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[G] PvT Kracen's 4 Oracles

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Kracen
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom59 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-17 07:56:38
July 16 2013 21:00 GMT
#1
Greetings fellow Protoss players and other interested readers.
I am here today to hopefully convince you that in PvT the Oracle isn't just a SCV killing glass cannon to be made and thrown away once Turrets are in place.

Lets start by stating that I am a Masters level Protoss player on the EU server, around 1.2k points, don't let that discourage you about my credibility though as I am returning from a long SC2 break and am yet to climb back up to my normal top 8 spot.

How it all began
I like many Protoss players discovered early on that Oracles are pretty damn good against Marines and SCVs to the point in which they can be rushed out safely and do significant damage. At first I did what we all likely did, killed everything we could and followed up with an all in to take advantage of their pain and suffering with some Voidrays mixed in; But that got boring, I don't like to all in, I also don't like throwing away expensive units.

So I started to play around with building not just 1 Oracle, but 3-4 (normally 4 but we'll get into that later). As we also all discovered, when an Oracle is on the field, Terran players do not like leaving their base until it can be deflected entirely, so how do you think they feel about 3-4 of them roaming around? Normally, fairly damn terrified, and with good reason.

This was my first experimentation with it;
http://drop.sc/349207
As you can see its very poor macro and poorly executed but it was my building point that I developed it from being an all in, seeing its true potential to then find its long term use.

I used to be one of the possibly few Protoss players who simply could not do PvT, even in WoL, I just could not get my head round it and would always struggle, but thanks to this build it has become by far my strongest match up.

What your Oracles are doing
+ Show Spoiler +
First off, this is best done with a Proxied Stargate. It doesn't have to be, but it keeps it safe from being scouted by a Reaper. Don't just proxy this in the most efficient places, they're too obvious and are checked almost every time, bring that Proxy back a bit, perhaps nearer to your 4th, somewhere that if scouted, your Stalkers can get over there to stop that Pylon going down. However the main thing is: keep it hidden- make sure you have a straight line to their Main. (Check replays at the end for a better idea of where to place the proxy, or use what you prefer).

I am starting with this instead of the build order for one reason, it is important to know why, before you know how.

Now. The aim of this build is to keep Terran in their base for as long as humanly possible.
To do this you are flying your Oracles around getting them into every spot possible that they can do damage, (Remember to keep an eye out for those Widow Mine shadows though, they one shot Oracles and we don't want this to happen even once if avoidable)

Lets first discuss what we're doing with our Oracles before we look at the population build order.

Your first Oracle bee-lines straight for their mineral line and does whatever damage it possibly can killing as many SCVs as possible. Bring her back out and your second Oracle should meet up with her, fly her in see what else you can do but be careful, they're on alert, however they may be relaxed as your energy should be spent so are not expecting a second in which you can kill more SCVs or even stray Marines (Do not engage a pack of more than 5 Marines), bring her out, your third should now be here. By this point, unless your opponent is completely in shambles, you shouldn't be able to get into any more mineral lines, you can pick off SCVs on the gas if you're feeling up for it and there is no Widow Mine in place of course, do this until your 4th Oracle turns up, this is where the true fun begins.
You now have 4 Oracles, best thing to do... Fly right up to that tech lab which is researching Stimpack, if its undefended, focus it, kill it, give yourself 3 more minutes of breathing room, do this more than once if possible, but do not needlessly throw your Oracles away. That reactor on the Starport/Barracks which is a bit under defended, better focus that down to. You are literally just putting out damage wherever you can whenever you can.

But wait, there is more, Oracles have more than just an attack, they also have my favourite ability of all, Revelation, this handy little spell as we are all aware reveals their units location for one whole minute, you have 4 Oracles, you have energy to spare, so why not keep this active at all times, just fly one in safely pop it down and fly off. This, in my opinion is far superior than Observers which, against good Terrans get spotted and scanned very quickly. With this constant vision of the Terrans units and Medivacs, how will they ever be able to move out or drop you without you knowing about it instantly? simple answer is, they cannot. No more pesky drops catching you off guard, no more looking away for a second to warp in and being over run, you have complete vision of their army and there is nothing they can do about it.
What does this mean then? Be greedy, be as greedy as you've always wanted to be. You killed their almost completed Stimpack, which had to be restarted, you've damaged their economy, you've got complete constant vision of their army, what more could you possibly want in a PvT except the screams of Ghosts as they're killed, which is sure to come later in the match anyway.


The Build Order
+ Show Spoiler +
You can't win a PvT with Oracles alone, unless they rage quit at the sight of them (this can happen so I don't rule it out).

Remember, this build order is purely if they're not going 1 base all in or cheesing, at which point you react accordingly.
You may find your own way of doing this, perhaps a better way, this however, is how I do it and it works well enough for me. ChronoBoosted Probes will be mentioned, if not it is just assumed you're building them.
9 Pylon,
10-11 Probe ChronoBoosted,
11 Scout, (if you're comfortable not scouting like myself, don't do this, however do scout if you're not (For those who do scout, get in and get out and go straight to the Proxy location once you've scouted their gas))
12-14 Probe ChronoBoosted,
13 Gate,
15 Double Gas (2 in each),
16 Pylon, Send out Probe to Proxy location if you did not scout at 11
17 Core, (1 more in each gas to fill them)
18-19 Probe ChronoBoosted,
When Core is done Stalker, ChronoBoost it (For the Reaper that is most likely coming)
Proxy Pylon before MSC, after Stalker.
MSC,
Stargate down asap. Bring Probe home, or if you have not scouted at all yet, loop him round to a normal scouting path and check their natural.
Second Stalker, asap, ChronoBoosted,
4th Pylon,
First Oracle should be started asap,
Expand,
Second Oracle as soon as first finishes,
Keep building Oracles until you have 4 of them,
Get two more Gates and your Robotics and start going to Colossus and your upgrades,
3rd 4th Gas,
Once you've kept them busy long enough to tech up and deal damage with the Oracles you can safely take your third, whilst teching to HTs.


What you're looking for and how to react.
+ Show Spoiler +
Much like with Phoenix's in PvP and PvZ, your Oracles will scout everything that is happening. What they see, dictates how you respond, so lets go over the most important things you're looking for.

1. Most importantly, more than anything, is that Widow Mine Shadow, one misclick, one mistake, you lose an Oracle for nothing, keep your Oracles alive, the Mine stays in the Terran base and not in a Medivac flying to your base. (A single Oracle will kill a Widow Mine before it burrows if you start hitting it before it starts burrowing. Do not try it if you're unsure if you'll get it in time, its not worth the risk.)

2. Barracks, or Factory? Do they have more Barracks? Add on 2 Gates before Robo. Do they have a Factory? Robo, before 2 Gates. (This is to ensure you have an Observer should they get passed with a Widow Mine in a Medivac) Plus, with their lower Bio production, you can get to Colossus quicker without concern of having too few ground units.

3. If they have their Factory up you may want to consider only building 3 Oracles and getting a Robo up faster if you're nervous about a Widow Mine drop.

4. 3rd CC being build, delay it if possible, Prepare for your own 3rd.

5. Missile Turrets at main and natural. They are moving out to your main with an attack force. Oracles come home, Warp in Zealots and Stalkers, MSC Nexus Cannon, when attack commences, hit at front with army, Oracle beams come from behind, Time Warp to make sure no one survives.
(This should come at a time in which you've got your Robo and 3 Gates, anything before can be cleaned up with a couple Stalkers and MSC Nexus Cannon, if that is the case, use this opportunity to snipe some Techlabs or Reactors)

6. Are they going mech? Colossus, Immortals, you've got that Stargate still alive as its well hidden, throw in some Voidrays.

7. Look at their Marine count, Oracles can handle Marines in low numbers, do not risk an Oracle to kill a few Marines, you want them alive.

8. If you can't reveal the whole army, reveal something important, Ghosts, Medivacs, Vikings.

EDIT: 9. Do not show your hand with the snipe on the Tech lab until you can kill it out right, if you have to pull back and they repair it, it'll be very unlikely you'll get another shot at this.


Strengths and Weaknesses
+ Show Spoiler +
Strengths;
This build more than anything, buys you time, it keeps the Terran busy and in their base. A Terran wants to keep you busy, this build turns it around and gives the power back in your hands.

Constant harassment, one thing Protoss lacked was harassment in PvT that wasn't just throw away units, with these Oracles you can keep harassing all game long.

Constant vision, thanks to revelation, no Terran unit goes anywhere without you having vision of it.

Defend pressures, Oracles with Gateway unit support can take down small numbers of units with ease.

Weaknesses;
The weaknesses in my experience come entirely from player fault rather than build fault, so these can be crossed off if you're confident in your ability.

You're playing like a Zerg does, harassment where possible, full focus on eco whilst teching, reacting to what you see and building units when needed, so if you don't see it coming, and it does end up catching you off guard, you may not have enough to defend.

Expensive, A Stargate and 4 Oracles are not cheap, they are pretty damn expensive, they require a lot of investment.

Micro intensive, and when I say Micro intensive, I mean it, these Oracles should never stop moving, they need to be baby sat all game, if not looked after they can be killed fairly quickly, so Macro will suffer at times as you're focusing on them too much. Players who have superb Macro whilst using units like this, will not have this issue.

Unspotted Widow Mines, Widow Mines one shot Oracles, you miss them, you're gonna be in trouble. Which is one reason you cannot take your eyes off of them.


Replays
+ Show Spoiler +

http://drop.sc/349214
http://drop.sc/349213
http://drop.sc/349210
http://drop.sc/349209
http://drop.sc/349208
http://drop.sc/349206
http://drop.sc/349204
http://drop.sc/349203
+
Kray-sen
SSJTribe
Profile Joined August 2012
United States18 Posts
July 16 2013 22:11 GMT
#2
This looks like an interesting and innovative build. And I'm in sore need of PvT help (around 40% right now)
Cheers
Rockafella
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom291 Posts
July 16 2013 22:42 GMT
#3
Really interesting build and looks super strong, but I'm most entertained by the game against the Barcode, as obnoxious as he was he shut this down really well, and I'm not 100% convinced he was cheating.
Val_
Profile Joined May 2010
Ukraine156 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-17 08:29:50
July 17 2013 08:23 GMT
#4
Try to analyze another thing:

4 oracles -> 2 void rays -> stalkers from 3 gates and allin
it is good to allin with such opening

or at least 4 oracles -> mass army -> hold terran natural and be greed

Pretty standard build in top ML that is not a lot better then standard play .. you are throwing away 600 (750) gas for almost nothing
Terran should just build 5 rax ( i mean rax-cc-+2rax+2rax) without factory, 1/0, take some scvs and kill you

5 rax are terrible vs standard play because of sentry ramp block, but vs oracles it is a hard counter i think

But sometimes you can use it ofc, it works pretty randomly
AKA [7x]Val / GML Terran EU
Kracen
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom59 Posts
July 17 2013 08:32 GMT
#5
On July 17 2013 17:23 Val_ wrote:
Try to analyze another thing:

4 oracles -> 2 void rays -> stalkers from 3 gates and allin
much more better to allin with such opening

Pretty standard build in top ML that is not a lot better then standard play .. you are throwing away 600 (750) gas for almost nothing
Terran should just build 5 rax ( i mean rax-cc-+2rax+2rax) without factory, 1/0, take some scvs and kill you

5 rax are terrible vs standard play because of sentry ramp block, but vs oracles it is a hard counter i think

But sometimes you can use it ofc, it works pretty randomly

The gas is in no way going to nothing, you are using the gas to kill workers, upgrades like stimpack, stray Marines, small packs of Marines and constant vision of their army. Were the build to have no value and to do absolutely nothing worth while, why would I do or and even more so, why would I even consider posting about it if I wasn't convinced in its use.
Secondly, 5 Rax no Factory would be pretty damn good vs this... were they able to know I was doing this before they started their Factory, which more often than not is almost never the case, by the time I have 3-4 Oracles, Factory has finished and at the least is currently building.
But as always someone managing to blindly counter your build will almost always be successful, but fortunately, it is rarely the case.
Kray-sen
Val_
Profile Joined May 2010
Ukraine156 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-17 08:37:01
July 17 2013 08:36 GMT
#6
<del>
AKA [7x]Val / GML Terran EU
Kvassten
Profile Joined May 2012
Sweden159 Posts
July 17 2013 08:59 GMT
#7
This seems annoying to deal with, I hope I don't have to face this

Off topic, what happens if you put revelation on marines and the Terran puts these marines inside a medivac that isn't "revelationed".

Do you see the medivac or not?
BerthaG
Profile Joined December 2012
France74 Posts
July 17 2013 12:08 GMT
#8
I really like the build, will make me work my multitask even if my PvT ratio is my best 70%.
Question : What if the terran get 1 or 2 vickings ? Game over ?
Never surrender
SalvationII
Profile Joined January 2013
Germany25 Posts
July 17 2013 12:56 GMT
#9
On July 17 2013 21:08 BerthaG wrote:
I really like the build, will make me work my multitask even if my PvT ratio is my best 70%.
Question : What if the terran get 1 or 2 vickings ? Game over ?


I asked myself the same question..
But if he commits to 1-2 vikings, his medivacs are pretty hard delayed and also you can crono out 2 phoenixes or maybe start entirely phoenix production after them oracles.
Kracen
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom59 Posts
July 17 2013 16:02 GMT
#10
On July 17 2013 17:59 Kvassten wrote:
This seems annoying to deal with, I hope I don't have to face this

Off topic, what happens if you put revelation on marines and the Terran puts these marines inside a medivac that isn't "revelationed".

Do you see the medivac or not?


Yes, in fact you do, I discovered this the other day, one of the replays shows this.

On July 17 2013 21:08 BerthaG wrote:
I really like the build, will make me work my multitask even if my PvT ratio is my best 70%.
Question : What if the terran get 1 or 2 vickings ? Game over ?


When the build some Vikings it is an issue and a pain to deal with but you are in no way dead. All it means is you're not able to snipe as much tech off, and you have to be more careful with your Oracles, you can build a couple Phoenix's if you truly want to get back in.
Most importantly what this does is delay their Medivacs, and will be less able to build more Vikings later for your Colossus due to their low Medivac count.
Another thing to note, as you're picking off so much they're spending more on Turrets and replacing SCVs, they are going to be using all of their Mules. Meaning they're may not be aware of your Colossus switch and by the time you have 3 Colossus they have only the 1-2 Vikings, however this cannot be guaranteed so don't rely on that, it can just happen vs some Terrans.
Kray-sen
Fig
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1324 Posts
July 17 2013 16:10 GMT
#11
I've been waiting for people to start trying multiple Oracles in PvT! They are so strong against most of the things Terran has early on (SCVs, Marines, Hellions, they even kill Hellbats faster than anything else does.) As stated above they can hold a Terran in their base for far longer than anything else Protoss can do, allowing toss to get a super early third base. But I want to see if they can be taken even further. Can multiple Oracles pose enough of a threat to MMM that you can skip robo tech all together and go straight into Storm? Can Chargelot/Oracle work as an army comp in the early midgame? I'm not sure but I'm gonna try it.
Can't elope with my cantaloupe
Air.SWP
Profile Joined May 2010
United States112 Posts
July 17 2013 16:45 GMT
#12
Sounds fun. I am high platinum and am eager to try this out against a Terran player later tonight.
FLiP491
Profile Joined November 2010
United States124 Posts
July 17 2013 20:38 GMT
#13
1 gate oracle is my go to pvt build, do it all the time.
I'm kind of split on building more than 2 oracles, imo it depends on what your first oracle sees. If your first oracle sees a completed reactor on the rax and eng bay with turrets down, I would stop at 2. It is possible and it happens often with 3 or more oracles that you can kill a turret with oracles without losing one, even in the mineral line, but I don't like relying on something like this. I prefer to focus my 150/150 and apm on getting more ahead in other ways.


Also, I find it's better against say a reaper expand where they don't have critical mass of marines to not engage the weapon with the first oracle if they pull their scvs fast( which they should)


Also, I don't agree with the 11 scout, an 11 gate is stable and (obviously) gets the oracle out much faster. And one stalker is all that's necessary to deflect stuff and all you can afford before your first oracle. When the first oracle hits I like to pressure their front with a stalker or two right before to distract them and/or pull marines away from the oracle.


I don't have much experience with the robo transition as twilight, which is my go to since it allows me to get way ahead in upgrades which goes hand in hand with eco. Another thing is I want the terran to try and drop me since I have hts and I feel confident I can come out ahead even if I don't respond well to the drops. Robo does force vikings which cost gas but ghosts cost gas too and force tech labs.

Hattori_Hanzo
Profile Joined October 2010
Singapore1229 Posts
July 18 2013 08:23 GMT
#14
Awesome!

Abuse revelations, it is massively imba, land them on Vikings or medivacs and you'll effectively be able to counter EVERYTHING the Terran goes for.
Cauterize the area
-BCNPalomino-
Profile Joined May 2012
United States45 Posts
July 18 2013 12:58 GMT
#15
I love the Idea. and will be practicing this alot. Thank you very much for the guide.
Oliveoil Nutmeg
Sated
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
England4983 Posts
July 18 2013 14:18 GMT
#16
--- Nuked ---
Kracen
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom59 Posts
July 18 2013 15:20 GMT
#17
On July 18 2013 23:18 Sated wrote:
You should watch game one of ToD vs. Happy from WCS EU last night. ToD only went up to 3 Oracles, and he got his Stargate/Oracle a lot faster, but the idea was pretty similar.

I had a quick look. The way ToD does it is to rush it for asap Oracles using the 2nd Pylon as the Proxy instead of the 3rd which makes you more vulnerable at home as well were a Proxy of their own coming up.
Were Happy to of scouted ToDs main instead of putting up the Engi bay, Happy would of instantly known Proxy Oracles and would have been in position to deflect and would of had an build his Engi bay much quicker making it do far less damage.
Also, the function of ToDs Proxy Oracles was asap mineral line damage at high risk, just like when a Terran tries to get a very fast Widow Mine in your mineral line, scouted it does barely anything, if not, it does a lot at which point you're miles ahead and just get more ahead.
Kray-sen
Erik.TheRed
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1655 Posts
July 19 2013 05:13 GMT
#18
So I just improvised a version of your build on ladder on NA ladder (master league), sans the proxy stargate (it was whirlwind) but it still worked out really well. I also transitioned into colossus since I figured it would be faster and better at stopping a big frontal attack (I've got vision of his army with revalation so defending drops isn't a big deal). I'll just attach the replay so you can see it for yourself! http://drop.sc/349553
"See you space cowboy"
Kracen
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom59 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-19 07:39:50
July 19 2013 07:39 GMT
#19
On July 19 2013 14:13 Erik.TheRed wrote:
So I just improvised a version of your build on ladder on NA ladder (master league), sans the proxy stargate (it was whirlwind) but it still worked out really well. I also transitioned into colossus since I figured it would be faster and better at stopping a big frontal attack (I've got vision of his army with revalation so defending drops isn't a big deal). I'll just attach the replay so you can see it for yourself! http://drop.sc/349553

I don't know if I'd use it on other maps but certainly a variation for that map simply due to its size.

Half of what the Oracles are doing early on when Proxied and brought out before Expo is keeping Terran contained during that period, by doing them later you leave yourself open to fast drops and Widow Mines. Whereas with the faster proxy, these mines almost never leave their base.
Also due to the design of the map, a Reaper really struggles to get inside so scouting is easily deflected (unless they scan) at which point they have turrets up and you've lost your window to really do much damage at all.
Another thing you miss out on is the opportunity to snipe Tech labs and Reactors as research like Stim are already done by the time you get into a position to focus it safely.

What the proxy 4 Oracles can do is put the Terran on the defensive when they have low tech, low Marine count, and low income making them spend money where they don't want to, when they don't want to. Delaying them puts Terran into a spot where they can build Turrets about and be fine as they'd do this for DTs anyway.

However on a map like Whirlwind, assuming the Terran isn't going for fast Widow Mine drops, it will work fine, but I certainly wouldn't go up to 4 Oracles as most of the energy will never get used, I'd say for your variation get no more than 2 as at that point you 1 shot SCVs and can keep up revelation giving you a faster transition.
Kray-sen
Kracen
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom59 Posts
July 25 2013 12:12 GMT
#20
I am still having good success with this build and it is still my go to strategy on all maps except neo planet s (due to there being no good proxy locations that don't get scouted instantly) and I was wondering, should people want it, would anybody like me to make an instructional video going step by step through the build and my though process. However if everyone feels the build is straight forward enough I will not make it... Just offering though in case someone does want it.
Kray-sen
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