[D] 2015 Season 1 Zerg Map Veto Thread

Zero.Tha.Hero

Canada155 Posts

January 16 2015 00:19 GMT

With the death of the short lived #dreampool, brief return of modern maps, and the introduction of a handful of new maps for the season, I'm starting up a new seasonal thread for this discussion. Current map pool (new maps italicized):

Expedition Lost (2)
Overgrowth LE (2)
Secret Spring (2)
Vaani Research Station (2)
Catallena LE (3)
Deadwing LE (4)
Inferno Pools (4)

Right now, I've got Catallena, Deadwing, and Inferno Pools (islands! argh!) vetoed, but I'd like to hear what other (undoubtedly, better,) Z's think of the pool, and what influences people to veto the specific maps that they've chosen.

Big J

Austria16289 Posts

January 16 2015 02:02 GMT

OK, let's get through the maps in the order you posted:

Expedition Lost is a map well done, at least for the zerg matchups. The natural can be walled for ZvZ, the backdoor isn't much of a problem for any of the matchups for the zerg player but can be used for roach attacks against Terran. The third is a little further away than one would feel comfortable with, but it's actually not really further than say the third on Overgrowth.
The map is obviously far from figured out, but I think that the distance to the third is harder for Protoss vs Zerg, than for Zerg vs Protoss and I think Terrans should take the base on the bottom of the backdoor as their third against Zerg and then rally forward with bio, which let's you counterattack towards the natural and also makes 4th bases hard for the Terran to secure eventually. Not sure about Mech on that map, I'd say the map is good for swarmhosts and hard for Terran 4ths, so it should be dealable.
Also reaper openings are bad because they can only come from the frontal ramp which is a nice little goodie for us zergies.
That map gets a pass from me.

Overgrowth, not much left to say about that map. Produces good games in all Zerg matchups, is quite balanced and allows for those weird gold base rushes vs Protoss.
The only reason why a zerg would veto it is because he doesn't want to play it anymore in my opinion, which might be a good reason but from a gameplay perspective the map should pass.

Secret Spring is just a weird map. The natural is very easy, the main very abuseable and the map can be walled off with a single 3x3 building early or breaking down the rocks, so there shouldn't be a single viable aggressive build for zerg before around 10mins.
The third is very open and quite far from the first two bases which makes it really awkward to take early against air aggression, since queens take so long to walk over. But of course, it makes either of the possible third bases incredibly hard for a Protoss or Terran to hold, for as long as Zerg can secure one path through the map (either the middle is still open, or one of the side-rocks has been cleaned).
All in all, I don't think there can be much of a standard metagame here so everything is left to guessing. I could see Zerg being favored against an opponent that just tries to play normal, however, I don't think anyone should play normal here and then it can be a very hard map.
In PvZ a Protoss can warp down from his sides' gold base with a pylon that can't be contested, which makes rushing very strong.
Definitely one of my vetoes as zerg, since I just hate setting up timing attacks to kill rocks, lol.

Vaani Research Station looks and feels like an even more turtly version of Newkirk, which means it is a bit of a stale and probably slightly Terran favored map. And there is going to be a lot of Mech and Protoss Air Turtle on it and you are more often than not required to go Swarm Hosts in macro games. Meanwhile it is a two player map (strong proxy possibilities for T and some extend P), with a free natural at the back and a too long overlord scouting distance. This means that you can easily be caught with a slight disadvantage, if you open defensive (e.g 10scout, pool first) against a Nexus/CC/hatch first, or too greedy (e.g. 3hatch before pool, hatch first vs Protoss, hatch/gas/pool vs Terran) vs a proxy. Meanwhile the Zerg early options are worse because of the 1wide ramp to the main/natural, which grants more safety than the usual 2-3wide open ramps to natural bases.
That being said, I think the map is quite easy to play on and a good choice if you are struggling with defending 2-3base timing attacks, because of the easy 3 base setup, though drops can be quite strong here. And of course, if you just like very long drawn out games it may just be for you.
Currently, I will let it pass because it doesn't feel really bad, but I'm also not excited to play on it.

Catallena has been a veto last season, and will be one this season. The map is just very strong for Protoss and Terran vs Zerg due to how its choke points work out and how the 3p setup makes any 4th base awkward, if not even a 3rd base hard to hold.
Veto, still not gonna play it.

Deadwing, one of the more boring maps around and not really a strong zerg map. I guess it works well (especially in cross positions) against bio-fetishists, but good Terran players should just play turtlemech there and then it gets at least superboring, if not even superhard.
Same goes for Protoss. 4easy bases for Protoss is just nothing I'm looking forward to. But it's absolutely winable. If you have nothing better to veto, veto it, yet for me it is a pass right now, since I will veto...

...Inferno Pools instead. The reasons being that the map is annoying in close positions, because the rush distance is very small and makes anything Protoss and hellbat pushes and paradepushing all very strong.
The third bases are very hard here, which feels like more of a problem for the other races and in cross or vertical positions a macro game should favor zerg (if not greatly favor zerg), which will probably lead to lots of vetos from T/P here.
Hence, you are bound to play a lot of ZvZ on this map - and the map is just garbage for ZvZ. The natural ramp is far away and quite wide, so early rushing is even stronger than usually. The third is far away, so mutalisks are incredibly strong if not just straight up superior to standard roach-based play, especially in the superlong crosspositions.
So my line of thinking here is that I have a 1 in 3 chance to get positions that lend towards getting rushed and the map will be heavily vetoed by Protoss and Terran so I'm going to play a lot of ZvZ here (which I don't like) and that ZvZ metagame will be even more annoying than the usual ZvZ metagame. Hence, this is my third veto.

GGuMake

United States74 Posts

January 16 2015 03:31 GMT

Map #1:

Poll: 2015 Season 1 Zerg Map Veto

(Vote): Expedition Lost
(Vote): Overgrowth LE
(Vote): Secret Spring
(Vote): Vaani Research Station
(Vote): Catallena LE
(Vote): Deadwing LE
(Vote): Inferno Pools

Map #2

Poll: Map #2

(Vote): Inferno Pools
(Vote): Deadwing LE
(Vote): Catallena LE
(Vote): Vaani Research Station
(Vote): Overgrowth LE
(Vote): Secret Spring
(Vote): Expedition Lost

Map #3

Poll: Map #3

Inferno Pools (13)

35%

Catallena LE (8)

22%

Vaani Research Station (4)

11%

Expedition Lost (4)

11%

Deadwing LE (3)

8%

Secret Spring (3)

8%

Overgrowth LE (2)

5%

37 total votes

Your vote: Map #3

(Vote): Inferno Pools
(Vote): Deadwing LE
(Vote): Catallena LE
(Vote): Vaani Research Station
(Vote): Overgrowth LE
(Vote): Secret Spring
(Vote): Expedition Lost

For more insight, and why you picked whatever you did, try to write an explanation as to why you feel these maps are the ones that should be vetoed.

Ej_

47656 Posts

January 18 2015 15:19 GMT

I haven't played much at all this season (6 games I think? I won 2 lol), but my vetoes were:
Deadwing:
it's still that super boring campy map that I never even bothered to not veto, I like staying on the aggressive and that's kind of lol on Deadwing.

Secret Spring:
in-base natural for free nexus/CC and far away 3rd. Also mech gets 3 paths through the entire map, 1 of which can be walled off. In general this map is just awful example of Blizzard's map-making

Inferno Pools:
Blizzard strikes again with Alterzim's ugly cousin that doesn't even have reliable expansion set-up in a meta where every 2 out of 3 Terrans try to kill me with hellbats.

WGT-Baal

France3577 Posts

January 18 2015 18:31 GMT

For me:

Secret Spring: horrible map, tried to play on it vs P, he FFed and I couldnt do anything about it...Not very good against T either. It s very hard to hold onto a 3rd base and the hellbat/MM push is super hard to stop.

Catallena: the chokes... but at this point I m hesitating

Deadwing: too big, horrible against mech.

Inferno pools: no more veto sadly, I hate this map in ZvZ! Played a ZvT on it and it was ok but still...so many ZvZ!

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[D] 2015 Season 1 Zerg Map Veto Thread

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