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[D] SC2 Notes: Playing To Win vs. Playing To Improve - Pag…

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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BuddhaMonk
Profile Joined August 2010
781 Posts
November 20 2013 22:27 GMT
#41
On November 20 2013 10:25 SC2John wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 08:33 BuddhaMonk wrote:
I think people should play however they want to. So long as it's within the rules of the game, what's the problem?

But I disagree with the statement that "It's quite clear that Jaedong is a superior player mechanically and perhaps even strategically". No doubt they're on a similar level, but it's not at all clear that Jeadong is superior, in fact I would argue s0s is superior in both respects. Just because a player uses a "cheesy" build successfully, doesn't mean he has bad mechanics.


I apologize, this thread is not coming through the way I intended it to. This was merely an exposition of the difference between "playing to win" and "playing to improve" and has nothing to do with how people should play the game. Play for whatever reason you want, I don't care how anyone plays. When someone asks me "I don't know how to improve, what should I do?", I can specifically state "playing to improve" means this kind of mindset and you should do these things to improve your play. If you just want to play for fun and mass hellions for shits and giggles, DO IT! I don't care, I don't even think it's not a learning experience. But when someone asks for help in the forums on how to improve, I'm not going to say "macro better" or "just play a bunch of ladder games and you'll get better" because those results are going to take a long time to come to fruition. Most people would prefer to hear some solid advice on how to improve their gameplay IMMEDIATELY, which is where methodology comes in. Following specific methods and general practice habits will lead to rapid improvement, which is GREAT for those interested in it. Again, if you're not interested in rapid improvement, do whatever the hell you want! It's a game!

As far as Jaedong being mechanically superior:

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Jaedong
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/SHy

Jaedong is by far mechanically superior to sOs. I'm not arguing that sOs has bad mechanics (as a kespa player, he has way stronger mechanics than a lot of SC2 heroes like PartinG, Naniwa, or Creator), just that Jaedong is definitely better. And in no way at all is this linked to his "cheese-esque sOs style". sOs won that series using brilliant strategies and mind games to throw Jaedong off; it also happened that he played quite well that day as well.


Fair enough! Nice reply, and yes.. I was going off on a tangent, that was not the point of your post.
Olenji
Profile Joined November 2013
United States7 Posts
November 21 2013 06:20 GMT
#42
I look at myself about half a year ago. I had just switched over from SC:BW and my play was horrible. It was borderline bad. I watched many games but I just didn't really understand a lot of it. So I practiced with my friend, a gold-leaguer. I went on a 10-loss streak just to learn how to fend off rushes and do proper wall ins. I then went on a 20-loss streak just to learn how to be aggressive. Then I went on a 50-loss streak just to learn how to get into the mid game. Now I'm currently at a 10-20-loss streak just learning how to close a game. Considering I've probably only won 3 games out of all these losses. I'm still proud that I managed to get somewhere. I'm currently in my sophomore year of high school and I'm currently trying to get good enough that I can join a college team once I'm in college.

I think the most important part of my practice is taking it in steps accepting my losses. I'm currently also working on trying to fend off cannon rushes. How fun.
Does this face look like it cares?
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
November 21 2013 07:16 GMT
#43
On November 21 2013 15:20 Anonimoose wrote:
I look at myself about half a year ago. I had just switched over from SC:BW and my play was horrible. It was borderline bad. I watched many games but I just didn't really understand a lot of it. So I practiced with my friend, a gold-leaguer. I went on a 10-loss streak just to learn how to fend off rushes and do proper wall ins. I then went on a 20-loss streak just to learn how to be aggressive. Then I went on a 50-loss streak just to learn how to get into the mid game. Now I'm currently at a 10-20-loss streak just learning how to close a game. Considering I've probably only won 3 games out of all these losses. I'm still proud that I managed to get somewhere. I'm currently in my sophomore year of high school and I'm currently trying to get good enough that I can join a college team once I'm in college.

I think the most important part of my practice is taking it in steps accepting my losses. I'm currently also working on trying to fend off cannon rushes. How fun.


Exactly. When you're trying to improve, the most important thing is to not take losses seriously but rather say things like "I felt like there was no way I could attack him at any point in the game, he seemed to defend everything" and then look at the replay and realize there were plenty of opportunities that were just missed. You want to focus on creating a game plan and sticking to one thing until you know it perfectly.

Of course, it's nice to win every once and a while too . If you ever get to a point where you're not enjoying playing, I always suggest playing team games, customs, and offracing for fun until you feel confident enough to go back to practicing.
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
Hushfield
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Belgium80 Posts
November 21 2013 09:20 GMT
#44
This is a great read! The reason why I absolutely love the SC2 community is that I think we have a relatively large percentage of people that play to improve, as opposed to playing to win. Where else do you find a forum filled with people that enjoy doing the maths behind a game, posting graphs, charts and psychological analyses? I don't think [insert random game] does that nearly as well as TL and SC2. Threads like this, day9 dailies, the excellent strategy writeups by the TL staff make a lot of us that are interested in improvement coming back to this game in particular. As tastosis would say: it is the manliest esport out there.
SoulSC2
Profile Joined March 2013
New Zealand12 Posts
November 29 2013 03:22 GMT
#45
This is an amazing contribution that anybody serious about improving should read.
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