away.
Also how long does it take for corrosive bile to fall down since it's casted already? And fungal lasts 3 secs, right?
So perhaps I should cast bile first then fungal?
I have 6 control groups that I use for armies:
Melee (lings and ultras)
Range (roach, ravager, hydra)
Banes or Mutas (banes early, mutas later, with banes going to melee tab)
Infestors
Vipers
Broodlords and corruptors
I do the following:
Group 3, attack command, rapid fire about half of my biles, group 4, fungal, group 3 finish biles
I doubt it's perfect, but it works.
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Is there a page that gives the 101 of build order counters for ZvZ?
Also, one specific question: what does hatch first v. speedling expand (or baneling all-in) look like? (I know hatch first "can" hold, but does one side have an advantage?)
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I am new to zerg, and I am wondering if there are there any good vods and tutorials how to beat meching terran in WOL as zerg? In the second time in one week I had a brutal and unfun game vs a meching terran. I am top 8 diamond in wol (currently 1st), yet my last game was vs some 7 time plat (and he played badly too), but I just can't seem to get anything to work vs a meching terrran.
Its like thors kills every unit I use (hydra/roach/mutas/corruptors/broods) and marines kill lings easily while tanks and planataries make some positions unbreakable. In the meantime terran has the air for free.
I keep hearing broods/infestors, but I can't seem to get it to work. Seems broods just die to vikings, ravens or thors while the terran laughs with his planateries.
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On March 02 2016 11:20 Hotshot wrote:
I am new to zerg, and I am wondering if there are there any good vods and tutorials how to beat meching terran in WOL as zerg? In the second time in one week I had a brutal and unfun game vs a meching terran. I am top 8 diamond in wol (currently 1st), yet my last game was vs some 7 time plat (and he played badly too), but I just can't seem to get anything to work vs a meching terrran.
Its like thors kills every unit I use (hydra/roach/mutas/corruptors/broods) and marines kill lings easily while tanks and planataries make some positions unbreakable. In the meantime terran has the air for free.
I keep hearing broods/infestors, but I can't seem to get it to work. Seems broods just die to vikings, ravens or thors while the terran laughs with his planateries.
how to fight mech is a complicated subject but you don't mention queens - when youre going for a hive deathball as zerg having queens to transfuse units like ultras, brood lords, overseers, vipers and infestors really helps (anywhere from 5-15 depending on the game). queens are also really good at damaging fragile air units in engagements because of their high AA range. massing vipers and evolution chambers (to consume for more viper energy) is also useful
there are so many different compositions a mech player can have that there's no one answer, it's really all about doing hard, massive tech switches to reduce his army size or deny bases at critical moments while continuing to expand. focus on holding important positions - like if he's on 3 base , set up your army in an open area near where he wants to take his 4th and be very careful and patient, then try to take the best engagement you can and remax on units he will be weak to after the fight. but you don't want to just force into a base he already has set up with a planetary, that's where mech is strong
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EPT
