|
The annoying thing about gateway scouting is that it's almost useless against anything that isn't proxy barracks.
I love my 4:00-4:15 scout where if my opponent went reaper expo, I can see everything before the 2 marines are out (if he went for a factory followup or additional barracks) and often even force the reaper back to chase down my probe; if my opponent has marines, I can check the CC timing to understand whether he went 11 gas, 15 gas, or gasless marine expand.
Compared to a gateway scout, you save about 50 minerals. Is it worth it to spend 50 minerals every game in order to not lose against proxy barracks? It depends on how often that happens. Probably something about 1 game out of 20. Which doesn't make it worth it for me.
Nowadays I'm doing something like this, for example on overgrowth:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/paEy8pq.jpg)
Scouting proxy barracks at 3:00~3:10 might be enough. I also bank the 4th chronoboost until I confirmed no proxy. Which means I can always let my zealot finish, not start the nexus, and chronoboost stalker& msc out as soon as core finishes.
The reason why I think it's optimal is because you need to take a weird route so that the probe isn't intercepted by a possible reaper anyway.
|
|
|
@KingAlphard
Most of the times I've seen Zest gateway scout, he went 1 stalker 1 sentry and 2 gates instead of 3 stalkers on 1 gate. By doing that, you can rule out gas first builds - which are easier to deal with if you do a 3 stalker opening - and any other funky build that could be tricky to handle without stalkers 2 and 3 very early. Needless to say, this also rules out proxy 2 raxes. And if the terran doesn't try to trap your probe by getting a second supply depot earlier than usual, you can send it back.
As for cybercore scouting, you may be able to chrono boost your stalker and msc reactively, but only if you always bank your 4th chrono boost preemptively until you rule out the build. By the time you're done scouting the outskirts of your natural, it's probably too late to chrono boost your probes a 4th time. That puts you 2 probes behind - your scouting probe will most likely not make it back to your base, and you won't be able to chrono probes a 4th time until your msc comes out and your third pylon finishes. That being said, cybercore scouting gives you more mid game specific information if the terran's ramp isn't walled, so that's something to consider if you're doing a blink build and intend to skip detection.
@SatedSC2
Proxy 2 gates are much harder to hold blindly though. But you can still hold them if they're not in your main. Although there's that game where Rain scouted Huk's proxy in his main no Overgrowth, refused to go up to 3 gates, and didn't send his probes across the map like PartinG did against Classic. PartinG vs Classic on Habitation Station shows that you can win against an unscouted proxy 2 gate if it's not in your main. I've actually done that once or twice.
|
On January 20 2015 00:45 vhapter wrote:
@KingAlphard
Most of the times I've seen Zest gateway scout, he went 1 stalker 1 sentry and 2 gates instead of 3 stalkers on 1 gate. By doing that, you can rule out gas first builds - which are easier to deal with if you do a 3 stalker opening - and any other funky build that could be tricky to handle without stalkers 2 and 3 very early. Needless to say, this also rules out proxy 2 raxes. And if the terran doesn't try to trap your probe by getting a second supply depot earlier than usual, you can send it back.
As for cybercore scouting, you may be able to chrono boost your stalker and msc reactively, but only if you always bank your 4th chrono boost preemptively until you rule out the build. By the time you're done scouting the outskirts of your natural, it's probably too late to chrono boost your probes a 4th time. That puts you 2 probes behind - your scouting probe will most likely not make it back to your base, and you won't be able to chrono probes a 4th time until your msc comes out and your third pylon finishes. That being said, cybercore scouting gives you more mid game specific information if the terran's ramp isn't walled, so that's something to consider if you're doing a blink build and intend to skip detection.
Consider that a gateway scout reaches your opponent's base more or less by the time you start your cybernetics core. So, it's only like 20 seconds of advantage, compared to a cyber core scout in the most obvious proxy barracks spots. That doesn't give you any advantage: you'll still have 3 chronoboosts used on probes, you'll still let the zealot finish and start stalker/mothership core.
It's definitely more optimal to scout the proxy where it's placed, because it's closer to your base and it makes you lose less mining time. Naturally, you can't be 100 % sure to find them. But finding them most of the times is enough.
You don't need a ton of stalkers immediately against gas first. Dealing with the first 2 hellions runby can be done with 1 stalker and 1 mothership core. After that, it's all a matter of pulling probes properly against widow mines, and microing your stalkers. I wouldn't say that knowing it's coming at 3:00 instead of 4:15 when it hits at 6:15 (?) is a big deal.
|
On January 20 2015 01:13 KingAlphard wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2015 00:45 vhapter wrote:
@KingAlphard
Most of the times I've seen Zest gateway scout, he went 1 stalker 1 sentry and 2 gates instead of 3 stalkers on 1 gate. By doing that, you can rule out gas first builds - which are easier to deal with if you do a 3 stalker opening - and any other funky build that could be tricky to handle without stalkers 2 and 3 very early. Needless to say, this also rules out proxy 2 raxes. And if the terran doesn't try to trap your probe by getting a second supply depot earlier than usual, you can send it back.
As for cybercore scouting, you may be able to chrono boost your stalker and msc reactively, but only if you always bank your 4th chrono boost preemptively until you rule out the build. By the time you're done scouting the outskirts of your natural, it's probably too late to chrono boost your probes a 4th time. That puts you 2 probes behind - your scouting probe will most likely not make it back to your base, and you won't be able to chrono probes a 4th time until your msc comes out and your third pylon finishes. That being said, cybercore scouting gives you more mid game specific information if the terran's ramp isn't walled, so that's something to consider if you're doing a blink build and intend to skip detection.
Consider that a gateway scout reaches your opponent's base more or less by the time you start your cybernetics core. So, it's only like 20 seconds of advantage, compared to a cyber core scout in the most obvious proxy barracks spots. That doesn't give you any advantage: you'll still have 3 chronoboosts used on probes, you'll still let the zealot finish and start stalker/mothership core. It's definitely more optimal to scout the proxy where it's placed, because it's closer to your base and it makes you lose less mining time. Naturally, you can't be 100 % sure to find them. But finding them most of the times is enough. You don't need a ton of stalkers immediately against gas first. Dealing with the first 2 hellions runby can be done with 1 stalker and 1 mothership core. After that, it's all a matter of pulling probes properly against widow mines, and microing your stalkers. I wouldn't say that knowing it's coming at 3:00 instead of 4:15 when it hits at 6:15 (?) is a big deal.
Of course you shouldn't spend your 4th chrono boost on probes if you scout a proxy 2 rax. My point is that you don't have to save that chrono boost if you gateway scout and see the terran is playing standard, whereas you have to save it blindly if you cybercore scout.
The thing about scouting gas first openers when you open stalker sentry is that you won't commit to a sentry blindly. If you're going msc expand with a robo and 3 stalker, you can definitely deal with gas first without scouting. Dealing with 2 hellions when you have 1-2 stalkers and a msc is one thing, but having 1 stalker and 1 sentry when a marine widow drop hits with hellions lurking outside your natural is very different.
Knowing it's coming at 4:15 is perfectly fine since you won't have commited to making a sentry yet. But as far as I know, you can't rely on this delayed probe scout against non-reaper openers, since there will be marines out to greet your probe. If you gateway scout and see the barracks finished at 3:00, you know for a fact that it's a gas first opener.
Of course, cybercore scouting has its pros, but we've already talked about them. If you think the pros of cybercore scouting outweigh those of gateway scouting for the build you're doing or your style in general, that's fine. One of the pros of gateway scouting is reliability, which is something to take into account. Also, I don't think scouting whether the terran went for a factory or 2-3 rax after the initial reaper is particularly important at all. Whenever I scout for proxies in PvT after my cyberccore, I always send my probe back to build my nexus and get 3 stalkers anyway.
|
What you ask is like "how can i survive a proxy 2 gate + cyber" with hatch pool hatch or racks cc cc.
If you play greedy, you have to either take a risk or do a scout. You cant think there is a build which plays out greedy, nonscout and save against wired all ins.
But when i would still be on this way, no scout, greed style, i would never go 20/21 nexus into MSC. 20/21 nexus and then directly a stalker(chrono) should help you way more against wired all ins. You stalker can cite the marines, you brobes will support the stalker and with 2 stalkers and one msc you should be able to hold 2 proxy baracks with the lose of maybe 4-6 brobes. Thats still a good number despite the fact, that you should be arround 8 worker ahead and 2nd base.
3 racks (scv) pull is such a all in (do or die) without any transition at all, that it has to be scoutet to have easier times (or no greed play). You can compare it to "cc, racks, cc, 2xengi, 2xgas"-builds against 4 gates. No scout + greedy = death, when you enemy all ins. You have to scout or it is just a gamble.
|
You need to ask yourself what the point of such a fast Nexus is versus such a committed attack:
If you survive with the Nexus intact, and you got that Nexus 30 seconds faster than the typical FE, you're really far ahead.
If you survive with the Nexus intact, with no critical losses you're still ahead.
StarCraft isn't a game about beating your opponent by leaps and bounds, it's about gaining as many advantages as possible and winning by any margin (which is typically small if you're playing against equally competent and skilled players).
It sounds like you're operating on scrub logic; you want to play your own game without respecting what your opponent is doing.
|
On January 20 2015 04:05 Gamegene wrote:
You need to ask yourself what the point of such a fast Nexus is versus such a committed attack:
If you survive with the Nexus intact, and you got that Nexus 30 seconds faster than the typical FE, you're really far ahead.
If you survive with the Nexus intact, with no critical losses you're still ahead.
StarCraft isn't a game about beating your opponent by leaps and bounds, it's about gaining as many advantages as possible and winning by any margin (which is typically small if you're playing against equally competent and skilled players).
It sounds like you're operating on scrub logic; you want to play your own game without respecting what your opponent is doing.
The point of this fast nexus is to have a similar expansion timing as a player who is going for a reaper expand. I feel that if you get your natural expansion after a terran, you are slightly behind in economy.
It may be scrub logic, but I would like to maximize economy while minimizing risk to all ins at the same time. I personally don't like to probe scout in early game. That's a stylistic choice of mine, and I would prefer to play a safer opening if necessary rather than probe scout.
On January 20 2015 03:27 Clonester wrote:
What you ask is like "how can i survive a proxy 2 gate + cyber" with hatch pool hatch or racks cc cc.
If you play greedy, you have to either take a risk or do a scout. You cant think there is a build which plays out greedy, nonscout and save against wired all ins.
But when i would still be on this way, no scout, greed style, i would never go 20/21 nexus into MSC. 20/21 nexus and then directly a stalker(chrono) should help you way more against wired all ins. You stalker can cite the marines, you brobes will support the stalker and with 2 stalkers and one msc you should be able to hold 2 proxy baracks with the lose of maybe 4-6 brobes. Thats still a good number despite the fact, that you should be arround 8 worker ahead and 2nd base.
3 racks (scv) pull is such a all in (do or die) without any transition at all, that it has to be scoutet to have easier times (or no greed play). You can compare it to "cc, racks, cc, 2xengi, 2xgas"-builds against 4 gates. No scout + greedy = death, when you enemy all ins. You have to scout or it is just a gamble.
To be fair, the protoss equivalent of Hatch pool hatch or racks CC CC would be a nexus first. The build that I am talking about although greedy as well, is not as greedy as nexus first, hatch pool hatch, or racks CC CC.
The main problem with going stalker after the nexus with my build is that it will not be out in time to deal with the reaper even if it is cronoboosted. There will be about 10-20 seconds of time where the reaper can attack probes.
Nexus starts @ 3:35. You have 0 minerals at this point. Now you need to wait to get 125 minerals before you can start the stalker. For reference, the MSC starts at 3:43, we have 100 mins at this point. The MSC builds quickly only 20 seconds with cronoboost, and finishes just in time for the reaper. A stalker cost more minerals and takes 32 seconds with a cronoboost.
|
On January 20 2015 02:55 vhapter wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2015 01:13 KingAlphard wrote:On January 20 2015 00:45 vhapter wrote:
@KingAlphard
Most of the times I've seen Zest gateway scout, he went 1 stalker 1 sentry and 2 gates instead of 3 stalkers on 1 gate. By doing that, you can rule out gas first builds - which are easier to deal with if you do a 3 stalker opening - and any other funky build that could be tricky to handle without stalkers 2 and 3 very early. Needless to say, this also rules out proxy 2 raxes. And if the terran doesn't try to trap your probe by getting a second supply depot earlier than usual, you can send it back.
As for cybercore scouting, you may be able to chrono boost your stalker and msc reactively, but only if you always bank your 4th chrono boost preemptively until you rule out the build. By the time you're done scouting the outskirts of your natural, it's probably too late to chrono boost your probes a 4th time. That puts you 2 probes behind - your scouting probe will most likely not make it back to your base, and you won't be able to chrono probes a 4th time until your msc comes out and your third pylon finishes. That being said, cybercore scouting gives you more mid game specific information if the terran's ramp isn't walled, so that's something to consider if you're doing a blink build and intend to skip detection.
Consider that a gateway scout reaches your opponent's base more or less by the time you start your cybernetics core. So, it's only like 20 seconds of advantage, compared to a cyber core scout in the most obvious proxy barracks spots. That doesn't give you any advantage: you'll still have 3 chronoboosts used on probes, you'll still let the zealot finish and start stalker/mothership core. It's definitely more optimal to scout the proxy where it's placed, because it's closer to your base and it makes you lose less mining time. Naturally, you can't be 100 % sure to find them. But finding them most of the times is enough. You don't need a ton of stalkers immediately against gas first. Dealing with the first 2 hellions runby can be done with 1 stalker and 1 mothership core. After that, it's all a matter of pulling probes properly against widow mines, and microing your stalkers. I wouldn't say that knowing it's coming at 3:00 instead of 4:15 when it hits at 6:15 (?) is a big deal. Of course you shouldn't spend your 4th chrono boost on probes if you scout a proxy 2 rax. My point is that you don't have to save that chrono boost if you gateway scout and see the terran is playing standard, whereas you have to save it blindly if you cybercore scout. The thing about scouting gas first openers when you open stalker sentry is that you won't commit to a sentry blindly. If you're going msc expand with a robo and 3 stalker, you can definitely deal with gas first without scouting. Dealing with 2 hellions when you have 1-2 stalkers and a msc is one thing, but having 1 stalker and 1 sentry when a marine widow drop hits with hellions lurking outside your natural is very different. Knowing it's coming at 4:15 is perfectly fine since you won't have commited to making a sentry yet. But as far as I know, you can't rely on this delayed probe scout against non-reaper openers, since there will be marines out to greet your probe. If you gateway scout and see the barracks finished at 3:00, you know for a fact that it's a gas first opener. Of course, cybercore scouting has its pros, but we've already talked about them. If you think the pros of cybercore scouting outweigh those of gateway scouting for the build you're doing or your style in general, that's fine. One of the pros of gateway scouting is reliability, which is something to take into account. Also, I don't think scouting whether the terran went for a factory or 2-3 rax after the initial reaper is particularly important at all. Whenever I scout for proxies in PvT after my cyberccore, I always send my probe back to build my nexus and get 3 stalkers anyway.
Delaying a chronoboost is not nearly as bad as scouting 1 minute earlier. It's something like 10 minerals lost.
You can still gather enough information even if there are marines. If he stays behind the wall in his main, for example, it's most likely gas first. A common gas first variation even gets the reactor straightaway, skipping any marine. Otherwise, you should be able to see the timing of the command center in the natural. With good reaction, you won't lose a probe to marines anyway, so you can always come back again.
How is scouting if he goes for factory or not after the first rax is not important? You need to be prepared against a 1-1-1, especially if you're playing blink or stargate.
Building 3 stalkers, seems overly safe to me. I generally go with 1 stalker 1 sentry against standard openings.
|
|
|
It's probably because I play terran, but I find this thread extremely obnoxious and borderline offensive.
|
On January 20 2015 19:52 KingAlphard wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2015 02:55 vhapter wrote:On January 20 2015 01:13 KingAlphard wrote:On January 20 2015 00:45 vhapter wrote:
@KingAlphard
Most of the times I've seen Zest gateway scout, he went 1 stalker 1 sentry and 2 gates instead of 3 stalkers on 1 gate. By doing that, you can rule out gas first builds - which are easier to deal with if you do a 3 stalker opening - and any other funky build that could be tricky to handle without stalkers 2 and 3 very early. Needless to say, this also rules out proxy 2 raxes. And if the terran doesn't try to trap your probe by getting a second supply depot earlier than usual, you can send it back.
As for cybercore scouting, you may be able to chrono boost your stalker and msc reactively, but only if you always bank your 4th chrono boost preemptively until you rule out the build. By the time you're done scouting the outskirts of your natural, it's probably too late to chrono boost your probes a 4th time. That puts you 2 probes behind - your scouting probe will most likely not make it back to your base, and you won't be able to chrono probes a 4th time until your msc comes out and your third pylon finishes. That being said, cybercore scouting gives you more mid game specific information if the terran's ramp isn't walled, so that's something to consider if you're doing a blink build and intend to skip detection.
Consider that a gateway scout reaches your opponent's base more or less by the time you start your cybernetics core. So, it's only like 20 seconds of advantage, compared to a cyber core scout in the most obvious proxy barracks spots. That doesn't give you any advantage: you'll still have 3 chronoboosts used on probes, you'll still let the zealot finish and start stalker/mothership core. It's definitely more optimal to scout the proxy where it's placed, because it's closer to your base and it makes you lose less mining time. Naturally, you can't be 100 % sure to find them. But finding them most of the times is enough. You don't need a ton of stalkers immediately against gas first. Dealing with the first 2 hellions runby can be done with 1 stalker and 1 mothership core. After that, it's all a matter of pulling probes properly against widow mines, and microing your stalkers. I wouldn't say that knowing it's coming at 3:00 instead of 4:15 when it hits at 6:15 (?) is a big deal. Of course you shouldn't spend your 4th chrono boost on probes if you scout a proxy 2 rax. My point is that you don't have to save that chrono boost if you gateway scout and see the terran is playing standard, whereas you have to save it blindly if you cybercore scout. The thing about scouting gas first openers when you open stalker sentry is that you won't commit to a sentry blindly. If you're going msc expand with a robo and 3 stalker, you can definitely deal with gas first without scouting. Dealing with 2 hellions when you have 1-2 stalkers and a msc is one thing, but having 1 stalker and 1 sentry when a marine widow drop hits with hellions lurking outside your natural is very different. Knowing it's coming at 4:15 is perfectly fine since you won't have commited to making a sentry yet. But as far as I know, you can't rely on this delayed probe scout against non-reaper openers, since there will be marines out to greet your probe. If you gateway scout and see the barracks finished at 3:00, you know for a fact that it's a gas first opener. Of course, cybercore scouting has its pros, but we've already talked about them. If you think the pros of cybercore scouting outweigh those of gateway scouting for the build you're doing or your style in general, that's fine. One of the pros of gateway scouting is reliability, which is something to take into account. Also, I don't think scouting whether the terran went for a factory or 2-3 rax after the initial reaper is particularly important at all. Whenever I scout for proxies in PvT after my cyberccore, I always send my probe back to build my nexus and get 3 stalkers anyway. Delaying a chronoboost is not nearly as bad as scouting 1 minute earlier. It's something like 10 minerals lost. You can still gather enough information even if there are marines. If he stays behind the wall in his main, for example, it's most likely gas first. A common gas first variation even gets the reactor straightaway, skipping any marine. Otherwise, you should be able to see the timing of the command center in the natural. With good reaction, you won't lose a probe to marines anyway, so you can always come back again. How is scouting if he goes for factory or not after the first rax is not important? You need to be prepared against a 1-1-1, especially if you're playing blink or stargate. Building 3 stalkers, seems overly safe to me. I generally go with 1 stalker 1 sentry against standard openings.
Most pros don't really scout the rax factory transition when going blink or stargate (well, if they go stargate, then the oracle scouts it), but pros go into 2-3 rax much more often. Like I said though, I think it's valuable to know whether you're up against a factory opener if you're going blink, but completely irrelevant if you're going robo. My response against 1-1-1s doesn't really change - I always rally my second and third observers to my mineral line until I scout the terran's main and leave my msc between my 2 bases.
Building 3 stalkers is the most standard opener that every pro did last year much more often than anything else. It's enough to kite marines if there's a marauderless poke. 3 stalkers costs as much as 1 stalker, 1 sentry, and an extra gate. Unless you skip the extra gate an play greedy as hell, I don't see how these builds are much different. A 3-stalker opener allows you to kite marines all day (since you can 2-shot them) whereas going 1 stalker and 1 sentry doesn't. You'd have to warp in 2 extra stalkers for that, which disrupts your build more than skipping the gateway (the extra gateway does have its pros though). But on the other hand, your early sentry will have more energy in the mid game and can be helpful against marauder pokes, which makes it much riskier to kite bio. The extra sentry energy doesn't matter much for most players though.
|
On January 21 2015 00:28 LoneYoShi wrote:
It's probably because I play terran, but I find this thread extremely obnoxious and borderline offensive.
Then someone should let you know that there are multiple terran players in EU GM doing only proxy rax or 1 base 5 rax all ins over and over again.
|
On January 21 2015 00:28 LoneYoShi wrote:
It's probably because I play terran, but I find this thread extremely obnoxious and borderline offensive.
What about it is obnoxious/ borderline offensive? Its just a simple question on whether something can be done blindly or not.
|
On January 21 2015 06:13 AkashSky wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2015 00:28 LoneYoShi wrote:
It's probably because I play terran, but I find this thread extremely obnoxious and borderline offensive. What about it is obnoxious/ borderline offensive? Its just a simple question on whether something can be done blindly or not.
Re-reading the OP, I seem to have misinterpreted it. You're right, my apologies !
Edit: to clarify, I thought that you were complaining that you couldn't hold marine rushes while going with the greediest build and with no scout. But after going through the thread again, I see this is not your intent and that I misunderstood the discussion. Hence, my apologies ! :-)
|
On January 21 2015 16:42 LoneYoShi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2015 06:13 AkashSky wrote:On January 21 2015 00:28 LoneYoShi wrote:
It's probably because I play terran, but I find this thread extremely obnoxious and borderline offensive. What about it is obnoxious/ borderline offensive? Its just a simple question on whether something can be done blindly or not. Re-reading the OP, I seem to have misinterpreted it. You're right, my apologies ! Edit: to clarify, I thought that you were complaining that you couldn't hold marine rushes while going with the greediest build and with no scout. But after going through the thread again, I see this is not your intent and that I misunderstood the discussion. Hence, my apologies ! :-)
The greediest build protoss can do is nexus first, not msc expand. But it's none of your concern which build he's talking about though. We've even seen players like Jaedong hold off a proxy 2 gate while going hatch first once and that's a fucking feat of skill, not borderline offensive or obnoxious.
It's a great thing players attempt to win games like that, even against the odds. Much better than an Idra instant ragequit, even though it's not as funny. If you're offended by someone attempting to pull off something difficult like that - which takes so much more skill than a regular hold -, that's something you should keep to yourself. I don't know why the hell the mods haven't warned you yet, but you broke 2 rules in a single post - you were not respectful and refused to watch the replay before posting.
|
Just thought I'd bump this topic and let the OP know herO's just held another proxy 2 rax, this time in IEM Taipei. herO vs Maru, G1.
|
For those saying 3rax is not a thing theres an EU player that levels accounts to gm with just 3 rax alone in all 3 matchups. He Streams and Ive seen him beat incredibnly high level players like MouzHope on EU dispite not being nowhere near that level without his 3 raxes. Its extremely hard to stop and even harder than 2 rax because hes more all in with the 3rd rax rather than orbital command. Kinda made me wonder why npbpdy did that before simce if you orbital you float minerals if you 2 rax. , Im high master protoss and Ive become a victin of his WHILE SCOUTING. To defend 3 rax there is literraly no room for error, You have to 2 gate chrono stalkers to be safe vs it but the 1 gate that everyone tries to defend it with is very very hard.
|
I don't know if that's the same guy but last week I lost 3 times against a Terran barcode that did proxy 3 rax scvs all-in. It hits before the MScore has enough energy, and despite scouting it early with my probe, dropping a second gate and chronoing stalkers, I didn't hold ( though I must say I'm back from a long absence so I didn't have too good micro ).
Even theorycrafting I must say I can't remember what's the theory on holding that once it's scouted early. Should I drop a third gate ? Skip the MScore ( deadweight ) ? Since he brings all his scvs, when I pull out my probes, the 5-6 marines are safe ( with another 6 marines coming in a minute later, due to momentum of econmy ) behind and I barely have 2 stalkers at that time.. I dunno, maybe it's just all micro, which I currently lack..
|
On February 02 2015 06:04 Nyast wrote:
I don't know if that's the same guy but last week I lost 3 times against a Terran barcode that did proxy 3 rax scvs all-in. It hits before the MScore has enough energy, and despite scouting it early with my probe, dropping a second gate and chronoing stalkers, I didn't hold ( though I must say I'm back from a long absence so I didn't have too good micro ).
Even theorycrafting I must say I can't remember what's the theory on holding that once it's scouted early. Should I drop a third gate ? Skip the MScore ( deadweight ) ? Since he brings all his scvs, when I pull out my probes, the 5-6 marines are safe ( with another 6 marines coming in a minute later, due to momentum of econmy ) behind and I barely have 2 stalkers at that time.. I dunno, maybe it's just all micro, which I currently lack..
If its a proxy 3 rax with perfect micro from your opponent, and you go a nexus without starting any units first, I think you are 100% dead. There simply isn't anything you can do because you won't get a probe surround against perfect micro.
I think you can defend this if you go for a MSC stalker before expand. Essentially what you need to do is get a second pylon to power your gateway ASAP. This is because that pylon is a vulnerable target and if you lose your stalker production you lose the game. You need stalkers and probe pulls to buy time for photon overcharge. When you engage with probes and stalkers, you are just trying to delay his push for even a small second. Try to take minimal losses, although losing 5 probes to delay should put you in an evenish spot (and is perfectly fine). Although you don't have photon overcharge when this hits, it isn't actually that far away from being able to cast.
After photon overcharge activates, you should be able to push the bunkers back. Focus fire repairing scvs and attack with stalkers by trading their shields for extra damage.
If you expand first vs this I don't think there is a way to hold, the natural nexus will die before you can photon overcharge.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
