EPTTvP is my worst matchup by far and every single time I lose is because the protoss did some sort of blink all in.
Thanks
[H] TvP 4gate+blink
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SAlechko
Israel15 Posts
TvP is my worst matchup by far and every single time I lose is because the protoss did some sort of blink all in. Thanks | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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SAlechko
Israel15 Posts
You say that I need to retreat my natural, and also that I don't need to realize it's a 4 gate blink, does that mean that against pretty my every all in I should stay on one base? Can't you hold off most of them with two bases? Thanks. | ||
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FreeZEternal
Korea (South)3396 Posts
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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SAlechko
Israel15 Posts
On May 15 2014 01:09 SatedSC2 wrote: You can hold a lot of the frontal all-ins (Immortals, Void Rays, 4/5Gates etc.) on two-bases, but it's harder to do so and it isn't necessary in order to win. If a Protoss tries to transition out of a failed one-base all-in by expanding then they will need to tech up in some way (usually by moving towards either Templar or Colossi for AoE damage) whilst also building Probes, which means that they will have to cut units. They will not have enough units to defend multi-pronged drop harassment whilst both teching up and securing a two-base economy, and that's how you win the game. EDIT: I mean, if you identify that they're doing a frontal all-in and feel comfortable defending those all-ins on two-bases then go ahead and do that. The problem is identifying the exact all-in that a Protoss is doing, so if you can't identify the exact all-in (but you do know that they're all-inning) then it is better to retreat your natural just so that Blink doesn't catch you off-guard. This is immensely helpful, thanks a lot | ||
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vhapter
Brazil677 Posts
On May 15 2014 01:01 SAlechko wrote: Should have probably mentioned that I did recognize the build (which is why I put down 4 bunkers). You say that I need to retreat my natural, and also that I don't need to realize it's a 4 gate blink, does that mean that against pretty my every all in I should stay on one base? Can't you hold off most of them with two bases? Thanks. 1-base blink doesn't give you as much time to prepare. The common response to blink all-ins at the end wol was to fly your natural back to your main and build bunkers - and then "defense" it . Because it's a 1-base strategy, you don't have to worry about anything other than holding off the push to be honest. 2-base blink allows for much smoother transitions, but 1-base blink doesn't provide you with enough economy to catch up - you HAVE to kill the terran. There's no way around it. | ||
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Ctone23
United States1839 Posts
On May 15 2014 00:53 SatedSC2 wrote: First, you need to know that the Protoss is doing a one-base all-in. You can confirm this by constantly checking their natural expansion. If they don't have a natural expansion by ~6:00 then they're most likely doing a one base all-in. You should then Scan their main base to see how many Gateways they have and to see if they have any tech structures there; your Reaper or scouting SCV should have seen where their initial Pylons were placed so use that to decide where exactly you need to Scan. Once you've confirmed a one-base all-in, you should retreat your natural into your main base and build two Bunkers at your main ramp. You should also try to build Bunkers near any Blink-accessible cliffs, which should be pretty easy to do with another one or two Bunkers since most current ladder maps don't have wide-open cliffs. This is a lot of investment, but it makes your units much more powerful than they would be without them. Try to have your army situated between the two sets of Bunkers so you can quickly move them to where they are needed, You should try to build your buildings so that your units can easily move between the two sets of Bunkers, but this can be difficult on some maps. Also remember to have some SCVs pre-pulled with your army so that they can quickly repair the Bunkers when the Protoss attacks. You have two Orbital Commands so you don't need to worry about keeping every single SCV on your mineral line. You don't actually need to know that it is a Blink all-in, just that it is an all-in. If they attack your front with Void Rays or Immortals from a proxy then you can salvage the Bunkers you don't need and focus on getting more Bunkers at your front. Don't forget to continue teching towards Medivacs. Once Medivacs and Stim are finished it is pretty much impossible for a one-base Protoss to break you with Blink Stalkers. Finally, keep an eye on their natural if possible. If the Protoss takes their natural then they're not going to make any more offensive units and are going to try and contain you. You should be able to re-take your natural at this point, especially if you already have Medivacs. Yea what he says ^ Try not to get too greedy, say if you push back the initial attack. A lot times a protoss will just turtle outside your base and mass up units, which can cost you if you think you're safe and try to re take the natural. Once you have medivacs, assuming constant unit/depot production(people don't comment enough how important depots are) then you should have more than adequate firepower to move out. | ||
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JonIrenicus
Italy602 Posts
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vhapter
Brazil677 Posts
On May 15 2014 07:28 JonIrenicus wrote: Know that not everything sated has said is gold. The protoss could just fake the pressure, and expand and you'll get fucked unless you have scv scouting. So basically, get one scv out in the map and scout a bit later to see if he is expanidng. How can you "get fucked" if you scout 1-base blink? Even if you're overly defensive, there's no way for the protoss to make a decent amount of stalkers early, get blink fast, AND have a good economy. Getting blink/gates early on (1 base) means you can't make enough stalkers and expand at the same time. Getting blink, and then a nexus, but not making stalkers only puts you far behind - you slow down your economy and miss the window of time you have to do damage. Since the protoss is already behind no matter what he does, there's no way the terran will "get fucked". | ||
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hellokitty[hk]
United States1309 Posts
It's not always straight up loosing too, sometimes the protosses transition out and Supernova gets out macroed. | ||
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vhapter
Brazil677 Posts
On May 15 2014 09:23 hellokitty[hk] wrote: Supernova looses to scouted 1 base blink all in all the time on ladder and he's pretty good. It's not always straight up loosing too, sometimes the protosses transition out and Supernova gets out macroed. Scouting 1-base blink doesn't translate into an auto win. If a terran loses to 1-base blink followed by a macro transition, that most likely means he either took way too much damage or blew it. And I haven't watched Supernova in a while, but the fact that his current TvP win rate is lower than 50% should also be taken into account. I recall MC beating a top tier terran (Polt? not really sure) with a 1-base all in that went on for more than 10 minutes. Does that make it good? Hell no. (Just for the record, I'm not saying further scouting is a bad thing.) | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
You need to either scout them with an early SCV, saving it just before the stalker comes out or mothership core, then returning to confirm the protoss expansion. or Reaper or both Not to say that it's easy holding off the blink allin... That shit is still hard to hold. And yeah, pros lose to it all the time. Often its because they expected oracle or the other way around... | ||
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EngrishTeacher
Canada1109 Posts
By the time medievacs come out, I don't even feel ahead economically by very much, and to make matters worse my main has been grossly over-mined while the protoss has photon overcharge ready for a drop in the main anyway. | ||
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JonIrenicus
Italy602 Posts
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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