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hearters
Singapore224 Posts
I think it sounds like a good idea to hotkey all your drones to one hotkey. It would save clicks and cameras when building spines, spores, expansions and other buildings. However, I've never seen this done in any streams, or even mentioned in any hotkey systems. What do you all think? | ||
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atuor
United States82 Posts
Also, continually adding each created drone to the hotkey would but even more time consuming. | ||
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InfCereal
Canada1759 Posts
I disagree with hotkeying all your drones, however if you're at 2 base saturation, and you're droning in preparation for a third, hotkey the excess drones as you make them. Then just hit the hotkey and transfer. | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On August 17 2013 23:05 hearters wrote: Hi Zergies, I think it sounds like a good idea to hotkey all your drones to one hotkey. It would save clicks and cameras when building spines, spores, expansions and other buildings. However, I've never seen this done in any streams, or even mentioned in any hotkey systems. If you need a drone to morph a new structure, you want to make sure that you pull one from the minerals, not from vespene. | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
Yeah.... you don't wanna mess with your gas, hotkeying all drones except for gas drones gets really stupid if a gas drone gets killed and you have to replace it. Plus if you make a mistake you immediately lose. Hotkeying all overlords however, now that's the shit. Phoenix/viking is about to come out? Just press your overlord hotkey and move em to your main. Your lair just finished? Press your overlord hotkey and drop creep. | ||
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Marcinko
South Africa1014 Posts
Hotkeying all your drones have clear disadvantages as mentioned above. But..... (Always a but) Hotkeying your drones mining minerals per hatchery can help a bit I found, example when you need to get your drones away from the mineral line due to harass and your busy elsewhere. Hotkey + move on minimap for quick response time, then go to your hatchery and sort that shit out. | ||
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hearters
Singapore224 Posts
So I think we can say in summary, it's a bad idea because: 1) One wrong hotkey and move command and GG. 2) Gas drones should not be touched. 3) Hotkeying only mineral drones can still screw up since you sometimes need to replace gas drones with mineral drones. | ||
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Chrono000
Korea (South)358 Posts
The issue i see most is learning to hot key all your drones and to use the hotkey in the first place. if u can nail this habit it would be good. | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
On August 18 2013 00:58 Chrono000 wrote: why not use zero eight or nine as the hot key that way it stays out of the way but easy to remember? The issue i see most is learning to hot key all your drones and to use the hotkey in the first place. if u can nail this habit it would be good. Except... it wouldn't. Because of reasons. See above. | ||
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Zheryn
Sweden3653 Posts
On August 17 2013 23:05 hearters wrote: Hi Zergies, I think it sounds like a good idea to hotkey all your drones to one hotkey. It would save clicks and cameras when building spines, spores, expansions and other buildings. However, I've never seen this done in any streams, or even mentioned in any hotkey systems. What do you all think? Could someone explain to me why having all your drones hotkey'd saves any time when building stuff? | ||
KadaverBB
Germany25657 Posts
EDIT: Leaving this open though because the discussion seems ok  | ||
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Whatson
United States5356 Posts
On August 18 2013 01:19 Zheryn wrote: Could someone explain to me why having all your drones hotkey'd saves any time when building stuff? Say I wanted to build a 2 evo wall at my natural, but I'm currently scouting around with lings. Normally, you would screen hotkey back to one of your bases, select a drone, then click on the minimap back to your natural then build. Theoretically, with a hotkey method you would keep your screen at your natural, hit your hotkey for all drones, then build. Basically it saves the time it takes to move your screen back and forth and selecting drones. | ||
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Salomonster
Sweden67 Posts
On August 18 2013 01:42 Whatson wrote: Say I wanted to build a 2 evo wall at my natural, but I'm currently scouting around with lings. Normally, you would screen hotkey back to one of your bases, select a drone, then click on the minimap back to your natural then build. Theoretically, with a hotkey method you would keep your screen at your natural, hit your hotkey for all drones, then build. Basically it saves the time it takes to move your screen back and forth and selecting drones. 1. If I have a base at my natural with enough creep to cover my ramp I 99 out of 100 times have atleast 2 drones at my natural. 2. if you use camera locations you probably have a location at your natural 2 pretty much neglecting any time to move your screen between bases. hitting the mainbase key, boxing 2 drones and hit the natural key should be pretty damn fast. I'm not trying to sound like a dick or anything, just dont think this is a reason to hotkey drones. | ||
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Whatson
United States5356 Posts
On August 18 2013 03:04 Salomonster wrote: 1. If I have a base at my natural with enough creep to cover my ramp I 99 out of 100 times have atleast 2 drones at my natural. 2. if you use camera locations you probably have a location at your natural 2 pretty much neglecting any time to move your screen between bases. hitting the mainbase key, boxing 2 drones and hit the natural key should be pretty damn fast. I'm not trying to sound like a dick or anything, just dont think this is a reason to hotkey drones. Oh I know hotkeying drones isn't good and all the reasons why, i'm just pointing out why it's theoretically useful Note how I said "theoretically" in both posts | ||
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Salomonster
Sweden67 Posts
On August 18 2013 05:04 Whatson wrote: Oh I know hotkeying drones isn't good and all the reasons why, i'm just pointing out why it's theoretically useful Note how I said "theoretically" in both posts Note taken =) | ||
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crbox
Canada1180 Posts
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On August 18 2013 00:26 Clarity_nl wrote: Wow both the key points have already been nailed. Yeah.... you don't wanna mess with your gas, hotkeying all drones except for gas drones gets really stupid if a gas drone gets killed and you have to replace it. Plus if you make a mistake you immediately lose. Hotkeying all overlords however, now that's the shit. Phoenix/viking is about to come out? Just press your overlord hotkey and move em to your main. Your lair just finished? Press your overlord hotkey and drop creep. I did not think of this. I will start doing this in ZvZ, at least for the ovies on the map. Currently I just quickly scroll to all of them... coudl save time! | ||
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KingofGods
Canada1218 Posts
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Whatson
United States5356 Posts
On August 18 2013 11:09 KingofGods wrote: Who has hotkeys to spare to do something like hotkey workers? lol. Uh I really hope this is sarcasm or some other sense of humor | ||
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KingofGods
Canada1218 Posts
2 - drops early, main army later 3 - ghosts, tanks, secondary army 4 - production 5 - ccs 6 - later drops, ovie clearing viking, scouting reaper if it still lives 7 - engy bay, armory, ghost academy 8,9,0 - keys too far away to reach comfortably without totally messing up my hand positioning which screws everything up. If I could reach 8,9, and 0 properly you can believe there would be other uses for them other than hotkeying scvs. For example I wish I didn't have to group my engy bay, armorer, and ghost academy all together. I often have a split drop going so I wish I could have 6 + 7 for late game drops. If it was possible, I'd like to have 4 army hotkeys so I could split my main army in two to do more multi pronged attacks. I could definitely come up with so many more useful uses for a hotkey than to hotkey workers. Many pros use all 10 hotkeys and none of them involve hotkeying all workers which means that they too also believe there are for better things to hotkey. No matter how good you are, there is only a limited number of things you can physically do. I'm sure everybody wishes they could have 10+ hotkeys can make full use of them perfectly, but it's just not possible. You have to prioritize what you are able to do. Just like you have to prioritize what is important to hotkey and what isn't. | ||
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
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Zheryn
Sweden3653 Posts
On August 18 2013 01:42 Whatson wrote: Say I wanted to build a 2 evo wall at my natural, but I'm currently scouting around with lings. Normally, you would screen hotkey back to one of your bases, select a drone, then click on the minimap back to your natural then build. Theoretically, with a hotkey method you would keep your screen at your natural, hit your hotkey for all drones, then build. Basically it saves the time it takes to move your screen back and forth and selecting drones. Ah okay, but it's extremely rare to build something in a place that's out of vision from one of your hatcheries. AAlso, you want to make sure to take a worker that's not mining gas and have delivered the minerals in its mouth already (if you have all selected you can't use "return cargo" just for the drone you're going to build with). | ||
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v_lm
France202 Posts
Many pros use all 10 hotkeys Id say very few zerg pros use 10 hotkeys. If you do a non-hotkey method to inject (F1 F2 etc method) you actually have a lot of hotkeys available. On August 18 2013 00:23 InfCereal wrote: Since we're on the topic... I disagree with hotkeying all your drones, however if you're at 2 base saturation, and you're droning in preparation for a third, hotkey the excess drones as you make them. Then just hit the hotkey and transfer. Crazy good tip, thank you. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
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THE_oldy
Australia97 Posts
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kaluro
Netherlands760 Posts
On August 18 2013 13:24 KingofGods wrote: 1 - drops early, air later, scout 2 - drops early, main army later 3 - ghosts, tanks, secondary army 4 - production 5 - ccs 6 - later drops, ovie clearing viking, scouting reaper if it still lives 7 - engy bay, armory, ghost academy 8,9,0 - keys too far away to reach comfortably without totally messing up my hand positioning which screws everything up. If I could reach 8,9, and 0 properly you can believe there would be other uses for them other than hotkeying scvs. For example I wish I didn't have to group my engy bay, armorer, and ghost academy all together. I often have a split drop going so I wish I could have 6 + 7 for late game drops. If it was possible, I'd like to have 4 army hotkeys so I could split my main army in two to do more multi pronged attacks. I could definitely come up with so many more useful uses for a hotkey than to hotkey workers. Many pros use all 10 hotkeys and none of them involve hotkeying all workers which means that they too also believe there are for better things to hotkey. No matter how good you are, there is only a limited number of things you can physically do. I'm sure everybody wishes they could have 10+ hotkeys can make full use of them perfectly, but it's just not possible. You have to prioritize what you are able to do. Just like you have to prioritize what is important to hotkey and what isn't. You can rebind 8 to "~" for example and you can rebind 9 and 0 to letters, too. Also this is about a drone hotkey thread, and oyu show up with terran hotkeys?!  Zergs have - main army - secundary army - spellcaster army - queens - hatcheries - some hotkey upgrade buildings that's it. A lot of zergs only use 2 hotkey armies, as well. We don't have to seperately hotkey different facilities etc. your CC+ Facilities, is our hatcheries in one. | ||
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RyLai
United States477 Posts
1) Screen Hotkey 2) Box grab Drone(s) 3) B/V->Structure 4) Click location 5) Repeat 3-4 as necessary Now, with your method 1) Screen Hotkey 2) Drone Hotkey 3) B/V->Structure 4) Click location 5) Repeat 3-4 as necessary You gain slightly greater efficiency with only one step (unless you're on 1 base, in which case, double tap the Drone Hotkey, which is still the same number of actions, just easier to chain actions) while putting yourself through unnecessary headaches. The only real area it saves time is when you want to build an expansion. Normal 1) Screen Hotkey 2) Box/Click Drone(s) 3) Click minimap to expansion (or Screen Hotkey if it's already set up, like 2nd-4th base) 4) B->H 5) Click Hotkeyed Drones Method 1) Drone Hotkey 2) Click minimap to expansion (or Screen Hotkey if it's already set up, like 2nd-4th base) 3) B->H 5) Click To constantly (and correctly) update the hotkey is beyond annoying. A misclick will cost you heavily. The updating itself burns more time than the time you gain by using the hotkey. There is no valid reason so far to do this, and nothing but potential/guaranteed negatives. Anyone who thinks this is a good idea has mechanics so godlike, it puts computers to shame, or more likely has neglected the use of screen hotkeys. Again, the only real gain is the removal of the inefficient box/select action to create a new expansion, but the time gained is essentially lost when you go to hotkey a Drone to do that, so the net gain will always be 0 or negative. | ||
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KingofGods
Canada1218 Posts
Even with my ~60 zerg games I could easily come up with 10 uses for hotkeys. The numbers are just me counting off the hotkeys, not the actual hotkeys I would use 1- all hatches 2 - injecting queens 3 - creep tumour queens 4 - evo chambers + production facilities (spire, spawning pool, roach warren, hydra den, ultra den, etc) (people claim that you don't need to hotkey these but if I physically could I would just for ease of upgrades. How often have you played a game and was like, "crap, where's did I build x building?). It is important to know where it is and get easy access to it for upgrades and in the case of spire, morphing to greater spire 5 - all overlords (so I can quickly pull them back if they are getting hunted) 6, 7, 8 (first 3 scouting overlords) 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, etc. for hatcheries. (Many pros, especially old broodwar pros do this). If I had the apm to pull this off I would so I know exactly which unit(s) are coming out of which larva Now we haven't even begun to talk about armies. 1 - mutalisks + possibly corruptors (ideally they should be on different hotkeys because they have different speeds and uses) 2 - ling / ultra 3 - bane 4 - defensive pack of ling / bane 5 - swarm hosts 6 - hydra / roach 7 - overseers 8 - infestors 9 - vipers 10 - counter attacking pack of ling / bane That's 23 hotkeys that I just came up with off the top of my head. I could come up with more but I think that's good. And honestly like production facilities ideally you would want 1 hotkey for each production facility. Ideally you'd want to be able to hotkey each inject queen on a separate hotkey. Now even if Blizzard gave us the ability to use 20 hotkeys, I wouldn't use this setup because I don't have the apm to handle it. But there are people with far more apm than me that probably do wish they have more than 10 hotkeys. Like I said, it's all about prioritizing what you can do under the limitations (apm, 10 hotkeys, ability to memorize what goes on what hotkey). Hotkeying all drones is just not high on that priority list for me. | ||
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v_lm
France202 Posts
Hotkeys = 1 unit type / 1 army comp AND 1 TIMING. @Kingofgods : I feel like hotkeying building ( upgrading purpose) is just as useful as hotkeying drones. (with no risk of misclick though). On the "bind drone to hotkey to build things" thesis, I disagree but its good at the beginning of the game to bind ur hatch drone / your pool drone so you can build them with ease while scouting for example (or even while doing nothing else, its just more comfortable) | ||
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Whatson
United States5356 Posts
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AwM
United States80 Posts
On August 19 2013 08:08 KingofGods wrote: I don't buy the "zerg don't need as many hotkeys argument". If you can't think of anything to hotkey, I'm afraid that means you aren't very creative. Even with my ~60 zerg games I could easily come up with 10 uses for hotkeys. The numbers are just me counting off the hotkeys, not the actual hotkeys I would use 1- all hatches 2 - injecting queens 3 - creep tumour queens 4 - evo chambers + production facilities (spire, spawning pool, roach warren, hydra den, ultra den, etc) (people claim that you don't need to hotkey these but if I physically could I would just for ease of upgrades. How often have you played a game and was like, "crap, where's did I build x building?). It is important to know where it is and get easy access to it for upgrades and in the case of spire, morphing to greater spire 5 - all overlords (so I can quickly pull them back if they are getting hunted) 6, 7, 8 (first 3 scouting overlords) 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, etc. for hatcheries. (Many pros, especially old broodwar pros do this). If I had the apm to pull this off I would so I know exactly which unit(s) are coming out of which larva Now we haven't even begun to talk about armies. 1 - mutalisks + possibly corruptors (ideally they should be on different hotkeys because they have different speeds and uses) 2 - ling / ultra 3 - bane 4 - defensive pack of ling / bane 5 - swarm hosts 6 - hydra / roach 7 - overseers 8 - infestors 9 - vipers 10 - counter attacking pack of ling / bane That's 23 hotkeys that I just came up with off the top of my head. I could come up with more but I think that's good. And honestly like production facilities ideally you would want 1 hotkey for each production facility. Ideally you'd want to be able to hotkey each inject queen on a separate hotkey. Now even if Blizzard gave us the ability to use 20 hotkeys, I wouldn't use this setup because I don't have the apm to handle it. But there are people with far more apm than me that probably do wish they have more than 10 hotkeys. Like I said, it's all about prioritizing what you can do under the limitations (apm, 10 hotkeys, ability to memorize what goes on what hotkey). Hotkeying all drones is just not high on that priority list for me. The real problem with this is it's something you COULD do, but it's not something you really want to do. For Zerg, you really want your hotkeys to be a varient of: 1- Scouting early, army late 2- Casters/Banes/etc. all depends on army comp 3- All queens. You don't need a second hotkey for creep queens. 4- All Hatch 5- Evo Chambers and spires(if you get them). You wouldn't want to add things like roach warren or hydra den here because you might tab through what you need and waste more time. Plus, if you don't know where you put your building and use camera keys for your bases to navigate quickly that's your problem. 6-I use it sometimes for Muta's if I got for harassment and want them easily accessible on their own. 7-0 almost never get used. I have 0 remapped to ` in case I ever am in a situation where I need to quickly get a specific unit for a specific situation. | ||
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KingofGods
Canada1218 Posts
Like I said, ideally every single building would be on it's own hotkey so there would be no tabbing hit 1, upgrade melee and armour hit 2, upgrade flyer attack hit 3, upgrade ultra plating hit 4, upgrade adrenal glands This IS something I'd want to do if I had the hotkeys and the apm for. The entire purpose of using hotkeys is to make your life easier and allow you to accomplish tasks quicker. If you were physically able to, why wouldn't you? The ONLY reason you would not use a hotkey for a particular task is because there just aren't enough hotkeys to use. It will ALWAYS be faster to use hotkeys to do things than manually do it with mouse. It's like saying, "why would I use hotkeys when I can just click on the command card?" | ||
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SerADeadzerg
Canada48 Posts
People have already mentioned most of the reasons it is bad. The fact that every time a new drone is made it is needed to be added to the hotkey group is such a huge undertaking that it instantly makes this a bad idea. | ||
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AwM
United States80 Posts
On August 20 2013 03:44 KingofGods wrote: hitting camera hotkey, mousing over to evo chamber, clicking on evo chamber (either twice for 2 evo chambers, box selecting, or control clicking), selecting upgrades is easier than hitting evo chamber hotkey, hitting ugprades? Like I said, ideally every single building would be on it's own hotkey so there would be no tabbing hit 1, upgrade melee and armour hit 2, upgrade flyer attack hit 3, upgrade ultra plating hit 4, upgrade adrenal glands This IS something I'd want to do if I had the hotkeys and the apm for. The entire purpose of using hotkeys is to make your life easier and allow you to accomplish tasks quicker. If you were physically able to, why wouldn't you? The ONLY reason you would not use a hotkey for a particular task is because there just aren't enough hotkeys to use. It will ALWAYS be faster to use hotkeys to do things than manually do it with mouse. It's like saying, "why would I use hotkeys when I can just click on the command card?" Read my hotkey 5. I have evo chambers and spires on it. It's things like roach warren and hydra den that shouldn't be on that hotkey. I just don't see a reason to fill hotkeys with buldings that you will use once or twice max just so you don't have open hot keys. | ||
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KingofGods
Canada1218 Posts
Even watching streams of extremely good players, pros even, they still click on the command card for certain upgrades. It's not because it's faster or better to do it, they just can't be bothered to learn the upgrade hotkey. It may or may not be them being lazy, but there are just so many things to do and memorize in SC2 that having one less thing to memorize isn't so bad. In this case it's a 2nd limitation I mentioned, your own memory capacity. For them memorizing a for attack (some crazy crazy people use t) takes priority over memorizing the hotkey for overlord drops. In it's most basic form, SC2 is about prioritizing things. For example if you prioritize not getting supply blocked over everything else, you can literally just sit in your base doing nothing but make supply depots all game long. Guaranteed you will never be supply blocked. Well building workers is pretty important too, so let's build workers too. Luckily we can build SCVs and supply depots at time same time (not the same instance, but they can be being produced at the same time). Ok, we are doing pretty good as long as the need to build a supply depot and worker does not overlap (which it often does). So what happens when they do overlap? What do you prioritize, making a worker or making a supply depot? Even with zerg that can build overlords and drones almost simultaneously, they still have to decide to click v first or d. What if you only have 1 larvae left, what do you build? We can already see how our fingers and mind are working even just doing these 2 basic tasks like building supply and workers. Now factor in the need to control an army, the need to make units, the need to manage your econ, etc. and you can see the importance of priority. | ||
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Kal_rA
United States2925 Posts
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Defenestrator
400 Posts
On August 18 2013 00:23 InfCereal wrote: Since we're on the topic... I disagree with hotkeying all your drones, however if you're at 2 base saturation, and you're droning in preparation for a third, hotkey the excess drones as you make them. Then just hit the hotkey and transfer. I don't really see the point of this; if you're trying to saturate a 3rd, you can just build drones and then right-click the eggs on a mineral patch at your 3rd, in which case they'll start mining at the 3rd as soon as they hatch. You rarely want to overbuild drones for a 3rd when on 2-base saturation since the main reasons you'd be on 2base is if you're doing a timing attack, in which case you're building units while possibly taking a 3rd behind it (and then droning the 3rd) or you're prepping to defend against an allin - once again, you'd be building units, not drones. However, to each their own. | ||
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hearters
Singapore224 Posts
On August 20 2013 05:06 Kal_rA wrote: I'm sure BitByBit would like this strat. It's good for 12 drone rushing vs protoss too | ||
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Hollandrock
United Kingdom158 Posts
With zerg as soon as you've upgraded your lair, the evo chambers appear between the lair and the hatcheries. (Could still be quite useful, though hatcheries would require a double tab. | ||
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v_lm
France202 Posts
Hotkeying say, roach warren, is useless, u just have to do *click on roach warren *hit your roach speed hotkey Why would you do *click on roach warren *shift + new roach warren hotkey *later : hit roach warren hotkey *hit roach speed hotkey. | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
On August 21 2013 18:27 v_lm wrote: Hotkeying evo and spire... OK. Hotkeying say, roach warren, is useless, u just have to do *click on roach warren *hit your roach speed hotkey Why would you do *click on roach warren *shift + new roach warren hotkey *later : hit roach warren hotkey *hit roach speed hotkey. You can hotkey it at a time where you have nothing better to do. You can start the upgrade without moving your screen away from your army. You can check when the upgrade is done without having to move your screen with a single press of a button. | ||
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v_lm
France202 Posts
doesnt happen often :=( "You can start the upgrade without moving your screen away from your army. You can check when the upgrade is done without having to move your screen with a single press of a button." you come back to your main base really often anyway. So why would you hit a new button ? Plus its obvious when roach speed is done. Last thing about checking timings : if your build is very refined, you dont have to. Hotkeying hydra den is OK I guess because u have to chain 2 upgrades. (just like evo chamber or spire) Concerning ROach warren ultra den, inf. pit im more sceptical. | ||
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Inimic
Canada153 Posts
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