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BiiG-Fr
Canada109 Posts
On December 03 2015 01:40 htpkAzrael wrote: Does anyone have any tips on holding pylon rushes in TVP? Both if you are going one base and again if you expand on low ground. A bunker to wall your main, Target the msc with the bunker, or any ennemy units (avoid shooting at pylons), and 6 scv ready to repair the bunker (2 per pylon in range). | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
On December 03 2015 04:17 BiiG-Fr wrote: A bunker to wall your main, Target the msc with the bunker, or any ennemy units (avoid shooting at pylons), and 6 scv ready to repair the bunker (2 per pylon in range). I assume the answer here is yes but lets assume I did the following: lowground CC first 3 rax Would I float my CC back into my main, lift off the rax I used to wall and replace it with a bunker? | ||
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Guillermoman
24 Posts
On December 03 2015 03:14 TimeSpiral wrote: Sometimes we (Archon) favor a bunker at the main's ramp in TvP. If you sniff out a PO rush (perhaps with a scouting reaper, or you see the pylons going up), take the fight out on the map to kill the MSC before it's in range of the pylons, just remember to bring a few SCVs to help with the fight. It's one of those situations where if you find yourself with 2-3 pylons shooting you, you've already made a potentially game-ending mistake. This is one of the reasons we favor the multiple rax opener (even when fast-expanding), as opposed to a greedy reactor. The reactor is great, but it is super greedy, imho. We will 2-rax expand, or CC-first into fast 3-rax (cut scvs). Src: Diamond Archon Team. We are bad at this game. I held this quite easily on Ulrena with an early Cyclone. The Cyclone with Lock On outranges the pylon overcharge while still being visible from the ramp. Game below: http://sc2replaystats.com/replay/2121825 I think that the early Cyclone is the answer. However, the 1-1-1 build I used probably only works on Ulrena (and maybe Orbital Shipyard); the other maps are too big. I do think the TY bunker (@ bottom of ramp) is also good too if you don't want to commit to a 1-1-1. | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
1rax FE depot, bunker (at nat) 2x Rax (build them somewhat hidden in your main, with your second marine patrol him where OLs generally come in) 2x Gas (hopefully an SCV knows some ling numbers. If they're low move out with 5-6 marines to scare the Zerg and push back creep. If he has expanded greedy sometimes you can get drone kills here -- sometimes even doing game ending damage.) Tech Rax -> Stim then CB Fact (reactor) CC Port Port swaps Fact, build 2x Medivac [Reactor your rax while moving out, float your third, build 2 ebay, add 2 more gas, then move up to 5 then 7 rax] At this point you have over 2 medivacs worth of marines with stim. CB should finish before you push out in earnest. Since you've expanded and not cut you don't HAVE to kill a ton but you should be able to get some decent damage out here. If you do absolutely no damage you haven't immediately lost the game but you aren't looking to be in fantastic shape. I honestly like the build because it gets your upgrades going fast, gives you a bunch of bio and medivac. | ||
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TimeSpiral
United States1010 Posts
On December 03 2015 04:42 Guillermoman wrote: I held this quite easily on Ulrena with an early Cyclone. The Cyclone with Lock On outranges the pylon overcharge while still being visible from the ramp. Game below: http://sc2replaystats.com/replay/2121825 I think that the early Cyclone is the answer. However, the 1-1-1 build I used probably only works on Ulrena (and maybe Orbital Shipyard); the other maps are too big. I do think the TY bunker (@ bottom of ramp) is also good too if you don't want to commit to a 1-1-1. Not 100% on board with the TerranShip Core play yet. Maybe one day we will be ... | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
Rax, Gas, Gas, 3x Reapers, Fact, Port, Cloak Banshee, CC I then tech the rax, get stim, add 2 more raxes. After 2 banshee I float off the tech and give it to the fact to move into tank production and reactor the port and make medivacs. It feels like I get all the tech I need and gives me the ability to really punish greed | ||
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terran4lyfe
United States72 Posts
More standard is a normal reaper fast expand, 1-2 reapers is all you really need. One Seras you can easily skip the 2nd reaper, or just go marines since there's no way into the main base except the ramp. 1-1-1 is always the followup, and you have your choice of being defensive (cyclone+viking/raven) or offensive with banshee or some sort of drop with mines or hellions etc. A quick 3rd CC is fairly standard before adding on extra barracks production, but you can also quickly go into 5 barracks and an ebay and delay the 3rd CC until about 7-7 and a half minutes if you want to be on the map earlier with pressure with marines tanks and medivacs. Proper timing and scouting with a fast expand build can easily thwart gas first builds, but micro positioning etc. can also reverse the outcome. | ||
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Ctone23
United States1839 Posts
On December 04 2015 00:03 Tenks wrote: I'm now mid Diamond and I wonder if the build I've adapted from my WoL days (which is working out great for me) is worth pursing more. I had to give it up once the queen buff was introduced and once Zergs got better at creep spread but it feels with the LotV eco it is back to being viable. 1rax FE depot, bunker (at nat) 2x Rax (build them somewhat hidden in your main, with your second marine patrol him where OLs generally come in) 2x Gas (hopefully an SCV knows some ling numbers. If they're low move out with 5-6 marines to scare the Zerg and push back creep. If he has expanded greedy sometimes you can get drone kills here -- sometimes even doing game ending damage.) Tech Rax -> Stim then CB Fact (reactor) CC Port Port swaps Fact, build 2x Medivac [Reactor your rax while moving out, float your third, build 2 ebay, add 2 more gas, then move up to 5 then 7 rax] At this point you have over 2 medivacs worth of marines with stim. CB should finish before you push out in earnest. Since you've expanded and not cut you don't HAVE to kill a ton but you should be able to get some decent damage out here. If you do absolutely no damage you haven't immediately lost the game but you aren't looking to be in fantastic shape. I honestly like the build because it gets your upgrades going fast, gives you a bunch of bio and medivac. I've been doing this as well, reaper expand doesn't feel worth it in TvZ. | ||
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OutSide
Ukraine3 Posts
So, how can i counter 4 supply tempest (with storms\disruptors) in lategame tvp? What army i should have? | ||
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PinheadXXXXXX
United States897 Posts
On December 04 2015 06:26 Ctone23 wrote: I've been doing this as well, reaper expand doesn't feel worth it in TvZ. I agree about reaper expand, but only if you are getting hellions. A lot of terrans seem to be doing hellion-less builds with a tank and maybe a liberator, and an early third with early followup barracks. For a build like this, you need a reaper, and you need to save it, because it's the only real map presence you will have up until 6:30 or so, aside from liberators which don't really give that much map control anyway. On December 04 2015 07:06 OutSide wrote: Hello everyone, need help. So, how can i counter 4 supply tempest (with storms\disruptors) in lategame tvp? What army i should have? You should be able to play around them on large maps, and on small maps, you should be able to restrict Protoss's expansions enough to prevent more than 10 tempests, which you can still handle quite effectively with vikings. Continue to play MMMGV with liberators, and note that it's much more viable to split this army in lategame than it was in HotS. | ||
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Ctone23
United States1839 Posts
On December 04 2015 10:14 PinheadXXXXXX wrote: I agree about reaper expand, but only if you are getting hellions. A lot of terrans seem to be doing hellion-less builds with a tank and maybe a liberator, and an early third with early followup barracks. For a build like this, you need a reaper, and you need to save it, because it's the only real map presence you will have up until 6:30 or so, aside from liberators which don't really give that much map control anyway. Should I still throw down the 3rd CC before my starport? I'm also curious if you or anyone else has tried using the ghost against ultras? | ||
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terran4lyfe
United States72 Posts
Reapers still have a short shelf life (and are objectively worse in TvP), but they're still one of the more consistent units in terms of getting information and are a completely normal and standard unit to make first in the game. Ghosts are the best unit against Ultras bar none, but unless you can pressure the Zerg enough throughout the game (really try and contest their 4th etc.), seeing Ultras is often a death knell. Late game TvZ will look more like late game TvP with ghosts primarily used to take out high value tier 3 units like Broodlords and Ultras, you just need many many ghosts. At least 10. Liberators can work on Ultras fine, but only if you can force a fight on your terms where the Ultras have to run and fight under the Liberators, which is not a reliable gameplan. | ||
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starslayer
United States696 Posts
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JWD[9]
364 Posts
On December 04 2015 07:06 OutSide wrote: Hello everyone, need help. So, how can i counter 4 supply tempest (with storms\disruptors) in lategame tvp? What army i should have? Well, ghosts for emp vs templar and shields. If the tempest is the unit that gives you the biggest headache, a raven pdd works wonders, though vikings are just terrbile. Cyclones with upgraded lock on or if you can get under them, stimmed marines(if ghosts cleared the storms). | ||
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Senryakku
France16 Posts
My opener is the Ty build ( reaper fe, rax reactor, cyclone to defend and fast third CC ) | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
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PinheadXXXXXX
United States897 Posts
On December 06 2015 11:28 JWD[9] wrote: Well, ghosts for emp vs templar and shields. If the tempest is the unit that gives you the biggest headache, a raven pdd works wonders, though vikings are just terrbile. Cyclones with upgraded lock on or if you can get under them, stimmed marines(if ghosts cleared the storms). Raven PDD isn't so good anymore, and cyclones are incredibly out of the way currently. It's best to deal with tempests right now assuming you cannot beat them straight up; focus on avoiding the army and killing the economy, or killing protoss before tempests, instead of figuring out how to win fights and taking them head-on. On December 06 2015 11:33 Senryakku wrote: Any tips against protoss ? I've only won like 9 games out of 24. Honestly it just feels even worse than in hots. My opener is the Ty build ( reaper fe, rax reactor, cyclone to defend and fast third CC ) In what manner are you losing? I do the TY build as well, with a few modifications, and I haven't been having a ton of trouble in the matchup. | ||
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terran4lyfe
United States72 Posts
On December 05 2015 16:55 starslayer wrote: I've have seen and played against a lot of 2 reaper 2 hellion stuff in tvt if you know what im talking about is there a build order? Im kinda winging it and its feels off. I mostly stopped writing down builds exactly but the Korean TvT generally goes like this: Supply Depot Gas Barracks [Make 2 Reaper, then make a tech lab and then make a reactor] Gas [2nd one] Factory [Make about 3 Hellions, more if you can snowball, transition into Tanks soon after] Orbital Command Center Supply Depot Starport [Switch onto tech lab made with barracks and then about 2 banshees] Rally everything forward or to your Reaper(s) and constantly poke and pressure. If you want to be completely safe from gas first stuff, do this build, except make a Raven and Cyclone first. You will expand around 4:30m-5:00m. ForGG transitions by making 2 reactors with the Starport after the Banshees and then going up to 5 Barracks. If you did a lot of damage with the Reaper Hellion and Banshee, you can probably push with a couple Tanks and a handful of Marines (as long they don't have tanks sieged up). | ||
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hostilekid
Canada11 Posts
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Bojas
Netherlands2397 Posts
On December 06 2015 22:23 hostilekid wrote: Yeah, I'm completely lost in TvZ guys. I'm playing on KR (Diamond atm) since I live here and the meta seems around the same as NA. What are some solid openers? I try drop play but it gets shut down by early roaches or I just get blinged all inned. I agree with the statement about reapers - they just seem to have a short shelf life. Post some replays if you're losing vs allins. Tbh I don't think there are solid builds out there yet like we had in HotS, I've just been freestyling a bit and it seems to work okay. Focus on the basics of SC2: micro, macro, nailing your upgrades, no supply blocks etc. You could play HotS builds and be masters on KR I'm sure. It's hard to have solid builds because the variety of builds that the zerg race has is now increased and they all require a different approach as the Terran. If Zergs go ling bling muta, hit a nice timing with liberators to counter the mutas, if they play roach ravager try your hardest to outmultitask them using drops to prolong their timing where they have 180ish supply and you'd still be at 140ish. Remember they have no way to kill your dropships so you should absolutely exploit the hell out of that. Against nydus I have had the most success with scouting the lair and getting a few tanks out, but that might not be the best answer. If you scout an early-midgame ravager push you basically need banshees or superb tankivac micro. I could ramble on for days on the matchup but you should really post replays for a more concise answer. | ||
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